Nieuwenhof ( merged )

[Mr Elwood P]

3 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

You can go through them all and some we know why they didn’t play and some we can maybe make educated guesses. 
 

Beni. Injured 

Haring injured 

Grant. Not really a centre mid like we need but looks like he might leave

Halliday. Not very good. 
Denholm. Too raw maybe? 
Nieuenhof. Don’t know. 
 

Not exactly spoiled for choice but Cochrane was a mistake. Hopefully another to come in and a couple to go. 

We have had 3 months of a transfer window. Obviously nobody expected Beni to shit the bed in such spectacular fashion. Haring being injured is par for the course. In those circumstances our six figure replacement for Kio probably shouldn't have been a player who needs months to 'settle in' or get 'up to speed'. Surely someone in League One or an EPL academy cast off that fits the bill?

[A_A wehatethehibs]

6 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

I'm pretty confident that Calem will start for the 2nd week in a row against Dundee.

 

He has started two competitive games so far for Hearts a 2-0 win against St Johnstone and a 4-0 win v Partick and whilst he hasn't pulled up any trees as yet, I'm struggling to see what he has done wrong.

 

He's a young lad who is doing just fine and just needs a bit more time to fully settle in.

We were pish for the first 60 min against st j, he was anonymous and subbed off for Lowry and that was when we started playing some football

[4marsbars]

4 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

We have had 3 months of a transfer window. Obviously nobody expected Beni to shit the bed in such spectacular fashion. Haring being injured is par for the course. In those circumstances our six figure replacement for Kio probably shouldn't have been a player who needs months to 'settle in' or get 'up to speed'. Surely someone in League One or an EPL academy cast off that fits the bill?

 

A little more respect for Beni wouldn't go amiss?

[Mr Elwood P]

4 minutes ago, 4marsbars said:

 

A little more respect for Beni wouldn't go amiss?

How would you describe his performance in Norway?

[Papa]

I am sure I heard the Hof was injured and unavailable last night. I wish we could bring in a midfielder with proven attributes in our league. Mark O’Hara is performing exceptionally well at St Mirren for example.

[Jim Panzee]

1 hour ago, Jackhmfc1348 said:

Seen a good few people saying he’s shite and we need midfielders. Why not give him more chances 

‘A good few people’

 

you mean on here don’t you?

[deejtee]

23 minutes ago, iainmac said:

He's surely just being taken out of the firing line rather than being written off? 

 

The performances so far haven't really warranted a start but he may yet come good when he gets up to speed. 

About right. He may or may not be of the required standard. Sufficient to say he hasn't hit the ground running. No more no less.

[Bauld]

I saw a few people saying he's been carrying an injury which would explain a lot.

 

I have no idea but the guys just in the door.

 

Still too early to say.

 

Don't hassle the Hof.

[DC_92]

24 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

We were pish for the first 60 min against st j, he was anonymous and subbed off for Lowry and that was when we started playing some football

 

None of the stuff we saw or read about him suggests he's a number 10, which is where he played in that game.

 

I'd like to see him get a couple of games in his actual position.

[jtkb]

Not all transfers work out for many reasons but  the boy still has time wonder if he was injured last night.

[Benzinho]

1 hour ago, briever said:

I dont get this idea that somehow Scottish fitba is uniquely frantically paced.

 

When we play in Europe all those teams play at even higher pace and tempo.

We run about fast without the ball. European teams move the ball fast and move fast with it at feet. That's the key difference.

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, Benzinho said:

We run about fast without the ball. European teams move the ball fast and move fast with it at feet. That's the key difference.

When they are doing it we are standing still ball watching. 

[Pasquale for King]

20 minutes ago, Papa said:

I am sure I heard the Hof was injured and unavailable last night. I wish we could bring in a midfielder with proven attributes in our league. Mark O’Hara is performing exceptionally well at St Mirren for example.

I got slated for mentioning him in the transfer thread months ago but he just signed a new deal, folk turned their nose up at Hartley too. 

[Unknown user]

24 minutes ago, Papa said:

I am sure I heard the Hof was injured and unavailable last night. I wish we could bring in a midfielder with proven attributes in our league. Mark O’Hara is performing exceptionally well at St Mirren for example.

 

I'd love to see O'Hara in maroon.

[GinRummy]

45 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

We have had 3 months of a transfer window. Obviously nobody expected Beni to shit the bed in such spectacular fashion. Haring being injured is par for the course. In those circumstances our six figure replacement for Kio probably shouldn't have been a player who needs months to 'settle in' or get 'up to speed'. Surely someone in League One or an EPL academy cast off that fits the bill?

Can’t really disagree. Like you suggested maybe Beni was looking good in training and they didn’t expect him to flop. Who knows but it’s not looking great at this moment. Hopefully that changes quickly. 

[Unknown user]

Just now, GinRummy said:

Can’t really disagree. Like you suggested maybe Beni was looking good in training and they didn’t expect him to flop. Who knows but it’s not looking great at this moment. Hopefully that changes quickly. 

 

I couldn't believe people saying that playing Beni was crazy, I was excited to see him starting and didn't even slightly think it was a bad idea. I was rubbing my hands, if anything!

[jbee647]

1 hour ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Apparently Rowles will come good once he’s adapted as well.

 

Fact is these guys are coming from a lower level of the sport so there are no guarantees, folk do have the right to be concerned about the Neuwenhof signing. A project is definitely not the answer we were hoping for, to what was a critical problem position last season with Snodgrass implosion and Kio flop 

Failure to sign McGrath may prove to be a mistake, according to radio reports he was the man who turned last nights Europa tie in Sweden back In Aberdeens favour 

Im another who is doubtful about  signing players from Australian football, I’m definitely not convinced we couldn’t have gotten better in Scotland or the rest of the UK, we need to stop being obsessed about trying to find bargains and projects. 
fact is, you buy crap, you buy twice, it’s been proven time and time again

 

 

 

 

[GinRummy]

5 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

I couldn't believe people saying that playing Beni was crazy, I was excited to see him starting and didn't even slightly think it was a bad idea. I was rubbing my hands, if anything!

First thing I said after seeing the team in the match thread was how happy I was he was back. Hopefully back again soon, it really would be massive for us to have him fit and anywhere close to his best. 

[jbee647]

18 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

I couldn't believe people saying that playing Beni was crazy, I was excited to see him starting and didn't even slightly think it was a bad idea. I was rubbing my hands, if anything!

My concern with Beni that it now may be in his head.

I was talking with a couple of respected ex Hearts players in hospitality at the Killie game after Beni started in Norway

They both made the point he has been back in training since the back end of last season and will have done a pre season, they said, “no doubt he will have been assessed about his fitness levels and along the way the club also have been asked prior to the game if he was ready, he has obviously told the club he was good to go, he has not just jumped of the treatment table and on to the football pitch. blaming Hearts for starting Beni for starting that night is wrong.

 

He was so far off it that night that I hope it’s not psychological.

 

 

Edited August 25, 2023 by jbee647

[TallPaul]

2 hours ago, Jim Panzee said:

..... by whom?

The fact Cochrane started CM should answer that

[Bull's-eye]

His time on the bench will only make him better, in a few weeks he'll be better than Messi.

 

He'll get a start and be utter pish, wage thief, poor signing etc etc etc.

 

Then he'll be back on the bench and slowly get better and better again.

Rinse & repeat.

 

Its the moanback way  😆😆😆

[jbee647]

29 minutes ago, Benzinho said:

We run about fast without the ball. European teams move the ball fast and move fast with it at feet. That's the key difference.

100%,

there’s a huge difference,that allied to phsicallity and the way European referees officiate, we are miles of it in Scotland

 

 

[Carter]

2 hours ago, GinRummy said:

I don’t believe it is finished. I get Joe said it was but he’s just keeping things quiet. Grant will leave, Halliday will go on loan and we’ll bring in a player pushing to start. 

Long season ahead if this doesn't play out. Still see Halliday being retained. Kingsley misses games through injury and Cochrane has a penchant for getting sent off. Don't see anyone in the squad providing similar cover. Good pro and doesn't seem disruptive when not playing. Actually seems quite realistic about his role in the squad. 

[McCrae]

16 minutes ago, jbee647 said:

My concern with Beni that it now may be in his head.

I was talking with a couple of respected ex Hearts players in hospitality at the Killie game after Beni started in Norway

They both made the point he has been back in training since the back end of last season and will have done a pre season, they said, “no doubt he will have been assessed about his fitness levels and along the way the club also have been asked prior to the game if he was ready, he has obviously told the club he was good to go, he has not just jumped of the treatment table and on to the football pitch. blaming Hearts for starting Beni for starting that night is wrong.

 

He was so far off it that night that I hope it’s not psychological.

 

 

He was far off it when he came at STJ. Didn’t touch the ball… Surprised he was picked to start.

[GinRummy]

6 minutes ago, Carter said:

Long season ahead if this doesn't play out. Still see Halliday being retained. Kingsley misses games through injury and Cochrane has a penchant for getting sent off. Don't see anyone in the squad providing similar cover. Good pro and doesn't seem disruptive when not playing. Actually seems quite realistic about his role in the squad. 

It’s important to have squad players and if the management are happy with the squad and think Beni or Calem can give us what we need in centre mid then great. The squad is unbalanced though. We have a lot of centre mids. Way more than CB’s for example. 
 

If there’s doubts over Calems readiness to step up and Benis fitness then they need to act while the window is still open. **** going through another season of sub par choices at centre mid. 
 

Given how many midfielders we have, if someone else were to sign then an existing guy would have to sold or loaned out. 

Edited August 25, 2023 by GinRummy

[ramrod]

He's going to be a key  player for us when he finds his feet and settles in.

Was very impressed with him at at St Johnstone,  always had his head up trying to make a forward pass.

Absolutely no worries that he's going to be a olayer for us in the future. 

[4marsbars]

1 hour ago, Mr Elwood P said:

How would you describe his performance in Norway?

 

Like that of someone returning after a serious injury?

[Greedy Jambo]

It would be nice if we signed a midfielder that could come in and do a job straight away, you'd think they would have learned from the Kio disaster. 

[Sooks]

1 hour ago, Leveins Battalion said:

Some people will never accept the fact that we sign some amount of crap, people defended Oshaniwa and Kenny Anderson to the death.😂😂

 

I just hope we stop signing guys from Oz,I love Cammy Devlin but the rest of them could leave tommorrow and I wouldn't lose any sleep including the Hoff who I've seen twice now and was not impressed at all.

FFS

[Mr Elwood P]

5 minutes ago, 4marsbars said:

 

Like that of someone returning after a serious injury?

I don't think he reads JKB mate. He had an absolute disaster. Boyce conversely has come back and looks a man reborn ...

[iainmac]

1 hour ago, deejtee said:

About right. He may or may not be of the required standard. Sufficient to say he hasn't hit the ground running. No more no less.

 

Against Partick, I thought he was neat & tidy without really influencing the game. 

 

I hope he gets up to speed quickly but I thought the same about Kio & Grant at one time too. 

 

Not panicking just yet though. 

[Sooks]

It is almost like players are complex human beings with all kinds of things going on in their lives when they are not on the pitch . People play computer games too much 

[briever]

1 hour ago, DC_92 said:

 

None of the stuff we saw or read about him suggests he's a number 10, which is where he played in that game.

 

I'd like to see him get a couple of games in his actual position.

 

Which is?

 

He doesn't look like a DM, hasn't got much pace and hasn't shown much creativity.

Edited August 25, 2023 by briever

[Mr Elwood P]

5 minutes ago, Sooks said:

It is almost like players are complex human beings with all kinds of things going on in their lives when they are not on the pitch . People play computer games too much 

Just Hearts bad luck that we keep signing centre mids with loads of baggage?

[Sooks]

4 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

Just Hearts bad luck that we keep signing centre mids with loads of baggage?

Its a long way from Australia , doubt a cabin bag would suffice 

[briever]

It is far too early to write him off, but some folk do seem to think he'll turn into the creative player we need - even though he's shown no creativity at all.

[fabienleclerq]

Folk can only judge what they see, people's opinions are allowed to change over time.

 

He didn't get a touch of the ball v Leeds and was rotten v st Johnstone (as were haring and Devlin first half). His YouTube highlights people posted I don't think he was particularly impressive in.

 

He now appears behind all the other CM in the pecking order and also behind cochrane and sibbick who are defenders. 

 

He's a young guy whos moved across the world and might take time to settle,hopefully he earns and takes his chance when it comes.

[DC_92]

19 minutes ago, jbee647 said:

My concern with Beni that it now may be in his head.

I was talking with a couple of respected ex Hearts players in hospitality at the Killie game after Beni started in Norway

They both made the point he has been back in training since the back end of last season and will have done a pre season, they said, “no doubt he will have been assessed about his fitness levels and along the way the club also have been asked prior to the game if he was ready, he has obviously told the club he was good to go, he has not just jumped of the treatment table and on to the football pitch. blaming Hearts for starting Beni for starting that night is wrong.

 

He was so far off it that night that I hope it’s not psychological.

 

 

 

He'd been out for 17 months. After that long, you don't really know if he's up to the speed of a competitive football match until he actually plays in one. The management shouldn't be chucking him in based on how he's looked in training or taking his word for it that he was ready. The 10 minutes at St Johnstone was not nearly enough evidence to suggest he was ready to start an away European game against a side well into their season, especially when we had a more than adequate alternative in Haring.

 

Beni should have come on for 10-20 minutes before making slightly longer sub appearances in the next couple of games, with Partick being the ideal opportunity to give him his first start.

 

Contrast with Boyce, who made a series of short sub appearances (in which he looked sharp) before starting. He was then rested for the weekend game before coming back in to start. That is how to manage the comeback from a long term injury.

[DC_92]

13 minutes ago, briever said:

 

Which is?

 

He doesn't look like a DM, hasn't got much pace and hasn't shown much creativity.

 

Central midfield. He's barely played so I don't see how those conclusions can be drawn.

[1971fozzy]

3 hours ago, Jackhmfc1348 said:

I feel bad for nieuwenhof made his debut less than a month ago and is already being written off

not by anyone I know.

he will likely feature at Dens I’d bet / hope 

[fabienleclerq]

31 minutes ago, ramrod said:

He's going to be a key  player for us when he finds his feet and settles in.

Was very impressed with him at at St Johnstone,  always had his head up trying to make a forward pass.

Absolutely no worries that he's going to be a olayer for us in the future. 

 

That's a wind up?

[briever]

7 minutes ago, DC_92 said:

 

Central midfield. He's barely played so I don't see how those conclusions can be drawn.

 

He's one of the run of mill generic players we see in the modern game - like Rowles at the back.  Unremarkable players who tick metric boxes somewhere.

[Diadora Van Basten]

I don’t see Grant as a centre midfielder I think he is more like a number 10

[Famous 1874]

He’s clearly struggled with the pace of the game and that the fact he isn’t explosive at all. 
 

However it’s no surprise that it’s happened considering he played in the A-League. He just needs time to acclimatise to the tempo of the Scottish game and how we want to play (high pressing)
 

One that we’ll have to be particularly patient with. 

[DC_92]

28 minutes ago, briever said:

 

He's one of the run of mill generic players we see in the modern game - like Rowles at the back.  Unremarkable players who tick metric boxes somewhere.

 

On Rowles, I'm pretty sure the "metrics" told us his strengths lie in reading the game to make interceptions and blocks, which correlates pretty well to what we've seen in the pitch in my opinion. They also told us he was subpar at challenging for headers even in the Australian league, which raised big alarm bells for me at the time considering it's almost certainly a less physical league.

 

On Nieuwenhof, maybe your assessment will end up being correct, but it seems ludicrously early to make that conclusion. I don't think he seems generic based on the scouting reports or the admittedly limited footage I've seen. He seems to be a ball winner who can manoeuvre into space in tight areas and make accurate passes, as well as making runs into the opposition box from deep. That's how he was in Australia, whether he can replicate that in a different country and a higher standard of football remains to be seen, but I'll let him play a few games before writing him off.

Edited August 25, 2023 by DC_92

[Diadora Van Basten]

I thought Niewinhof had a decent game against Patrick tidy but nothing spectacular.

 

Reminded me a bit of Lee Makel.

[Jambo in Bathgate]

4 hours ago, briever said:

I dont get this idea that somehow Scottish fitba is uniquely frantically paced.

 

When we play in Europe all those teams play at even higher pace and tempo.

Certainly do but they retain the ball. Scottish football is high paced and very physical. Look at Kilmarnock and dare I say it Aberdeen. Kick and rush bit like Rugby. 

[The Old Tolbooth]

Who’s writing him off? Some players take time to adjust to the league, he’s no different to plenty of other players, remember Hartley was utter dog shit when he first joined too? 

[Sooks]

1 hour ago, fabienleclerq said:

Folk can only judge what they see, people's opinions are allowed to change over time.

 

He didn't get a touch of the ball v Leeds and was rotten v st Johnstone (as were haring and Devlin first half). His YouTube highlights people posted I don't think he was particularly impressive in.

 

He now appears behind all the other CM in the pecking order and also behind cochrane and sibbick who are defenders. 

 

He's a young guy whos moved across the world and might take time to settle,hopefully he earns and takes his chance when it comes.

Maybe that tells us it is too early to judge him ………….. or to pass sentence really , as that seems to what folk are keen to do 

[briever]

1 hour ago, DC_92 said:

 

On Rowles, I'm pretty sure the "metrics" told us his strengths lie in reading the game to make interceptions and blocks, which correlates pretty well to what we've seen in the pitch in my opinion. They also told us he was subpar at challenging for headers even in the Australian league, which raised big alarm bells for me at the time considering it's almost certainly a less physical league.

 

On Nieuwenhof, maybe your assessment will end up being correct, but it seems ludicrously early to make that conclusion. I don't think he seems generic based on the scouting reports or the admittedly limited footage I've seen. He seems to be a ball winner who can manoeuvre into space in tight areas and make accurate passes, as well as making runs into the opposition box from deep. That's how he was in Australia, whether he can replicate that in a different country and a higher standard of football remains to be seen, but I'll let him play a few games before writing him off.

 

I've said already its too early to write him off - I am making my assessment based on his limited time on the pitch.  

 

Hopefully he's better than the other aussies and can actually trap the ball and pass, IMO we need to stop signing Aussie league players, they aren't remotely skilful.