Naismith In!!!!

[Cruyff]

I think it's clear to see that Naisy has got a positive reaction, that we play attacking football, that the players are enjoying it and that is the litmus test. 

 

If we are doing things to the best of our ability what more do you want? The last two games are exactly what we've asked for and we were cheated out of a result blon Sunday. 

 

So aye, if he beats St Midden, the Mutton Molesters and Hivs and he should get the job because things have worked out and the proof is evidenced in performances. 

 

[Cruyff]

5 minutes ago, Lord Beni of Gorgie said:

We've had 3 games to look at Naismith, thats already 3 games more than we get to look at any other manager, and we have 4 more. This is as good as it gets, you dont get to loan or try before you buy with anyone else.

 

Wilder might actually be the living example of that, done very well  and done very badly, there are no guarantees, on what we have seen over the last 3 weeks, its been encouraging. On that basis, assuming the trend continues, you might be throwing away someone very good, that would be great eh

Exactly. 👍

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

16 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

 

No you dont.  You want the best man for the job who isn’t naismith.  
 

In your eyes there is nothing he can do to earn it . You want “your definition” of the best man for the job. 

I think he is up against it to have earned it in 6 games. I am not saying he won’t be the best candidate for the job. I admit though that if he is the best candidate for the job I am not sure that the board will have discharged it’s obligations properly.

 

I don’t think that sets me out as some sort of left field crackpot.

 

Others can judge.

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

4 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

I think it's clear to see that Naisy has got a positive reaction, that we play attacking football, that the players are enjoying it and that is the litmus test. 

 

If we are doing things to the best of our ability what more do you want? The last two games are exactly what we've asked for and we were cheated out of a result blon Sunday. 

 

So aye, if he beats St Midden, the Mutton Molesters and Hivs and he should get the job because things have worked out and the proof is evidenced in performances. 

 

The litmus test is results mate surely - agreed?

 

Maybe best to revisit it then (and I am sending myself a message to shut up when I say that also!)

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

13 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

it’s simply not in any way fair to expect a manager to repair and broken squad and system in 3.5 days

 

Whilst we were overall terrible it’s was clear some individuals had started playing again.  E.g Barrie McKay who was decent first half 

Dyche at Everton re the Arsenal game?

 

ok.

 

Now 🤐

Edited May 9, 2023 by Tom Hardy’s Dug

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

9 minutes ago, The Treasurer said:

Of course we couldn't judge Naismith (or any manager) after such a short time, but I honestly saw a group of individuals who looked like they couldn't give a shit.

I spoke to a wee team fan, who usually tells it like it is hen it comes to derbies, and he said he had never seen such a weak performance from a Hearts team

You think he could change things in basically 2 to 3 days?

[soonbe110]

1 hour ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

True, though we still have some on here still looking to argue about Levein as manager so it never ends.

 

Its pretty straight foward, Naismith may be the one to take us forward (there has been promising signs) but we cant really be sure until after the next 4 games. 

 

It has been quiet on the managerial front in the press, no one being linked, which is normally a good thing as if someone goes to the press saying how they want to be Hearts manager and putting their hat in the ring, normally it means their agent is using us to get their clients name out there.

Or maybe we know who we want and its close to being finalised  

[Cruyff]

Just now, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

The litmus test is results mate surely - agreed?

 

Maybe best to revisit it then (and I am sending myself a message to shut up when I say that also!)

I don't think you can count the Hibs or Celtic game considering he had 4 days to get rid off Neilson ball and we were cheated off the park on Sunday. 

 

As I said the next 4 games are where results are the key thing but if we play like we have in the last two games then I have no doubt we'll get the results. 

[Cruyff]

Just now, soonbe110 said:

Or maybe we know who we want and its close to being finalised  

I doubt it. I think the board will wait until the end of the season before making the decision. 

[bringonthesevco]

I'm really torn on this one, I like Naismith , I think he has a winners attitude and it would be hard to knock him back if he gets 3 wins and a good performance against Sevco.

 

However, I'd still really like someone that isn't stuck in the "Scottish mindset" of pandering to the @rse cheeks , has no links to either of them and comes with very very little respect of either of them.  

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

Just now, Cruyff said:

I doubt it. I think the board will wait until the end of the season before making the decision. 

If we aren’t appointing Naismith I’d be very disappointed if we are not close to signing up our first choice. 

 

We don’t have huge leeway in close season to sort ourselves out.

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

7 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

I don't think you can count the Hibs or Celtic game considering he had 4 days to get rid off Neilson ball and we were cheated off the park on Sunday. 

 

As I said the next 4 games are where results are the key thing but if we play like we have in the last two games then I have no doubt we'll get the results. 

Ok. I’m a hypocrite.

 

Of course you can count the games.

 

Hibs - Kermit the frog should have got us with more fight in our belly against Hibs. It shouldn’t take anything to get a team to run their guts out against their city rivals. Even Neilson had us on an unbeaten run against them.

 

How did we play a huge amount better against Celtic in the first half last weekend than the game against them at Parkhead when we took the lead?.
 

1 goal in that first half, no shots on target in the first half on Saturday.

What was so much better about Saturday than that first half at Parkhead?

Edited May 9, 2023 by Tom Hardy’s Dug

[Cruyff]

1 minute ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

If we aren’t appointing Naismith I’d be very disappointed if we are not close to signing up our first choice. 

 

We don’t have huge leeway in close season to sort ourselves out.

We might not have a first choice at the minute. We might instead have a number of options under consideration and we're not going to make a decision until we're sure that it's not Naisy. If we don't win v St Mirren, maybe we can make that decision a bit quicker. 

[soonbe110]

29 minutes ago, The Treasurer said:

Signs of improvement at ER ??????????

That was probably the worst performance (or non performance to be more accurate) that I've ever seen down there, and I include the 2-6 game.

It wasn’t great but it was better than the two or three away games prior to it so I see it as improvement  He had only 3/4 days working with the players prior to that game plus the fact the players, some of them at least, were still reeling from Neilson being fired   

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

6 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

We might not have a first choice at the minute. We might instead have a number of options under consideration and we're not going to make a decision until we're sure that it's not Naisy. If we don't win v St Mirren, maybe we can make that decision a bit quicker. 

Or even if we do win it depends on what people are available and when we need to make a decision.

 

But yes, I agree - who knows where things are behind the scenes (that said a lot of our ITK peeps are quite quiet these days).

Edited May 9, 2023 by Tom Hardy’s Dug

[Agentjambo]

3 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

agreed. So (if he proves he is worth a shot over the remaining fixtures)  a 1 year contract then and see how he gets on. 

Would anyone come in and take a gamble on Naismith if he was to do well over 7 fixtures?? ie.Another club

[soonbe110]

Just now, Agentjambo said:

Would anyone come in and take a gamble on Naismith if he was to do well over 7 fixtures?? ie.Another club

Suspect Killie, St.Johnstone, et al just might  

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

3 minutes ago, Agentjambo said:

Would anyone come in and take a gamble on Naismith if he was to do well over 7 fixtures?? ie.Another club

He’d get a job top half the SPL championship IMO. Maybe St Johnstone? Ross County?

 

At the end of the day it would be his first head coach appointment.

 

Would/should we have appointed Barry Robson? Better record over longer run.

Edited May 9, 2023 by Tom Hardy’s Dug

[Cruyff]

5 minutes ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

Ok. I’m a hypocrite.

 

Of course you can count the games.

 

Hibs - Kermit the frog should have got us with more fight in our belly against Hibs. It shouldn’t take anything to get a team to run their guts out against their city rivals. Even Neilson had us on an unbeaten run against them.

 

How did we play a huge amount better against Celtic in the first half last weekend than the game against them at Parkhead when we took the lead?.
 

1 goal in that first half, no shots on target in the first half on Saturday.

What was so much better about Saturday than that first half at Parkhead?

You can try and frame it anyway you want but you're not accepting the realities of how people work and what it takes to turn around a sinking ship. 

 

"What was so much better about Saturday than that first half at Parkhead?" 

 

Everything was better. Our press, our defensive line, our organisation at set pieces, our transition to counter attack, how we built attacks, our ability to win 1st and 2nd contact. Even our corners were better. Every fine detail had clearly been worked on. 

 

But of course, you clearly don't want to admit any of these things even though the rest of us can see it. 

[Cruyff]

4 minutes ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

Or even if we do win it depends on what people are available and when we need to make a decision.

 

But yes, I agree - who knows where things are behind the scenes (that said a lot of our ITK peeps are quite quiet these days).

Well of course, if there is a manager we like at another club they're not going to let him leave before the season is over. Same goes for us, why would we undermine positivity by naming a new manager at the moment or even letting the press get wind of it. 

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

1 minute ago, Cruyff said:

You can try and frame it anyway you want but you're not accepting the realities of how people work and what it takes to turn around a sinking ship. 

 

"What was so much better about Saturday than that first half at Parkhead?" 

 

Everything was better. Our press, our defensive line, our organisation at set pieces, our transition to counter attack, how we built attacks, our ability to win 1st and 2nd contact. Even our corners were better. Every fine detail had clearly been worked on. 

 

But of course, you clearly don't want to admit any of these things even though the rest of us can see it. 

I don’t care a huge amount.

 

We took the lead at Parkhead and played well the majority of the game.

We played well at the weekend but didn’t get a shot on target when on top at home. Taht used to be a key gripe.

 

Why don’t you want to see that? I am only stating facts. 

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

1 minute ago, Cruyff said:

Well of course, if there is a manager we like at another club they're not going to let him leave before the season is over. Same goes for us, why would we undermine positivity by naming a new manager at the moment or even letting the press get wind of it. 

Agree - although I will only get positive when we have a clear chance of going above Aberdeen. We are not quite there yet.

[Cruyff]

Just now, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

I don’t care a huge amount.

 

We took the lead at Parkhead and played well the majority of the game.

We played well at the weekend but didn’t get a shot on target when on top at home. Taht used to be a key gripe.

 

Why don’t you want to see that? I am only stating facts. 

You clearly do. You're arguing against a very obvious and evidenced upturn in performance because you don't want Naismith as manager but some has been who slags off his team everytime he wants sacked for an easy pay day. 

 

Celtic barely got out of their own half in the first half hour ffs! We were all over them and we had the momentum to win the game. 

[BlueRiver]

24 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

I don't think you can count the Hibs or Celtic game considering he had 4 days to get rid off Neilson ball and we were cheated off the park on Sunday. 

 

As I said the next 4 games are where results are the key thing but if we play like we have in the last two games then I have no doubt we'll get the results. 

 

And let's no bother counting the Ross County game either cos they're bottom of the league pish....

 

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

2 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

You clearly do. You're arguing against a very obvious and evidenced upturn in performance because you don't want Naismith as manager but some has been who slags off his team everytime he wants sacked for an easy pay day. 

 

Celtic barely got out of their own half in the first half hour ffs! We were all over them and we had the momentum to win the game. 

Hibs fans shout about performances not us.

 

We took the lead when competitive against Celtic at Parkhead.

 

We didn’t get a shot on target when competitive against Celtic at home.

 

Doesn’t fit the narrative but it’s true.

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

2 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

 

And let's no bother counting the Ross County game either cos they're bottom of the league pish....

 

Absolutely counted.

 

As should the home game against a much better Aberdeen team.

Edited May 9, 2023 by Tom Hardy’s Dug

[Debut 4]

2 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

You clearly do. You're arguing against a very obvious and evidenced upturn in performance because you don't want Naismith as manager but some has been who slags off his team everytime he wants sacked for an easy pay day. 

 

Celtic barely got out of their own half in the first half hour ffs! We were all over them and we had the momentum to win the game. 

Agree.  The nature of the performance was again hugely encouraging.  We were clearly pushing to create chances.  We had many good moments around the box but the key pass was missing at times.  
 

And again, it was great to see how we were creating space behind Celtic with very good movement and timing. It was the same v Ross County but this time we were playing the top team in the country.  
 

We’re starting to see more support for the likes of Oda and McKay which lets them actually have space behind their marker to go and take them on in key areas. 

 

[BlueRiver]

1 minute ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

Absolutely counted.

 

As should the home game against a much better Aberdeen team.

 

Every game he's taken charge of so far should be counted. I just found it amusing that for some reason Cruyff just wanted to dismiss the two defeats. 

[luckydug]

3 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

There certainly aren’t. Imagine we had one and lost him. 
 

as I’ve said.  We won’t have a single CV from an experienced manager who hasn’t “failed” at least once, we won’t have a single applicant from a manager who is managing a wealthier / bigger club than hearts right now we will have plenty of applicants like Dwight Yorke or other young coaches who represent a bigger gamble than naismith.

 

I maintain some of you (no pointed fingers) just want a sexy name 

The last paragraph is bang on imo👍

I'd be intrigued to know what kind of salary people think we should be offering a sexy name 😏. 

 

 

[Cruyff]

1 minute ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

Hibs fans shout about performances not us.

 

We took the lead when competitive against Celtic at Parkhead.

 

We didn’t get a shot on target when competitive against Celtic at home.

 

Doesn’t fit the narrative but it’s true.

We've played high pressing attacking football. We win more games playing that way than sitting in protecting a 1-0 lead, would you prefer that? 

 

Celtic didn't have a shot on target until we had a man sent off for **** all. 

[Cruyff]

2 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

 

Every game he's taken charge of so far should be counted. I just found it amusing that for some reason Cruyff just wanted to dismiss the two defeats. 

How very simplistic of you. 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

7 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

You clearly do. You're arguing against a very obvious and evidenced upturn in performance because you don't want Naismith as manager but some has been who slags off his team everytime he wants sacked for an easy pay day. 

 

Celtic barely got out of their own half in the first half hour ffs! We were all over them and we had the momentum to win the game. 

15 minutes before they got close to our box, penned in. Hatate shot on 23 mins started to turn the tide, but even then they were no better than even with us. 

 

Celtic actually defended pretty well through that storm and had to

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

4 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

Agree.  The nature of the performance was again hugely encouraging.  We were clearly pushing to create chances.  We had many good moments around the box but the key pass was missing at times.  
 

And again, it was great to see how we were creating space behind Celtic with very good movement and timing. It was the same v Ross County but this time we were playing the top team in the country.  
 

We’re starting to see more support for the likes of Oda and McKay which lets them actually have space behind their marker to go and take them on in key areas. 

 

The difference in McKay the last 2 games, far more encouraging along with emergence of Oda, the back 4 actually look far better organised, if not comfortable.

 

The Hibs game I would absolutely dismiss, came way too quickly in a week of turmoil. Disappointing to lose to Celtic, but while it was 11 against 11, we didnt look like losing, did we?

[Cruyff]

Just now, Lord Beni of Gorgie said:

15 minutes before they got close to our box, penned in. Hatate shot on 23 mins started to turn the tide, but even then they were no better than even with us. 

 

Celtic actually defended pretty well through that storm and had to

Yep, our defensive line was on the half way line, our central midfield was pushed up on to their deepest midfielder and our wingers onto their full backs. We forced them to take risks playing short or go long. 

 

Naisy had it spot on tactical wise until we were forced to drop after losing Cochrane. 

[Debut 4]

Just now, Lord Beni of Gorgie said:

The difference in McKay the last 2 games, far more encouraging along with emergence of Oda, the back 4 actually look far better organised, if not comfortable.

 

The Hibs game I would absolutely dismiss, came way too quickly in a week of turmoil. Disappointing to lose to Celtic, but while it was 11 against 11, we didnt look like losing, did we?

Aye.   There’s got to be context. It was shite timing but the heads were down going into the derby during a poor run.  I didn’t envy Naismith having just a few days to lift people and try to tweak the system to spurt some positivity.

 

The RC game could make a blind man see what it meant having more time on the training pitch with the players, and off it too, as he had more of a chance to get to know them better.  We continued where we left off v RC in the first half hour v Celtic.  That was good to see because it meant we had the guts and belief in our system….the manager didn’t shrink and go cautious. 

[BlueRiver]

8 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

How very simplistic of you. 

 

A bit like saying we can't count two games?

 

Course we can. Performance against Celtic was encouraging even if the result was same old. 

 

Hibs was a bloody disaster but you can argue mitigating factors. Doesn't mean it should be entirely dismissed. 

[gordon simpson]

5 hours ago, bigfatskinnyjambo97 said:

Derbies are a freak fixture and he'd only been in the job a couple of days - not really fair to judge him on that game. Ross county was phenomenal. Celtic game we were the better team until the dodgy red card. We  matched them all over the park, looked threatening on the attack and the much criticised defence was organised and solid. Anyway, it's not JUST about these three games, although he has already made a huge difference to performance levels with a team who looked liked an unfit pub team. It's also that the guy exudes passion and fight - something the last manager did not. Judging by his antics on the touchline, he demands high standards all the time, wants the game to be played with tempo/aggression and will bark at anyone who is not delivering what he wants. He also had a very esteemed playing career, something that players can respect and admire. He is also clearly a very well rated coach given the fact that Clarke brought him into the Scotland setup and that he's already getting a tune from the Hearts players. Still needs to get results in the St Mirren, Aberdeen and Hibs game for me, but if he does then it's a no brainer to be honest! His potential ceiling in management is currently uncapped, and he's shown already that he's a very promising coach. In the best case scenario if we were to appoint Neil/Wilder, who've had a ups and downs in management, then we would be getting experience, but these guys aren't exactly Pep and Jurgen. Talented managers no doubt and would probably succeed, but why break the bank on managers that have no guarantee at success if we already have someone with bags of potential and plenty of the correct attributes for management. Ofcourse, he must get results in the games mentioned above, but if he does, then it's a no brainer for me.

good post 

[GinRummy]

Just now, BlueRiver said:

 

A bit like saying we can't count two games?

 

Course we can. Performance against Celtic was encouraging even if the result was same old. 

 

Hibs was a bloody disaster but you can argue mitigating factors. Doesn't mean it should be entirely dismissed. 

I agree but after only three games the most recent one carries the most weight. 

[Dazo]

7 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

 

Every game he's taken charge of so far should be counted. I just found it amusing that for some reason Cruyff just wanted to dismiss the two defeats. 

Absolutely they should count but you can’t ignore the circumstances surrounding those defeats. Personally think expecting anything other than a defeat to Celtic with 10 men is embarrassingly unrealistic. He clearly didn’t have enough time before the hibs game to fix the dressing room and implement his plans. It isn’t a free pass for those games but there are some mitigating circumstances imo. 

[BlueRiver]

Regardless though - he's going to be head coach till the end of the season.  

 

Let's just all simmer down and not run to any hasty judgements based on a single thumping win and a decent half against Celtic. 

[BlueRiver]

1 minute ago, GinRummy said:

I agree but after only three games the most recent one carries the most weight. 

 

1 minute ago, Dazo said:

Absolutely they should count but you can’t ignore the circumstances surrounding those defeats. Personally think expecting anything other than a defeat to Celtic with 10 men is embarrassingly unrealistic. He clearly didn’t have enough time before the hibs game to fix the dressing room and implement his plans. It isn’t a free pass for those games but there are some mitigating circumstances imo. 

 

Totally agree with you both. Just think dismissing them entirely is as daft as putting ridiculous stock in them. 

 

Jury is out for me but there's positive signs for sure. Actually cannot wait to see how we get on against St Mirren and I'm gutted I need to wait till Saturday to find out. 

[BackOfTheNet]

1 hour ago, The Treasurer said:

I think most fans, at least the more rational ones, support the club above any individual, but they will give the manager and players full backing until that backing is no longer merited.

 

Well, yes you’d think that. But any thread regarding a manager shows that’s not the case. At least the last three anyway. There will still be people dragging out defence of an individual they support, and will carry that on to knock the current incumbent. It’s just those who support or knock take turns with each managerial departure.

[Dazo]

Just now, BlueRiver said:

 

 

Totally agree with you both. Just think dismissing them entirely is as daft as putting ridiculous stock in them. 

 

Jury is out for me but there's positive signs for sure. Actually cannot wait to see how we get on against St Mirren and I'm gutted I need to wait till Saturday to find out. 

Yep the St Mirren game is a big indicator for me too. I’m feeling positive about it but the performance and result will show us what he is made of. 

[fabienleclerq]

This place is mental, against hibs he had a couple of days to work with the players. We also had a big issue in terms of personnel in the middle of the park.

 

I'd also add the same person talking about shot stats v celtic is ignoring the fact we had better stats than hibs in that game.

 

The performances have been far better in a short period of time. He came into a team void of confidence and losing constantly. They appear to be buzzing and fighting again and if we don't get that red card very well may have gotten a result Saturday. 

[soonbe110]

52 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

I doubt it. I think the board will wait until the end of the season before making the decision. 

If they believe they can sign up the right candidate today they will. Otherwise they run the risk of being gazumped. 

[Naisys Tackle]

14 minutes ago, Lord Beni of Gorgie said:

The difference in McKay the last 2 games, far more encouraging along with emergence of Oda, the back 4 actually look far better organised, if not comfortable.

 

The Hibs game I would absolutely dismiss, came way too quickly in a week of turmoil. Disappointing to lose to Celtic, but while it was 11 against 11, we didnt look like losing, did we?

Plenty teams dont look like losing to them in the first half of games either.  It's impossible to guess who would have won or lost 11 v 11.    We started very well but they hadn't gotten out of second great yet.  We can judge how improved we actually are on Saturday afternoon I suppose.  The ultimate win or bust game for SN and our season.

[BackOfTheNet]

Should be said, it’s quite startling that some people are placing so much importance on a defeat to Celtic in which we were evidently screwed out of getting anything and were looking the most likely to get something out of it before the sending off.

 

I’d like to see a Venn diagram of those who the last few seasons were the first to say “what do you expect? It’s the OF. We move on” or refused to acknowledge any criticism of performance against the OF because of the opposition - and those who now place so much importance on the defeat that Naismith has against them. Would be interesting.

[BlueRiver]

1 minute ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Should be said, it’s quite startling that some people are placing so much importance on a defeat to Celtic in which we were evidently screwed out of getting anything and were looking the most likely to get something out of it before the sending off.

 

I’d like to see a Venn diagram of those who the last few seasons were the first to say “what do you expect? It’s the OF. We move on” or refused to acknowledge any criticism of performance against the OF because of the opposition - and those who now place so much importance on the defeat that Naismith has against them. Would be interesting.

 

I might be missing these posts that are placing so much import on the Celtic game in a negative way. The vast majority of folk I can see are talking in quite positive terms about that first half against Celtic. 

 

If I'm honest that's entirely why I don't believe the game should be dismissed from any assessment of Naismith. We played well until a ridiculous red card but it is still only a single 45 minutes and anything about what mightve happened if not for the red is irrelevant. 

 

 

 

 

[kingantti1874]

The good thing is, regardless of the  opinions shared on here, mine included!! in 90% sure that the board will take into account the jb that naismith does and factor that into the process. 

 

I'm 100% sure this board will not appoint a vanity manager based on name. 

 

 

[Agentjambo]

2 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

The good thing is, regardless of the  opinions shared on here, mine included!! in 90% sure that the board will take into account the jb that naismith does and factor that into the process. 

 

I'm 100% sure this board will not appoint a vanity manager based on name. 

 

 

Who mentioned anything about a “vanity manager”?