Nieuwenhof ( merged )

[CMc]

23 hours ago, Taffin said:

Has anyone got the points per game with Haring vs without him?

 

My gut feel is we play better and win more when he's on the pitch, but would be good to have proof of that.

 

People who don't rate him aren't worth listening to imo.

 

20 minutes ago, CMc said:

1.45ppg in the league over this season and last. 

And looks like we took 1.42 in the league last season and are on 1.4 just now - so yes, taking fractionally more points with him in The team. 

[CMc]

19 hours ago, TheBigO said:

.  Would love to see our CM heatmaps versus McGrath and Clarkson on Saturday - two excellent AMCs no doubt!!!

 

 

Hearts top, sheep bottom. (Named players plus the subs who replaced them). 

[saxondale]

11 hours ago, Ronald Villiers said:

I know what you mean mate.  We do need pace but with regards Haring, he needs to think a bit quicker about what he's going to do prior to getting the pass, and be aware of who's around him aswell.  He's pretty steady but his lack of pace and awareness gets the better of him quite often.

 

We don't need pace in the holding midfield position though.

 

I'll have to disagree with you re Haring not thinking quickly; the reason he is in the starting lineup is because he is an intelligent footballer that makes up for his lack of pace.

[TheBigO]

1 hour ago, CMc said:

Hearts top, sheep bottom. (Named players plus the subs who replaced them). 

You're on fire, brother!!

 

So what I'm seeing is Aberdeen players aren't dropping to get the ball from their CHs.  That could be two things - 3 at the back, I don't know I want a CM to come and split the CHs unless they're stepping up.  Snoddy did this for us and it didn't make sense.  CM dropping in, only really want to see it with 2 CHs. Make sense?

 

But with Aberdeen, add that to the fact they barely move from the halfway line, what we're actually seeing is the CHs punting balls over their heads time and again.  And their midfield aren't pushing forward for the scraps either because the balls forward are so bad/we're dealing with them so well, there are no scraps, or because they're simply not doing it cos they're lazy/disjointed.

 

Our map, midfielders picking up balls deep and trying to dictate play, plus getting beyond the halfway line.  Nice to see a few more touches high up the pitch, but we know Newy set up the second goal at the very least and Cam had that shot later in game, so we did get in those positions.

 

But back to the reason I wanted to see this.  We play with DMs according to about everyone who comments on it.  Aberdeen signed two amazing AMCs in Clarkson and McGrath.  It's all narrative.  When we actually manage to impose our style, our CMs are just that, all action CMs.  They defend and their main job is to be the engine, win the scraps, feed the ball, but they do it all over the field and Cam especially loves joining in in our attacks, and is actually way better at it than credited.

[spacerjoe]

4 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

You're on fire, brother!!

 

So what I'm seeing is Aberdeen players aren't dropping to get the ball from their CHs.  That could be two things - 3 at the back, I don't know I want a CM to come and split the CHs unless they're stepping up.  Snoddy did this for us and it didn't make sense.  CM dropping in, only really want to see it with 2 CHs. Make sense?

 

But with Aberdeen, add that to the fact they barely move from the halfway line, what we're actually seeing is the CHs punting balls over their heads time and again.  And their midfield aren't pushing forward for the scraps either because the balls forward are so bad/we're dealing with them so well, there are no scraps, or because they're simply not doing it cos they're lazy/disjointed.

 

Our map, midfielders picking up balls deep and trying to dictate play, plus getting beyond the halfway line.  Nice to see a few more touches high up the pitch, but we know Newy set up the second goal at the very least and Cam had that shot later in game, so we did get in those positions.

 

But back to the reason I wanted to see this.  We play with DMs according to about everyone who comments on it.  Aberdeen signed two amazing AMCs in Clarkson and McGrath.  It's all narrative.  When we actually manage to impose our style, our CMs are just that, all action CMs.  They defend and their main job is to be the engine, win the scraps, feed the ball, but they do it all over the field and Cam especially loves joining in in our attacks, and is actually way better at it than credited.

 

Perhaps it's more just Devlin tracking back and winning tackles then intentionally trying to pick the ball up deep.

 

Like the old Kante heatmap. A fully green rectangle.

[Vlad Magic]

Apparently David Hasselhoff has legally changed his name to just “The Hoff”

 

Asked why he simply replied it’s less Hassle.

[TheBigO]

20 minutes ago, spacerjoe said:

 

Perhaps it's more just Devlin tracking back and winning tackles then intentionally trying to pick the ball up deep.

 

Like the old Kante heatmap. A fully green rectangle.

Yeah could be a lot of that as well.  And Haring tbf.  I tend to think Haring will win the ball deeper, Cam further up the park.  Certainly interesting and I think these maps plus the one @CMc posted on the Cam Devlin thread, over a good run of games will show we don't play with CDMs, we play with old fashioned CMs.  We really do.  I'd like them in the box a wee bit more but when our fullbacks are on song, we don't need them to and in fact argument would be their job is to cover and mop for the FBs.  The CDM/CM thing is obviously subjective cos what do the terms really mean, but i'm saying their main jobs are not merely defensive which is picture painted very often.

 

On a slightly separate, but connected note, for me what we need to do it move the entire unit even 10-20 yards further up the pitch.  Be braver in the areas we play in.

[HMFC01]

Our first goal started with a header from Devlin, he runs into their box at the back post area.   That's not sitting in.   That's definitely getting involved in the attack. 

[Ari Gold]

14 hours ago, gorgierulesapply88 said:

Hickey should have been nae where near it either look how he's turned out?

Why? Hickey looked good from the moment he played in the first team. Denholm hasn't.

 

Silly comparison.

[Ronald Villiers]

3 hours ago, saxondale said:

 

We don't need pace in the holding midfield position though.

 

I'll have to disagree with you re Haring not thinking quickly; the reason he is in the starting lineup is because he is an intelligent footballer that makes up for his lack of pace.

It does help having pace in any position.  Haring is an intelligent player, I never said he wasn't.  

[poultry]

10 hours ago, CMc said:

Hearts top, sheep bottom. (Named players plus the subs who replaced them). 

Is this not a shoal of Mackerel ?

[Russ1977]

6 hours ago, HMFC01 said:

Our first goal started with a header from Devlin, he runs into their box at the back post area.   That's not sitting in.   That's definitely getting involved in the attack. 

I agree. Devlin does get forward he just needs to improve his final pass or shot. If he does that we’ve got a cracking all round player.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

On 19/09/2023 at 02:37, Taffin said:

Has anyone got the points per game with Haring vs without him?

 

My gut feel is we play better and win more when he's on the pitch, but would be good to have proof of that.

 

People who don't rate him aren't worth listening to imo.

 

He always makes me pull my hair out when he's on the pitch because of the times he loses his man on defence and turns at the speed of a battleship, but if he'd been healthy last February and March I think we would have avoided the freefall. We were absolutely desperate for a real holding mid and had to go with Snoddy instead, and it was such a disaster.

 

I'm glad he's at Hearts but I'd rather he weren't starting. I said on another thread (I think) he always slows the game down. It's a good thing when we're getting overrun, it's a bad thing when we have a team on their heels.

 

8 hours ago, TheBigO said:

You're on fire, brother!!

 

So what I'm seeing is Aberdeen players aren't dropping to get the ball from their CHs.  That could be two things - 3 at the back, I don't know I want a CM to come and split the CHs unless they're stepping up.  Snoddy did this for us and it didn't make sense.  CM dropping in, only really want to see it with 2 CHs. Make sense?

 

But with Aberdeen, add that to the fact they barely move from the halfway line, what we're actually seeing is the CHs punting balls over their heads time and again.  And their midfield aren't pushing forward for the scraps either because the balls forward are so bad/we're dealing with them so well, there are no scraps, or because they're simply not doing it cos they're lazy/disjointed.

 

Our map, midfielders picking up balls deep and trying to dictate play, plus getting beyond the halfway line.  Nice to see a few more touches high up the pitch, but we know Newy set up the second goal at the very least and Cam had that shot later in game, so we did get in those positions.

 

But back to the reason I wanted to see this.  We play with DMs according to about everyone who comments on it.  Aberdeen signed two amazing AMCs in Clarkson and McGrath.  It's all narrative.  When we actually manage to impose our style, our CMs are just that, all action CMs.  They defend and their main job is to be the engine, win the scraps, feed the ball, but they do it all over the field and Cam especially loves joining in in our attacks, and is actually way better at it than credited.

 

Great analysis, you and @CMc would be better than at least a third of announcing pairs.

 

8 hours ago, Vlad Magic said:

Apparently David Hasselhoff has legally changed his name to just “The Hoff”

 

Asked why he simply replied it’s less Hassle.

Nice one.

[CMc]

1 hour ago, poultry said:

Is this not a shoal of Mackerel ?

We’re gonna need a bigger boat, boys. 

[Fort Vallance]

1 hour ago, poultry said:

Is this not a shoal of Mackerel ?

No plaice for that in this thread.

[mr fox]

7 hours ago, Ronald Villiers said:

It does help having pace in any position.  Haring is an intelligent player, I never said he wasn't.  

If you don’t have pace at football you are playing a lower level than you could. What a crazy statement saying you don’t need pace. 

[upgotheheads]

14 minutes ago, Fort Vallance said:

No plaice for that in this thread.

 

Correct, it's just a load of codswallop

[fabienleclerq]

12 hours ago, mr fox said:

If you don’t have pace at football you are playing a lower level than you could. What a crazy statement saying you don’t need pace. 

 

There's plenty top players that weren't particularly blessed with pace, especially in CM.

[Sooks]

13 hours ago, mr fox said:

If you don’t have pace at football you are playing a lower level than you could. What a crazy statement saying you don’t need pace. 

Dont think there even was a higher level for Pirlo and Cannavaro to aspire to

[Ronald Villiers]

13 hours ago, mr fox said:

If you don’t have pace at football you are playing a lower level than you could. What a crazy statement saying you don’t need pace. 

Totally mate.

[Ricardo Quaresma]

11 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Dont think there even was a higher level for Pirlo and Cannavaro to aspire to

 

Don't think Cannavaro was short of pace, mate; he wouldn't have made it into my management games otherwise

 

IIRC, his pace was 95 / 100 on LMA 2005

 

-

Edited September 21, 2023 by Ricardo Quaresma

[Sooks]

18 minutes ago, Ricardo Quaresma said:

 

Don't think Cannavaro was short of pace, mate; he wouldn't have made it into my management games otherwise

 

IIRC, his pace was 95 / 100 on LMA 2005

 

-

Do not think I ever saw him run in his long distinguished career 

[The Black Prince]

The Celtic fans were always complaining about Aaron Mooy's (so called) lack of pace but by the end of last season he'd turned them all around and they were raving about the speed of his football brain and outstanding ability to hold possession.

 

Mind you, I always thought Mooy was deceptively quick. He just looked slow with his lazy running style. He wisnae called the Pasty Pirlo for nothing. Arthritis in his back killed his career too early, poor lad.

 

Having said all that, the Hoff is quite fast.

[Ricardo Quaresma]

4 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Do not think I ever saw him run in his long distinguished career 

 

Well, I've got a great memory, bud, I seem to remember 95 pace for him and it was early in his career, but, alas, can't recover that info now, so we'll just have to leave the answer blowing in the wind

[Sooks]

Just now, Ricardo Quaresma said:

 

Well, I've got a great memory, bud, I seem to remember 95 pace for him and it was early in his career, but, alas, can't recover that info now, so we'll just have to leave the answer blowing in the wind

He would probably still be man of the match every week for Oxford Town or someone like that 

[Ricardo Quaresma]

1 minute ago, Sooks said:

He would probably still be man of the match every week for Oxford Town or someone like that 

 

If I remember well, he was strangley inexpensive in that game, that's why I got him

 

Maxi Rodriguez too, Kallon, Kompany, Vanden Borre, all nice and cheap and rattled Europe

[Sooks]

1 minute ago, Ricardo Quaresma said:

 

If I remember well, he was strangley inexpensive in that game, that's why I got him

 

Maxi Rodriguez too, Kallon, Kompany, Vanden Borre, all nice and cheap and rattled Europe

I dont know that Dylan song  

[Ricardo Quaresma]

1 minute ago, Sooks said:

I dont know that Dylan song  

 

 

[Sooks]

Just now, Ricardo Quaresma said:

 

 

I know that one mate ! Thats why I replied with the Oxford Town mention . I thought we were doing a thing  

[Ricardo Quaresma]

34 minutes ago, Sooks said:

I know that one mate ! Thats why I replied with the Oxford Town mention . I thought we were doing a thing  

 

I'm 2 big Czech beers in and:

 

Spoiler

 

You've lost me

 

Probably get it later

[The Black Prince]

Wonder if Hoff is reading this...

[Ricardo Quaresma]

9 minutes ago, The Black Prince said:

Wonder if Hoff is reading this...

 

I'm pondering whether to put several vids of the Animals after seeing them after the Dylan vid, in a spoiler of course but very much off topic; they were very good 🤣

[Jim Panzee]

On 20/09/2023 at 09:06, TheBigO said:

Yeah could be a lot of that as well.  And Haring tbf.  I tend to think Haring will win the ball deeper, Cam further up the park.  Certainly interesting and I think these maps plus the one @CMc posted on the Cam Devlin thread, over a good run of games will show we don't play with CDMs, we play with old fashioned CMs.  We really do.  I'd like them in the box a wee bit more but when our fullbacks are on song, we don't need them to and in fact argument would be their job is to cover and mop for the FBs.  The CDM/CM thing is obviously subjective cos what do the terms really mean, but i'm saying their main jobs are not merely defensive which is picture painted very often.

 

On a slightly separate, but connected note, for me what we need to do it move the entire unit even 10-20 yards further up the pitch.  Be braver in the areas we play in.

 

it's what Naismith has consistently said since being appointed as manager. (leads onto the other point of us having players who are good enough) 

[TheBigO]

2 minutes ago, Jim Panzee said:

 

it's what Naismith has consistently said since being appointed as manager. (leads onto the other point of us having players who are good enough) 

Yeah, could be that, but also sometimes they just need to do it to see they can do it.  Aberdeen hopefully will have given confidence.  I know dons had given up by this point, but the way we popped the ball about wherever we wanted in the last 10 mins will have helped the boys a lot I'd hope - they'll have enjoyed that and that's another thing Naisy spoke about last season, letting the guys have the freedom to enjoy their football, instead of weighing them down.

 

Christ, as much as he was a snarly little cheating swine, how much did Naisy ENJOY being on a football pitch!!!! That's really what we want, right?

[Jim Panzee]

2 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

Yeah, could be that, but also sometimes they just need to do it to see they can do it.  Aberdeen hopefully will have given confidence.  I know dons had given up by this point, but the way we popped the ball about wherever we wanted in the last 10 mins will have helped the boys a lot I'd hope - they'll have enjoyed that and that's another thing Naisy spoke about last season, letting the guys have the freedom to enjoy their football, instead of weighing them down.

 

Christ, as much as he was a snarly little cheating swine, how much did Naisy ENJOY being on a football pitch!!!! That's really what we want, right?

back to a thread I started a few weeks ago - confidence...which I suppose manifests itself in enjoyment of the game.

 

take away the fear of failure and most top flight footballers can look really good.

[TheBigO]

10 minutes ago, Jim Panzee said:

back to a thread I started a few weeks ago - confidence...which I suppose manifests itself in enjoyment of the game.

 

take away the fear of failure and most top flight footballers can look really good.

Bingo.  Not saying he's Cafu (yet!!!!) but look at the difference in Natty since Naisy built him up.

[kingantti1874]

On 20/09/2023 at 08:31, TheBigO said:

You're on fire, brother!!

 

So what I'm seeing is Aberdeen players aren't dropping to get the ball from their CHs.  That could be two things - 3 at the back, I don't know I want a CM to come and split the CHs unless they're stepping up.  Snoddy did this for us and it didn't make sense.  CM dropping in, only really want to see it with 2 CHs. Make sense?

 

But with Aberdeen, add that to the fact they barely move from the halfway line, what we're actually seeing is the CHs punting balls over their heads time and again.  And their midfield aren't pushing forward for the scraps either because the balls forward are so bad/we're dealing with them so well, there are no scraps, or because they're simply not doing it cos they're lazy/disjointed.

 

Our map, midfielders picking up balls deep and trying to dictate play, plus getting beyond the halfway line.  Nice to see a few more touches high up the pitch, but we know Newy set up the second goal at the very least and Cam had that shot later in game, so we did get in those positions.

 

But back to the reason I wanted to see this.  We play with DMs according to about everyone who comments on it.  Aberdeen signed two amazing AMCs in Clarkson and McGrath.  It's all narrative.  When we actually manage to impose our style, our CMs are just that, all action CMs.  They defend and their main job is to be the engine, win the scraps, feed the ball, but they do it all over the field and Cam especially loves joining in in our attacks, and is actually way better at it than credited.

2 amazing AMC’s .  Think you’re a bit overboard there big O. Clarkson flatters to deceive, great strike not a lot else.  McGrath usually plays left mid and was absolutely pish for DUFC

[TheBigO]

2 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

2 amazing AMC’s .  Think you’re a bit overboard there big O. Clarkson flatters to deceive, great strike not a lot else.  McGrath usually plays left mid and was absolutely pish for DUFC

I may have been being a tad facetious!

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

I'd like to see him in the team Saturday

[Watt-Zeefuik]

9 hours ago, Ricardo Quaresma said:

 

I'm 2 big Czech beers in and:

 

 

So you're saying you were tangled up in brews?

[The Black Prince]

12 hours ago, Jim Panzee said:

back to a thread I started a few weeks ago - confidence...which I suppose manifests itself in enjoyment of the game.

 

take away the fear of failure and most top flight footballers can look really good.

In fact, this is exactly what Ange P does. Encourages the players to attack and play for the sheer joy of it like teenagers.

 

Of course he gives them structures and systems but they're all about attack and removing the fear of failure. Most modern players are playing in a way that doesn't risk the coach's job. Not Ange's players.

 

You might say: it's easy for Ange - he can afford the best. 

 

But he couldn't always. He worked his way up from the bottom team in the A League doing the same thing everywhere. Should be more of it. Players and fans love it.

[Ricardo Quaresma]

12 hours ago, Led Tasso said:

So you're saying you were tangled up in brews?

 

[TheBigO]

9 hours ago, The Black Prince said:

In fact, this is exactly what Ange P does. Encourages the players to attack and play for the sheer joy of it like teenagers.

 

Of course he gives them structures and systems but they're all about attack and removing the fear of failure. Most modern players are playing in a way that doesn't risk the coach's job. Not Ange's players.

 

You might say: it's easy for Ange - he can afford the best. 

 

But he couldn't always. He worked his way up from the bottom team in the A League doing the same thing everywhere. Should be more of it. Players and fans love it.

Totally agree, but like in most industries, that type of manager/leader is very rare.  Many say they do, many want to, plenty believe they do.  Few actually manage to properly take the shackles off their staff.

 

I look at some previous position I've held and see I could have done this so much better.  My staff were happy, we did a good job and were a crew, but we'd have run better if I'd given them more freedom.

 

It's not easy.  Perhaps even harder in an industry where a bad month sees you jobless!!!

[Debut 4]

10 hours ago, The Black Prince said:

In fact, this is exactly what Ange P does. Encourages the players to attack and play for the sheer joy of it like teenagers.

 

Of course he gives them structures and systems but they're all about attack and removing the fear of failure. Most modern players are playing in a way that doesn't risk the coach's job. Not Ange's players.

 

You might say: it's easy for Ange - he can afford the best. 

 

But he couldn't always. He worked his way up from the bottom team in the A League doing the same thing everywhere. Should be more of it. Players and fans love it.

That’s what I like about his approach.  
 

Hate using the term but it’s what people understand,  he’s a bit “old school”.  A bit Jim Jefferies. 😁
 

He’s mostly about what a player can give him and what platform he gives to the player.  I often wonder if the managers at Notts Forest and other mid to bottom half table clubs in the epl actually think about the player they want to suit their vision?  

They lavish out on 7 or 8 players but are they really thinking about how it’ll come together? 

 

Good managers know what they want and when they sign a player they are going to use him for the reason they bought him, not to stifle with tactics or

give them micromanaged role in the team.  

[Jim Panzee]

3 hours ago, Debut 4 said:

He’s mostly about what a player can give him and what platform he gives to the player.  I often wonder if the managers at Notts Forest and other mid to bottom half table clubs in the epl actually think abou......

 

 

cardinal sin.....

[Debut 4]

2 minutes ago, Jim Panzee said:

 

 

cardinal sin.....

Couldn’t be arsed typing Nottingham.🤪   I’ll remember not to type Inter Milan in the next Italian football discussion 😁

[Jim Panzee]

19 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

Couldn’t be arsed typing Nottingham.🤪   I’ll remember not to type Inter Milan in the next Italian football discussion 😁

🤪😆

[pettigrewsstylist]

Next 2 games will give indication if ready for Scottish top tier. Best wishes to lad if he gets a chance to show.

[FarmerTweedy]

On 20/09/2023 at 07:39, CMc said:

1.45ppg in the league over this season and last. 

With or without him?

 

 

Sounds like an idea for a song! 🤔

[ColinSmith1255]

On 20/09/2023 at 17:12, poultry said:

Is this not a shoal of Mackerel ?

👏