Lucy Letby Trial

[AndyNic]

Haven't seen a thread on this topic so apologies if I've missed it.

 

New information released today that Lucy Letby was interrupted by the mother of one of her victims who paid her baby boy a visit at the hospital while attacking him and she didn't realise. Lucy told her to "trust me I'm a nurse".

 

Sickening. 

[AndyNic]

Apparently the trail could last up to SIX months.

 

How can these trials go on for so long?

[periodictabledancer]

10 minutes ago, AndyNic said:

Apparently the trail could last up to SIX months.

 

How can these trials go on for so long?

A lot (if not most) of the evidence is curcumstancial so there's going to be lot of  x-examining of expert witnesses. 

[Victorian]

10 minutes ago, AndyNic said:

Apparently the trail could last up to SIX months.

 

How can these trials go on for so long?

 

Horrendously long trial for the jury,  to add to the content of it.  Quite a high chance of juror(s) having to be excused for one reason or another.  It's high profile as well do there's the possible danger of a juror speaking / social media posting about it mid-trial.  This is one that would be suited to a quasi-professional,  retained lay-juror system.  

[JudyJudyJudy]

What a horrible case .  Parents thinking their babies were in the safest place possible being cared for.  Thankfully its very rare.  

[Pap]

I cant put her face to these crimes.

 

She looks the most caring person in the world.

 

Horrible horrible stuff.

[Lone Striker]

16 hours ago, Pap said:

I cant put her face to these crimes.

 

She looks the most caring person in the world.

 

Horrible horrible stuff.

 

22 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

What a horrible case .  Parents thinking their babies were in the safest place possible being cared for.  Thankfully its very rare.  

 

16 hours ago, Pap said:

I cant put her face to these crimes.

 

She looks the most caring person in the world.

 

Horrible horrible stuff.

 

 

Paediatric equivalent of Harold Shipman.     He seemed to have been loved and trusted by all his victims - it took decades to uncover his crimes.

 

As you say, scenarios like Letby & Shipman seem to be very rare - but impossible to comprehend  when one comes to light.   

[Cade]

Every day another horrifying bit of testimony.

It's enough to make me want to not read about it again until the verdict in a few month's time.

[Victorian]

Multiple attempts to murder the same baby.  Murder of siblings.  Stalking grieving parents,  inc. sending sympathy cards.  Retained images of cards.

 

My word.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Got the potential to be one of the country’s most infamous criminal cases 

[That thing you do]

Yep, Lucy Letby doesnt seem to have the lost eyes many killers do, or the psychological issues either. She seemed to carry on like any ordinary person and led a normal life. If she is convicted this is going to take a hell of alot of explaining. Why kill? Why now? Why babies?

 

Its crazy to think this could be the next Myra Hindley. No question shes never getting out if shes guilty.

 

 

[milky_26]

19 hours ago, Pap said:

I cant put her face to these crimes.

 

She looks the most caring person in the world.

 

Horrible horrible stuff.

ted bundy i believe was a handsome, charismatic person. not how tv and film portray serial killers

[Malinga the Swinga]

She hasn't been convicted yet. A heck of a lot of evidence to go through, including why no hospital board had a clue what was happening in front of their eyes. Too busy counting beans and filling in customer satisfaction surveys I assume.

[Ked]

I'd imagine background checks are already in place for the position she held.

But would it be so difficult to have psychological  evaluation for such a sensitive position?

Given this isn't the first example of such criminality.

[Victorian]

One of the main elements of the prosecution's opening remarks was the so-called common denominator of one sole person being present at every fatality and near fatality.  It wouldn't need much of a computer algorithm to identify individuals of interest if the will existed.

[JFK-1]

Sounds like the Beverley Allit case. For any of you who may not have heard of her.

 

Quote

Beverley Gail Allitt (born 4 October 1968) is an English serial child killer who was convicted of murdering four children, attempting to murder three other children, and causing grievous bodily harm to a further six.

 

The crimes were committed over a period of 59 days from February to April 1991 in the children's ward at Grantham and Kesteven Hospital, Lincolnshire, where Allitt was employed as a State Enrolled Nurse.

 

She allegedly administered large doses of insulin to at least two of her victims, and a large air bubble was found in the body of another, but police were unable to establish how all the attacks were carried out.

In May 1993, at Nottingham Crown Court, she received thirteen life sentences for the crimes. Mr Justice Latham, sentencing, told Allitt that she was "a serious danger" to others and was unlikely ever to be considered safe enough to be released. She is detained at Rampton Secure Hospital in Nottinghamshire.

Allitt is now eligible for release on parole because her minimum tariff of 30 years' imprisonment expired in November 2021.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beverley_Allitt

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

13 hours ago, That thing you do said:

Yep, Lucy Letby doesnt seem to have the lost eyes many killers do, or the psychological issues either. She seemed to carry on like any ordinary person and led a normal life. If she is convicted this is going to take a hell of alot of explaining. Why kill? Why now? Why babies?

 

Its crazy to think this could be the next Myra Hindley. No question shes never getting out if shes guilty.

 

 

Maybe there is no explanation  ? Maybe she’s just a nasty person ( I don’t use the word “ evil “ as that has religious connotations ) 

[JudyJudyJudy]

14 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Got the potential to be one of the country’s most infamous criminal cases 

I like , if that’s the correct term my criminal trials . Especially if they take place at the Old Bailey . I’ve read loads of them.  Dr Crippen , Madam Fahay , George “ Brides in the bath “ Joseph Smith  , Edith Thompson , Derek Bentley , Timothy Evans et al but I’m avoiding this one really . It’s just awful to even think about . 

Edited October 13, 2022 by JudyJudyJudy

[JFK-1]

4 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Maybe there is no explanation  ? Maybe she’s just a nasty person ( I don’t use the word “ evil “ as that has religious connotations ) 

 

Quote from the wiki article.

 

Allitt's motives have never been fully explained. According to one theory, she showed symptoms of a factitious disorder; specifically, factitious disorder imposed on another, also known as Munchausen syndrome by proxy.

This disorder is described as involving a pattern of abuse in which a perpetrator ascribes symptoms to, or physically falsifies illnesses in, someone under their care in order to attract attention to themselves.

 

I saw documentaries about her years ago after the case and she does fit the bill of that syndrome they apply to her. It involves attention seeking, often first manifesting itself while they're young in the form of pretending to be ill or self inflicting injury then saying it was an accident.

 

There are loads of documentaries about her.

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

5 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

Quote from the wiki article.

 

Allitt's motives have never been fully explained. According to one theory, she showed symptoms of a factitious disorder; specifically, factitious disorder imposed on another, also known as Munchausen syndrome by proxy.

This disorder is described as involving a pattern of abuse in which a perpetrator ascribes symptoms to, or physically falsifies illnesses in, someone under their care in order to attract attention to themselves.

 

I saw documentaries about her years ago after the case and she does fit the bill of that syndrome they apply to her. It involves attention seeking, often first manifesting itself while they're young in the form of pretending to be ill or self inflicting injury then saying it was an accident.

 

There are loads of documentaries about her.

 

 

It’s a very odd phenomena and I have had the displeasure a few years back to meet someone who had this . 

[JFK-1]

7 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

It’s a very odd phenomena and I have had the displeasure a few years back to meet someone who had this . 

 

Out of curiosity did this individual invent stories about themselves? That was another feature of Beverley Allit's attention seeking to the extent her boyfriends nickname for her was the fable.

[JudyJudyJudy]

5 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

Out of curiosity did this individual invent stories about themselves? That was another feature of Beverley Allit's attention seeking to the extent her boyfriends nickname for her was the fable.

 Not sure haven’t read much about this case 

[hughesie27]

 

[AndyNic]

 

 

 

 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

16 minutes ago, AndyNic said:

 

 

 

 

jesus. That is seriously disturbed

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Makes you wonder if she’s had a disturbed episode and killed a baby and then, because she’s done it once, she’s spiralled and carried on doing it again and again. If she’s found guilty she’ll be cast as one of the worst serial killers in history 

[Unknown user]

On 12/10/2022 at 19:27, Malinga the Swinga said:

She hasn't been convicted yet. A heck of a lot of evidence to go through, including why no hospital board had a clue what was happening in front of their eyes. Too busy counting beans and filling in customer satisfaction surveys I assume.

 

[jambo89]

Just catching up on some of this trial. The hand written notes were truly disturbing and possibly speaks of some serious mental health issues.

[been here before]

I've been keeping half an eye in this as its went along and the thing thats struck me about it is how much under the radar the story seems to have been reported.

 

You've a young white, blonde haired, prettyish looking female nurse accused of murdering seven babies and attempting to murder 10 babies more. Concerns raised from Drs, handwritten confessions...

 

That kind of stuff is normally tabloid / 24 hr news channel heaven but there really doesnt seem to be an awful lot been mentioned on it.

 

Even the JKB Experts On Everything have been very quiet on it. Victorian has only posted on it 3 times for example.

Edited May 2, 2023 by been here before

[Portable Badger]

I believe she is only starting to give evidence today - now everyone has heard the allegations/prosecution evidence they might start to increase the coverage during her defence arguments.

[Portable Badger]

14 minutes ago, been here before said:

I've been keeping half an eye in this as its went along and the thing thats struck me about it is how much under the radar the story seems to have been reported.

 

You've a young white, blonde haired, prettyish looking female nurse accused of murdering seven babies and attempting to murder 10 babies more. Concerns raised from Drs, handwritten confessions...

 

That kind of stuff is normally tabloid / 24 hr news channel heaven but there really doesnt seem to be an awful lot been mentioned on it.

 

Even the JKB Experts On Everything have been very quiet on it. Victorian has only posted on it 3 times for example.

Case like this, the allegations and length of evidence submission if the tabloids had been sensationalist in their coverage then the defence team could reasonably argue the jury could have been swayed thus not providing a fair trial.

[il Duce McTarkin]

33 minutes ago, been here before said:

 

Even the JKB Experts On Everything have been very quiet on it. Victorian has only posted on it 3 times for example.

 

Almost as incredible as the crimes themselves. 

 

 

 

Edited May 2, 2023 by Dirk McTarkin

[Armageddon]

I did wonder why it was so hush hush, it's been going on for so long too.  Maybe to try and stop copy cat situations, maybe out of respect to the families - but the media have the 'respect' page ripped out of their dictionary's.

[Mikey1874]

1 hour ago, jambo89 said:

Just catching up on some of this trial. The hand written notes were truly disturbing and possibly speaks of some serious mental health issues.

 

That's a lot of catching up for a trial ongoing for over 6 months. 

[Armageddon]

Turns out there are actually many media restrictions on the case

[John Findlay]

8 minutes ago, Armageddon said:

Turns out there are actually many media restrictions on the case

I'm not surprised. Once the case is over and say the nurse is found guilty then I'm sure the restrictions or most of them will be lifted.

If the nurse is found not guilty then I expect many of the restrictions to remain in place.

[Cruyff]

Very strange case. A young, intelligent, well to do lassie, killing babies (allegedly). Just can't get my head around it. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

She does sound seriously mentally ill

[kila]

If she did what she's accused of, I'd consider her a lost cause and lock her up for life and throw away the key. I can't imagine what the parents of the babies are having to go through, sickening really.

 

[Tynecastle_Park]

Reading the court proceedings each day and have to say I don't think she's guilty.

 

Actually suprised she is even at trial - the evidence until now is flimsy at best.

 

If she is innocent, her life is ruined anyway.

[tian447]

6 minutes ago, Tynecastle_Park said:

Reading the court proceedings each day and have to say I don't think she's guilty.

 

Actually suprised she is even at trial - the evidence until now is flimsy at best.

 

If she is innocent, her life is ruined anyway.

 

Guilty or not, there are still some very odd behavioural aspects for someone in such a profession.  Looking up patients/family members on Facebook for one example.

 

The handwritten notes and diary entries are genuinely disturbing, and although are not a confession, they should be scrutinised more than the following: 

 

Mr Myers refers to a different part of the note which reads "I killed them on purpose because I'm not good enough".

"When you say killed them on purpose does that mean you've gone and done something intentionally?"

"No."

Asked what she meant, Letby says: "That I haven't been good enough and that I've somehow failed in my duties and my competencies."

 

Not joking, but that is one flimsy explanation of a fairly significant thing to sit down and write.

[Tynecastle_Park]

2 minutes ago, tian447 said:

 

Guilty or not, there are still some very odd behavioural aspects for someone in such a profession.  Looking up patients/family members on Facebook for one example.

 

The handwritten notes and diary entries are genuinely disturbing, and although are not a confession, they should be scrutinised more than the following: 

 

Mr Myers refers to a different part of the note which reads "I killed them on purpose because I'm not good enough".

"When you say killed them on purpose does that mean you've gone and done something intentionally?"

"No."

Asked what she meant, Letby says: "That I haven't been good enough and that I've somehow failed in my duties and my competencies."

 

Not joking, but that is one flimsy explanation of a fairly significant thing to sit down and write.

 

I know, I read that. However, it seems to me she (and you) she was unwell mentally and sometimes you write crazy feelings just to help release them as such. 

 

It's far, far reaching to consider it a confession when you take into account of the other writings on the same note

[tian447]

17 minutes ago, Tynecastle_Park said:

 

I know, I read that. However, it seems to me she (and you) she was unwell mentally and sometimes you write crazy feelings just to help release them as such. 

 

It's far, far reaching to consider it a confession when you take into account of the other writings on the same note

 

At the absolute very least, it should raise a far bigger study into the mental health of medical workers in this country.

 

Staff have to work exceptionally long shifts, multiple days in a row, often over weekends, doing the job of multiple people because of shortages, under extreme (literally life and death) pressures at times, and yet we expect them to just toddle off home, sleep it off, and get right back to it the next day.  Regardless of how you are told to not form emotional connections, the reality is that people aren't robots, and the staff have to deal with patients in their care deteriorating and dying in front of them, and they regularly get abuse from patients and/or families.  Shouting, screaming, demanding.  You can easily understand why it wears people down and cracks begin to widen.

 

The whole system needs reform, regardless of the outcome of this trial.  

[tian447]

And before anyone else jumps in and assumes that is some sort of white knight attempt at defending her, it really isn't.

 

She could have done it, but also she might not have.

[Tynecastle_Park]

4 minutes ago, tian447 said:

And before anyone else jumps in and assumes that is some sort of white knight attempt at defending her, it really isn't.

 

She could have done it, but also she might not have.

 

I agree.

[Sooperstar]

2 hours ago, tian447 said:

 

Guilty or not, there are still some very odd behavioural aspects for someone in such a profession.  Looking up patients/family members on Facebook for one example.

 

The handwritten notes and diary entries are genuinely disturbing, and although are not a confession, they should be scrutinised more than the following: 

 

Mr Myers refers to a different part of the note which reads "I killed them on purpose because I'm not good enough".

"When you say killed them on purpose does that mean you've gone and done something intentionally?"

"No."

Asked what she meant, Letby says: "That I haven't been good enough and that I've somehow failed in my duties and my competencies."

 

Not joking, but that is one flimsy explanation of a fairly significant thing to sit down and write.

That's her lawyer asking the questions though, so he isn't exactly going to be holding her feet to the fire. She'll get a much tougher time when it comes to cross examination. 

 

Gut feeling for me is that she done it but is found not guilty. 

[doctor jambo]

23 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

She does sound seriously mentally ill

Only because she’s a woman.

If that was a dude, you’d just reckon he was an evil psycho

[Irufushi]

Killed numerous babies and ruined countless lives in those families involved and who will never get over it. A Vile, evil individual. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

3 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Only because she’s a woman.

If that was a dude, you’d just reckon he was an evil psycho

isn’t that seriously mentally ill?

[Hungry hippo]

5 hours ago, Sooperstar said:

That's her lawyer asking the questions though, so he isn't exactly going to be holding her feet to the fire. She'll get a much tougher time when it comes to cross examination. 

 

Gut feeling for me is that she done it but is found not guilty. 

 

I'll be amazed if she found not guilty. Just my opinion of how it appears to be going.