*** Official Motherwell Vs Heart of Midlothian Match Thread ***

[One five]

Sibbick would be a sub at best (only because we have no RB) he is simply not good enough to play at this level Imo.

[NaturalOrder74]

Honestly two of them are nothing without the SFA 

[NaturalOrder74]

Just now, NaturalOrder74 said:

Honestly two of them are nothing without the SFA 

wrong thread I apologise 

[SMJ_1874]

8 hours ago, Deviskan said:

At this stage, I’d honestly not be surprised to see Boyce, Halliday, Haring, Forrest, and Sibbick get extensions again.

Every one you’ve mentioned need to go imo. I’d also add Beni, Grant and Clark to that list. We need far better players than that calibre if we’re going to be serious about getting 3rd place never mind challenging for the top two.  

[Gundermann]

15 hours ago, Deviskan said:

Indeed, why the hell would you start Boyce…a guy that struggles to score, over the main goalscorer in our team.

 

Boyce is a poor man’s Shankland…and is one of a number of players that needs removed from the club if we’re to progress.

 

[Skacelsid]

Devlin needs to be starting this and should have started on Sunday. He does not fit our slow passing rigid formation " model " as basically he wants to go where the action is and get stuck in. Instead of trying to tie him down and mould him into something he is not, give him freedom  to get about the park and use him to our advantage. He is no Colin Cameron but that is how he should be used and get him further up the park arriving in the box. If encouraged to he will get goals. IMO. Our midfield is too passive, static and create very little ( basically extra defenders ), probably as instructed by the numpties in the dugout with their tablets and statistics. At least Cammy plays for the Jersey.

[Dazo]

14 minutes ago, Skacelsid said:

Devlin needs to be starting this and should have started on Sunday. He does not fit our slow passing rigid formation " model " as basically he wants to go where the action is and get stuck in. Instead of trying to tie him down and mould him into something he is not, give him freedom  to get about the park and use him to our advantage. He is no Colin Cameron but that is how he should be used and get him further up the park arriving in the box. If encouraged to he will get goals. IMO. Our midfield is too passive, static and create very little ( basically extra defenders ), probably as instructed by the numpties in the dugout with their tablets and statistics. At least Cammy plays for the Jersey.

Devlin doesn’t suit any model that involves passing. His distribution for an international player is ****ing embarrassing. 

[Deviskan]

3 hours ago, Gundermann said:

 

I tend to find posters that reply with images are generally simpletons.

 

Perhaps if you articulated a response it would be helpful…

 

Liam ‘17 games in 23/24 and 1 goal’ Boyce,..please help me understand why he should start before Shankland (18 games and 8 goals)?

 

Shankland is a far better version of Boyce, they both play similar roles and have similar styles.

 

Boyce was going downhill rapidly before his injury and since his return he’s continued in the same non-scoring, slow…holding onto the ball WAY too long whilst trying to dribble past multiple opponents before eventually losing the ball way.

 

[The Treasurer]

1 hour ago, Deviskan said:

I tend to find posters that reply with images are generally simpletons.

 

Perhaps if you articulated a response it would be helpful…

 

Liam ‘17 games in 23/24 and 1 goal’ Boyce,..please help me understand why he should start before Shankland (18 games and 8 goals)?

 

Shankland is a far better version of Boyce, they both play similar roles and have similar styles.

 

Boyce was going downhill rapidly before his injury and since his return he’s continued in the same non-scoring, slow…holding onto the ball WAY too long whilst trying to dribble past multiple opponents before eventually losing the ball way.

 

I think Boyce holds onto the ball because he is intelligent enough to play a worthwhile pass, but the trouble is no one makes the run or makes themselves available for that pass 

[Deviskan]

3 minutes ago, The Treasurer said:

I think Boyce holds onto the ball because he is intelligent enough to play a worthwhile pass, but the trouble is no one makes the run or makes themselves available for that pass 

Sorry, completely disagree…he dithers on the ball, holds onto it too long and tries to dribble past opponents thinking he has Messi-like abilities.

 

He hardly scores (and needs a LOT of chances to do so)…he occasionally plays nice lay offs, but nowhere near the level Shankland does.

[GorgieFifeLife]

4 hours ago, Skacelsid said:

Devlin needs to be starting this and should have started on Sunday. He does not fit our slow passing rigid formation " model " as basically he wants to go where the action is and get stuck in. Instead of trying to tie him down and mould him into something he is not, give him freedom  to get about the park and use him to our advantage. He is no Colin Cameron but that is how he should be used and get him further up the park arriving in the box. If encouraged to he will get goals. IMO. Our midfield is too passive, static and create very little ( basically extra defenders ), probably as instructed by the numpties in the dugout with their tablets and statistics. At least Cammy plays for the Jersey.

Nah Devlin is not the answer.  Naismith doesn’t trust him and rightly so.  Continually gives away possession.

[TheBigO]

19 hours ago, Ricardo Quaresma said:

This guy???

 

 

[Ricardo Quaresma]

49 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

This guy???

 

 

 

Dunno what he looks like but definitely not him 😉

[Agentjambo]

Does he still get sacked if we win?

[Thomaso]

On 06/11/2023 at 20:09, Muppetboy said:

Goes against all I am as a hearts fan but for the greater good and an inevitable sacking, I'd take a loss right now. Change is needed now in order to get back on track for 3rd place

I prefer 3 points to get us back on track.

[Cruyff]

2 hours ago, Agentjambo said:

Does he still get sacked if we win?

Couldn't care if we win 10-0, he should still be sacked because it's just not going to turn around and we're not finishing 3rd with Naismith incharge. Should've been punted weeks ago. 

[Gundermann]

9 hours ago, Deviskan said:

I tend to find posters that reply with images are generally simpletons.

 

Perhaps if you articulated a response it would be helpful…

 

Liam ‘17 games in 23/24 and 1 goal’ Boyce,..please help me understand why he should start before Shankland (18 games and 8 goals)?

 

Shankland is a far better version of Boyce, they both play similar roles and have similar styles.

 

Boyce was going downhill rapidly before his injury and since his return he’s continued in the same non-scoring, slow…holding onto the ball WAY too long whilst trying to dribble past multiple opponents before eventually losing the ball way.

 

 

[Bickfest]

1 hour ago, Thomaso said:

I prefer 3 points to get us back on track.

This

[Cruyff]

9 minutes ago, Gundermann said:

 

[pobster22]

Will this be a pay at the gate?? as I can't make it to tynecastle to collect..

[pettigrewsstylist]

Sat morn will bring renewed fresh hope. In reality, more laboured huff n puff with no cutting edge and let down by bampot decision making expected and leaving with nowt. 

Hoping Tagawa is only couple of weeks away from cutting up  the HT oranges now. 

 

[Ricardo Quaresma]

5 hours ago, pobster22 said:

Will this be a pay at the gate?? as I can't make it to tynecastle to collect..

 

IIRC there usually is PATG available there

 

Maybe someone can confirm that this one is though 👍

[Jambos_1874]

This really is a must win match. They kind of all are recently, but this one feels like it will really set the direction ot travel of our season. We've lucked out a bit by our closest competitors broadly being as shite as we've been, but lose this and Motherwell go above us and our confidence will nosedive further. Maximum points followed by a victory in the next home game is the only acceptable outcome.

[Horatio Caine]

11 hours ago, Cruyff said:

Couldn't care if we win 10-0, he should still be sacked because it's just not going to turn around and we're not finishing 3rd with Naismith incharge. Should've been punted weeks ago. 

Oh well, that'll be that then.

[Debut 4]

I get a horrible vibe just now similar to the time before Stendel came in. 
 

There’s no ire in this team when we need it.  You can just see Saturday in your head. We try to play a controlled start with not much happening then slowly Motherwell will sense this and push for a breakthrough.  
 

Even if that did happen, the point is I think we lack a response in us. That’s where the ire has to come in.  We need it from the start in truth though but our players aren’t built that way it seems, maybe one or two, however we seem to slip too easily into losing concentration.  
 

Important moment for Hearts to make it two league wins in a row and put a positive spin on things.  
 

 

 

Edited November 9, 2023 by Debut 4

[Bickfest]

1 hour ago, Debut 4 said:

I get a horrible vibe just now similar to the time before Stendel came in. 
 

There’s no ire in this team when we need it.  You can just see Saturday in your head. We try to play a controlled start with not much happening then slowly Motherwell will sense this and push for a breakthrough.  
 

Even if that did happen, the point is I think we lack a response in us. That’s where the ire has to come in.  We need it from the start in truth though but our players aren’t built that way it seems, maybe one or two, however we seem to slip too easily into losing concentration.  
 

Important moment for Hearts to make it two league wins in a row and put a positive spin on things.  
 

 

 

I get what you're saying, but I feel that, rather than a lack of ire, we are badly missing an inspirational leader on the park. Someone who will lift his colleagues, leading from the front, encouraging, motivating, demanding maximum effort and getting an enthusiastic reaction. In short, a Steven Pressley, Marius Zaliukas, Paul Hartley, Colin Cameron etc. We haven't had such a player for a while. I have a sneaky feeling that the Hoff may be such a character but he's not ready yet. And much as Shanks is a great striker, I don't see him as an inspirational leader.

[Debut 4]

2 minutes ago, Bickfest said:

I get what you're saying, but I feel that, rather than a lack of ire, we are badly missing an inspirational leader on the park. Someone who will lift his colleagues, leading from the front, encouraging, motivating, demanding maximum effort and getting an enthusiastic reaction. In short, a Steven Pressley, Marius Zaliukas, Paul Hartley, Colin Cameron etc. We haven't had such a player for a while. I have a sneaky feeling that the Hoff may be such a character but he's not ready yet. And much as Shanks is a great striker, I don't see him as an inspirational leader.

Agree , mate.  It can take just a couple of players with those minerals that others react to.  We certainly don’t seem to have a love-hate figure in the team.  

[HopeDiouf]

1 hour ago, Debut 4 said:

I get a horrible vibe just now similar to the time before Stendel came in. 
 

There’s no ire in this team when we need it.  You can just see Saturday in your head. We try to play a controlled start with not much happening then slowly Motherwell will sense this and push for a breakthrough.  
 

Even if that did happen, the point is I think we lack a response in us. That’s where the ire has to come in.  We need it from the start in truth though but our players aren’t built that way it seems, maybe one or two, however we seem to slip too easily into losing concentration.  
 

Important moment for Hearts to make it two league wins in a row and put a positive spin on things.  
 

 

 

Thats the worst bit about this group of imposters for me. They are shitebags. When it really matters, they all hide in their shell.

[Jim Panzee]

On 07/11/2023 at 08:18, Valois No1 said:

Been said before a million times, but with our wages some 2/3 x more than Motherwell's then anything other than a win is simply not acceptable and Naismith should be sacked. Motherwell will scrap for their lives and in turn so should we.

 

The slogan 'Blood doesn't show on a maroon jersey' has long gone from mind and I demand it be back from the top (boardroom) down.

 

HHGH

it's also been explained a billion times before that 2 x 3 times the wage is not the gulf all teams have with players of the bigot brothers on 8-10x the wage.

 

broadly speaking it should provide a slight advantage and over recent seasons it's seen us promoted and 3rd, 4th in the top flight - who knows this season, but hopefully 3rd again.

 

some good stats from the excellent London Hearts site showing historically we lose or draw more than we win v the mothers.

 

Games	343
Wins	165
Draws	71
Losses	106
Abandoned	1
Win %	48.10%
Draw %	20.70%
Loss %	30.90%

 

 

[PapaShango]

9 minutes ago, HopeDiouf said:

Thats the worst bit about this group of imposters for me. They are shitebags. When it really matters, they all hide in their shell.

Yeah as soon as we lose the first goal its curtains for us, no fight or desire to get back into it. We need to start fast on Saturday and get ahead or it could be a long afternoon. Everyone of the players should be hurting from Sunday and desperate to make amends and get back out there and win. I'm hoping he freshens the side up a bit although options are pretty limited. I don't want to see Toby Sibbick, surely we have a better option somewhere in the squad than him. 

[HopeDiouf]

1 hour ago, Jim Panzee said:

it's also been explained a billion times before that 2 x 3 times the wage is not the gulf all teams have with players of the bigot brothers on 8-10x the wage.

 

broadly speaking it should provide a slight advantage and over recent seasons it's seen us promoted and 3rd, 4th in the top flight - who knows this season, but hopefully 3rd again.

 

some good stats from the excellent London Hearts site showing historically we lose or draw more than we win v the mothers.

 

Games	343
Wins	165
Draws	71
Losses	106
Abandoned	1
Win %	48.10%
Draw %	20.70%
Loss %	30.90%

 

 

So with our reported wage cap at 5k, are we claiming rangers and celtic are paying their players 40-50k a week?  Don't think it's that high?  10,20,30, yes.  but I doubt they are paying 40-50k per week? Happy to be proven wrong.....

found this which is from 2020.  Suggest about 6x ours

Scottish Premiership: The wage bills of all 12 teams ranked as Celtic and Rangers pull away with majority of £62m paid in salaries (scotsman.com)

Edited November 9, 2023 by HopeDiouf

[Jim Panzee]

1 minute ago, HopeDiouf said:

So with our reported wage cap at 5k, are we claiming rangers and celtic are paying their players 40-50k a week?  Don't think it's that high?  10,20,30, yes.  but I doubt they are paying 40-50k per week? Happy to be proven wrong.....

My bad - I should've written squad / player value as opposed to wage. As you say - wages likely to be in the £10k - £20k range.

 

 

[HopeDiouf]

Just now, Jim Panzee said:

My bad - I should've written squad / player value as opposed to wage. As you say - wages likely to be in the £10k - £20k range.

 

 

👍

[Valois No1]

1 hour ago, Jim Panzee said:

it's also been explained a billion times before that 2 x 3 times the wage is not the gulf all teams have with players of the bigot brothers on 8-10x the wage.

 

broadly speaking it should provide a slight advantage and over recent seasons it's seen us promoted and 3rd, 4th in the top flight - who knows this season, but hopefully 3rd again.

 

some good stats from the excellent London Hearts site showing historically we lose or draw more than we win v the mothers.

 

Games	343
Wins	165
Draws	71
Losses	106
Abandoned	1
Win %	48.10%
Draw %	20.70%
Loss %	30.90%

 

 

If paying millions more a season isnt guaranteeing us 3rd or 4th then i question why bother. A more prudent approach would be to pay the same as the lower teams, save the millions for 3 or 4 years then invest it back into the team paying 5 or 6 times what they are. This would actually let us have more of an assault on the uglies. It is not working whatever we are doing right now so lets try something else

[Jim Panzee]

21 minutes ago, Valois No1 said:

If paying millions more a season isnt guaranteeing us 3rd or 4th then i question why bother. A more prudent approach would be to pay the same as the lower teams, save the millions for 3 or 4 years then invest it back into the team paying 5 or 6 times what they are. This would actually let us have more of an assault on the uglies. It is not working whatever we are doing right now so lets try something else

fair point.

 

or....we use funds we'd spend on 10 players and gamble on buying 2-3 much higher quality players. 

 

risky as we all know how we're cursed with injuries (it'd be those star players who get injured instead of fringe players)

 

we'd also have to bust the wage structure - but then surely an Alan Forrest would have little argument over us paying 5x more than him for a £1m winger....?

[Valois No1]

1 minute ago, Jim Panzee said:

fair point.

 

or....we use funds we'd spend on 10 players and gamble on buying 2-3 much higher quality players. 

 

risky as we all know how we're cursed with injuries (it'd be those star players who get injured instead of fringe players)

 

we'd also have to bust the wage structure - but then surely an Alan Forrest would have little argument over us paying 5x more than him for a £1m winger....?

Agreed.

 

If I were in charge (we all think we know how to run clubs) id create a tiered player structure. The spine of the team (GK, CH, CM,CF) would all be classed as senior players. These guys are seen as leaders and are of a higher quality....wage is 10k plus. We supplement them with similar players we have now with more youngsters being implemented to lower the overall wage structure. It could in theory mean having like a younger Gordon in goals.....a Jimmy Dunne or Soutter in defence. A quality CM (I cant think who tho lol) and a shanks up top. All senior very very good players. Thats what I would do.

[Toonhertz]

19 hours ago, Agentjambo said:

Does he still get sacked if we win?

he should have never got the job after the 1-0 derby defeat, then after the 2-2 game at Tynie he should have walked 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Would love to see a positive approach, however it will be about possession again.

[PapaShango]

3 hours ago, Lord Beni of Gorgie said:

Would love to see a positive approach, however it will be about possession again.

I hope we play quicker and with more purpose. Even against Livi we didn't move the ball quickly enough for me, sometimes one pass too many to get the same outcome. My biggest concern is when losing a goal we seem to completely fall to bits. Celtic, Hibs and Rangers twice as recent examples. First goal could be crucial as our confidence isn't exactly high. We need to start stringing a few wins together in the league and have an opportunity over the next 2 games. Get 6 points from those and I'll be a bit more optimistic. However can easily go the other way. 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

3 hours ago, PapaShango said:

I hope we play quicker and with more purpose. Even against Livi we didn't move the ball quickly enough for me, sometimes one pass too many to get the same outcome. My biggest concern is when losing a goal we seem to completely fall to bits. Celtic, Hibs and Rangers twice as recent examples. First goal could be crucial as our confidence isn't exactly high. We need to start stringing a few wins together in the league and have an opportunity over the next 2 games. Get 6 points from those and I'll be a bit more optimistic. However can easily go the other way. 

Touch to control and move it

Too often 4 or 5 touches 

[hisnameis]

On 09/11/2023 at 07:27, pettigrewsstylist said:

Sat morn will bring renewed fresh hope. In reality, more laboured huff n puff with no cutting edge and let down by bampot decision making expected and leaving with nowt. 

Hoping Tagawa is only couple of weeks away from cutting up  the HT oranges now. 

 

A bit negative but still funny.

[Pasquale for King]

On 08/11/2023 at 10:32, Deviskan said:

I tend to find posters that reply with images are generally simpletons.

 

Perhaps if you articulated a response it would be helpful…

 

Liam ‘17 games in 23/24 and 1 goal’ Boyce,..please help me understand why he should start before Shankland (18 games and 8 goals)?

 

Shankland is a far better version of Boyce, they both play similar roles and have similar styles.

 

Boyce was going downhill rapidly before his injury and since his return he’s continued in the same non-scoring, slow…holding onto the ball WAY too long whilst trying to dribble past multiple opponents before eventually losing the ball way.

 

Spot on

[Ricardo Quaresma]

FS

[CMc]

21 hours ago, Bickfest said:

I get what you're saying, but I feel that, rather than a lack of ire, we are badly missing an inspirational leader on the park. Someone who will lift his colleagues, leading from the front, encouraging, motivating, demanding maximum effort and getting an enthusiastic reaction. In short, a Steven Pressley, Marius Zaliukas, Paul Hartley, Colin Cameron etc. We haven't had such a player for a while. I have a sneaky feeling that the Hoff may be such a character but he's not ready yet. And much as Shanks is a great striker, I don't see him as an inspirational leader.

Ire is an under-utilised word IMO. 

 

Kent and Halkett (maybe) are the only ones I can see really giving their own team proper grief. Cam too focused on winding up opponents. Shanks tends to go head down and frustration rather than properly firing up the troops. 
 

Suspect Vargas has it in him. Just needs to learn the bad words in Scottish* and build a bit more capital with the group. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

*club should get him a tutor. Few on here would be good at the job. 

[Robbo-Jambo]

22 hours ago, Bickfest said:

I get what you're saying, but I feel that, rather than a lack of ire, we are badly missing an inspirational leader on the park. Someone who will lift his colleagues, leading from the front, encouraging, motivating, demanding maximum effort and getting an enthusiastic reaction. In short, a Steven Pressley, Marius Zaliukas, Paul Hartley, Colin Cameron etc. We haven't had such a player for a while. I have a sneaky feeling that the Hoff may be such a character but he's not ready yet. And much as Shanks is a great striker, I don't see him as an inspirational leader.

Nothing to suggest the Hoff would turn into that.

 

The exact opposite actually.

[Ricardo Quaresma]

44 minutes ago, CMc said:

Ire is an under-utilised word IMO. 

 

Kent and Halkett (maybe) are the only ones I can see really giving their own team proper grief. Cam too focused on winding up opponents. Shanks tends to go head down and frustration rather than properly firing up the troops. 
 

Suspect Vargas has it in him. Just needs to learn the bad words in Scottish* and build a bit more capital with the group.

 

Goals and assists would help with that

 

44 minutes ago, CMc said:

*club should get him a tutor. Few on here would be good at the job. 

 

Dunno why the quote was split; should not be possible really 😆

[Ricardo Quaresma]

32 minutes ago, Robbo-Jambo said:

Nothing to suggest the Hoff would turn into that.

 

The exact opposite actually.

 

At this stage I just want him to finish settling in and complete the 90

 

Happy with his efforts so far and he'll get better and better I reckon

 

-

Edited November 10, 2023 by Ricardo Quaresma

[jamboozy]

1 hour ago, CMc said:

Ire is an under-utilised word IMO. 

 

Kent and Halkett (maybe) are the only ones I can see really giving their own team proper grief. Cam too focused on winding up opponents. Shanks tends to go head down and frustration rather than properly firing up the troops. 
 

Suspect Vargas has it in him. Just needs to learn the bad words in Scottish* and build a bit more capital with the group. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

*club should get him a tutor. Few on here would be good at the job. 

Hoo- yoo tokin tae, ya fuh-hin bassa? 
can I have the tutors job please? 

[Bazzas right boot]

On 08/11/2023 at 07:42, Skacelsid said:

Devlin needs to be starting this and should have started on Sunday. He does not fit our slow passing rigid formation " model " as basically he wants to go where the action is and get stuck in. Instead of trying to tie him down and mould him into something he is not, give him freedom  to get about the park and use him to our advantage. He is no Colin Cameron but that is how he should be used and get him further up the park arriving in the box. If encouraged to he will get goals. IMO. Our midfield is too passive, static and create very little ( basically extra defenders ), probably as instructed by the numpties in the dugout with their tablets and statistics. At least Cammy plays for the Jersey.

 

 

 

Play Devlin, who has scored 8 goals in his entire career and who lacks any real creativity, composure  or passing ability further forward to somehow make us more creative?

 

You at the wind up?

 

 

[lost in space]

1 hour ago, Ricardo Quaresma said:

 

At this stage I just want him to finish settling in and complete the 90

 

Happy with his efforts so far and he'll get better and better I reckon

 

-

Can you tell us why you are happy with Hoff so far?

We all hope he will get better and better but he hasnt shown ANYTHING so far. He is not terrible but I dont see anything where he is particularly good. He looks bang-average. He can put in a tackle and make simple passes but he isnt very strong/ not big enough to win high balls/ doesnt often get into other teams box/ doesnt seem to have a great shot/ not a free kick specialist etc.

He deserves time to get used to our league but what are his strengths???