Tayside Jambo Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 54 minutes ago, Deevers said: Rumours flying about Dundee that the rug is about to be pulled from under them. Mate telling me that the owners aren't flying back to the states until they have sold the club. This was a few days before the AGM and from a reliable source from within the club. Doesn't bode well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batistuta87 Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 To be honest its hardly surprising that they’re struggling to keep their heads above water considering the wages they’ve been paying some players recently. Pretty sure I read somewhere that their wage bill was about 30% bigger than their turnover – so they are operating at a heavy, heavy loss. Mulgrew, Harkes, Watt and Levitt (and probably Fletcher) are all on daft money and they were frankly relieved when they sold Shankland because it brought some money in and by the time they played, won, and he’d scored, they were paying him upwards of £12k pw. For a club that size, that’s just mental. But an owner who has lost interest, players on big wages, stories of money drying up... All sounds very familiar doesn’t it. Trouble is, their fanbase is nothing like ours and a FUD (Foundation for the United of Dundee) (see what I did there!) won’t be big enough to save them, and won’t be big enough to go completely fan-owned and funded. With average attendances hovering around the 10k mark, they’d need every single person turning up pumping about £50 a month into the club just to cover their wage bill. Might be time to get their walking shoes and sponsor sheets out again. Tick tock lads. Tick tock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tian447 Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 15 minutes ago, Batistuta87 said: Trouble is, their fanbase is nothing like ours and a FUD (Foundation for the United of Dundee) (see what I did there!) They could go with the Dundee United Football Foundation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Magic Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 4 minutes ago, tian447 said: They could go with the Dundee United Football Foundation. Or Dundee In Crisis Keep Supporting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deevers Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 40 minutes ago, Tayside Jambo said: Mate telling me that the owners aren't flying back to the states until they have sold the club. This was a few days before the AGM and from a reliable source from within the club. Doesn't bode well. Certainly the stories I’ve heard from good sources. I wonder if the loans are secured on the ground and other fixed assets. If that is the case and they can’t find a buyer quickly that will stump up the money they are looking for it would seem to me that going into administration is likely. I have always wondered if there was some sort of plot to force one of the Dundee teams out of business and re brand the one that left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkishcap Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 They may avg 10k but around 7k is their loyal core. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May one-six Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 48 minutes ago, Tayside Jambo said: Mate telling me that the owners aren't flying back to the states until they have sold the club. This was a few days before the AGM and from a reliable source from within the club. Doesn't bode well. They might be here a while. I can't see many potential buyers on the horizon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull's-eye Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 Imagine if the SPFL grew some bollocks and actually did their jobs and monitored the wages to income ratio and sanctioned clubs accordingly before they again make a mockery of the game and sporting integrity . . . Oh yes, silly me, forgot Rangers where in the league 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Tolbooth Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 Ogren will want top dollar for the club too, laughable really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 1 hour ago, Tayside Jambo said: Mate telling me that the owners aren't flying back to the states until they have sold the club. This was a few days before the AGM and from a reliable source from within the club. Doesn't bode well. You have to wonder who would stump up the money to pay back their owners debt (and thats not counting the owner wanting to make money from the sale.) If they are desperate to move it on then maybe the debt could be forgiven, but doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayside Jambo Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 1 hour ago, Deevers said: Certainly the stories I’ve heard from good sources. I wonder if the loans are secured on the ground and other fixed assets. If that is the case and they can’t find a buyer quickly that will stump up the money they are looking for it would seem to me that going into administration is likely. I have always wondered if there was some sort of plot to force one of the Dundee teams out of business and re brand the one that left. I don't know where the loans are secured against, but as others have suggested (and I agree), there isn't likely to be a buyer on the horizon, which would suggest that if nothing is sorted in the next lets say 4-6 weeks could be a fire sale of the club and assets with admin the likely outcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 7 minutes ago, Tayside Jambo said: I don't know where the loans are secured against, but as others have suggested (and I agree), there isn't likely to be a buyer on the horizon, which would suggest that if nothing is sorted in the next lets say 4-6 weeks could be a fire sale of the club and assets with admin the likely outcome. There are no loan securities currently lodged with Companies House, so the lending is unsecured. However, should the club go into insolvency, then Mark Ogren would still be the largest creditor by some distance, so would receive the lion's share of the proceeds of a sale of the business and/or assets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayside Jambo Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 2 minutes ago, Footballfirst said: There are no loan securities currently lodged with Companies House, so the lending is unsecured. However, should the club go into insolvency, then Mark Ogren would still be the largest creditor by some distance, so would receive the lion's share of the proceeds of a sale of the business and/or assets. Wouldn't wish admin on other clubs (most anyway), but things are not looking too good for them currently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooks Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 2 hours ago, Tayside Jambo said: Mate telling me that the owners aren't flying back to the states until they have sold the club. This was a few days before the AGM and from a reliable source from within the club. Doesn't bode well. Maybe the Dundee owner will buy them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlimOzturk Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 Going to be a bigger man here and wish their fan base all the best in saving their club. Easy to jump on the bandwagon and start the tick tock chat but ultimately I have watched my own club almost go to the wall and it depressed me greatly. I wouldn’t wish it on a old traditional club like Dundee United who will have a loyal bunch of hard cores who really don’t deserve to watch their club die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTJ Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 A merged team should be called the Hilltown Hustlers. Dundee's fantasy new ground in Camperdown is no closer to happening and selling one ground to improve the other makes sense, I remember the dodgy brothers that owned Dundee once saying the Hilltown is dangerous - after a foreign player agitating for money he was due was beaten up by "anonymous men" and there were no witnesses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooks Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said: Going to be a bigger man here and wish their fan base all the best in saving their club. Easy to jump on the bandwagon and start the tick tock chat but ultimately I have watched my own club almost go to the wall and it depressed me greatly. I wouldn’t wish it on a old traditional club like Dundee United who will have a loyal bunch of hard cores who really don’t deserve to watch their club die. I find it very difficult to have any sympathy towards them after the way they behaved when we were in bother , plus them voting against reconstruction . Plenty Dundee United fans used to give it the cheeturz chat when our finances were a mess and they were our closest rivals for third . Would never lift a finger to help cause their demise but would never lift a finger to help either Edited February 23, 2023 by Sooks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 6 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said: Going to be a bigger man here and wish their fan base all the best in saving their club. Easy to jump on the bandwagon and start the tick tock chat but ultimately I have watched my own club almost go to the wall and it depressed me greatly. I wouldn’t wish it on a old traditional club like Dundee United who will have a loyal bunch of hard cores who really don’t deserve to watch their club die. Boo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 I think if you were to merge the two teams, to form a new name, you take what both have in common, Dundee, and because you are bringing together the two teams, so uniting the two if you will, they should have the word United, so it will become Dundee Unite....oh wait. Seriously though, I always thought the best way to get round the names is to call them Dundee City. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlimOzturk Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 5 minutes ago, Sooks said: I find it very difficult to have any sympathy towards them after the way they behaved when we were in bother , plus them voting against reconstruction . Plenty Dundee United fans used to give it the cheeturz chat when our finances were a mess and they were our closest rivals for third . Would never lift a finger to help cause their demise but would never lift a finger to help either Again it’s just my feelings towards it. I totally get why fans would glee In their demise. However, having experienced myself I couldn’t wish it on another club. Scottish footballs better with the tangerines and the Dundee rivalry in it imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deevers Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 11 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said: Going to be a bigger man here and wish their fan base all the best in saving their club. Easy to jump on the bandwagon and start the tick tock chat but ultimately I have watched my own club almost go to the wall and it depressed me greatly. I wouldn’t wish it on a old traditional club like Dundee United who will have a loyal bunch of hard cores who really don’t deserve to watch their club die. I admire your magnanimity, however for me they were amongst those that wished us nothing but ill will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooks Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 1 minute ago, AlimOzturk said: Again it’s just my feelings towards it. I totally get why fans would glee In their demise. However, having experienced myself I couldn’t wish it on another club. Scottish footballs better with the tangerines and the Dundee rivalry in it imo. I dont really disagree with you , I just don’t have any sympathy after the way they behaved . I wasnt always like this but I believe in treating people the way they treat me and I just scale that up to football Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 1 hour ago, The Old Tolbooth said: Ogren will want top dollar for the club too, laughable really Not really. He won’t expect anyone to take on the current debt. He will probably accept any sort of offer if he can just stop his own financial haemorrhaging on DUF by getting out. Assuming his ownership includes the stadium then the value of the land is probably all he will be looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 10 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said: I think if you were to merge the two teams, to form a new name, you take what both have in common, Dundee, and because you are bringing together the two teams, so uniting the two if you will, they should have the word United, so it will become Dundee Unite....oh wait. Seriously though, I always thought the best way to get round the names is to call them Dundee City. That just gets shortened to Dundee so won’t work. Would need some thing completely different like Tay City. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbee647 Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 All rivalries aside, I always loved watching Dundee Utd on Midweek Scotsport and Sportscene when for a number of years in 1980s they put many of Europes top sides to the sword, a fantastic side, Paul Sturrock at one point was easily the outstanding player in Scotland Barcelona, Monaco, PSV, BMG and Roma all beaten at Tannadice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMFC01 Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 Dundee Walkathon FC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooks Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 2 minutes ago, soonbe110 said: That just gets shortened to Dundee so won’t work. Would need some thing completely different like Tay City. Tay tay tay tay tay-tay-tay-tay-tay-tay-tay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Cockade Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 Hope they pull through for the sake of their supporters Not sure why anybody would want their team to go under Outside the Old Firm all the fans in Scotland are all just ordinary people wanting their team to do well Most clubs, ourselves included have been taken over at some point by people who should never be in charge of a Scottish football club but that's not the fan's fault Don't want to see any club going under although Scottish football would be well rid of the Uglies and their horrible sectarian histories and bigoted fans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas-voss Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 (edited) On 21/02/2023 at 18:19, davemclaren said: To be fair, the premier league was very successful in the first ten years in terms of widening the competion to win as Aberdeen and Dundee UTD both won it. However, the old firm starting to really utilise their financial muscle in the mid 80s has resulted in no-one but the OF winning it since. I doubt reconstruction will make much of a dent in that. Murray coming to Rangers changed everything and not for the better Edited February 23, 2023 by vegas-voss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S Form Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 They were absolutely desperate to demote us after the Covid season, so I have no sympathy at all for their current plight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debut 4 Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 19 hours ago, Swimmer said: Just want to pick you up on a few points. national squads do not train at Stirling Uni as a matter of course. It is however the base for Uni of Stirling. Scottish Swimming do have their headquarters at the Uni. The pool is a 50m 6 lane pool. Commonwealth pool has undergone a massive renovation (with exception of the ceiling which is protected) and is a great facility with an 8 lane Olympic 50m pool, diving pit that turns into a 6 lane 25m pool as does the small teaching pool (4lane 25m) Dundee’s Olympia is closed due to tiles falling off and council has no budget to repair for now. yes Scotland has produced some world class swimmers over the past 12 - 16 years but much of this is down to the quality of coaching as well as the support structure for Uni teams such as nutritionists, physiotherapists, strength and conditioning as well as more technology for testing Lactate blood levels and camera systems for technical development. the Americans train in a 25yard pool most of the season and not having 50m pools to train in is not a deal breaker, it helps. facilities help but world class coaching overcomes most of that Exactly. We’ve got Robbie Neilson, so let’s close the Academy and go back to training at Roseburn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batistuta87 Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 (edited) 45 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said: Going to be a bigger man here and wish their fan base all the best in saving their club. Easy to jump on the bandwagon and start the tick tock chat but ultimately I have watched my own club almost go to the wall and it depressed me greatly. I wouldn’t wish it on a old traditional club like Dundee United who will have a loyal bunch of hard cores who really don’t deserve to watch their club die. Nah. **** 'em. Get the Calpol oot. They'll never fold completely but I would like them to be relegated or to do a full Rangers and go under then start again from the bottom - but from the relegation pish to the court case to the sponsored walk to Lewis Neilson compo and a few other things in between, they can ram it. Edited February 23, 2023 by Batistuta87 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EIEIO Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 34 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said: Again it’s just my feelings towards it. I totally get why fans would glee In their demise. However, having experienced myself I couldn’t wish it on another club. Scottish footballs better with the tangerines and the Dundee rivalry in it imo. Agree with this decent sized club in Scotland so should be in the top league to make it stronger. Livi for example I wouldn't miss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fxxx the SPFL Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Debut 4 said: Exactly. We’ve got Robbie Neilson, so let’s close the Academy and go back to training at Roseburn I remember taking my son to Pinkie School, Musselburgh to watch players train years ago Edited February 23, 2023 by Fxxx the SPFL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glamorgan Jambo Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 Regarding Dundee Utd the guy who wrote and produced the current BBC Series about the Brinks Mat raid and follow up is a huge Dundee Utd fan. Called Neil Forsyth. I watched the whole series on the I Player and as well as the high profile given to Tannadice Film (Forsyth's production company) there is a scene where a motley crew of potential time share salesmen/women include a guy in a Dundee Utd top and at one point the lead detective walks in on one of the cons and his guard watching a Dundee Utd game (I think it was vs Barcelona). Tremedous writing and entertainment Regarding Utd and Dundee I've always thought that the interest of the American owners was in some sort of land sale and combined stadium (probably built with a lot of public money). We'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 On 21/02/2023 at 18:14, OTT said: I'd like Hearts to reignite those talks. We're not coming from a position that can be characterised as weakness anymore, and I think some excellent points could be made to really push the issue. Ultimately, it would benefit the whole of Scottish football to have an expanded top flight. It wouldn't though, there are teams treading water in the premier league who need the extra home games against the uglies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 On 21/02/2023 at 18:14, OTT said: I'd like Hearts to reignite those talks. We're not coming from a position that can be characterised as weakness anymore, and I think some excellent points could be made to really push the issue. Ultimately, it would benefit the whole of Scottish football to have an expanded top flight. It wouldn't though, there are teams treading water in the premier league who need the extra home games against the uglies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Sifter Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 On 21/02/2023 at 22:55, Deid Heid said: Thought East Fife supported us as well? But yer right, gey few. Partick Thistle Inverness Caley Thistle Stranraer East Fife Falkirk Edinburgh City AKA The Good Guy List 👍🏼 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooks Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 1 minute ago, graygo said: It wouldn't though, there are teams treading water in the premier league who need the extra home games against the uglies. Conversely if they were relegated in to an expanded second tier playing for more promotion spots that would lead to an expanded top tier full of smaller clubs making up the bottom two thirds , then they would probably not be out of the top flight very long Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debut 4 Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 18 minutes ago, **** the SPFL said: I remember taking my son to Pinkie School, Musselburgh to watch players train years ago Think that’s where JJ had them training quite often? I can remember back in the 80s watching the team train at Roseburn 👍🏻 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTT Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 4 minutes ago, graygo said: It wouldn't though, there are teams treading water in the premier league who need the extra home games against the uglies. Then they should adjust their budgets. If you’re dependent on away fans to subsidise your spending, you’re living outside of your means. Also, more clubs in the league with less financial clout would reduce the need for clubs like St Johnstone to overspend as the likelihood of relegation would be reduced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 (edited) 51 minutes ago, soonbe110 said: That just gets shortened to Dundee so won’t work. Would need some thing completely different like Tay City. Get Raith in the bin too, merge all 3 and call the Tay City Rovers. Edited February 23, 2023 by graygo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Striker Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 20 minutes ago, Glamorgan Jambo said: Regarding Dundee Utd the guy who wrote and produced the current BBC Series about the Brinks Mat raid and follow up is a huge Dundee Utd fan. Called Neil Forsyth. I watched the whole series on the I Player and as well as the high profile given to Tannadice Film (Forsyth's production company) there is a scene where a motley crew of potential time share salesmen/women include a guy in a Dundee Utd top and at one point the lead detective walks in on one of the cons and his guard watching a Dundee Utd game (I think it was vs Barcelona). Tremedous writing and entertainment Regarding Utd and Dundee I've always thought that the interest of the American owners was in some sort of land sale and combined stadium (probably built with a lot of public money). We'll see. The only 2 celeb fans I know of are Ricky Ross and Lorraine Kelly, no idea if either of them would be interested in being part of a buyout though. There's probably a few very wealthy young locals who've made their fortune on the back of the computer games industry. A lot of wealthy folk living in the hinterland too - Monifeith, Carnoustie, etc. In light of the Football Regulator proposal being touted in England to safeguard clubs from dodgy takeovers and give fans more of a voice to object to the way their club is being run, one can only wonder what a Scottish Football Regulator would have done about the American takeovers at Hibs, and the 2 Dundee clubs. Romanov too. As for the club formerly known as Rangers though ..... 😃 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 21 minutes ago, Sooks said: Conversely if they were relegated in to an expanded second tier playing for more promotion spots that would lead to an expanded top tier full of smaller clubs making up the bottom two thirds , then they would probably not be out of the top flight very long Aye but that would require them not to take a short sighted viewpoint, not happening anytime soon unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCrae Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 Serious chance they will fold and disappear forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malinga the Swinga Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 18 hours ago, Led Tasso said: That's why I'm saying they should swap with the sporting facility a few blocks to the east (the "DISC" I think it's called). They two full-sized pitches side by side that would be plenty big enough for a 17,000 or so seat stadium. On closer inspection one of them is a field hocky pitch, I guess, so I suppose that would have to be accommodated. Still, I'd call that a far superior site than going all the way out to Camperdown. Having played many times there, I'd say keep your hands off it. It would need massive investment as it's barely usable for hockey and getting in and out isn't the easiest. Easiest and best solution is to let both clubs die and a new club can be born playing in a public park in local Sunday league. Their fans and directors deserve nothing less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malinga the Swinga Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 (edited) 16 minutes ago, McCrae said: Serious chance they will fold and disappear forever. Fingers crossed it happens soon. Edited February 23, 2023 by Malinga the Swinga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malinga the Swinga Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 14 hours ago, martoon said: The possibilities are endless, TJ, and none of them complimentary. 😊 City Unified Newstart Tinker startup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyCant Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, S Form said: They were absolutely desperate to demote us after the Covid season, so I have no sympathy at all for their current plight. They’d have stayed in the championship if we hadn’t been demoted. (Without reconstruction) It’s completely understandable in their case to vote against us because they had more or less secured promotion on the pitch where it counts. Sorry but they deserved to go up. You’d be better looking at clubs who had nothing to gain, one in particular who lost a fair bit of money by voting against us Edited February 23, 2023 by JimmyCant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooks Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, JimmyCant said: They’d have stayed in the championship if we hadn’t been demoted. (Without reconstruction) It’s completely understandable in their case to vote against us because they had more or less secured promotion on the pitch where it counts. Sorry but they deserved to go up. You’d be better looking at clubs who had nothing to gain, one in particular who lost a fair bit of money by voting against us They voted against reconstruction despite it being of no benefit to them to do so . When they voted to end the season , they shut down exploring other options for ending the season . Yet again you stand there pretending to be Hearts and shouting as loud as you can against them I do not believe you are a Hearts supporter , but that is just my personal opinion Edited February 23, 2023 by Sooks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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