Lord Montpelier Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 23 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said: We should accept her back and send Aamer Anwar to Syria imo. Fair swap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 15 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said: I remember a Home Secretary, whose name I can't remember, saying they had evidence of things she had been involved in, which if made public, would show why the government don't want her back in the UK. Maybe they think that the evidence isn't strong enough for a court of law, or that revealing the evidence would threaten the security of the source that it came from. She's almost certain to have seen some terrible acts of violence that ISIS carried out, whether she was directly involved or not. Would she be able to live safely from retribution in this country, after her release into UK society? Probably not. What she actually done would help a lot of people decide on whether she should return or nor. Maybe there is conclusive evidence of why she shouldn’t return, other than what is public knowledge but vague unsubstantiated chat from a Tory politician is as likely to be false as it is true imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 If she is such a high threat to the UK due to her Terrorist connections. Surely she's a much smaller threat rotting in a UK jail that roaming about freely in Syria? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionDJambo Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 4 minutes ago, GinRummy said: but vague unsubstantiated chat from a Tory politician is as likely to be false as it is true imo. I agree. This is the worst thing, generally, about the last 5 years, in particular, of UK politics. We don’t know whether we can trust what too many of them tell us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gundermann Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 1 hour ago, GinRummy said: No disrespect but that’s not what I asked. You said she was groomed so specific to her, how was she groomed? What was the process and how do we determine what is grooming and what is more people actively looking to join ISIS? How TF would we know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gundermann Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 2 hours ago, BlueRiver said: She didn't go on "holiday" and have a couple of chats though did she. Anyway. If Shooter only has and is only entitled to UK citizenship then the decision to revoke it would be found unlawful. Simples as that. Because she didn't go on holiday, she wasn't a child??! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter McGavin Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 1 hour ago, hughesie27 said: Nobody is welcoming her back with open arms. You're other comparisons area bit pointless, you can do all those things but are deemed too immature to place a vote on who you think should run the country for another 2 years. One of the most clear and defining ways of expressing your citizenship. But that's taken away from her for a decision she made at 15. I’d much rather the tax money that would inevitably be spent on her surveillance, security, housing her or jailing her etc, was spent on youngsters here who haven’t previously joined a terrorist organisation, to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 4 minutes ago, Gundermann said: How TF would we know? I never said ‘we’ would know. So if we accept we don’t have the facts it’s really ****ing stupid to have a strong opinion on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Montpelier Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 12 minutes ago, hughesie27 said: If she is such a high threat to the UK due to her Terrorist connections. Surely she's a much smaller threat rotting in a UK jail that roaming about freely in Syria? You going to pay for her to stay in a UK jail then ? I'm not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il Duce McTarkin Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 2 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said: I’d much rather the tax money that would inevitably be spent on her surveillance, security, housing her or jailing her etc, was spent on youngsters here who haven’t previously joined a terrorist organisation, to be honest. The two need not be mutually exclusive. On the contrary, Begum may prove an invaluable resource for security services and social services faced with the prospect of other youngsters here who haven’t previously joined a terrorist organisation, but may be so inclined for whatever reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il Duce McTarkin Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Just now, Lord Montpelier said: You going to pay for her to stay in a UK jail then ? I'm not You're already paying for much, much worse than Begum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 1 hour ago, cannonfoda said: Currently working in a secure unit. It's an eye opener. Anyway - agree to disagree with majority on this subject but at least we've that option. Oh and f#£k the Huns tomorrow!!!! Going with 1-3 shankland hattrick Thought the secure units were closed in Edinburgh ? That’s if you live here ? 1 hour ago, Lord Montpelier said: I'm sure big Humza will be along soon enough to offer her asylum in this fine progressive country he's building. 💯 he would 1 hour ago, Lord Montpelier said: Always seems to be those with scottish nationalist credentials that empathise with terrorists. It was duly noted by myself too . Quelle surprise 17 minutes ago, hughesie27 said: If she is such a high threat to the UK due to her Terrorist connections. Surely she's a much smaller threat rotting in a UK jail that roaming about freely in Syria? She’s had uk tax payers money wasted on her Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Montpelier Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 5 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said: You're already paying for much, much worse than Begum. I know. And we don't need one person more on top of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il Duce McTarkin Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 5 minutes ago, GinRummy said: So if we accept we don’t have the facts it’s really ****ing stupid to have a strong opinion on it. It's not really stupid, Gin. At times we need to take the reductionist approach and strip away all the emotion and politics that surround the issue. Bearing in mind that this is not an existential conundrum, you can ask yourself two questions, answer them honestly, and build an opinion from that starting point. What kind of moral being am I, and what kind of society do we want to be? There are the ISIS' of this world, Gin, and there are those that should rightly oppose them, but 'he who fights with monsters' should never be far from our minds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter McGavin Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 6 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said: The two need not be mutually exclusive. On the contrary, Begum may prove an invaluable resource for security services and social services faced with the prospect of other youngsters here who haven’t previously joined a terrorist organisation, but may be so inclined for whatever reason. That’s a fair point, and I accept where you’re coming from in that regard. They clearly feel that she carries too much of a risk to bother getting back for intel, or use in some kind of anti-extremism initiative. If she was brought back, I think the chances of her living a normal life are practically zero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il Duce McTarkin Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Just now, Shooter McGavin said: If she was brought back, I think the chances of her living a normal life are practically zero. And rightly so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said: You going to pay for her to stay in a UK jail then ? I'm not A price worth paying to protect British lives, no? Edited February 23 by hughesie27 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 2 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said: It's not really stupid, Gin. At times we need to take the reductionist approach and strip away all the emotion and politics that surround the issue. Bearing in mind that this is not an existential conundrum, you can ask yourself two questions, answer them honestly, and build an opinion from that starting point. What kind of moral being am I, and what kind of society do we want to be? There are the ISIS' of this world, Gin, and there are those that should rightly oppose them, but 'he who fights with monsters' should never be far from our minds. Entirely fair but for me there are just too many unanswered questions. The reason I think they are unanswered isn’t for reasons of national security but more to do with the facts, as they are known now, coupled with the decision to exile her are a people pleaser as far as voters are concerned. Just my take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il Duce McTarkin Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 1 minute ago, GinRummy said: The reason I think they are unanswered isn’t for reasons of national security but more to do with the facts, as they are known now, coupled with the decision to exile her are a people pleaser as far as voters are concerned. Just my take. That's not an unreasonable take, tbf. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannonfoda Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 17 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said: Thought the secure units were closed in Edinburgh ? That’s if you live here ? 💯 he would It was duly noted by myself too . Quelle surprise She’s had uk tax payers money wasted on her Secure as in locked unit at one of the hospitals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Montpelier Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 14 minutes ago, hughesie27 said: A price worth paying to protect British lives, no? We are well protected with her 1000s of miles away under the watchful eye of our fine intelligence services Honesty some of the nats on here might as well sign up for affiliate memberships with the green brigade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 1 minute ago, Lord Montpelier said: We are well protected with her 1000s of miles away under the watchful eye of our fine intelligence services Honesty some of the nats on here might as well sign up for affiliate memberships with the green brigade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il Duce McTarkin Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 2 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said: Honesty some of the nats on here might as well sign up for affiliate memberships with the green brigade. On here as in Kickback, or on here as in this thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Montpelier Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 1 minute ago, il Duce McTarkin said: On here as in Kickback, or on here as in this thread? Take your pick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 5 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said: We are well protected with her 1000s of miles away under the watchful eye of our fine intelligence services Honesty some of the nats on here might as well sign up for affiliate memberships with the green brigade. I. Know. 8 minutes ago, cannonfoda said: Secure as in locked unit at one of the hospitals Ok 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 5 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said: We are well protected with her 1000s of miles away under the watchful eye of our fine intelligence services Honesty some of the nats on here might as well sign up for affiliate memberships with the green brigade. What are we being protected from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 6 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said: We are well protected with her 1000s of miles away under the watchful eye of our fine intelligence services Honesty some of the nats on here might as well sign up for affiliate memberships with the green brigade. So happy to be spending money on intelligence tabs on her. Gotcha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 All this wooly, namby pampy pish, shoot the horrible cntu right in the pus🤬 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Montpelier Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 1 minute ago, hughesie27 said: So happy to be spending money on intelligence tabs on her. Gotcha. Absolutely. A million times better than having her anywhere in the UK becoming some kind of pin up girl for extremism / terrorist sympathisers on these shores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) 15 minutes ago, cannonfoda said: Secure as in locked unit at one of the hospitals Apologies. Misunderstood your post. Edited February 23 by GinRummy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 1 hour ago, SectionDJambo said: I remember a Home Secretary, whose name I can't remember, saying they had evidence of things she had been involved in, which if made public, would show why the government don't want her back in the UK. Maybe they think that the evidence isn't strong enough for a court of law, or that revealing the evidence would threaten the security of the source that it came from. She's almost certain to have seen some terrible acts of violence that ISIS carried out, whether she was directly involved or not. Would she be able to live safely from retribution in this country, after her release into UK society? Probably not. It was Sajid Javid who said it if I recall. Every court case has heard the evidence that the government/security services has on her behind closed doors in private and no media present and every court has found against her, I'm not saying that the evidence made a difference in the courts decision, because I don't know what that evidence is, but.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il Duce McTarkin Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 3 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said: It was Sajid Javid who said it if I recall. Every court case has heard the evidence that the government/security services has on her behind closed doors in private and no media present and every court has found against her, I'm not saying that the evidence made a difference in the courts decision, because I don't know what that evidence is, but.... If she was that much of a danger she'd have been Navalnyd on the q.t. yonks ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il Duce McTarkin Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 13 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: All this wooly, namby pampy pish, shoot the horrible cntu right in the pus🤬 You can show off all you like but I'm not improving your day-rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Just now, il Duce McTarkin said: You can show off all you like but I'm not improving your day-rate. If you just add a Macaroon Bar to your initial offer of a bottle of Tizer and and a family size pack of Tunnocks Caramel Wafers I'd be in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 10 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said: If she was that much of a danger she'd have been Navalnyd on the q.t. yonks ago. I don't think she, personally, would be a threat, more that she'd be seen a returning hero to some, encouraging bam pots to coalesce around her and encouraging, potentially, extreme acts of violence here, the last thing anyone needs is some totemic poster girl arriving back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il Duce McTarkin Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 38 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: I don't think she, personally, would be a threat, more that she'd be seen a returning hero to some, encouraging bam pots to coalesce around her and encouraging, potentially, extreme acts of violence here, the last thing anyone needs is some totemic poster girl arriving back. You're inclined to view things through the lens of worse case scenarios, eh Dawn'. A true product of Thatchers Scotland indeed, for better or worse. Good lad, though, the tizer and caramel wafers are yours, but only complete psychos get the macaroon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 6 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said: You're inclined to view things through the lens of worse case scenarios, eh Dawn'. A true product of Thatchers Scotland indeed, for better or worse. Good lad, though, the tizer and caramel wafers are yours, but only complete psychos get the macaroon. Probably not far from the mark, but, if she came back do you think she'd held up as a symbol of peace, reconciliation and progress? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: Probably not far from the mark, but, if she came back do you think she'd held up as a symbol of peace, reconciliation and progress? She’d probably just go to jail and that would pretty much be that other than The Guardian having occasional campaigns for her release. Edited February 23 by GinRummy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Just now, GinRummy said: She’s probably just go to jail and that would pretty much be that other than The Guardian having occasional campaigns for her release. I doubt that, not the going to jail bit, the pretty much better that bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 2 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: I doubt that, not the going to jail bit, the pretty much better that bit. I just don’t see anything else. No way of proving it but it’s not as if she’s some top dog of Islamic state. They’ve tried to kill her after all. She’s turned her back on them to achieve her goal of returning to Britain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueRiver Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 2 hours ago, Gundermann said: Because she didn't go on holiday, she wasn't a child??! Not the point I was addressing but you go off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabienleclerq Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Bit torn on the issue tbh, she's made her bed and wants to now come crawling back because they lost. She's vermin and I have no sympathy for her However, I'm not sure the precedent of making her stateless a healthy thing for us. What happens when they do it to the next person who's politics the government don't like? All a bit putin for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il Duce McTarkin Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 14 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: Probably not far from the mark, but, if she came back do you think she'd held up as a symbol of peace, reconciliation and progress? I think she'd be off to the clink to dissappear from the public conciousness, like the myriad other assorted scumbags we keep banged up. Having her hang out with her buddies in Syria launching appeals every now and again gives anyone with an agenda oxygen - as the existence of this thread attests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Des Lynam Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 1 minute ago, fabienleclerq said: Bit torn on the issue tbh, she's made her bed and wants to now come crawling back because they lost. She's vermin and I have no sympathy for her However, I'm not sure the precedent of making her stateless a healthy thing for us. What happens when they do it to the next person who's politics the government don't like? All a bit putin for me. It's nothing like Putin. I doubt many folk had given her any thought until her appeal surfaced on the news this week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabienleclerq Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 4 minutes ago, Des Lynam said: It's nothing like Putin. I doubt many folk had given her any thought until her appeal surfaced on the news this week. I hadn't no, if she finds herself in front of a sniper in the near future I wouldn't much either. Dangerous precedent to set making her stateless regardless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Des Lynam Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 2 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said: I hadn't no, if she finds herself in front of a sniper in the near future I wouldn't much either. Dangerous precedent to set making her stateless regardless. There is no doubt my empathetic side feels a little sympathy for her but by this time next week she'll be old news and forgotten. If i was advising her i would have her burn the Islamic state flag on camera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 20 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said: I hadn't no, if she finds herself in front of a sniper in the near future I wouldn't much either. Dangerous precedent to set making her stateless regardless. I refer you to my initial point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gundermann Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 1 hour ago, BlueRiver said: Not the point I was addressing but you go off. You could address any random point but the fact remains, she was a child. She was vulnerable and was, so it seems, abused because of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il Duce McTarkin Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) She needs her head chopped off with an axe imo. Edited February 23 by il Duce McTarkin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pap Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Once she got out of prison here she would be given a new identity. Theres absolutely zero chance she'd be able to rejoin normal society. Hard choice for the government but it was the correct one imo. Its no like the government wanted to be in this situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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