Dawnrazor Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 1 minute ago, hughesie27 said: I'm sure she knew she was joining up with a terrorist organisation and a rough notion of what that entails. But I reckon she was upsold on the actual lifestyle shall we say. Possibly, but all the information was out there as to what and where she was going, she knew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 43 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: Possibly, but all the information was out there as to what and where she was going, she knew. It was out there for adults who pay attention and have a balanced view of the world. Was it "out there" for a 15 year old girl who was clearly enthralled in community with a very different viewpoi t on that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il Duce McTarkin Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 48 minutes ago, John Findlay said: Her parents are getting an easy ride in all this. Not as easy a ride as all those Isis fighters got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Findlay Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 1 minute ago, hughesie27 said: It was out there for adults who pay attention and have a balanced view of the world. Was it "out there" for a 15 year old girl who was clearly enthralled in community with a very different viewpoi t on that? So should 16 years old be allowed to vote? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 5 minutes ago, hughesie27 said: It was out there for adults who pay attention and have a balanced view of the world. Was it "out there" for a 15 year old girl who was clearly enthralled in community with a very different viewpoi t on that? Yes, yes it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 17 minutes ago, John Findlay said: So should 16 years old be allowed to to vote? Sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 27 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said: Not as easy a ride as all those Isis fighters got. Ooft!😅 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trotter Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 (edited) 3 hours ago, hughesie27 said: I'm sure she knew she was joining up with a terrorist organisation and a rough notion of what that entails. But I reckon she was upsold on the actual lifestyle shall we say. Upsold on Jihad, beheading, setting people on fire, terroism, suidice bombings, torture and general horrific behaviour against people that don't believe in the same fictional book that you do? That's a belter, even for JKB Edited February 24 by trotter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malinga the Swinga Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 2 hours ago, il Duce McTarkin said: Not as easy a ride as all those Isis fighters got. Congratulations. Even through an alcoholic haze, that's a belter of a post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That thing you do Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 9 hours ago, trotter said: Correct "I'm sorry your honour, but I was only affiliated with a terrorist group accountable for countless atrocities for 3 years, I was just a child'. Is a laughable argument But that isnt the argument being made so not sure of your point. If you are happy with the idea people can be made stateless and citizens of nowhere then youll have to accept while it seems palatable for someone who fought for isis, it permits people to be made stateless for any other thing the government doesnt like. Its wrong and against the UN declaration of human rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trotter Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 1 minute ago, That thing you do said: But that isnt the argument being made so not sure of your point. If you are happy with the idea people can be made stateless and citizens of nowhere then youll have to accept while it seems palatable for someone who fought for isis, it permits people to be made stateless for any other thing the government doesnt like. Its wrong and against the UN declaration of human rights. It is the argument being made though. You are saying that you would be happy allowing someone in to the country, where your family and friends live, who actively joined a vicious terrorist organisation? Even under the assumption there would be a jail/rehabilitation term that you would be responsible for via taxes is acceptable to you? If so, you're a better man than I. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That thing you do Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 13 minutes ago, trotter said: It is the argument being made though. You are saying that you would be happy allowing someone in to the country, where your family and friends live, who actively joined a vicious terrorist organisation? Even under the assumption there would be a jail/rehabilitation term that you would be responsible for via taxes is acceptable to you? If so, you're a better man than I. Unless we plan on making folk like Ian Huntley stateless who killed two defenceless girls, shamima kept the bed warm of someone killing people, its accepted she didnt pull a trigger herself. But Noone is saying that, yet theyd be as if not more deserving of it. Its wrong to decide to pick and choose who you make stateless and its a joke folk moan about her being kept at taxpayers expense but never rally to kick Rose West out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Findlay Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 25 minutes ago, That thing you do said: Unless we plan on making folk like Ian Huntley stateless who killed two defenceless girls, shamima kept the bed warm of someone killing people, its accepted she didnt pull a trigger herself. But Noone is saying that, yet theyd be as if not more deserving of it. Its wrong to decide to pick and choose who you make stateless and its a joke folk moan about her being kept at taxpayers expense but never rally to kick Rose West out. I wouldn't have lost sleep if the likes of Huntley and the West's had been sentenced to death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 6 hours ago, hughesie27 said: My point is I doubt she would have been allowed to leave if she wanted to. I also doubt she knew what she was fully signing up for or did any research. I think a guy she fancied groomed her and promised her the world. And that doesn't make her innocent in any way. She was groomed and radicalised by older women at a local mosque. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henrysmithsgloves Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 15 minutes ago, FWJ said: She was groomed and radicalised by older women at a local mosque. Was she a dog groomer? I'll get my coat🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 2 hours ago, trotter said: Upsold on Jihad, beheading, setting people on fire, terroism, suidice bombings, torture and general horrific behaviour against people that don't believe in the same fictional book that you do? That's a belter, even for JKB Nah, upsold on moving over to live a life of leisure as the wife of some hard fancy man who will "protect" you and to never have to worry about actually having to work a day in your life in the shit hole of the UK/Council Estate England. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 2 hours ago, trotter said: If so, you're a better man than I. Glad we finally got to the bottom of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 (edited) 32 minutes ago, FWJ said: She was groomed and radicalised by older women at a local mosque. Okay. I'm not sure this is the "gotcha" you had planned for. The gender of her groomers is irrelevant. Do you understand what grooming means? Maybe I'm wrong and you are just correcting me on who guided her down the terrorist route. Edited February 25 by hughesie27 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i wish jj was my dad Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 It might be difficult for some to wrap their head around but it is possible to have zero sympathy / contempt for her as well as concern about the concept / implications of making people stateless. The cost to the tax payer shouldn't be a factor in decisions and I'm sure it wasn't. I hope she rots and on balance expect that the courts have got it right but there isn't enough information to be sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japan Jambo Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 On 23/02/2024 at 16:25, JudyJudyJudy said: Imagine if we were an Indy Scotland and she Scottish born ? She would be welcomed back by the usual suspects I expect Under 25, clean slate. Probably chuck in a house, laptop, bus pass and baby box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japan Jambo Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 On 24/02/2024 at 14:20, Gundermann said: She was still a child and apparently brainwashed, trafficked and abused. That said, age 10 is the age of criminal responsibility AFAIK and if there's evidence of her committing crimes then she should be dealt with as you'd deal with any other criminal of a similar age. She may have been a child when she went but that doesn't give her a free pass from there on in. Found this a hard but interesting listen for those wanting to do a deeper dive; https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/brand/p0cxg1j8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 I haven't changed my mind on this since the original posts were made. If she has committed a crime then bring her back and let justice take its course. I think stripping people of their nationality is just avoiding responsibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CostaJambo Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 She will get back in eventually. The woke brigade or whatever they are called will just keep shouting loudest until she does. It's the way of the world these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 Wonder if some people would have the same opinion on this if the individual was Jihadi John. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gundermann Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 3 hours ago, Japan Jambo said: She may have been a child when she went but that doesn't give her a free pass from there on in. Found this a hard but interesting listen for those wanting to do a deeper dive; https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/brand/p0cxg1j8 What about this: "age 10 is the age of criminal responsibility AFAIK and if there's evidence of her committing crimes then she should be dealt with as you'd deal with any other criminal of a similar age" says 'give her a free pass' to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gundermann Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 3 hours ago, CostaJambo said: She will get back in eventually. The woke brigade or whatever they are called will just keep shouting loudest until she does. It's the way of the world these days. Maybe if Begum tries to join IS again, she could take you with her? IS have no truck with woke brigades, I hear. You'd love it there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CostaJambo Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 4 minutes ago, Gundermann said: Maybe if Begum tries to join IS again, she could take you with her? IS have no truck with woke brigades, I hear. You'd love it there. I don't understand what your post even means but if you have deduced from mine that I am a supporter of either the girl, the woke brigade or IS (which I never even mentioned) I suggest you read it again. Maybe a bit slower this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTT Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/shamima-begum-shouldnt-have-lost-her-british-citizenship/ Didn't think I'd see Rees Mogg defending her. Lot of nuance to what he's saying as its obviously a bit deeper than just defending her, its more the idea that citizenship can be stripped in the manner it has. Inclined to agree with him TBH - It doesn't mean than she shouldn't face significant punishment on her return to the UK. Probably booting the hornets nest with this one, but what about British citizens that have went to go and fight for Israel. The same Israel currently engaged in god knows how many war crimes, collective punishment and probably crimes against humanity. Should these people also face similar punishment? There is certainly a not an unreasonable argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XB52 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 Don't really give a toss about her, but they are setting a very dangerous precedent by making someone stateless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joondalupjambo Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 (edited) 14 minutes ago, XB52 said: Don't really give a toss about her, but they are setting a very dangerous precedent by making someone stateless. Is she stateless until she applies for Bandagleshi citizenship and gets that due to her parentage? However if she is advised to tactically hold off applying for that citizenship, and keep pressing the UK with more legal arguments how long can that go on? Until the last appeal in the highest UK, EU court if we are still under that highest one or Court of Justice if that is the overall higher authority? Edited February 26 by joondalupjambo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 On 23/02/2024 at 18:57, Lord Montpelier said: We are well protected with her 1000s of miles away under the watchful eye of our fine intelligence services Honesty some of the nats on here might as well sign up for affiliate memberships with the green brigade. You’re absolutely ruined by the snp it’s hilarious. Why do you even live here? Tragic stuff man. Every post is mammies or Humza or nats or snp. Jesus man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 5 hours ago, hughesie27 said: Wonder if some people would have the same opinion on this if the individual was Jihadi John. That'll be a no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malinga the Swinga Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 5 hours ago, CostaJambo said: She will get back in eventually. The woke brigade or whatever they are called will just keep shouting loudest until she does. It's the way of the world these days. There's some, on here and in UK, would have her welcomed back with open arms as a heroic defender of her faith. Mind, they largely hate the UK and West and would see it burn, although not Scotland as we only contributed to history as we were 'oppressed by England'. Luckily, the overwhelming majority see through her, and her legal teams, supposition and are happy for her to live in a society where her core beliefs are more appropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malinga the Swinga Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 Just now, Jim_Duncan said: Bradford? Bravo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gundermann Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 2 hours ago, CostaJambo said: I don't understand what your post even means but if you have deduced from mine that I am a supporter of either the girl, the woke brigade or IS (which I never even mentioned) I suggest you read it again. Maybe a bit slower this time. Define 'woke brigades' for me please. Can you confirm that woke isn't an antonym of ignorance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il Duce McTarkin Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 (edited) 6 hours ago, Japan Jambo said: Probably chuck in a house, laptop, bus pass and baby box. Her three babies are already in a box, bud. 6 hours ago, davemclaren said: I haven't changed my mind on this since the original posts were made. If she has committed a crime then bring her back and let justice take its course. I think stripping people of their nationality is just avoiding responsibility. Agreed. 5 hours ago, hughesie27 said: Wonder if some people would have the same opinion on this if the individual was Jihadi John. If he hadn't already been fragged, the right thing would have been to bring him back, boot **** out of him for a bit, chuck away the key. Simple. 29 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said: There's some, on here and in UK, would have her welcomed back with open arms as a heroic defender of her faith. I've not seen a single post or poster on here saying anything even remotely close to what you are claiming. What a brass-necked ^***. Edited February 26 by il Duce McTarkin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 23 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said: If he hadn't already been fragged, the right thing would have been to bring him back, boot **** out of him for a bit, chuck away the key. Simple. Why bother bringing him back? Just remove his citizenship. Save a fortune likes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il Duce McTarkin Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 3 minutes ago, hughesie27 said: Why bother bringing him back? Just remove his citizenship. Save a fortune likes. I know you're being facetious, hughesie, but it is a reasonable topic for debate with valid arguments either way. At some point, though, we need to decide what sort of a society we want to be, and what sort of a society we want to protect. It's at that juncture that the financial implications of any decision making should run secondary to the moral and ethical standpoint we, as a collective, are striving to protect. It's up to each individual to decide what that standpoint is, of course, and the full spectrum of views are on show here. It's no surprise that the more extreme views are consistent with a general right-leaning intolerance that runs across multiple threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 17 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said: I know you're being facetious, hughesie, but it is a reasonable topic for debate with valid arguments either way. At some point, though, we need to decide what sort of a society we want to be, and what sort of a society we want to protect. It's at that juncture that the financial implications of any decision making should run secondary to the moral and ethical standpoint we, as a collective, are striving to protect. It's up to each individual to decide what that standpoint is, of course, and the full spectrum of views are on show here. It's no surprise that the more extreme views are consistent with a general right-leaning intolerance that runs across multiple threads. Basically Shamima Begum was so rubbish at being a terrorist that she's no even worth worrying about. She should have chopped off some heads if she really wanted to come home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il Duce McTarkin Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 5 minutes ago, hughesie27 said: She should have chopped off some heads if she really wanted to come home. With the added benefit of edging her towards the Amanda Knox category of pumpable murderous sociopath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i wish jj was my dad Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 45 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said: I know you're being facetious, hughesie, but it is a reasonable topic for debate with valid arguments either way. At some point, though, we need to decide what sort of a society we want to be, and what sort of a society we want to protect. It's at that juncture that the financial implications of any decision making should run secondary to the moral and ethical standpoint we, as a collective, are striving to protect. It's up to each individual to decide what that standpoint is, of course, and the full spectrum of views are on show here. It's no surprise that the more extreme views are consistent with a general right-leaning intolerance that runs across multiple threads. This is spot on btw. If anybody has said anything remotely sympathetic to her I have missed it and the suggestion that some on here, Scotland, Humza etc would welcome her back is insulting the debate. But while we are doing our best to remove the values of being a liberal, tolerant society that upholds the rule of law we still haven't quite taken that step yet. It is chilling how much extremism and intolerance are being accepted in political discourse and not just from Islamic fundamentalists either. This board is a useful window into different kinds of extremism and intolerance I am just about prepared to accept that the courts have enough information to make the right call on her status but the public interest has to look beyond how much it would cost to incarcerate / rehabilitate her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pap Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68655130 How many bids/chances does she have left? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pap Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 (edited) Double post Edited March 25 by Pap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 Ridiculous how many layers of appeal there are. Lawyers love cases like this, can keep dragging it out and coining it indefinitely. Be the European Court of Human Rights if the Supreme Court tell her to sling her Abu Hamza hook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henrysmithsgloves Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 12 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said: Ridiculous how many layers of appeal there are. Lawyers love cases like this, can keep dragging it out and coining it indefinitely. Be the European Court of Human Rights if the Supreme Court tell her to sling her Abu Hamza hook. And I was wondering,why do illegal immigrants want to come to blighty? I think you've answered that question for me 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 Is she doing Onlyfans yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 On 23/02/2024 at 18:16, hughesie27 said: If she is such a high threat to the UK due to her Terrorist connections. Surely she's a much smaller threat rotting in a UK jail that roaming about freely in Syria? Just on the facts of the case, she's in a camp with other ISIS people which is basically a prison. She's pretty restricted in what she can do. She could still go to jail there though that's less likely as Syria has other things to bother with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 On 23/02/2024 at 18:16, hughesie27 said: If she is such a high threat to the UK due to her Terrorist connections. Surely she's a much smaller threat rotting in a UK jail that roaming about freely in Syria? Just on the facts of the case, she's in a camp with other ISIS people which is basically a prison. She's pretty restricted in what she can do. She could still go to jail there though that's less likely as Syria has other things to bother with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ked Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 On 26/02/2024 at 18:16, il Duce McTarkin said: I know you're being facetious, hughesie, but it is a reasonable topic for debate with valid arguments either way. At some point, though, we need to decide what sort of a society we want to be, and what sort of a society we want to protect. It's at that juncture that the financial implications of any decision making should run secondary to the moral and ethical standpoint we, as a collective, are striving to protect. It's up to each individual to decide what that standpoint is, of course, and the full spectrum of views are on show here. It's no surprise that the more extreme views are consistent with a general right-leaning intolerance that runs across multiple threads. I'd say I'm right leaning. But totally agree on your sentiment on this topic. It's also worth remembering she was a UK citizen and a child arguably groomed. Our responsibility our citizen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Brown Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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