***Official Celtic v Heart of Midlothian match thread***

[Thomaso]

22 minutes ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

So doesn’t that make it a conspiracy?

Celtic players would not have received two red card today! Conspiracy? Go figure!

[Fozzyonthefence]

15 minutes ago, OldGorgie said:

 

Try again!  I already explained what point that was in response to.

[RustyRightPeg]

1 hour ago, Waterboy said:

 

Which is fair enough, that's a valid argument. 

 

Committing a similar amount of fouls doesn't mean we should have had a similar amount of cards. 

I know that unless it becomes one of those where once a ref starts dishing them out for the smallest thing and sets himself a precedent.

[Thomaso]

1 minute ago, RustyRightPeg said:

I know that unless it becomes one of those where once a ref starts dishing them out for the smallest thing and sets himself a precedent.

Only a precedent for Hearts players!

[Doc Rob]

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/celtic/celtic-receive-fewest-cards-per-fouls-in-scottish-premiership-as-hibs-among-the-most-punished-3621589
 

Now I found this interesting. Celtic are way out in front of the ‘fouls per card’ league, with 9.63. Rangers* are second (no surprises there) with 6.45, but the surprising thing is that they are only just ahead of the pack - everyone else is between 6.18 and 5.11. I worked out that Celtic get to make 70% more fouls per card than the average for the rest of the 11 teams.

 

Now, never mind that the Sevco conspiracists would love this (because fairness, as far as OF fans are concerned, means fairness between two teams). I find this fascinating. Celtic aren’t just an outlier here, they are so far away from everyone else that it is hard to envisage this occurring by chance. Naturally, Celtic fans will claim it’s because they commit far fewer bad fouls than everyone else (as they rapidly did when I posted this on Twitter). But is this really a plausible explanation for a difference that huge? If they were somewhere around 7, maybe, but 9.63 stretches the bounds of plausibility when you can just about cover all the other teams with a blanket.

Edited August 21, 2022 by Doc Rob

[Hearts of Vladland]

The McGregor foul was a text book yellow, he got two hands on Haring stopping him from breaking away with the ball. I would guess about 80% of Celtics fouls in general are within the first 10 seconds of them losing the ball, it breaks up teams counter attacks yet they are never punished as it will be in the oppositions half.

[Ked]

1 hour ago, Churchill Barrier said:

We need to have a better ambition than that to move forward.  No shots on target 31 % possession. I cant think of any team coming to Tynescastle in recent years with pathetic stats like that.

People  are happy we didn't get hammered. For me we haven't got close to any improvements from last seasons glasgow performances. ( So far)

Mate we don't have 25 x the budget of other teams.

I'm not happy about feeling relieved it was only 2-0.

Our record against them is embarrassing.

I remember when Neilson brought us up from the championship .

One of the things I hoped he would do was steady the ship against Celtic.We shipped goals in the previous seasons like water.

He did that .

It's not been great.But we have took them at Tynecastle.

If Celtic had went away to a team with 25x their budget and played half their regulars it would be viewed as a positive.

I get your frustration though.

 

[Doc Rob]

1 hour ago, Waterboy said:

 

Which is fair enough, that's a valid argument. 

 

Committing a similar amount of fouls doesn't mean we should have had a similar amount of cards. 

Maybe not. Is is (just about) possible that despite a similar foul count, all of our fouls were worse. It just isn’t very likely, and if you generalise that over a season (as the article I quoted above does) then it becomes less likely still.

 

I’m sorry, I simply don’t accept ‘Celtic players commit fewer bad fouls’ as an explanation for their fouls-per-card being 170% of the average of the other 11 teams. Particularly in view of the face that Rangers* aren’t way out ahead too, which if this all down to the team with classier players not having to commit cynical fouls, you would certainly expect (this has always been the argument for OF teams getting more penalties, as they spend more time attacking).

[OldGorgie]

34 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Try again!  I already explained what point that was in response to.

Methinks you protest to much. 

[OldGorgie]

37 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

Celtic players would not have received two red card today! Conspiracy? Go figure!

Sad that there are a hardcore of so-called supporters that can’t see the obvious bias in officials when we play the OF.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

And people think VAR will help address this?

 

[JimmyCant]

42 minutes ago, Smithee said:

I noticed young Connor Smith got torn in when he came on. I'd like to see more of what he can bring on the ball, but he certainly wasn't intimidated by the midfield battle.

I thought he made quite a lot of his opportunity. Certainly enough to be kept around Hearts first team this season. Hope he doesn’t get put on loan. Him and Pollock. Can’t remember the last time we loaned a player out and he came back first team ready anyway.

[Fozzyonthefence]

6 minutes ago, OldGorgie said:

Methinks you protest to much. 

What am I protesting about exactly?  

[OldGorgie]

3 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

What am I protesting about exactly?  

M8 your having a nightmare with comments on the officials today. By your own admission you didn’t watch the game yet adopt a holier than thou when it’s obvious the officials were bias. Try reading all the other posts.

[Thomaso]

13 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

And people think VAR will help address this?

 

Not a chance! It will be the same retired OF biased referees that will be judging VAR footage! 🤷‍♂️

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1 minute ago, Thomaso said:

Not a chance! It will be the same retired OF biased referees that will be judging VAR footage! 🤷‍♂️

[Thomaso]

15 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

I thought he made quite a lot of his opportunity. Certainly enough to be kept around Hearts first team this season. Hope he doesn’t get put on loan. Him and Pollock. Can’t remember the last time we loaned a player out and he came back first team ready anyway.

Jamie Walker but that was a long time ago!

[Fozzyonthefence]

1 minute ago, OldGorgie said:

M8 your having a nightmare with comments on the officials today. By your own admission you didn’t watch the game yet adopt a holier than thou when it’s obvious the officials were bias. Try reading all the other posts.

Try reading my original one.  It really wasn’t difficult to understand but clearly you’re either having trouble with it or you didn’t bother reading it. Or you really do believe that Clancy was hand picked to referee today’s game because the SFA / SPFL are genuinely concerned that Hearts might win the league this season?  It’s laughable, batshit crazy paranoia even by JKB standards, you don’t need to watch a game to reach that conclusion.  And that is a completely different point to the general one about referee bias.  If you can’t see the difference then there’s no point debating any further with you. 

[Francis Albert]

9 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

Not a chance! It will be the same retired OF biased referees that will be judging VAR footage! 🤷‍♂️

Of course. They just get a second bite at making the wrong decision

 

 

[Francis Albert]

2 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Try reading my original one.  It really wasn’t difficult to understand but clearly you’re either having trouble with it or you didn’t bother reading it. Or you really do believe that Clancy was hand picked to referee today’s game because the SFA / SPFL are genuinely concerned that Hearts might win the league this season?  It’s laughable, batshit crazy paranoia even by JKB standards, you don’t need to watch a game to reach that conclusion.  And that is a completely different point to the general one about referee bias.  If you can’t see the difference then there’s no point debating any further with you. 

They are not concerned about Hearts winning the league. They are terrified of showing any supposed bias towards one or other of the OF by giving Rangers or Celtic's opponents a better deal than they give the other half of the OF.

[Fozzyonthefence]

2 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

They are not concerned about Hearts winning the league. They are terrified of showing any supposed bias towards one or other of the OF by giving Rangers or Celtic's opponents a better deal than they give the other half of the OF.

Correct.

[Sherbet]

Not read all the posts    but the referee can justify all our cards , tho some maybe soft,  what he can't justify is not booking mcgregor when he hauled haring and the amount of times a celtic player was called offside but continued to play the ball forward.  If we had done that when 1 goal up we would have been booked for time wasting. All very subtle.  But when you get a clancy referring celtic and colum rangers what do you expect.

[No Idle Talk]

Seems to be a lot of talk about Kevin Clancy going on so I will give my two cents. My biggest gripe with him today wasn't either of the red cards. Toby Sibbick's red card was deserved and a fair case can be made for Alex Cochrane deserving his one too. The decision that riled me happened earlier on in the second half. Connor Smith dispossessed a Celtic player and we were breaking away straight on to their defence. It was a 3 on 2 situation(I think?). Clancy proceeded, wrongly, to blow for a foul and prevented what would have been a good chance for us to score from developing. It was very reminiscent of last season when we were breaking away into Celtic's box and Bobby Madden decided to stop the game because a Celtic player had pulled their hamstring. And then compounded the 'mistake' by giving possession of the ball to Celtic at the restart. 🙄

 

 

Edited August 21, 2022 by No Idle Talk

[heartgarfunkel]

2 hours ago, jimbojambo said:

A good referee would have a word first but Clancy reached straight for a card on every occasion to the delight of the crowd. Not a bad tackle in the game but like Collum he had to be the centre of attention. I believe he is a lawyer in Edinburgh and trains in the Meadows at lunchtime so he'd better get some sprint training in if I happen to see him. 

If we’re not going to have neutral foreign referees then surely it is time for honesty.  Put the club that the official supports in brackets after the name. I worked with Clancy’s old man and the family are multi-generational Celtic fanatics. Nothing wrong with that but at least be transparent. 

[Archie White]

I was really disappointed pre match when the team was announced. It just handed the game to Celtic. Is this how it's going to be in the League games now? Before every European game we "rest" players. Neilson may bang on about the strength of the squad now but today's game should that is clearly not the case. Without McKay and Shankland we offered no threat whatsoever. There is no point in bleating about bookings and sending offs, the game was gone long before Cochrane went off. It hides the fact that if we do not play our best team against the OF in particular then we have no chance of winning. What then is the point?  McKay, Shankland and Smith could just as easiiy be injured in the  time they were on the pitch so why leave them out in the first place. Just another capitulation in Glasgow. We should aspire to be better than that.

[JAYEL]

2 minutes ago, Archie White said:

I was really disappointed pre match when the team was announced. It just handed the game to Celtic. Is this how it's going to be in the League games now? Before every European game we "rest" players. Neilson may bang on about the strength of the squad now but today's game should that is clearly not the case. Without McKay and Shankland we offered no threat whatsoever. There is no point in bleating about bookings and sending offs, the game was gone long before Cochrane went off. It hides the fact that if we do not play our best team against the OF in particular then we have no chance of winning. What then is the point?  McKay, Shankland and Smith could just as easiiy be injured in the  time they were on the pitch so why leave them out in the first place. Just another capitulation in Glasgow. We should aspire to be better than that.

All nonsense 😩

[muldoon74]

1 hour ago, Riccarton3 said:

Yeah, issue is often the clear reluctance to book OF players for infringements they have no hesitation in  acting on for other teams. These ***** get a more even treatment in Europe year after year. Scottish referees are a ****ing disgrace.

I've watched OF European games with mates who support them.. The sheer disbelief when their players get booked is highly amusing. 

 

I've even heard them say "We'd never get booked for that in the league!".. As if they should be getting away with the same actions in europe with impartial refs. 

 

What I find really funny though is when they play the Brendan Rodgers "financial disparity " argument card [in europe] because of course there's no financial disparity in our league! ....

[PortyBeach]

3 minutes ago, JAYEL said:

All nonsense 😩

He writes a lengthy comment making various points and you reply with two words?

If you don’t agree, let’s hear your views on the points the poster made.

[JAYEL]

16 minutes ago, PortyBeach said:

He writes a lengthy comment making various points and you reply with two words?

If you don’t agree, let’s hear your views on the points the poster made.

2 words were enough to cover it all

[Nookie Bear]

2 hours ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

So doesn’t that make it a conspiracy?

A conspiracy suggests referees collide with the old firm to fix results. 
 

I don’t know if they do. I’m suggesting they make decisions based partly on fear and partly because they are in awe of the old firm. 

[BackOfTheNet]

Who was the co-commentator on Sportscene, and why did it seem his parts were recorded after the main commentary and added on later? And why were they so happy clappy towards Celtic?

 

By the by, I’m not saying Cochrane’s second and Sibbick’s first yellows definitely shouldn’t have been, but I honestly don’t think anyone but the green and white victim side of Glasgow (both of them think they’re victims) would’ve complained if those yellows weren’t given. 

Edited August 21, 2022 by BackOfTheNet

[Pasquale for King]

39 minutes ago, heartgarfunkel said:

If we’re not going to have neutral foreign referees then surely it is time for honesty.  Put the club that the official supports in brackets after the name. I worked with Clancy’s old man and the family are multi-generational Celtic fanatics. Nothing wrong with that but at least be transparent. 

In England you have to tell them your team and you can’t referee that club, as they only hire folk from the West they would struggle to get anyone to referee the uglies. 
PS a conspiracy is a secret, there’s nothing secret about the bias in their favour. 

[Boghell51]

Referees in Scotland must be dreading VAR coming in because hopefully it will highlight just how bad officiating in Scotland is, Collum yesterday very questionable and Clancy today totaly incconsistent. Dungcaster will clear his desk of any complaints Monday morning and will not address the problem.Carry on regardless, no wonder we cant get a decent sponsorship or TV deal with this lot in charge. So much for fair play.

[hereford_hearts]

Just watched the BBC highlights, **** me celtic were good. All Celtic in the highlights. BBC Scotland radio on the app must have been watching a different game. 

Fair enough, Celtic were on top in the first half, but the commentary on the app said we were making them struggle in the second half. Why did we not see any of that in the highlights? 

On a plus note, as I was joining the M8, I passed the players bus. Grabbed my scarf from the back seat, hooted the horn and flew it out of the window. I was rewarded with a flash of the lights from the driver. Unfortunately, the windows are so tinted, that my lad couldn't see any of the players or staff. 

[Gershwin]

24 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Who was the co-commentator on Sportscene, and why did it seem his parts were recorded after the main commentary and added on later? And why were they so happy clappy towards Celtic?

 

By the by, I’m not saying Cochrane’s second and Sibbick’s first yellows definitely shouldn’t have been, but I honestly don’t think anyone but the green and white victim side of Glasgow (both of them think they’re victims) would’ve complained if those yellows weren’t given. 

 

I found him really weird as well. Was like they'd let Celtic TV take over the colour commentary.

[il Duce McTarkin]

The SFA are the GFA, in the same way that Police Scotland are Police Strathclyde. 

Glasgow, unfortunately, is Scotland.

[Aussie Jambo]

I have to say. What is Robbie on about on Twitter? Smeltic trolls having a field day. I’m sure he says it to wind up Smeltic and Hobo fans. 😂👏👏

 

1-0 down till 89 minutes. I would have been happy with that regardless of what happened during the game. I was actually surprised by the team doing that well. We shut up shop and booted it away. Text book defending however way the stats show it. Would VAR have helped us today? 🤔

Hate to say it but 2-0 isn’t that bad. I thought we might get a draw but we never really had any chances. Onward & upwards. Looking for big scorelines for us on Thursday. 

[Canscot]

2 hours ago, Debut 4 said:

It can be interpreted two ways.  “No shots on target” can make

out you never even had an attempt. Or in the case of today, we had opportunities but couldn’t hit the target. 
 

The two that stuck out for me (I must add my stream was rotten and kept jumping back 10 seconds, or basically sticking and having to reboot) from the coverage I saw was Ginnelly’s two.   
 

For a guy that has proved he can strike a decent ball, he disappointed today.

 

I felt his first one could’ve been taken in closer but he ended up snatching at it from range.  The one right at the start of the second half lacked conviction. He really should be doing better there.   
 

 

Maybe he is related to Samson?  Cuts his hair and his game went to shit!

Just kidding!  His game has been shit for a while now😉

[The Black Prince]

Where's the usual Player Ratings thread?

 

Always makes for interesting reading.

[Bauld]

Reading some of the comments on the EEN.

 

10 years ago?

 

Would anyone like to rewind the clock 10 years to the season starting summer 2012 and see where we were?

 

12/13 we had McGlynn as manager.

 

Finished 10th

Knocked out of the Scottish cup by hibs.

Lost the league Cup final to St Mirren.

Lost to celtic 1-0, 4-1, 4-0.

 

Locke took over in February. 

 

Summer of 13/14 we lost 7-0 to celtic in the Scottish cup. It all went tits up and we got relegated.

 

But aye. 10 years ago going to Parkhead and losing was a major setback. Jesus Christ. 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

20 minutes ago, The Black Prince said:

Where's the usual Player Ratings thread?

 

Always makes for interesting reading.

I didn't watch the game so I didn't start one. No one else seems to have done so.

[Bongo 1874]

Just like Thursday struggled with the pace of the game, player's giving Celtic all the time and space they wanted, which resulted in stupid and unnecessary bookings. 

 

Workrate shite. 

 

Positive off the day Stewart having the best game of his life. 

 

Still needs replaced. 

 

Zurich game pish Celtic game pish. 

 

2 games in a row against better opposition, and really we created no clear cut opportunities. 

 

Big game for Robbie and the boys Thursday. 

 

Let's see what they are made off. 

 

 

Edited August 21, 2022 by Bongo 1874

[davemclaren]

2 hours ago, Archie White said:

I was really disappointed pre match when the team was announced. It just handed the game to Celtic. Is this how it's going to be in the League games now? Before every European game we "rest" players. Neilson may bang on about the strength of the squad now but today's game should that is clearly not the case. Without McKay and Shankland we offered no threat whatsoever. There is no point in bleating about bookings and sending offs, the game was gone long before Cochrane went off. It hides the fact that if we do not play our best team against the OF in particular then we have no chance of winning. What then is the point?  McKay, Shankland and Smith could just as easiiy be injured in the  time they were on the pitch so why leave them out in the first place. Just another capitulation in Glasgow. We should aspire to be better than that.

Surely the point of having a squad is that you can ‘rest’ players.
 

Players are less likely to be injured playing 15 as opposed to 90 minutes. 

 

I think it was the correct decision to prioritise Thursday’s tie given the prestige at stake. 
 

I think there is far less chance of us prioritising the group matches ( at least the later ones ) given the likelihood of us qualifying but any non defeats earn us money and European points, so we might. 
 

Some matches are more important than others imo. 
 

 

[jbee647]

Noticed quite a few Celtic fans on twitter who watched the match via a Hearts stream praising how unbiased the Hearts commentators were 

sorry that’s not the way a clubs Tv channel is supposed to work

it should be very biased especially against that lot

I think some people are trying to work themselves getting a gig on mainstream tv at Hearts expense

Edited August 22, 2022 by jbee647

[Aussie Jambo]

Watching the highlight again.

First goal fair enough that’s a typical smeltic goal. We should have these guys man marked throughout. I don’t think we were that bad. 

Sibbick & Cochrane on any other day might have got away with it. But blatant push and high kick on yellow cards is just silly. Gino 😱 Perfect position to score and 9/10 he’ll put them away but that shot was embarrassing. Wonders why he doesn’t get full game. If that was Shankland that would have been a goal. I think as I said we managed to contain them. It wasn’t pretty but it could easily have been a 1-1 draw as I predicted. That last goal was very lucky tbh. It was going wide then deflect in. 🤷‍♂️

Edited August 22, 2022 by Aussie Jambo

[PortyBeach]

8 hours ago, JAYEL said:

2 words were enough to cover it all

That’s only your view. I’m not saying you’re necessarily wrong, but you’re not doing yourself any favours by not explaining why you think the original poster was wrong on your view.

Two words is dismissive and lazy.

[PapaShango]

I few of the platers who came in yesterday didn't do themselves any harm. I thought Stewart looked solid and made 2 or 3 really good saves that had it been Gordon we would have been waxing lyrical about. One dodgy kick aside I'm pleased he stepped up and looked good, he's taken a lot of stick on here. 

 

I thought Atkinson had a decent game and put in some great challenges and was up against probably the best player in the league at the moment. We didn't create enough clear cut chances and the spell we had in the second half where we had them pinned back our set piece delivery was terrible. 3 or 4 corners not beating the first man was very poor. Ginnelly ran his socks off but has to be doing better with the chance we created first half. It was great football all round but the finish was terrible. Halliday had a good game as well and after Haring's nightmare on Thursday he had a great game. The bookings for the sending offs were probably correct, however the lack of consistency is what does your head in. They got away with very similar that didn't warrant a booking and the fouls he blew up for were soft as you like when we ended up winning it high up the park. Smith winning it in the second half on the break and he blows for a non existent foul because they are in trouble. He's got to be the worst in the league and that's saying something. 

[Horatio Caine]

9 hours ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Who was the co-commentator on Sportscene, and why did it seem his parts were recorded after the main commentary and added on later? And why were they so happy clappy towards Celtic?

 

By the by, I’m not saying Cochrane’s second and Sibbick’s first yellows definitely shouldn’t have been, but I honestly don’t think anyone but the green and white victim side of Glasgow (both of them think they’re victims) would’ve complained if those yellows weren’t given. 

It was Rory Loy.  Yes, I found it weird too, it was all about how good Celtic were - and the highlights were nearly all Celtic moves with our brave second half pretty much ignored. 

[Wee Mikey]

1 hour ago, PortyBeach said:

That’s only your view. I’m not saying you’re necessarily wrong, but you’re not doing yourself any favours by not explaining why you think the original poster was wrong on your view.

Two words is dismissive and lazy.

 

The classroom monitor strikes again.

[Waterboy]

36 minutes ago, Horatio Caine said:

It was Rory Loy.  Yes, I found it weird too, it was all about how good Celtic were - and the highlights were nearly all Celtic moves with our brave second half pretty much ignored. 

 

I watched the game, and we did have them under pressure for decent spells.  But we didn't have a shot on target.  Hardly going to include Hearts having possession for a couple minutes then losing it in a highlights reel.