cannonfoda Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 51 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said: We've all done pretty stupid things as teenagers, but I think leaving your family behind in the 1st world to travel to a third world country, so that you can join a terror group and marry an Islamic State member, is a bit beyond the pale. Don't buy this "She was only 15 and vulnerable" argument either. If at 15 you genuinely think joining a terrorist organisation is a good decision, then there's no hope for you At this point, she isn't worth the hassle. She was a child. Legal definition based on international law : The UNCRC is made up of 54 articles and applies to all those aged 18 years and under. We screwed up by removing citizenship. Throwing this back on you - if you went on holiday and tried to come back but government said "nope you spoke to X y and z whilst you were away so we've cancelled your passport" what would YOU do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 1 hour ago, cannonfoda said: She was a kid when she was groomed. If it was your kid? UK did badly here ripping up her citizenship - worse than NK! How do you determine if she’s been groomed or she actively sought out a way to get to the so called Islamic State? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 15 minutes ago, Jim_Duncan said: He was British. I live in a top floor flat. Wanna come round? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Australis Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Great news she has been refused again. Who pays for all her lawyers bills, us I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 1 minute ago, Australis said: Great news she has been refused again. Who pays for all her lawyers bills, us I suppose. Yes those why pay taxes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueRiver Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 20 minutes ago, cannonfoda said: She was a child. Legal definition based on international law : The UNCRC is made up of 54 articles and applies to all those aged 18 years and under. We screwed up by removing citizenship. Throwing this back on you - if you went on holiday and tried to come back but government said "nope you spoke to X y and z whilst you were away so we've cancelled your passport" what would YOU do? She didn't go on "holiday" and have a couple of chats though did she. Anyway. If Shooter only has and is only entitled to UK citizenship then the decision to revoke it would be found unlawful. Simples as that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim_Duncan Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 14 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said: Just jesting! It’s only two floors up and there are so many dead gays already stacked up I’d have to launch you up the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Just now, Jim_Duncan said: launch you up the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 6 minutes ago, BlueRiver said: She didn't go on "holiday" and have a couple of chats though did she. Anyway. If Shooter only has and is only entitled to UK citizenship then the decision to revoke it would be found unlawful. Simples as that. Imagine if we were an Indy Scotland and she Scottish born ? She would be welcomed back by the usual suspects I expect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Findlay Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 30 minutes ago, cannonfoda said: She was a child. Legal definition based on international law : The UNCRC is made up of 54 articles and applies to all those aged 18 years and under. We screwed up by removing citizenship. Throwing this back on you - if you went on holiday and tried to come back but government said "nope you spoke to X y and z whilst you were away so we've cancelled your passport" what would YOU do? No we didn't. So if an adult is deemed to be 18yrs of age, then that means children are voting in Scottish elections. She knew fine well what she was doing. She reaps what she sows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim_Duncan Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 3 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said: Your mind is dirtier than a workie’s Ford Transit on a Friday afternoon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim_Duncan Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 1 minute ago, John Findlay said: No we didn't. So if an adult is deemed to be 18yrs of age, then that means children are voting in Scottish elections. She knew fine well what she was doing. She reaps what she sows. Heard she did a mean line in sewing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Findlay Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Just now, Jim_Duncan said: Heard she did a mean line in sewing. She probably does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 3 minutes ago, Jim_Duncan said: Your mind is dirtier than a workie’s Ford Transit on a Friday afternoon. And his van is even dirtier when am in the back of it with him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim_Duncan Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 5 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said: And his van is even dirtier when am in the back of it with him FFS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannonfoda Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 20 minutes ago, BlueRiver said: She didn't go on "holiday" and have a couple of chats though did she. Anyway. If Shooter only has and is only entitled to UK citizenship then the decision to revoke it would be found unlawful. Simples as that. That's where she is.... Any other citizenship is based on great grandparents which isn't legal. Anyway I'm not gonna win here so I'm out. Careful what you end up with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 1 hour ago, cannonfoda said: She was a kid when she was groomed. If it was your kid? UK did badly here ripping up her citizenship - worse than NK! Interesting take haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannonfoda Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 14 minutes ago, John Findlay said: No we didn't. So if an adult is deemed to be 18yrs of age, then that means children are voting in Scottish elections. She knew fine well what she was doing. She reaps what she sows. Legally, yep we've got kids voting here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randle P McMurphy Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 So are the British passport holders that have gone to join the IDF genocide of the Palestinians going to have their passports removed too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannonfoda Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 46 minutes ago, GinRummy said: How do you determine if she’s been groomed or she actively sought out a way to get to the so called Islamic State? The actual UK government has admitted it... The Siac court had acknowledged there was credible suspicion that Begum “was recruited, transferred and then harboured for the purpose of sexual exploitation”, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 1 hour ago, henrysmithsgloves said: Thought she already had been 🤔 by all accounts her face was left looking like a painters radio on a regular basis 😦 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 2 hours ago, Gundermann said: "I don't like Islamists as they're violent. Not civilised like us" Never once have I claimed I'm "civilised" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 53 minutes ago, cannonfoda said: She was a child. Legal definition based on international law : The UNCRC is made up of 54 articles and applies to all those aged 18 years and under. We screwed up by removing citizenship. Throwing this back on you - if you went on holiday and tried to come back but government said "nope you spoke to X y and z whilst you were away so we've cancelled your passport" what would YOU do? You can't seriously be comparing"going on holiday" with what she went and joined are you? Really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 3 minutes ago, cannonfoda said: The actual UK government has admitted it... The Siac court had acknowledged there was credible suspicion that Begum “was recruited, transferred and then harboured for the purpose of sexual exploitation”, No disrespect but that’s not what I asked. You said she was groomed so specific to her, how was she groomed? What was the process and how do we determine what is grooming and what is more people actively looking to join ISIS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Australis Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 9 minutes ago, Randle P McMurphy said: So are the British passport holders that have gone to join the IDF genocide of the Palestinians going to have their passports removed too? They should all get a medal. Fighting terrorists and terrorism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueRiver Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 12 minutes ago, cannonfoda said: That's where she is.... Any other citizenship is based on great grandparents which isn't legal. Anyway I'm not gonna win here so I'm out. Careful what you end up with. Well that's wrong. It is perfectly legal or the court would've declared it unlawful today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 10 minutes ago, Randle P McMurphy said: So are the British passport holders that have gone to join the IDF genocide of the Palestinians going to have their passports removed too? It would probably come down to if the current Uk government view whoever a British citizen is fighting for is a threat to the country. As you maybe suggested, they’ll decide politically as much as legally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueRiver Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 13 minutes ago, Randle P McMurphy said: So are the British passport holders that have gone to join the IDF genocide of the Palestinians going to have their passports removed too? If their sole eligible citizenship would be British citizenship then no, it would be unlawful to do so. There's cases where the above have been upheld in recent years they just don't get the same level of media attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 4 minutes ago, GinRummy said: No disrespect but that’s not what I asked. You said she was groomed so specific to her, how was she groomed? What was the process and how do we determine what is grooming and what is more people actively looking to join ISIS? Good questions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueRiver Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 6 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: You can't seriously be comparing"going on holiday" with what she went and joined are you? Really? Conflating it like it was a wee trip to Spain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Montpelier Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 2 minutes ago, BlueRiver said: Well that's wrong. It is perfectly legal or the court would've declared it unlawful today. There are a couple of excuseniks on this thread. Usual suspects, am sure they would be very happy with Ms Begum living next door to their parents or kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Just now, Lord Montpelier said: There are a couple of excuseniks on this thread. Usual suspects, am sure they would be very happy with Ms Begum living next door to their parents or kids. Yep usual suspects . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il Duce McTarkin Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 14 minutes ago, cannonfoda said: Begum “was recruited, transferred and then harboured for the purpose of sexual exploitation”, Meh, admit it, lads, we've all done it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 19 minutes ago, cannonfoda said: That's where she is.... Any other citizenship is based on great grandparents which isn't legal. Anyway I'm not gonna win here so I'm out. Careful what you end up with. Certainly don’t want to end up with the kind of country she would have us living in. Sometimes the liberal dilemma isn’t a dilemma at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter McGavin Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 53 minutes ago, cannonfoda said: She was a child. Legal definition based on international law : The UNCRC is made up of 54 articles and applies to all those aged 18 years and under. We screwed up by removing citizenship. Throwing this back on you - if you went on holiday and tried to come back but government said "nope you spoke to X y and z whilst you were away so we've cancelled your passport" what would YOU do? I actually think it's a slippier slope to start accepting folk back, after they've left the country to be apart of a terrorist group, than it is to implement a no tolerance policy. I'd be a bit miffed, to be honest. But if I left the country to meet up with a member of a terrorist organisation, with the intention of marrying him and setting up a new life where I then become assosciated said terrorist group and their terrorist activities, I'd probably not expect to be welcomed back with open arms when I decide I don't fancy it anymore, to be honest. She was 15 years old, 12 months away from being legally allowed to get her own home, get married and get a full-time job. But too young to know that joining a terrorist group is bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il Duce McTarkin Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 2 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said: There are a couple of excuseniks on this thread. Usual suspects, am sure they would be very happy with Ms Begum living next door to their parents or kids. If my parents or kids were living in a secure unit, then aye, she'd be more than welcome next door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannonfoda Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 1 minute ago, il Duce McTarkin said: If my parents or kids were living in a secure unit, then aye, she'd be more than welcome next door. Currently working in a secure unit. It's an eye opener. Anyway - agree to disagree with majority on this subject but at least we've that option. Oh and f#£k the Huns tomorrow!!!! Going with 1-3 shankland hattrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That thing you do Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 6 hours ago, hughesie27 said: She shouldn't have had her citizenship removed. She should serve whatever jail sentence is deemed appropriate. Absolutely right and completely agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il Duce McTarkin Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 3 minutes ago, That thing you do said: Absolutely right and completely agree. +1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said: I'd probably not expect to be welcomed back with open arms when I decide I don't fancy it anymore, to be honest. She was 15 years old, 12 months away from being legally allowed to get her own home, get married and get a full-time job. But too young to know that joining a terrorist group is bad? Nobody is welcoming her back with open arms. You're other comparisons area bit pointless, you can do all those things but are deemed too immature to place a vote on who you think should run the country for another 2 years. One of the most clear and defining ways of expressing your citizenship. But that's taken away from her for a decision she made at 15. Edited February 23 by hughesie27 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Brown Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 She should get herself on a boat. Back in the UK in no time. And bugger all we could do about it. She can't be be sent back anywhere. Are the tories claiming this one for the next election. We got Shamima Begum exiled done. When I seen the thread I was hoping for.... No..not the obvious. That she had opened an Only Fans page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Montpelier Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 I'm sure big Humza will be along soon enough to offer her asylum in this fine progressive country he's building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 I've made my thoughts about this woman clear on other threads. One thing is clear, the authorities, the courts and the media will know a hell of a lot more about what she did whilst living the dream with ISIS, than what any of us will know. She has lost every one of her court cases and as long as she's getting legal aid and the UK taxpayer is footing the bill, the lawyers (who are making a fortune out of this) will keep advising her to appeal. Why don't they just reveal what they know about her, well if they did, you can hear the human rights lawyers screaming that she'll never get a fair hearing anywhere again, then there's the question of having to reveal your sources of how you know what you know. I've said it before, if the caliphate was still in existence she'd still be living the dream and happily producing the next generation of ISIS fighters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 24 minutes ago, BlueRiver said: Conflating it like it was a wee trip to Spain. Seriously though, no sane person would do such a thing knowingly? It must've been a poorly worded post, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Montpelier Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 24 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said: Yep usual suspects . Always seems to be those with scottish nationalist credentials that empathise with terrorists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il Duce McTarkin Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 14 minutes ago, cannonfoda said: Currently working in a secure unit. It's an eye opener. Anyway - agree to disagree with majority on this subject but at least we've that option. Oh and f#£k the Huns tomorrow!!!! Going with 1-3 shankland hattrick I bet it is. There's probably more sympathy for your viewpoint than the participants of this thread would lead you to believe. The pitchfork wielding mob always make the most noise. A shankland hattrick tommorow would be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Initially I was all for her remaining in exile but there are so many unanswered questions and the legal arguments seem to be tailored to her case. I’ve no idea if we should accept her back or not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il Duce McTarkin Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 2 minutes ago, GinRummy said: Initially I was all for her remaining in exile but there are so many unanswered questions and the legal arguments seem to be tailored to her case. I’ve no idea if we should accept her back or not We should accept her back and send Aamer Anwar to Syria imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 6 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said: We should accept her back and send Aamer Anwar to Syria imo. 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionDJambo Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 21 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said: I've made my thoughts about this woman clear on other threads. One thing is clear, the authorities, the courts and the media will know a hell of a lot more about what she did whilst living the dream with ISIS, than what any of us will know. She has lost every one of her court cases and as long as she's getting legal aid and the UK taxpayer is footing the bill, the lawyers (who are making a fortune out of this) will keep advising her to appeal. Why don't they just reveal what they know about her, well if they did, you can hear the human rights lawyers screaming that she'll never get a fair hearing anywhere again, then there's the question of having to reveal your sources of how you know what you know. I've said it before, if the caliphate was still in existence she'd still be living the dream and happily producing the next generation of ISIS fighters. I remember a Home Secretary, whose name I can't remember, saying they had evidence of things she had been involved in, which if made public, would show why the government don't want her back in the UK. Maybe they think that the evidence isn't strong enough for a court of law, or that revealing the evidence would threaten the security of the source that it came from. She's almost certain to have seen some terrible acts of violence that ISIS carried out, whether she was directly involved or not. Would she be able to live safely from retribution in this country, after her release into UK society? Probably not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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