jr ewing Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 More mobile than Snodgrass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooks Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 1 minute ago, Fozzyonthefence said: How many assists has he had? I dont know ? Assists are heavily dependant on the player pulling the trigger though , and added to that often it is his forward pass that starts the move and not the penultimate pass he makes plenty good forward passes and anyone can go check this out for themselves by simply googling the highlights of our games Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 53 minutes ago, lost in space said: You make a good point - that the forwards are often not in space or are mot making runs. However, too often, I don't think Beni even looks up to see what is available - just knocks it back, without looking. This can be ok - as the receiving player is facing forward but there have been too many times, when Beni could have turned and moved forward. maybe it’s a bit of both mate. 👍🏻 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 (edited) For a CM he's clearly not very creative and doesn't make many key passes. He's improved on creating expected assists though (presumably let down by whomever he's passed to). None of our CMs do this well, or enough. Devlin probably has the best output by sheer determination. Beni is a lovely player though, one of my favourites. He's top notch at what he does well. Edited January 16 by Taffin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts1975 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 19 minutes ago, Sooks said: I dont know ? Assists are heavily dependant on the player pulling the trigger though , and added to that often it is his forward pass that starts the move and not the penultimate pass he makes plenty good forward passes and anyone can go check this out for themselves by simply googling the highlights of our games The amount of times you see Beni looking for the forward pass, but at times, it isn't on, and because no-one has got themselves into space to take the pass, or where their marker is tight on them, the pass isn't on. That's not directly on him. It took him a while to get back to his original form, and understandably so, from his injury, so I almost sympathise with those who seem to have forgot why everyone was gushing over his play, pre-injury The other thread on him turning back and then moving forward in tight areas also gives a good overall summary of what he is about. Great player. I simply scratch my head if any criticism is aimed toward him. We are lucky to have him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooks Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 1 minute ago, Hearts1975 said: The amount of times you see Beni looking for the forward pass, but at times, it isn't on, and because no-one has got themselves into space to take the pass, or where their marker is tight on them, the pass isn't on. That's not directly on him. It took him a while to get back to his original form, and understandably so, from his injury, so I almost sympathise with those who seem to have forgot why everyone was gushing over his play, pre-injury The other thread on him turning back and then moving forward in tight areas also gives a good overall summary of what he is about. Great player. I simply scratch my head if any criticism is aimed toward him. We are lucky to have him. Yeah it is a bit bizarre . I think it is just a case of an opinion is formed and then people dont bother questioning it and just ignore the many bits that disprove the reputation and fixate on the handful of times a player does do something that triggers their confirmation bias . You see it with a lot of players Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzyonthefence Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 33 minutes ago, Sooks said: I dont know ? Assists are heavily dependant on the player pulling the trigger though , and added to that often it is his forward pass that starts the move and not the penultimate pass he makes plenty good forward passes and anyone can go check this out for themselves by simply googling the highlights of our games A 3 minute Sportscene highlights package is pretty unlikely to show any / many Beni forward passes and I can’t be arsed checking but feel free if you’re at a loose end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooks Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Just now, Fozzyonthefence said: A 3 minute Sportscene highlights package is pretty unlikely to show any / many Beni forward passes and I can’t be arsed checking but feel free if you’re at a loose end. Highlights concentrate on chances and goals . The very first and only one I looked at had him setting up a player to assist for a goal vs St Johnstone with a good forward pass . It is a myth mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr ewing Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Does better on the bigger pitches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmaroon Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 22 minutes ago, Sooks said: I dont know ? Assists are heavily dependant on the player pulling the trigger though , and added to that often it is his forward pass that starts the move and not the penultimate pass he makes plenty good forward passes and anyone can go check this out for themselves by simply googling the highlights of our games Absolutely spot on. Beni's first objective is to pass to a Hearts player and, it can also depend on the state of the game. He passes plenty forward but you won't see him launching aimless punts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzyonthefence Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 2 minutes ago, Sooks said: Highlights concentrate on chances and goals . The very first and only one I looked at had him setting up a player to assist for a goal vs St Johnstone with a good forward pass . It is a myth mate Is this not the confirmation bias you keep going on about?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooks Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Just now, Fozzyonthefence said: Is this not the confirmation bias you keep going on about?! Not when the point I am arguing is correct . If I was wrong ( I am not wrong ) then it would be confirmation bias . What this is is confirmation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooks Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 2 minutes ago, colinmaroon said: Absolutely spot on. Beni's first objective is to pass to a Hearts player and, it can also depend on the state of the game. He passes plenty forward but you won't see him launching aimless punts. Correct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts1975 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 4 minutes ago, Sooks said: Yeah it is a bit bizarre . I think it is just a case of an opinion is formed and then people dont bother questioning it and just ignore the many bits that disprove the reputation and fixate on the handful of times a player does do something that triggers their confirmation bias . You see it with a lot of players That's probably fair. I know we have analysed to death the lack of forward passing from midfield, leading on to the player type, but sometimes I just get an inkling that we just focus on how many times the ball is played forward, as opposed to watching how many times, up top, the movement (off the ball) centrally, and in wide areas, has been good enough, so the pass can be clearly made by the player For balance, there are times when the pass is glaringly obvious, and not made, so there is that. Specifically on Beni though, I just feel that as the movement improves, Beni would be one of the players, who would most probably take full advantage of it. I hope to god he signs this new contract. Would be massive for us. It's just being overshadowed in terms of the Shanks stuff, which I get, but at the same time, its still vital for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ked Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Worth an extension. 100% . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooks Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 2 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said: That's probably fair. I know we have analysed to death the lack of forward passing from midfield, leading on to the player type, but sometimes I just get an inkling that we just focus on how many times the ball is played forward, as opposed to watching how many times, up top, the movement (off the ball) centrally, and in wide areas, has been good enough, so the pass can be clearly made by the player For balance, there are times when the pass is glaringly obvious, and not made, so there is that. Specifically on Beni though, I just feel that as the movement improves, Beni would be one of the players, who would most probably take full advantage of it. I hope to god he signs this new contract. Would be massive for us. It's just being overshadowed in terms of the Shanks stuff, which I get, but at the same time, its still vital for us. Totally agree with all of this . You clearly watch what is happening on the pitch and form your opinions based on that . An old fashioned concept but a pretty reliable one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Striker Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 I like Beni. He's not flashy or a standout, but somehow we seem to just be a more solid team when he's on the pitch. Has anyone else noticed how absurdly skinny his legs are though ? 😄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzyonthefence Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 52 minutes ago, Sooks said: Not when the point I am arguing is correct . If I was wrong ( I am not wrong ) then it would be confirmation bias . What this is is confirmation It’s not confirmation, it’s one example out of hundreds of passes. I could just as easily give you one example of a backwards or sideways pass and that wouldn’t be confirmation either. You don’t have the stats to back up your argument any more than the posters arguing the opposite from you do. Maybe next game we should just count the number of passes he makes and how many are forward but I can’t be arsed analysing 90 minutes like that and I doubt you can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooks Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 3 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said: It’s not confirmation, it’s one example out of hundreds of passes. I could just as easily give you one example of a backwards or sideways pass and that wouldn’t be confirmation either. You don’t have the stats to back up your argument any more than the posters arguing the opposite from you do. Maybe next game we should just count the number of passes he makes and how many are forward but I can’t be arsed analysing 90 minutes like that and I doubt you can. Last time I tried to do that I got to 70 minutes rewatching the Rangers semi final when he was being panned as slow , negative and giving the ball away . Turned out he was none of those things in that time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudiscoresagain Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Beni is a great player for us. He very rarely loses possession and when he occasionally does, he invariably wins it back. I wish we had more like him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovecraft Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 1 hour ago, Lone Striker said: I like Beni. He's not flashy or a standout, but somehow we seem to just be a more solid team when he's on the pitch. Has anyone else noticed how absurdly skinny his legs are though ? 😄 Anytime I watch him, I'm like WTF are you doing.... Then he comes away with the ball and was always in complete control. I will be gutted if he leaves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feedthefox Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 1 hour ago, Lone Striker said: I like Beni. He's not flashy or a standout, but somehow we seem to just be a more solid team when he's on the pitch. Has anyone else noticed how absurdly skinny his legs are though ? 😄 and he runs like he's permanently about to fall over. That aside he's very good at what he does and worthy of a new contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmaroon Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 1 hour ago, Fozzyonthefence said: It’s not confirmation, it’s one example out of hundreds of passes. I could just as easily give you one example of a backwards or sideways pass and that wouldn’t be confirmation either. You don’t have the stats to back up your argument any more than the posters arguing the opposite from you do. Maybe next game we should just count the number of passes he makes and how many are forward but I can’t be arsed analysing 90 minutes like that and I doubt you can. Here's an easy one. Count how many misplaced passes Beni makes. Won't have to concentrate much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyCant Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 (edited) 10 hours ago, Rudiscoresagain said: Beni is a great player for us. He very rarely loses possession and when he occasionally does, he invariably wins it back. I wish we had more like him. Beni is great at winning the ball and re-cycling it or re-starting. He’s a defensive midfielder with virtually zero attacking qualities. He can’t shoot. He very rarely delivers a killer pass and he hardly ever moves forward 20-30 yards with the ball. He doesn’t defend the box either and gets lost at defensive set pieces. Loses his man frequently Good at what he does. Very good in fact, but his skill set is limited. Prefer him to stay and add to his game. not bothered if he leaves and we bring in someone with a bit more threat. Edited January 17 by JimmyCant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy T Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 I’ll stress this is only my opinion many will disagree but I question Beni’s character, a very good player for sure but I’m not sure about his commitment at times. He seemed to take a lot longer than others to return from that injury and missing the last two games again was a bit of a mystery given what Naismith had said. It’s his career and if he thinks he needs rest that’s up to him but he’s such a key player for us when he’s missing it’s very noticeable. Definitely strikes me as the type should he sign a pre contract he’ll not give us his all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 I'm just going to put this out there and expect a bit of grief but folk must have noticed he's become a bit of a shitebag since his injury. Not the guy you want fighting for a 50/50 ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts007 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 6 minutes ago, GinRummy said: I'm just going to put this out there and expect a bit of grief but folk must have noticed he's become a bit of a shitebag since his injury. Not the guy you want fighting for a 50/50 ball. less of a shitebag than McKay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzyonthefence Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 1 hour ago, Rudy T said: I’ll stress this is only my opinion many will disagree but I question Beni’s character, a very good player for sure but I’m not sure about his commitment at times. He seemed to take a lot longer than others to return from that injury and missing the last two games again was a bit of a mystery given what Naismith had said. It’s his career and if he thinks he needs rest that’s up to him but he’s such a key player for us when he’s missing it’s very noticeable. Definitely strikes me as the type should he sign a pre contract he’ll not give us his all. We’ve done fine without him. Still get plenty clean sheets when he doesn’t play and he’s very much a defensive midfielder so I don’t really think he is a big miss, I know many will disagree though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzyonthefence Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 1 hour ago, JimmyCant said: Beni is great at winning the ball and re-cycling it or re-starting. He’s a defensive midfielder with virtually zero attacking qualities. He can’t shoot. He very rarely delivers a killer pass and he hardly ever moves forward 20-30 yards with the ball. He doesn’t defend the box either and gets lost at defensive set pieces. Loses his man frequently Good at what he does. Very good in fact, but his skill set is limited. Prefer him to stay and add to his game. not bothered if he leaves and we bring in someone with a bit more threat. I agree with all of that and happy if he stays and hopefully can improve on some of his weaknesses but really not bothered if he leaves. I’d much rather keep Devlin of the two but it would be good to see the two of them play together again, especially if we can get someone decent to play just in front of them. We’ll be getting accused of confirmation bias any minute now though………. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazo Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 **** knows what is going on here but Beni is top player who yes has struggled a little to get back to the levels he was at. We’ve seen glimpses and I’m sure it will all come together again and consistency will follow. Who the **** cares about his forward passing or shooting, it is completely irrelevant to his game. If he had those attributes added to his game he certainly wouldn’t be playing for hearts. A fit in form Beni would be an outstanding player to have in our team. I might start a thread and slaughter Shankland for being shite in goals. 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzyonthefence Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 11 hours ago, colinmaroon said: Here's an easy one. Count how many misplaced passes Beni makes. Won't have to concentrate much. Here’s a harder one - count how many are more than 5 / 10 yards and not backwards or sideways. Or how many lead to assists / XGs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyCant Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 8 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said: I agree with all of that and happy if he stays and hopefully can improve on some of his weaknesses but really not bothered if he leaves. I’d much rather keep Devlin of the two but it would be good to see the two of them play together again, especially if we can get someone decent to play just in front of them. We’ll be getting accused of confirmation bias any minute now though………. Devlin is limited as well of course. More aggressive and a bit more forward thinking than Beni but not as tidy on the ball. I wish we didn’t feel we have to play with 2 sitters most of the time but that seems to be our default and Beni and Devlin are the best pairing we have in that fairly limited role IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
db211833 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 Some stunning opinions on this thread. We will struggle to get a replacement defensive midfielder of his quality at our level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pans Jambo Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 If folk are slagging off Beni's ability (yes we all know he's not a 100Mtr sprinter), then you should maybe take up watching another sport as football is not for you. He's our best midfielder by a country mile and if he leaves, I don't think we could replace him easily. His passing ability is unbelievable. Opposition struggle to get the ball off him and they often have 2 or more players pressing him. He's class! Speed is missing from his game but I can put up with that as the rest of his game is incredible. I hope he stays and we get a top quality attacking midfielder to play alongside him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May98 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 Beni is a fantastic footballer and will only get better. Signing him on a new contract would be an outrageous bit of business for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts007 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 30 minutes ago, Dazo said: **** knows what is going on here but Beni is top player who yes has struggled a little to get back to the levels he was at. We’ve seen glimpses and I’m sure it will all come together again and consistency will follow. Who the **** cares about his forward passing or shooting, it is completely irrelevant to his game. If he had those attributes added to his game he certainly wouldn’t be playing for hearts. A fit in form Beni would be an outstanding player to have in our team. I might start a thread and slaughter Shankland for being shite in goals. 😂 Yup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May98 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 15 minutes ago, db211833 said: Some stunning opinions on this thread. We will struggle to get a replacement defensive midfielder of his quality at our level. There's absolutely no chance we will get a replacement of similar quality let alone struggle imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Mikey Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 7 minutes ago, db211833 said: Some stunning opinions on this thread. We will struggle to get a replacement defensive midfielder of his quality at our level. Folks are speculating about his future (with some claiming insight as to what he's told the club) whilst casting aspertions on his character, his likelyhood of easing off, his head being 'turned' (in spite of zero suitors), his future fitness, his abilities - moreso his limitations, how he wouldn't be missed, and so on, and so forth. All of this with nothing concrete to go on. Any casual and neutral reader could be forgiven for wondering why any other club would be in the least bit interested in such a player. Silly season or what? I wouldn't be the least surprised should he end up staying with us with an agreement suitable to all involved. That's me off to pen a 'We Love Beni' ditti. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts007 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 2 hours ago, JimmyCant said: Beni is great at winning the ball and re-cycling it or re-starting. He’s a defensive midfielder with virtually zero attacking qualities. He can’t shoot. He very rarely delivers a killer pass and he hardly ever moves forward 20-30 yards with the ball. He doesn’t defend the box either and gets lost at defensive set pieces. Loses his man frequently Good at what he does. Very good in fact, but his skill set is limited. Prefer him to stay and add to his game. not bothered if he leaves and we bring in someone with a bit more threat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzyonthefence Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 46 minutes ago, JimmyCant said: Devlin is limited as well of course. More aggressive and a bit more forward thinking than Beni but not as tidy on the ball. I wish we didn’t feel we have to play with 2 sitters most of the time but that seems to be our default and Beni and Devlin are the best pairing we have in that fairly limited role IMO A clone combining the best parts of Devlin and Beni would be playing at a much higher level than Hearts! We just have to hope that they can both improve on the weak areas of their game, although I suspect Beni won’t be here next summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 On 16/01/2024 at 08:40, Skacelsid said: Would not be offering new contracts to Beni or Halkett. If they can they prove fitness long term, have returned to previous levels and help us to secure a third place, then the end of the season is time to negotiate, neither is going to be in demand at this time. More so Halkett as we now appear to playing a higher line and his lack of pace may be shown up. They could agree contracts and then end up side lined for a year or god forbid with career ended recurrence. For which the club would be insured Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 32 minutes ago, May98 said: Beni is a fantastic footballer and will only get better. Signing him on a new contract would be an outrageous bit of business for us. This 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyRightPeg Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 2 hours ago, GinRummy said: I'm just going to put this out there and expect a bit of grief but folk must have noticed he's become a bit of a shitebag since his injury. Not the guy you want fighting for a 50/50 ball. Wouldn't you have doubts after being out for a year and a half? Look at Josh Campbell, Beni skins him and he tries to do him knee high. I wouldn't say shitebag. He's the bravest player we have in the team in terms of taking the ball in tight areas and moving it on. That's his job in the team, and nobody at the club comes close to doing it like he does. If we lose him, it leaves a gaping hole in our midfield again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyRightPeg Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 2 minutes ago, Thomaso said: For which the club would be insured Not necessarily. I work in that area, and career ending insurance costs an absolute fortune. It's all based on what the club value the player at, contract etc. Also, add to it if he had a career ending cruciate injury on the same knee, it'd classed as a pre-existing condition so will in all likelihood be excluded. The league might have something in place, but it won't come close to a specific policy for a player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmaroon Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 1 hour ago, db211833 said: Some stunning opinions on this thread. We will struggle to get a replacement defensive midfielder of his quality at our level. We won't!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
db211833 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 1 hour ago, Wee Mikey said: Folks are speculating about his future (with some claiming insight as to what he's told the club) whilst casting aspertions on his character, his likelyhood of easing off, his head being 'turned' (in spite of zero suitors), his future fitness, his abilities - moreso his limitations, how he wouldn't be missed, and so on, and so forth. All of this with nothing concrete to go on. Any casual and neutral reader could be forgiven for wondering why any other club would be in the least bit interested in such a player. Silly season or what? I wouldn't be the least surprised should he end up staying with us with an agreement suitable to all involved. That's me off to pen a 'We Love Beni' ditti. It's mental, I think some folk go to games with their eyes closed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted January 17 Author Share Posted January 17 (edited) 2 hours ago, db211833 said: Some stunning opinions on this thread. We will struggle to get a replacement defensive midfielder of his quality at our level. Agreed, he's the most complete midfielder outside the OF. **** knows what people see when at the football, I'm sure many want a young Lad running about daft and giving his all over a composed, technically competent midfielder who can actually midfield. Edited January 17 by Bazzas right boot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyRightPeg Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 5 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said: Agreed, he's the most complete midfielder outside the OF. **** knows what people see when at the football, I'm sure many want a young Lad running about daft and giving his all over a composed, technically competent midfielder who can actually midfield. That's exactly it. It's cause he isn't blood and snotters that certain, I'll call them old fashioned individuals don't appreciate him. It's no coincidence that since he got a solid run of games we climbed the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Beni of Gorgie Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 Going to give some the benefit of the doubt, they are bored and just letting their brain fart all over the internet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 19 minutes ago, RustyRightPeg said: That's exactly it. It's cause he isn't blood and snotters that certain, I'll call them old fashioned individuals don't appreciate him. It's no coincidence that since he got a solid run of games we climbed the table. Spot on the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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