Playing like shitebags and rolling over to rangers

[Sir PH]

2 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

Ross County have beaten Rangers once in their entire history, Motherwell have beaten Rangers once in the last 6 years, Kilmarnock have beaten them once in the last 4 years.

 

So lets not kid ourselves that every team picks up results against them regularly, and we're the exception.

Why only go back four years (when they weren't even in the same league for a season) for Killie's record v Rangers? 

[Chuck Berry]

16 minutes ago, RedStarRiot said:

Our income would certainly be closer to Ross County’s than Rangers and Celtic’s. We might have a higher budget than Motherwell, Killie etc and in the last few seasons we have finished higher than them as we should expect. The financial difference isn’t significant enough though that 9 times out of 10 we beat those teams. We still rarely pay transfer fee’s and our wage bill is dwarfed by the 2 Glasgow clubs. The club is trying to generate more income via initiatives such as the hotel however it will take time to create a financial gap significantly bigger to be a best of the rest on a consistent basis and team these teams on a more regular basis similar to the Old Firm. 
 

Aberdeen and Hibs are also similar sized clubs and we are all looking to achieve that same objective. That sentence will probably wind some folk up on here but that’s the reality. We are a mid sized club in Scotland competing for trophies against 2 teams with massive resources in comparison. 

 

Bang on, but some think third should be ours every single time.

[GinRummy]

1 hour ago, jock _turd said:

 

To be honest the way the team play it is almost impossible to think that third is a shoe in every year. There is not a team in the league that has not given us a really hard time, the difference between SPL teams out with the OF is very small. Yes we have prevailed most times this season but to think that we are going to rock up and get the same outcome is delusional. If we can get a few decent mids and forwards in then perhaps we can do it again next year but then I suppose every team in the league is thinking the same thing 😂

It’s not a shoe in but it should definitely be the target, both last year and this year. Missing your target is failure. 

[kingantti1874]

1 minute ago, Chuck Berry said:

 

I don’t think a minor miscalculation really undermines his point though does it. Unless our success in the 1950’s somehow means we are entitled to success today. 
 

since our period of relative success ended in 1960.  We have won the Scottish cup 3 times.  1998, 2006 and 2012. No league and no league cup’s

 

an absolutely ganting record and something we need to improve on massively.  We certainly have done nothing for 60 years + which means we are entitled to trophies.

[Chuck Berry]

1 minute ago, kingantti1874 said:

I don’t think a minor miscalculation really undermines his point though does it. Unless our success in the 1950’s somehow means we are entitled to success today. 
 

since our period of relative success ended in 1960.  We have won the Scottish cup 3 times.  1998, 2006 and 2012. No league and no league cup’s

 

an absolutely ganting record and something we need to improve on massively.  We certainly have done nothing for 60 years + which means we are entitled to trophies.

 

Nothing to do with miscalculation, he entirely misses my point but I can't be arsed explaining it all again.

[kingantti1874]

1 minute ago, GinRummy said:

It’s not a shoe in but it should definitely be the target, both last year and this year. Missing your target is failure. 

3rd is the target.  When playing against teams with 4 times your budget winning a trophy  is more down to luck.   That’s the reality. Unless we can’t triple our budget putting us on a reasonably different level winning is the hope not a target against which anyone is measure.  That’s the reality.  

[Gordon Ramsay]

17 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

10 trophies in 70 years. 

 

Winning the first division/championship is not an achievement. That's for the dundee uniteds of this world, running on the pitch like they've won the Scottish cup.

 

Having calculated our honours in the 50s/60s I realise you aren't talking about winning the first division/championship 🤣🤣

 

Dundee utd pitch invasion at the weekend still embarrassing but that's for another thread.

Edited April 23 by Gordon Ramsay

[Shooter McGavin]

9 minutes ago, Sir PH said:

Why only go back four years (when they weren't even in the same league for a season) for Killie's record v Rangers? 

Sound, Kilmarnock have beaten them 6 times in the last 10 years, we’ve beaten them 6 times in the last 10 years too.

 

So again, this idea that we’re the exception is proven to be utter nonsense.

[Pasquale for King]

25 minutes ago, RedStarRiot said:

Our income would certainly be closer to Ross County’s than Rangers and Celtic’s. We might have a higher budget than Motherwell, Killie etc and in the last few seasons we have finished higher than them as we should expect. The financial difference isn’t significant enough though that 9 times out of 10 we beat those teams. We still rarely pay transfer fee’s and our wage bill is dwarfed by the 2 Glasgow clubs. The club is trying to generate more income via initiatives such as the hotel however it will take time to create a financial gap significantly bigger to be a best of the rest on a consistent basis and team these teams on a more regular basis similar to the Old Firm. 
 

Aberdeen and Hibs are also similar sized clubs and we are all looking to achieve that same objective. That sentence will probably wind some folk up on here but that’s the reality. We are a mid sized club in Scotland competing for trophies against 2 teams with massive resources in comparison. 

RC turnover £3.4m, ours £21m, Rangers £84m, Celtic £120m. 
So ours is 6 times RCs, they have beaten Rangers,as have Motherwell and Kilmarnock, we have beaten Celtic twice.
No matter the financial gulf any team can beat another, especially when one is at a low ebb as Rangers were on Sunday. 
We are allowed to ask our team and management to make a better attempt at beating Rangers, having lost 5 times to them now in our apparently “great” season. 

[kingantti1874]

16 minutes ago, Luckies1874 said:

Hearts fans are “entitled” has to be one of the dumbest takes I’ve ever heard. It’s completely ridiculous. We’ve won 3 trophies in nigh on 70 years 

 

I get what you are saying, the ridiculous reaction of some on here suggests that they do “expect” and thus do absolutely come across as entitled.  
 

by all means everyone of us was massively disappointed, but some of the points of view, we should just “expect” to have beaten them, our disgraceful consistent  lying down !? The fact that we have too many huns who wanted us to lose anyway, the way that every single player and the coaching staff have been torn to bits, how they aren’t good not good enough, this player and that player should never have had a contract yada yada .  
 

frankly, ****ing embarrassing ramblings of children.  But all means have a view on the game, some had good games, some had bad but make it constructive and put  it in context.  
 

 

[kingantti1874]

10 minutes ago, Chuck Berry said:

 

Nothing to do with miscalculation, he entirely misses my point but I can't be arsed explaining it all again.

I was actually agreeing with you.  It the smiley threw me off

[Pasquale for King]

7 minutes ago, Gordon Ramsay said:

 

Winning the first division/championship is not an achievement. That's for the dundee uniteds of this world, running on the pitch like they've won the Scottish cup.

 

Having calculated our honours in the 50s/60s I realise you aren't talking about winning the first division/championship 🤣🤣

 

Dundee utd pitch invasion at the weekend still embarrassing but that's for another thread.

Really, they invaded the pitch 😆🤪.

[davemclaren]

11 minutes ago, Gordon Ramsay said:

 

Winning the first division/championship is not an achievement. That's for the dundee uniteds of this world, running on the pitch like they've won the Scottish cup.

 

Having calculated our honours in the 50s/60s I realise you aren't talking about winning the first division/championship 🤣🤣

 

Dundee utd pitch invasion at the weekend still embarrassing but that's for another thread.

😄

[Bazzas right boot]

48 minutes ago, boag1874 said:

That isn't true though. A quick look on google will tell you Celtic have been in the Europa loads. This season is actually the only one that Celtic have been playing in the competition above Rangers since their comedy years of death, rebirth, McCoist, losing a league title to us & failing to get promoted, Warburton, Caxinha & Murty, failing to get back to top 2 etc.

 

Last season they were both CL, both horrendous & Rangers got absolutely murdered as the whipping boys in a group with Liverpool, Napoli & Ajax. Fair enough, their level got exposed.

 

The season before Rangers reached the Europa final & took it to pens. That same season Celtic also failed to qualify for the Champions league groups, finished 3rd in their Europa league group despite scoring 13 goals (they conceded 15) to drop down a competition & then convincingly lost their Conference league knockout tie to Bodo.

 

The season before that they also both were in the Europa, Celtic finished rock bottom of their group while Rangers topped theirs, reaching the r16 by beating Antwerp.

 

The season before that again they were both in the Europa & both did really well in the groups (this is the season that will be wiped from the coefficient next year which will drop our ranking significantly). Celtic went out in the first knockout round against Copenhagen, Rangers beat Braga to reach the r16.

 

The season before that was Gerrard's first season & the first European group for the new Rangers, again they were both Europa, that's the last time Celtic advanced & Rangers didn't. Celtic again went out in the first knockout round.

 

Rangers quite clearly have a better resume than Celtic over the last 5 seasons making it further than them almost every year and that's been at the same level as Celtic the vast majority of the time. The Europa IS the Old Firms level, neither of them have anything to shout about in the CL.

 

I watch them both in Europe basically every time they play because I want to see how they do with their results having an indirect impact on us. The majority of the time you watch Celtic and they play good football but can be bullied and have a bit of a soft underbelly, Rangers despite usually having worse players are a more physical side who aren't as easily bullied. Rangers play at their best on the counter, get it forward quickly, get players into the box for crosses and try to make opposition players panic, that suits Europe. Celtic often try to play the same way they do against diddy Scottish teams and it doesn't work at that level.

 

All fair, especially celtic trying to play the same way.

 

Rangers run to the final was excellent,  but greatly Inflates their general performance and is used to highlight how much better they are.

 

In reality, they are only slightly better in the seasons when celtic are in the lower format and when celtic are in the ucl it's not a fair comparison.

 

Could be argued rangers gain momentum and confidence from playing in the lower forms as well, where as celtic must have some tyoe of ptsd when it comes to  Europe giving the ucl experiences.

 

Rangers are slightly better, I agree but that is inflated with their excellent run to the final and the fact they ate generally always starting in the lower level tournaments.

 

I don't think either are particularly good but find their level in the lower formats with Rangers excellent run to the final boosting all of Scotland. 

 

I'd guess if celtic were always at the europa stage, every season they'd do better than they do atm, which is taking routine batterings in the ucl., and if rangers where in the ucl theyd be the wons getting knocked about more. Maybe not tho.

 

 

 

 

 

[Sir PH]

10 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

Sound, Kilmarnock have beaten them 6 times in the last 10 years, we’ve beaten them 6 times in the last 10 years too.

 

So again, this idea that we’re the exception is proven to be utter nonsense.

Hearts have taken 20 points from Rangers and Kilmarnock have taken 22 points from them, since 2014. 

[Sir PH]

4 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

All fair, especially celtic trying to play the same way.

 

Rangers run to the final was excellent,  but greatly Inflates their general performance and is used to highlight how much better they are.

 

In reality, they are only slightly better in the seasons when celtic are in the lower format and when celtic are in the ucl it's not a fair comparison.

 

Could be argued rangers gain momentum and confidence from playing in the lower forms as well, where as celtic must have some tyoe of ptsd when it comes to  Europe giving the ucl experiences.

 

Rangers are slightly better, I agree but that is inflated with their excellent run to the final and the fact they ate generally always starting in the lower level tournaments.

 

I don't think either are particularly good but find their level in the lower formats with Rangers excellent run to the final boosting all of Scotland. 

 

I'd guess if celtic were always at the europa stage, every season they'd do better than they do atm, which is taking routine batterings in the ucl., and if rangers where in the ucl theyd be the wons getting knocked about more. Maybe not tho.

 

 

 

 

 

Celtic often end up in the EL, and get routinely pumped. You must be the only person I know that is trying to equate Celtic's European performances with Rangers'. 

[Shooter McGavin]

2 minutes ago, Sir PH said:

Hearts have taken 20 points from Rangers and Kilmarnock have taken 22 points from them, since 2014. 

Ah sound, so now you’ve just decided cup games don’t count.

 

Good argument, mate 👍🏻

[Sir PH]

1 minute ago, Shooter McGavin said:

Ah sound, so now you’ve just decided cup games don’t count.

 

Good argument, mate 👍🏻

Count them if you like. Kilmarnock are half the size of Hearts and have a better league record against Rangers than Hearts. 

[CaptainShanks]

5 minutes ago, Sir PH said:

Hearts have taken 20 points from Rangers and Kilmarnock have taken 22 points from them, since 2014. 

I wonder how much of that is down to the astro pitch. It is a massive leveller compared with Tynie which has been like a bowling green for most of that time. 

[Fozzyonthefence]

30 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

Ross County have beaten Rangers once in their entire history, Motherwell have beaten Rangers once in the last 6 years, Kilmarnock have beaten them once in the last 4 years.

 

So lets not kid ourselves that every team picks up results against them regularly, and we're the exception.

We haven’t beaten them at all in 4 years though.   14 games ffs!  It’s pathetic.  Even Aberdeen have taken 4 points from them this season and beat them at the end of last season.  

[Luckies1874]

42 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

I get what you are saying, the ridiculous reaction of some on here suggests that they do “expect” and thus do absolutely come across as entitled.  
 

by all means everyone of us was massively disappointed, but some of the points of view, we should just “expect” to have beaten them, our disgraceful consistent  lying down !? The fact that we have too many huns who wanted us to lose anyway, the way that every single player and the coaching staff have been torn to bits, how they aren’t good not good enough, this player and that player should never have had a contract yada yada .  
 

frankly, ****ing embarrassing ramblings of children.  But all means have a view on the game, some had good games, some had bad but make it constructive and put  it in context.  
 

 

I’ve not seen anyone saying that we should expect to beat Rangers but if they have then they are morons. I had zero expectation, as I said on here pre match, that we would win, as generally Hearts never win big matches. Given I’ve been watching us for more than 40 years now I traveled with little hope but regardless and more importantly to enjoy the occasion with family. The defeat wasn’t in anyway a surprise and it’s incredible anyone thought we’d win.
 

There has as usual been views across the spectrum about the performance which for me was underwhelming and lacklustre. I do not believe we were terrible but equally it was a disappointing effort, again, littered with poor mistakes, a total lack of cutting edge and 2 self inflicted Rangers goals. It wasn’t as bad as some recent matches against the same opposition, though given how appalling they were, that wasn’t saying an awful lot! 
 

The context for me is that we are close to achieving the most important thing this season; 3rd place and the guarantee of group game European football and the relative riches that brings. There has been some progress in terms of results this season though I’m less thrilled than some at the actual state of the team which I think is still miles away from where we should be aiming. I don’t believe at all the hyperbole, the other end of the spectrum you are talking about, that it’s been “a fantastic season”. That’s complete nonsense. Good performances have been few and far between but our mentality and ability to eek out some wins has been positive. What the team has done is start to more regularly win against the teams we should be beating and improved a woeful away record. Credit is deserved for results more than performances in my view. 
 

This summer is going to be very interesting. We will see clearly what ambition the board have. We have money in the bank and some significant revenue now guaranteed. We have heard Budge talking about using all spare funds on the playing side now there aren’t as many capital projects. Time will tell on that. This is the time for us to cement 3rd place and build on the last 3 seasons. I’ve been impressed with the pre contract activity but those can’t be our main moves. We need to increase the quality of the starting 11 and that means outlay and pushing the boat out. This is especially important in the midfield area as it remains totally mediocre in terms of talent and in the final 3rd as was so badly exposed on Sunday. This investment does not need done in a negligible way but in the way the 3rd biggest club, who continue to receive unprecedented backing from the fans, should be acting. We need to see some intent so that when we get back to Hampden next season we don’t shit the bed at the sight of Rangers penalty box or gift them school boy goals. This is a pivotal transfer window for those in charge. They need to stand up to be counted. 

Edited April 23 by Luckies1874

[Chuck Berry]

36 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

I was actually agreeing with you.  It the smiley threw me off

 

Apologies, it gets tiring at times on here 😂   time for a break until it all calms down.

[Chuck Berry]

38 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

I get what you are saying, the ridiculous reaction of some on here suggests that they do “expect” and thus do absolutely come across as entitled.  
 

by all means everyone of us was massively disappointed, but some of the points of view, we should just “expect” to have beaten them, our disgraceful consistent  lying down !? The fact that we have too many huns who wanted us to lose anyway, the way that every single player and the coaching staff have been torn to bits, how they aren’t good not good enough, this player and that player should never have had a contract yada yada .  
 

frankly, ****ing embarrassing ramblings of children.  But all means have a view on the game, some had good games, some had bad but make it constructive and put  it in context.  
 

 

This.

[Shooter McGavin]

15 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

We haven’t beaten them at all in 4 years though.   14 games ffs!  It’s pathetic.  Even Aberdeen have taken 4 points from them this season and beat them at the end of last season.  

True, our record in the last 4 years against them is woeful.

[Chuck Berry]

40 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Really, they invaded the pitch 😆🤪.

 

So did we at Dumbarton.

[Ricardo Quaresma]

2 hours ago, Shooter McGavin said:

If we start paying the same wages as Celtic and Rangers, we'd compete with them on a more frequent basis and beat them more often.

 

We simply cannot afford to pay the same wages though, so we'll give them the odd slap, but more often than not we'll be on the end of a sore one.

 

Amazes me how some on here just can't really grasp that.

 

Roughly 40% of their turnover is the minimum to sustain, such that giving them a doing would be a regular occurrence; paying 5 figure wages to a lot of players would seem necessary too, no Bodo / Glimt stuff in Scotland, I don't think

 

It would still be down to how resolute our players would be

 

We'd more than likely need much bigger average attendances

 

No, biggie, really 😉

[Fozzyonthefence]

11 minutes ago, Luckies1874 said:

I’ve not seen anyone saying that we should expect to beat Rangers but if they have then they are morons. I had zero expectation, as I said on here pre match, that we would win, as generally Hearts never win big matches. Given I’ve been watching us for more than 40 years now I traveled with little hope but regardless and more importantly to enjoy the occasion with family. The defeat wasn’t in anyway a surprise and it’s incredible anyone thought we’d win.
 

There has as usual been views across the spectrum about the performance which for me was underwhelming and lacklustre. I do not believe we were terrible but equally it was a disappointing effort, again, littered with poor mistakes, a total lack of cutting edge and 2 self inflicted Rangers goals. It wasn’t as bad as some recent matches against the same opposition, though given how appalling they were, that wasn’t saying an awful lot! 
 

The context for me is that we are close to achieving the most important thing this season; 3rd place and the guarantee of group game European football and the relative riches that brings. There has been some progress in terms of results this season though I’m less thrilled than some at the actual state of the team which I think is still miles away from where we should be aiming. I don’t believe at all the hyperbole, the other end of the spectrum you are talking about, that it’s been “a fantastic season”. That’s complete nonsense. Good performances have been few and far between but our mentality and ability to eek out some wins has been positive. What the team has done is start to more regularly win against the teams we should be beating and improved a woeful away record. Credit is deserved for results more than performances in my view. 
 

This summer is going to be very interesting. We will see clearly what ambition the board have. We have money in the bank and some significant revenue now guaranteed. We have heard Budge talking about using all spare funds on the playing side now there aren’t as many capital projects. Time will tell on that. This is the time for us to cement 3rd place and build on the last 3 seasons. I’ve been impressed with the pre contract activity but those can’t be our main moves. We need to increase the quality of the starting 11 and that means outlay and pushing the boat out. This is especially important in the midfield area as it remains totally mediocre in terms of talent and in the final 3rd as was so badly exposed on Sunday. This investment does not need done in a negligible way but in the way the 3rd biggest club, who continue to receive unprecedented backing from the fans, should be acting. We need to see some intent so that when we get back to Hampden next season we don’t shit the bed at the sight of Rangers penalty box or gift them school boy goals. This is a pivotal transfer window for those in charge. They need to stand up to be counted. 

Absolutely spot on.👍

[jamboozy]

2 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

All a bit Hibs arent they?

Sadly,yes😔

I know that Hearts will be right up there one day, we are going in the right direction and Rome wasn’t built in a day and all that, I just wish we could stop making excuses for not competing once in a while with the grunting huns.

      I would love it if Hearts became so successful that I couldn’t afford a season ticket anymore, it sounds a strange thing to say, but that is a small measure of how much I love our club.

[Pasquale for King]

48 minutes ago, CaptainShanks said:

I wonder how much of that is down to the astro pitch. It is a massive leveller compared with Tynie which has been like a bowling green for most of that time. 

Good point, still a decent record for them though.
Strangely enough we have a better record against Kilmarnock down there than we have at home. 

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, jamboozy said:

Sadly,yes😔

I know that Hearts will be right up there one day, we are going in the right direction and Rome wasn’t built in a day and all that, I just wish we could stop making excuses for not competing once in a while with the grunting huns.

      I would love it if Hearts became so successful that I couldn’t afford a season ticket anymore, it sounds a strange thing to say, but that is a small measure of how much I love our club.

Me too, I would manage somehow but I don’t think we should be criticised for demanding we do as well as we can every season, Sunday was well short of it. 

[jamboozy]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

Me too, I would manage somehow but I don’t think we should be criticised for demanding we do as well as we can every season, Sunday was well short of it. 

Agreed.👍 

[Pasquale for King]

32 minutes ago, Luckies1874 said:

I’ve not seen anyone saying that we should expect to beat Rangers but if they have then they are morons. I had zero expectation, as I said on here pre match, that we would win, as generally Hearts never win big matches. Given I’ve been watching us for more than 40 years now I traveled with little hope but regardless and more importantly to enjoy the occasion with family. The defeat wasn’t in anyway a surprise and it’s incredible anyone thought we’d win.
 

There has as usual been views across the spectrum about the performance which for me was underwhelming and lacklustre. I do not believe we were terrible but equally it was a disappointing effort, again, littered with poor mistakes, a total lack of cutting edge and 2 self inflicted Rangers goals. It wasn’t as bad as some recent matches against the same opposition, though given how appalling they were, that wasn’t saying an awful lot! 
 

The context for me is that we are close to achieving the most important thing this season; 3rd place and the guarantee of group game European football and the relative riches that brings. There has been some progress in terms of results this season though I’m less thrilled than some at the actual state of the team which I think is still miles away from where we should be aiming. I don’t believe at all the hyperbole, the other end of the spectrum you are talking about, that it’s been “a fantastic season”. That’s complete nonsense. Good performances have been few and far between but our mentality and ability to eek out some wins has been positive. What the team has done is start to more regularly win against the teams we should be beating and improved a woeful away record. Credit is deserved for results more than performances in my view. 
 

This summer is going to be very interesting. We will see clearly what ambition the board have. We have money in the bank and some significant revenue now guaranteed. We have heard Budge talking about using all spare funds on the playing side now there aren’t as many capital projects. Time will tell on that. This is the time for us to cement 3rd place and build on the last 3 seasons. I’ve been impressed with the pre contract activity but those can’t be our main moves. We need to increase the quality of the starting 11 and that means outlay and pushing the boat out. This is especially important in the midfield area as it remains totally mediocre in terms of talent and in the final 3rd as was so badly exposed on Sunday. This investment does not need done in a negligible way but in the way the 3rd biggest club, who continue to receive unprecedented backing from the fans, should be acting. We need to see some intent so that when we get back to Hampden next season we don’t shit the bed at the sight of Rangers penalty box or gift them school boy goals. This is a pivotal transfer window for those in charge. They need to stand up to be counted. 

Fantastic post 👍🏽

[InternationalJambo]

44 minutes ago, Luckies1874 said:

I’ve not seen anyone saying that we should expect to beat Rangers but if they have then they are morons. I had zero expectation, as I said on here pre match, that we would win, as generally Hearts never win big matches. Given I’ve been watching us for more than 40 years now I traveled with little hope but regardless and more importantly to enjoy the occasion with family. The defeat wasn’t in anyway a surprise and it’s incredible anyone thought we’d win.
 

There has as usual been views across the spectrum about the performance which for me was underwhelming and lacklustre. I do not believe we were terrible but equally it was a disappointing effort, again, littered with poor mistakes, a total lack of cutting edge and 2 self inflicted Rangers goals. It wasn’t as bad as some recent matches against the same opposition, though given how appalling they were, that wasn’t saying an awful lot! 
 

The context for me is that we are close to achieving the most important thing this season; 3rd place and the guarantee of group game European football and the relative riches that brings. There has been some progress in terms of results this season though I’m less thrilled than some at the actual state of the team which I think is still miles away from where we should be aiming. I don’t believe at all the hyperbole, the other end of the spectrum you are talking about, that it’s been “a fantastic season”. That’s complete nonsense. Good performances have been few and far between but our mentality and ability to eek out some wins has been positive. What the team has done is start to more regularly win against the teams we should be beating and improved a woeful away record. Credit is deserved for results more than performances in my view. 
 

This summer is going to be very interesting. We will see clearly what ambition the board have. We have money in the bank and some significant revenue now guaranteed. We have heard Budge talking about using all spare funds on the playing side now there aren’t as many capital projects. Time will tell on that. This is the time for us to cement 3rd place and build on the last 3 seasons. I’ve been impressed with the pre contract activity but those can’t be our main moves. We need to increase the quality of the starting 11 and that means outlay and pushing the boat out. This is especially important in the midfield area as it remains totally mediocre in terms of talent and in the final 3rd as was so badly exposed on Sunday. This investment does not need done in a negligible way but in the way the 3rd biggest club, who continue to receive unprecedented backing from the fans, should be acting. We need to see some intent so that when we get back to Hampden next season we don’t shit the bed at the sight of Rangers penalty box or gift them school boy goals. This is a pivotal transfer window for those in charge. They need to stand up to be counted. 

Some amount of drivel has been posted the last 48 hours but as usual this is an excellent post and you hit all the points people going to the games week in, week out see.
 

I couldn’t help but feel a bit underwhelmed a few seasons ago when we were at this stage of guaranteed European football until Christmas and never hit the heights we rightly or wrongly felt we should have with both results and in the transfer market. 
 

Hopefully we see the benefits of the extra income this summer as the board have stated we will. 

 

 

Edited April 23 by InternationalJambo

[GinRummy]

47 minutes ago, Luckies1874 said:

I’ve not seen anyone saying that we should expect to beat Rangers but if they have then they are morons. I had zero expectation, as I said on here pre match, that we would win, as generally Hearts never win big matches. Given I’ve been watching us for more than 40 years now I traveled with little hope but regardless and more importantly to enjoy the occasion with family. The defeat wasn’t in anyway a surprise and it’s incredible anyone thought we’d win.
 

There has as usual been views across the spectrum about the performance which for me was underwhelming and lacklustre. I do not believe we were terrible but equally it was a disappointing effort, again, littered with poor mistakes, a total lack of cutting edge and 2 self inflicted Rangers goals. It wasn’t as bad as some recent matches against the same opposition, though given how appalling they were, that wasn’t saying an awful lot! 
 

The context for me is that we are close to achieving the most important thing this season; 3rd place and the guarantee of group game European football and the relative riches that brings. There has been some progress in terms of results this season though I’m less thrilled than some at the actual state of the team which I think is still miles away from where we should be aiming. I don’t believe at all the hyperbole, the other end of the spectrum you are talking about, that it’s been “a fantastic season”. That’s complete nonsense. Good performances have been few and far between but our mentality and ability to eek out some wins has been positive. What the team has done is start to more regularly win against the teams we should be beating and improved a woeful away record. Credit is deserved for results more than performances in my view. 
 

This summer is going to be very interesting. We will see clearly what ambition the board have. We have money in the bank and some significant revenue now guaranteed. We have heard Budge talking about using all spare funds on the playing side now there aren’t as many capital projects. Time will tell on that. This is the time for us to cement 3rd place and build on the last 3 seasons. I’ve been impressed with the pre contract activity but those can’t be our main moves. We need to increase the quality of the starting 11 and that means outlay and pushing the boat out. This is especially important in the midfield area as it remains totally mediocre in terms of talent and in the final 3rd as was so badly exposed on Sunday. This investment does not need done in a negligible way but in the way the 3rd biggest club, who continue to receive unprecedented backing from the fans, should be acting. We need to see some intent so that when we get back to Hampden next season we don’t shit the bed at the sight of Rangers penalty box or gift them school boy goals. This is a pivotal transfer window for those in charge. They need to stand up to be counted. 

Great post. 

[RustyRightPeg]

51 minutes ago, Luckies1874 said:

I’ve not seen anyone saying that we should expect to beat Rangers but if they have then they are morons. I had zero expectation, as I said on here pre match, that we would win, as generally Hearts never win big matches. Given I’ve been watching us for more than 40 years now I traveled with little hope but regardless and more importantly to enjoy the occasion with family. The defeat wasn’t in anyway a surprise and it’s incredible anyone thought we’d win.
 

There has as usual been views across the spectrum about the performance which for me was underwhelming and lacklustre. I do not believe we were terrible but equally it was a disappointing effort, again, littered with poor mistakes, a total lack of cutting edge and 2 self inflicted Rangers goals. It wasn’t as bad as some recent matches against the same opposition, though given how appalling they were, that wasn’t saying an awful lot! 
 

The context for me is that we are close to achieving the most important thing this season; 3rd place and the guarantee of group game European football and the relative riches that brings. There has been some progress in terms of results this season though I’m less thrilled than some at the actual state of the team which I think is still miles away from where we should be aiming. I don’t believe at all the hyperbole, the other end of the spectrum you are talking about, that it’s been “a fantastic season”. That’s complete nonsense. Good performances have been few and far between but our mentality and ability to eek out some wins has been positive. What the team has done is start to more regularly win against the teams we should be beating and improved a woeful away record. Credit is deserved for results more than performances in my view. 
 

This summer is going to be very interesting. We will see clearly what ambition the board have. We have money in the bank and some significant revenue now guaranteed. We have heard Budge talking about using all spare funds on the playing side now there aren’t as many capital projects. Time will tell on that. This is the time for us to cement 3rd place and build on the last 3 seasons. I’ve been impressed with the pre contract activity but those can’t be our main moves. We need to increase the quality of the starting 11 and that means outlay and pushing the boat out. This is especially important in the midfield area as it remains totally mediocre in terms of talent and in the final 3rd as was so badly exposed on Sunday. This investment does not need done in a negligible way but in the way the 3rd biggest club, who continue to receive unprecedented backing from the fans, should be acting. We need to see some intent so that when we get back to Hampden next season we don’t shit the bed at the sight of Rangers penalty box or gift them school boy goals. This is a pivotal transfer window for those in charge. They need to stand up to be counted. 

 

Really well put.

 

I have no reason to doubt Budge and I firmly believe we'll break our transfer record this summer. 

[Rampant]

1 hour ago, Sir PH said:

Why only go back four years (when they weren't even in the same league for a season) for Killie's record v Rangers? 

 

Because it removes the anomalous Steve Clarke era, which would otherwise distort, unreasonably, the actual trend which is that Scottish teams who aren't Celtic tend to lose to Rangers.

[TurboT]

1 hour ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

We haven’t beaten them at all in 4 years though.   14 games ffs!  It’s pathetic.  Even Aberdeen have taken 4 points from them this season and beat them at the end of last season.  

Aberdeen treat the Rangers games as their cup final and have regularly pulled off results against them.  Aberdeen's record against Celtic is like night and day compared to Rangers and it's been that way for many years.

[Fozzyonthefence]

1 minute ago, Rampant said:

 

Because it removes the anomalous Steve Clarke era, which would otherwise distort, unreasonably, the actual trend which is that Scottish teams who aren't Celtic tend to lose to Rangers.

So you exclude results when a team has a good manager?  How about when a team has a shite manager?  

[soonbe110]

1 hour ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

We haven’t beaten them at all in 4 years though.   14 games ffs!  It’s pathetic.  Even Aberdeen have taken 4 points from them this season and beat them at the end of last season.  

It happens, we were on a similar kind of run against Celtic until the 4-0 game I think.  Aberdeen are currently 25 games against Celtic without a win. Now that would be worth worrying about. 

[Fozzyonthefence]

Just now, TurboT said:

Aberdeen treat the Rangers games as their cup final and have regularly pulled off results against them.  Aberdeen's record against Celtic is like night and day compared to Rangers and it's been that way for many years.

So Rangers don’t try against Aberdeen?  The team they hate more than anyone except Celtic. 
 

Your last sentence isn’t true.  Aberdeen had an abysmal record against Rangers for many years until McIness took advantage of a vulnerable Sevco when they finally got into the top tier.   And they’ve started getting results against them again but didn’t they go something like 20 / 30 years without winning at Ibrox?

[Fozzyonthefence]

4 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

It happens, we were on a similar kind of run against Celtic until the 4-0 game I think.  Aberdeen are currently 25 games against Celtic without a win. Now that would be worth worrying about. 

I’d imagine they have a similar thread to this about Celtic!  That is shocking!

[Korky]

1 hour ago, Luckies1874 said:

I’ve not seen anyone saying that we should expect to beat Rangers but if they have then they are morons. I had zero expectation, as I said on here pre match, that we would win, as generally Hearts never win big matches. Given I’ve been watching us for more than 40 years now I traveled with little hope but regardless and more importantly to enjoy the occasion with family. The defeat wasn’t in anyway a surprise and it’s incredible anyone thought we’d win.
 

There has as usual been views across the spectrum about the performance which for me was underwhelming and lacklustre. I do not believe we were terrible but equally it was a disappointing effort, again, littered with poor mistakes, a total lack of cutting edge and 2 self inflicted Rangers goals. It wasn’t as bad as some recent matches against the same opposition, though given how appalling they were, that wasn’t saying an awful lot! 
 

The context for me is that we are close to achieving the most important thing this season; 3rd place and the guarantee of group game European football and the relative riches that brings. There has been some progress in terms of results this season though I’m less thrilled than some at the actual state of the team which I think is still miles away from where we should be aiming. I don’t believe at all the hyperbole, the other end of the spectrum you are talking about, that it’s been “a fantastic season”. That’s complete nonsense. Good performances have been few and far between but our mentality and ability to eek out some wins has been positive. What the team has done is start to more regularly win against the teams we should be beating and improved a woeful away record. Credit is deserved for results more than performances in my view. 
 

This summer is going to be very interesting. We will see clearly what ambition the board have. We have money in the bank and some significant revenue now guaranteed. We have heard Budge talking about using all spare funds on the playing side now there aren’t as many capital projects. Time will tell on that. This is the time for us to cement 3rd place and build on the last 3 seasons. I’ve been impressed with the pre contract activity but those can’t be our main moves. We need to increase the quality of the starting 11 and that means outlay and pushing the boat out. This is especially important in the midfield area as it remains totally mediocre in terms of talent and in the final 3rd as was so badly exposed on Sunday. This investment does not need done in a negligible way but in the way the 3rd biggest club, who continue to receive unprecedented backing from the fans, should be acting. We need to see some intent so that when we get back to Hampden next season we don’t shit the bed at the sight of Rangers penalty box or gift them school boy goals. This is a pivotal transfer window for those in charge. They need to stand up to be counted. 

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

 

[kingantti1874]

11 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

So Rangers don’t try against Aberdeen?  The team they hate more than anyone except Celtic. 
 

Your last sentence isn’t true.  Aberdeen had an abysmal record against Rangers for many years until McIness took advantage of a vulnerable Sevco when they finally got into the top tier.   And they’ve started getting results against them again but didn’t they go something like 20 / 30 years without winning at Ibrox?

There is no real mystery.  It’s styles I think.  right now our style of play and the players we have fair better against Celtic than rangers.  Aberdeen are the oppostite

 

When we were promoted back in 2015  it was the other way around for a good few years, couldn’t buy a point against Celtic but had a great record v the rangers at home at least. 
 

Specifically against rangers physicality is a real issu. In so many key position they are simply bigger stronger and faster which causes us a real problem.  Lundstram for example strolls about like ****ing zidane .  So often our players just get muscled of the ball.  
 

Physicality is one thing I really would like to see us improve in int he summer.  In fact we need to if we are to compete in Europe.  
 

too wee, too small, too slow 

[kingantti1874]

1 hour ago, Luckies1874 said:

I’ve not seen anyone saying that we should expect to beat Rangers but if they have then they are morons. I had zero expectation, as I said on here pre match, that we would win, as generally Hearts never win big matches. Given I’ve been watching us for more than 40 years now I traveled with little hope but regardless and more importantly to enjoy the occasion with family. The defeat wasn’t in anyway a surprise and it’s incredible anyone thought we’d win.
 

There has as usual been views across the spectrum about the performance which for me was underwhelming and lacklustre. I do not believe we were terrible but equally it was a disappointing effort, again, littered with poor mistakes, a total lack of cutting edge and 2 self inflicted Rangers goals. It wasn’t as bad as some recent matches against the same opposition, though given how appalling they were, that wasn’t saying an awful lot! 
 

The context for me is that we are close to achieving the most important thing this season; 3rd place and the guarantee of group game European football and the relative riches that brings. There has been some progress in terms of results this season though I’m less thrilled than some at the actual state of the team which I think is still miles away from where we should be aiming. I don’t believe at all the hyperbole, the other end of the spectrum you are talking about, that it’s been “a fantastic season”. That’s complete nonsense. Good performances have been few and far between but our mentality and ability to eek out some wins has been positive. What the team has done is start to more regularly win against the teams we should be beating and improved a woeful away record. Credit is deserved for results more than performances in my view. 
 

This summer is going to be very interesting. We will see clearly what ambition the board have. We have money in the bank and some significant revenue now guaranteed. We have heard Budge talking about using all spare funds on the playing side now there aren’t as many capital projects. Time will tell on that. This is the time for us to cement 3rd place and build on the last 3 seasons. I’ve been impressed with the pre contract activity but those can’t be our main moves. We need to increase the quality of the starting 11 and that means outlay and pushing the boat out. This is especially important in the midfield area as it remains totally mediocre in terms of talent and in the final 3rd as was so badly exposed on Sunday. This investment does not need done in a negligible way but in the way the 3rd biggest club, who continue to receive unprecedented backing from the fans, should be acting. We need to see some intent so that when we get back to Hampden next season we don’t shit the bed at the sight of Rangers penalty box or gift them school boy goals. This is a pivotal transfer window for those in charge. They need to stand up to be counted. 

A sensible rational and constructive post and position to take.

 

There sadly are people whose reactions are well over the top and could only have been based on expectation imo.

 

I don’t think that’s a point we need to argue, as I say I agree with everything you’ve said. Well balanced and constructive

 

 

 

Edited April 23 by kingantti1874

[TurboT]

18 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

So Rangers don’t try against Aberdeen?  The team they hate more than anyone except Celtic. 
 

Your last sentence isn’t true.  Aberdeen had an abysmal record against Rangers for many years until McIness took advantage of a vulnerable Sevco when they finally got into the top tier.   And they’ve started getting results against them again but didn’t they go something like 20 / 30 years without winning at Ibrox?

In the last 20 years, Aberdeen have won twice as many as games against Rangers compared to Celtic so not sure how it isn't true?

 

I remember years ago, Walter Smith stating that Aberdeen tried harder against Rangers and I'm sure it was Ricky Foster who played for Rangers and Aberdeen who said that Aberdeen always raised their game more against Rangers than Celtic.

[boag1874]

2 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

We haven’t beaten them at all in 4 years though.   14 games ffs!  It’s pathetic.  Even Aberdeen have taken 4 points from them this season and beat them at the end of last season.  

It’s an absolutely shocking record no denying it. A lot of it is self inflicted too.
 

It’s the biggest white elephant at the club right now, it’s rare we even get a passable performance against them. We shouldn’t expect to beat them, I’m always happy to take a point v them, we’re underdogs v them, they’re obviously a better team than us and are stronger in every position but it’s ridiculous how often players fail to do the basics when we play them and how often a player will have their worst game for hearts against them. I think that’s what people find hardest to take when they beat us.

[Fozzyonthefence]

35 minutes ago, TurboT said:

In the last 20 years, Aberdeen have won twice as many as games against Rangers compared to Celtic so not sure how it isn't true?

 

I remember years ago, Walter Smith stating that Aberdeen tried harder against Rangers and I'm sure it was Ricky Foster who played for Rangers and Aberdeen who said that Aberdeen always raised their game more against Rangers than Celtic.

I was suggesting they were equally as abysmal against Rangers as they were against Celtic until Rangers went into liquidation (I don’t think they had won at Ibrox since around 1990 until McIness managed it and had a horrific spell against Rangers in general). In recent seasons of course they have been as embarrassing against Celtic as we have been against Rangers.

[Pasquale for King]

43 minutes ago, TurboT said:

In the last 20 years, Aberdeen have won twice as many as games against Rangers compared to Celtic so not sure how it isn't true?

 

I remember years ago, Walter Smith stating that Aberdeen tried harder against Rangers and I'm sure it was Ricky Foster who played for Rangers and Aberdeen who said that Aberdeen always raised their game more against Rangers than Celtic.

Looks like we do that against Celtic, has anyone got an explanation for that? Apart from being bullied anyway.

Edited April 23 by Pasquale for King

[Pasquale for King]

5 minutes ago, boag1874 said:

It’s an absolutely shocking record no denying it. A lot of it is self inflicted too.
 

It’s the biggest white elephant at the club right now, it’s rare we even get a passable performance against them. We shouldn’t expect to beat them, I’m always happy to take a point v them, we’re underdogs v them, they’re obviously a better team than us and are stronger in every position but it’s ridiculous how often players fail to do the basics when we play them and how often a player will have their worst game for hearts against them. I think that’s what people find hardest to take when they beat us.

Spot on. 

[Hectormasson]

2 hours ago, Sir PH said:

Count them if you like. Kilmarnock are half the size of Hearts and have a better league record against Rangers than Hearts. 

not even half the size tbh...