il Duce McTarkin Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 She should be sent to Rafah draped in a Hamas flag imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pap Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Roll her in a Union Jack and fire her from a ship in the Red Sea, into Iran and be done with it. Tomorrow's fish and chip wrapper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il Duce McTarkin Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 3 minutes ago, Pap said: Roll her in a Union Jack and fire her from a ship in the Red Sea, into Iran and be done with it. Tomorrow's fish and chip wrapper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pap Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 1 minute ago, il Duce McTarkin said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il Duce McTarkin Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 10 minutes ago, Pap said: The Ayatollahs would probably launch her right back, to be fair to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pap Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 14 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said: The Ayatollahs would probably launch her right back, to be fair to them. Then make her walk the plank or join the crew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malinga the Swinga Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 1 hour ago, Gundermann said: You could address any random point but the fact remains, she was a child. She was vulnerable and was, so it seems, abused because of that. She wasn't a child, she made a decision and has to take responsibility for that choice. This sympathy for her is misplaced and undeserved. Just because you have grievance against UK, you automatically side with any terrorist. She hasn't even admitted she was wrong, she still believes in the Islamic revolution so she can make her life in Syria, and islamic country and if that isn't to her liking, then so what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pap Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 6 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said: She wasn't a child, she made a decision and has to take responsibility for that choice. This sympathy for her is misplaced and undeserved. Just because you have grievance against UK, you automatically side with any terrorist. She hasn't even admitted she was wrong, she still believes in the Islamic revolution so she can make her life in Syria, and islamic country and if that isn't to her liking, then so what. You cant tell that to Guardian readers who think the UK is the real terrorist here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henrysmithsgloves Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 2 minutes ago, Pap said: You cant tell that to Guardian readers who think the UK is the real terrorist here. Divide and conquer,been using it for centuries,the English are experts 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manaliveits105 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 26 minutes ago, Pap said: You cant tell that to Guardian readers who think the UK is the real terrorist here. so do the jkb comrades - edgy af so they are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pap Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 52 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said: so do the jkb comrades - edgy af so they are Who are they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trotter Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 5 hours ago, Gundermann said: You could address any random point but the fact remains, she was a child. She was vulnerable and was, so it seems, abused because of that. Are you deliberately trying to be contrarian? Genuine question. You can argue the ins and outs of whether she was legally a child when she left, but let's not forget she wasn't just there for 20 minutes. She stayed and by all accounts supported the cause for several years. Many time for her to realize the error of her ways and try to come back, but she didn't. Correct decision. Let her stay in Syria. Or, bring her back and lock her up. Either or. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gundermann Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 7 hours ago, Malinga the Swinga said: She wasn't a child, she made a decision and has to take responsibility for that choice. This sympathy for her is misplaced and undeserved. Just because you have grievance against UK, you automatically side with any terrorist. She hasn't even admitted she was wrong, she still believes in the Islamic revolution so she can make her life in Syria, and islamic country and if that isn't to her liking, then so what. She was. Ask your Prince Andrew for the definition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gundermann Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 3 hours ago, trotter said: Are you deliberately trying to be contrarian? Genuine question. You can argue the ins and outs of whether she was legally a child when she left, but let's not forget she wasn't just there for 20 minutes. She stayed and by all accounts supported the cause for several years. Many time for her to realize the error of her ways and try to come back, but she didn't. Correct decision. Let her stay in Syria. Or, bring her back and lock her up. Either or. So, she was just a child on holiday and could just leave of her own volition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 4 hours ago, trotter said: Are you deliberately trying to be contrarian? Genuine question. You can argue the ins and outs of whether she was legally a child when she left, but let's not forget she wasn't just there for 20 minutes. She stayed and by all accounts supported the cause for several years. Many time for her to realize the error of her ways and try to come back, but she didn't. Correct decision. Let her stay in Syria. Or, bring her back and lock her up. Either or. You think once she was there she had the freedom to leave? 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i wish jj was my dad Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 12 hours ago, fabienleclerq said: Bit torn on the issue tbh, she's made her bed and wants to now come crawling back because they lost. She's vermin and I have no sympathy for her However, I'm not sure the precedent of making her stateless a healthy thing for us. What happens when they do it to the next person who's politics the government don't like? All a bit putin for me. That's probably where I am on it tbh. I want nothing to do with her and zero sympathy so am torn between she should be left to rot or locked away for the rest of her life. Without knowing all the facts, I'm inclined to think the courts know best but there is a doubt in my mind about where all of this could lead. The other part of this thread that is quite telling is the usual suspects jumping on our Muslim FM who as far as I know hasn't entered this debate but has directed humanitarian aid to Gaza so 1+1 = an assumption that he is on her side and the side of Islamic terrorists. It doesn't take much to bring out prejudice does it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabienleclerq Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 22 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said: That's probably where I am on it tbh. I want nothing to do with her and zero sympathy so am torn between she should be left to rot or locked away for the rest of her life. Without knowing all the facts, I'm inclined to think the courts know best but there is a doubt in my mind about where all of this could lead. The other part of this thread that is quite telling is the usual suspects jumping on our Muslim FM who as far as I know hasn't entered this debate but has directed humanitarian aid to Gaza so 1+1 = an assumption that he is on her side and the side of Islamic terrorists. It doesn't take much to bring out prejudice does it? Correct, as usual there's shades of grey. It's possible to care not a jot about Begum but worry about the precedent sent. Reminds me of the poem about the Nazis, goes something along the line of first they came for the jews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i wish jj was my dad Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 1 minute ago, fabienleclerq said: Correct, as usual there's shades of grey. It's possible to care not a jot about Begum but worry about the precedent sent. Reminds me of the poem about the Nazis, goes something along the line of first they came for the jews. Exactly. Jews, Muslims, refugees,trans, etc. All good sport until you are in the firing line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueRiver Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 14 hours ago, Gundermann said: You could address any random point but the fact remains, she was a child. She was vulnerable and was, so it seems, abused because of that. Yet the comparison with "going on holiday" was ridiculous. I don't quite get why you're not grasping that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trotter Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 5 hours ago, Gundermann said: So, she was just a child on holiday and could just leave of her own volition? Well by getting on a plane to go there in the first place shows she could Shirley? 4 hours ago, hughesie27 said: You think once she was there she had the freedom to leave? 🤣 Again, her choice to go there. She knew what she was getting into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 10 minutes ago, trotter said: Well by getting on a plane to go there in the first place shows she could Shirley? Again, her choice to go there. She knew what she was getting into. Aye but apparently wasn’t mature enough to make that choice and the consequences . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That thing you do Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 I'm fundamentally against people getting stripped of citizenship and left as a citizen of nowhere. Plus it's a slippery slope, you ban folk for one deed you can ban them for all sorts of others. She should be allowed back. Once back she would be sent to prison no doubt and would need lifetime monitoring and deradicalisation treatment. To make someone have no state when they made a choice aged 15 is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueRiver Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 2 hours ago, fabienleclerq said: Correct, as usual there's shades of grey. It's possible to care not a jot about Begum but worry about the precedent sent. Reminds me of the poem about the Nazis, goes something along the line of first they came for the jews. What is the precedent out of curiosity? She's far from the first to have her citizenship revoked and it's a power that the government have held since round about 1981? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueRiver Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/mar/18/three-british-bangladeshis-win-appeal-against-removal-of-uk-citizenship Just throwing this in here as a legal comparator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trotter Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 27 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said: Aye but apparently wasn’t mature enough to make that choice and the consequences . Indeed 22 minutes ago, That thing you do said: I'm fundamentally against people getting stripped of citizenship and left as a citizen of nowhere. Plus it's a slippery slope, you ban folk for one deed you can ban them for all sorts of others. She should be allowed back. Once back she would be sent to prison no doubt and would need lifetime monitoring and deradicalisation treatment. To make someone have no state when they made a choice aged 15 is wrong. But yet she continued with that choice for what, 3 years or so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trotter Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 25 minutes ago, That thing you do said: I'm fundamentally against people getting stripped of citizenship and left as a citizen of nowhere. Plus it's a slippery slope, you ban folk for one deed you can ban them for all sorts of others. She should be allowed back. Once back she would be sent to prison no doubt and would need lifetime monitoring and deradicalisation treatment. To make someone have no state when they made a choice aged 15 is wrong. Also, prison, monitoring, deradicalisation would be at the tax payers expense. You happy with being accountable for that vs. paying for things that are actually useful to society? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 2 minutes ago, trotter said: Indeed But yet she continued with that choice for what, 3 years or so? If the Isis caliphate was still in place, if they were successful, would she want to come back, I doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trotter Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: If the Isis caliphate was still in place, if they were successful, would she want to come back, I doubt it. Correct "I'm sorry your honour, but I was only affiliated with a terrorist group accountable for countless atrocities for 3 years, I was just a child'. Is a laughable argument Edited February 24 by trotter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 (edited) 4 minutes ago, trotter said: Correct "I'm sorry your honour, but I was only affiliated with a terrorist group accountable for countless atrocities for 3 years, I was just a child'. Is a laughable argument Almost as laughable as equating what she did with going on holiday to Spain!!! Edited February 24 by Dawnrazor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim_Duncan Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 8 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: If the Isis caliphate was still in place, if they were successful, would she want to come back, I doubt it. Sounded like a decent place. You get given a wife, a gun and nobody is moaning at you to shave if you let your stubble grow out. And throw folk off of roofs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 Just now, Jim_Duncan said: Sounded like a decent place. You get given a wife, a gun and nobody is moaning at you to shave if you let your stubble grow out. And throw folk off of roofs. Actually Jim, see when you put it like that.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim_Duncan Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 Just now, Dawnrazor said: Actually Jim, see when you put it like that.............. Catch you at the airport for a flight to “Turkey”, Dawn. The ISIS Beatles may be finished but maybe we could be the Daesh Simon and Garfunkel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 (edited) 1 minute ago, Jim_Duncan said: Catch you at the airport for a flight to “Turkey”, Dawn. The ISIS Beatles may be finished but maybe we could be the Daesh Simon and Garfunkel. 🤣👍 I'm in!! *Edit* Do we need to kidnap some Hibby's on the the way there? For the roof chucking likesy? Edited February 24 by Dawnrazor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim_Duncan Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 18 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: 🤣👍 I'm in!! *Edit* Do we need to kidnap some Hibby's on the the way there? For the roof chucking likesy? Mickey Weir? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 Just now, Jim_Duncan said: Mickey Weir? Aye, I'll bring Rat Boy and Sponge Bob Square Hied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indianajones Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 Made her bed with woman hating raping terrorist scumbags. Boohoo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 16 hours ago, fabienleclerq said: I hadn't no, if she finds herself in front of a sniper in the near future I wouldn't much either. Dangerous precedent to set making her stateless regardless. I have to say that I have no empathy for Begum, and she should pay for her crimes, but I do think that making her stateless was indeed very dangerous. We have to be responsible internationally as a nation and that includes being responsible for our citizens in cases like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 37 minutes ago, Jim_Duncan said: Catch you at the airport for a flight to “Turkey”, Dawn. The ISIS Beatles may be finished but maybe we could be the Daesh Simon and Garfunkel. The Daesh Chuckle Brothers more like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 Just now, redjambo said: The Daesh Chuckle Brothers more like. There's only one of them now red😥 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 54 minutes ago, trotter said: Also, prison, monitoring, deradicalisation would be at the tax payers expense. You happy with being accountable for that vs. paying for things that are actually useful to society? Hes an Indy supporter and we know what the are like about money...its money money money and its " free " too so whats a few million more to keep her in a British nick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 49 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: Almost as laughable as equating what she did with going on holiday to Spain!!! aye the apoligists are out on force today and yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 1 minute ago, JudyJudyJudy said: aye the apoligists are out on force today and yesterday. I still can't believe that's what he actually meant??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 Just now, Dawnrazor said: I still can't believe that's what he actually meant??? basically a few of them think she should not have had her british citizen revoked cause she didnt know what she was doing due to her age...aye right...they are the same ones happy with the Indy ref having 16 years old voting in it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 Anybody with either dual citizenship or anybody who even qualifies to gain citizenship with another nation is now in danger. The UK Government may decide that you no longer qualify for British citizenship and could strip you of it. Which leaves you at the mercy of the other nation who's citizenship you qualify for, but they are under no obligation to grant it, which is the case with this lassie. This then leaves you with no rights under any nation's laws. Which is why making people stateless is supposed to be illegal under international law. The crimes of this lassie can be endlessly debated, and people may point out that other persons with dual citizenship may have caused more harm to the UK than she did (Boris Johnson or Nigel Farage, for example) and people may point out that she's been singled out for special treatment as an example because the right-wing press have seized upon the story, but the fact remains that a very dangerous precedent has been set and everybody who holds more than one nationality is now at risk in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 4 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said: basically a few of them think she should not have had her british citizen revoked cause she didnt know what she was doing due to her age...aye right...they are the same ones happy with the Indy ref having 16 years old voting in it.... To be fair, she wasn't 16. Personally, I see both sides of the argument, she was technically a child, but I'm not going to spend anymore time than this giving a **** about someone who joined ISIS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 2 hours ago, trotter said: Again, her choice to go there. She knew what she was getting into. Nah, you criticised her for going and staying. Very easy to get there I'd imagine, less so if you change your mind and want to come home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim_Duncan Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 30 minutes ago, redjambo said: The Daesh Chuckle Brothers more like. Feeling left out? Join us and we can be the Al-Qaeda Bee Gees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gundermann Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 2 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said: Aye but apparently wasn’t mature enough to make that choice and the consequences . She was still a child and apparently brainwashed, trafficked and abused. That said, age 10 is the age of criminal responsibility AFAIK and if there's evidence of her committing crimes then she should be dealt with as you'd deal with any other criminal of a similar age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gundermann Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 31 minutes ago, Cade said: Anybody with either dual citizenship or anybody who even qualifies to gain citizenship with another nation is now in danger. The UK Government may decide that you no longer qualify for British citizenship and could strip you of it. Which leaves you at the mercy of the other nation who's citizenship you qualify for, but they are under no obligation to grant it, which is the case with this lassie. This then leaves you with no rights under any nation's laws. Which is why making people stateless is supposed to be illegal under international law. The crimes of this lassie can be endlessly debated, and people may point out that other persons with dual citizenship may have caused more harm to the UK than she did (Boris Johnson or Nigel Farage, for example) and people may point out that she's been singled out for special treatment as an example because the right-wing press have seized upon the story, but the fact remains that a very dangerous precedent has been set and everybody who holds more than one nationality is now at risk in the UK. Good point and one which I hadn't considered. Myself, and probably many of us here, have family members with dual citizenship - most of my pals have foreign girlfriends or spouses. It would be bad enough for someone in our family to do something daft and illegal (even nowhere near the scale of joining IS) and instead of just being dealt with by the justice system gets thrown into international limbo by having their UK citizenship removed. And this by the gang of spivs and crooks who currently govern us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgi1874 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 I'd put her on a massive catapult and fire her into the sea. PPV it and donate the dough to a homeless veterans charity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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