***Official Celtic v Heart of Midlothian match thread***

[Fozzyonthefence]

4 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

So they have the advantage of having way more cash than everyone else so they might as well get the bulk of decisions from the ref as well, because it’ll make no difference? 

What the **** are you talking about?

I can’t be arsed explaining it again.  If you want to scroll back to check the slavers of the original post from a well known slaverer of a poster to which I was replying to that’s up to you. 

[OldGorgie]

1 minute ago, Waterboy said:

Don't get folk comparing number of fouls and cards. 

 

Very rarely are cards handed out for persistent fouling, most just come down to the severity of the challenge so the number of fouls are fairly irrelevant.

So you think that Hearts players today went to deliberately try to damage Celtic players .

[HMFC01]

2 hours ago, Hearts of Vladland said:

McGregor got away with a identical tackle that Sibbick got his second yellow for. Ref in Scotland are a embarrassment when it comes to Celtic, they can foul all day and get very few bookings.

 

Exactly.     Same foul.    Different decisions.    Should be a talking point later or Sportscene. 

[Waterboy]

2 minutes ago, OldGorgie said:

So you think that Hearts players today went to deliberately try to damage Celtic players .

 

Don't know where you got that from my post.

[GinRummy]

Just now, Fozzyonthefence said:

I can’t be arsed explaining it again.  If you want to scroll back to check the slavers of the original post from a well known slaverer of a poster to which I was replying to that’s up to you. 

They have the advantage of getting the majority of the decisions going there way. Almost all football fans of all Scottish clubs, other than the old firm,  recognise that. 
 

Any ref who suddenly bucked that trend would find himself headline news in the daily record or the victim of online abuse or worse. Neil Lennon, Charlie Nicholas, kris Boyd and ally McCoist would get enough column inches and tv coverage to make sure it didn’t last long. 
 

To even suggest it’s not worth talking about because they’re miles ahead anyway is utterly mad. 

[BelgeJambo]

I see BBC ranked Atkinson as our worst player.

 

Not sure I would agree with that

[Ricardo Quaresma]

2 minutes ago, BelgeJambo said:

I see BBC ranked Atkinson as our worst player.

 

Not sure I would agree with that

 

That's just nuts

[grumpyespana]

Thought Stewart, Atkinson & Sibbick all done okay as for the sending off"s you have to remember it was for two yellow cards but I thought the ref would have used some common sense as there was only a few minutes left to play.

[DETTY29]

6 minutes ago, BelgeJambo said:

I see BBC ranked Atkinson as our worst player.

 

Not sure I would agree with that

It's a public vote....

 

Most likely the main folk voting were Hearts fans.

[Fozzyonthefence]

25 minutes ago, Waterboy said:

Don't get folk comparing number of fouls and cards. 

 

Very rarely are cards handed out for persistent fouling, most just come down to the severity of the challenge so the number of fouls are fairly irrelevant.

Nail on head!  Sadly beyond comprehension for some on here though! 

[HoGwash]

2 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Did we?  I thought Neilson said it could be 5 days or 5 weeks.  Halkett missing is very bad news, make no mistake.  Our defence is poor without him. 

No doubt that he's a very important player for us but the defence did pretty well without him today until 2 of them were sent off.

[Fozzyonthefence]

23 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

They have the advantage of getting the majority of the decisions going there way. Almost all football fans of all Scottish clubs, other than the old firm,  recognise that. 
 

Any ref who suddenly bucked that trend would find himself headline news in the daily record or the victim of online abuse or worse. Neil Lennon, Charlie Nicholas, kris Boyd and ally McCoist would get enough column inches and tv coverage to make sure it didn’t last long. 
 

To even suggest it’s not worth talking about because they’re miles ahead anyway is utterly mad. 

I think you missed the specific point I was replying to.  I don’t think many would argue the OF generally benefit from refereeing decisions (well not many non OF fans - the OF fans themselves would).

[Malinga the Swinga]

29 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

You can’t look at everything in black and white like that.  That’s not how football works.  Some fouls are simply that - just fouls.  Some are yellow cards, some are red cards. I can’t comment on today as I didn’t see it but others have said they were technically red cards.  
 

Rangers had 2 reds yesterday - did the ref forget to read the script there?
 

I think it’s well known that Rangers and Celtic get to commit more fouls before picking up yellow cards.  My point was poo pooing the notion that the authorities appoint referees to favour the OF because of some fear of them being challenged by some little upstarts from the East coast.  Everyone knows there is no threat!

So without seeing the game, you are able to refute referee bias. It's not they are frightened of a challenge, it's giving decision after decision to the team you support and how you want to win. Clancy, like the rest of their fans, was expecting a clear cut win for the home team and he was determined to ensure that he played his part this afternoon.

It is telling that you say Rangers and Celtic get to commit more fouls before pick up yellow cards. Where in the rules of football is that written? I'd be obliged if you could point out how that is acceptable and shouldn't be commented on. 

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

With Celtic on the counter 2 on 2 (about to be 2 on 1) with only 4 minutes or so left Sobbick did exactly the right thing.

 

Had he left him and they scored all the moaners would have said he should have taken one for the team and brought him down - as Rowles should have against Hibs.

 

Sibbick did the right thing for a last minute foul. Had it been 30 mins earlier then I get the point.

[RustyRightPeg]

34 minutes ago, Waterboy said:

Don't get folk comparing number of fouls and cards. 

 

Very rarely are cards handed out for persistent fouling, most just come down to the severity of the challenge so the number of fouls are fairly irrelevant.

Don’t think anyone was complaining about the cards we got, it was the cards they didn’t get. A lot of people either watched or were at the game and saw similar incidents we were punished for and they weren’t. 

[Malinga the Swinga]

16 minutes ago, grumpyespana said:

Thought Stewart, Atkinson & Sibbick all done okay as for the sending off"s you have to remember it was for two yellow cards but I thought the ref would have used some common sense as there was only a few minutes left to play.

Common sense. We were 1 goal down in dying minutes. Clancy wasn't taking any chances and he did his bit to get Celtic over the line.

Would we have equalised, probably not, but there was less chance of that happening with 9.

[Fozzyonthefence]

2 minutes ago, HoGwash said:

No doubt that he's a very important player for us but the defence did pretty well without him today until 2 of them were sent off.

Losing 2 goals at Celtic Park is certainly no disgrace, especially with a make shift team.  I didn’t see any of it so no idea if it was a fair score line or if they missed loads of sitters but thought we were very poor defensively on Thursday without Halkett and fortunate to only concede 2.  Zurich will be confident of scoring more goals at Tynie, think we’ll need to score a few. 

[The Future's Maroon]

1 hour ago, Sooks said:

Neilson deserves great credit for boosting the confidence of some players who were getting pilloried 

 

Stewart Atkinson and Sibbick will have taken massive amounts of confidence from that match and their competitive performances away to the best team in our division

 

I feel less worried about them playing a part for us on Thursday of injury or tactics dictate that they must

 

Honestly though Robbie deserves a lot of credit for his man management and ability to develop players who are getting slaughtered

Probably missed by some this post, to me, is a great post.

 

I am not a Robbie hater, but I did have doubts….over the last year I have changed my mind.

 

Something I think has went under the radar with him, and asst’s, is signing new deals - folk always and naturally look at players teams can lose…If anyone comes sniffing for Robbie then they will need to get the cash oot!

 

(Personal gripe - As for the calling Robbie  ‘Bob’ chat, I hate it…..and for the record, my name is Bob)

Edited August 21, 2022 by The Future's Maroon

[Fozzyonthefence]

3 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

So without seeing the game, you are able to refute referee bias. It's not they are frightened of a challenge, it's giving decision after decision to the team you support and how you want to win. Clancy, like the rest of their fans, was expecting a clear cut win for the home team and he was determined to ensure that he played his part this afternoon.

It is telling that you say Rangers and Celtic get to commit more fouls before pick up yellow cards. Where in the rules of football is that written? I'd be obliged if you could point out how that is acceptable and shouldn't be commented on. 

Where did I say it was acceptable?  Where did I say it shouldn’t be commented on?  That’s right I didn’t.  

[Waterboy]

4 minutes ago, RustyRightPeg said:

Don’t think anyone was complaining about the cards we got, it was the cards they didn’t get. A lot of people either watched or were at the game and saw similar incidents we were punished for and they weren’t. 

 

Which is fair enough, that's a valid argument. 

 

Committing a similar amount of fouls doesn't mean we should have had a similar amount of cards. 

[maroonsgotop]

46 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

You can’t look at everything in black and white like that.  That’s not how football works.  Some fouls are simply that - just fouls.  Some are yellow cards, some are red cards. I can’t comment on today as I didn’t see it but others have said they were technically red cards.  
 

Rangers had 2 reds yesterday - did the ref forget to read the script there?
 

I think it’s well known that Rangers and Celtic get to commit more fouls before picking up yellow cards.  My point was poo pooing the notion that the authorities appoint referees to favour the OF because of some fear of them being challenged by some little upstarts from the East coast.  Everyone knows there is no threat!

the ref was Collum who is of a green persuasion

[Fozzyonthefence]

7 minutes ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

With Celtic on the counter 2 on 2 (about to be 2 on 1) with only 4 minutes or so left Sobbick did exactly the right thing.

 

Had he left him and they scored all the moaners would have said he should have taken one for the team and brought him down - as Rowles should have against Hibs.

 

Sibbick did the right thing for a last minute foul. Had it been 30 mins earlier then I get the point.

So it was a definite 2nd yellow?   I don’t get people moaning about the timing of the red cards, it’s irrelevant - a red (or 2nd yellow) should be just that whether it’s the 1st minute or 91st minute. 
 

Spot on about Rowles v Hibs - he takes a yellow in the 95th minute and we win all 3 points. 

[Mac80]

28 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

It's a public vote....

 

Most likely the main folk voting were Hearts fans.

Atkinson was one of out best imo, dealt with Jota well majority of the time

[Rogue Daddy]

2 hours ago, maroonedinbriz said:

How many of Celtics fouls were due to offside decisions?

Well, they’re not fouls committed. Which was my stat. I think Celtic had 12 free kicks, we had 19. Celtic we’re off side 8 times to our twice… so there seems to be a discrepancy on 1 for either side. By that I mean 12fks-2ofs = 10 fouls. And for them 19fks-8ofs = 11 fouls. 
I’ve taken the stats from Flashscore & BBC… my point still stands, refs don’t like giving cards to Celtic, especially at home. Again, they had no cards to our 9 and committed 1 less foul! How can this be right? Why are officials getting away with this?

Im not trying to say we should’ve won… far from it. But the final was similar against Rangers - first five minutes Haring gets booked for his first foul… Tavanier however fouled numerous times throughout the game and IIRC didn’t get cautioned until nearer the end of the game.  
 

[Fozzyonthefence]

2 minutes ago, maroonsgotop said:

the ref was Collum who is of a green persuasion

So Rangers were the victims of refereeing bias too?  Was Collum carefully selected to do that game to minimise the Rangers threat to Celtic’s domestic dominance?  Conspiracies everywhere you look! 

[Sooks]

In their desperation to not appear paranoid some people are willing to let some totally ludicrous officiating go as honest and fair 

[skinnybob72]

I’d be quite happy for us to play a second string every time we go to play the OF in Glasgow. 
 

We generally get nothing anyway from the games so having our better players avoid injury and yellow / red cards means they are available for more of the games we are likely to win. 

[maroonsgotop]

1 minute ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

So Rangers were the victims of refereeing bias too?  Was Collum carefully selected to do that game to minimise the Rangers threat to Celtic’s domestic dominance?  Conspiracies everywhere you look! 

the facts are that the two non green teams received 4 red cards. It's down to opinion if these were the correct decisions

[Churchill Barrier]

1 hour ago, Sooks said:

Neilson deserves great credit for boosting the confidence of some players who were getting pilloried 

 

Stewart Atkinson and Sibbick will have taken massive amounts of confidence from that match and their competitive performances away to the best team in our division

 

I feel less worried about them playing a part for us on Thursday of injury or tactics dictate that they must

 

Honestly though Robbie deserves a lot of credit for his man management and ability to develop players who are getting slaughtered

We need to have a better ambition than that to move forward.  No shots on target 31 % possession. I cant think of any team coming to Tynescastle in recent years with pathetic stats like that.

People  are happy we didn't get hammered. For me we haven't got close to any improvements from last seasons glasgow performances. ( So far)

[jimbojambo]

A good referee would have a word first but Clancy reached straight for a card on every occasion to the delight of the crowd. Not a bad tackle in the game but like Collum he had to be the centre of attention. I believe he is a lawyer in Edinburgh and trains in the Meadows at lunchtime so he'd better get some sprint training in if I happen to see him. 

[Fozzyonthefence]

1 minute ago, maroonsgotop said:

the facts are that the two non green teams received 4 red cards. It's down to opinion if these were the correct decisions

The Morelos one was definitely a red! Lundstrum should have only been yellow (it wasn’t even as bad as the Trippier one on De Bruyne today which was overturned from red to yellow by VAR).  I’ll reserve judgement on today’s reds until I see them.  
 

Taking straw clutching to a new level though to suggest there is a refereeing bias in Scotland against Rangers though!!  Wow!

[davemclaren]

6 minutes ago, maroonsgotop said:

the facts are that the two non green teams received 4 red cards. It's down to opinion if these were the correct decisions

Color blindness? 🥸

[Sooks]

Just now, Churchill Barrier said:

We need to have a better ambition than that to move forward.  No shots on target 31 % possession. I cant think of any team coming to Tynescastle in recent years with pathetic stats like that.

People  are happy we didn't get hammered. For me we haven't got close to any improvements from last seasons glasgow performances. ( So far)

No our ambitions are just fine and we will only realise them by making steady progress

 

The shots on target stat is easily the most misleading one in football too for a variety of reasons 

 

We are doing fine and the big match is on Thursday 

[Ricardo Quaresma]

 

Most common form of colour blindness is to mistake red for green

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Thank you Robbie. Saw the team and so decided not to watch and in turn a decent night's sleep. Gotdon will be fit for Thursday as will our other key players, we gave good game time to most of the squad and we still have a positive goal difference. I'll take that.

[Unknown user]

38 minutes ago, The Future's Maroon said:

Probably missed by some this post, to me, is a great post.

 

I am not a Robbie hater, but I did have doubts….over the last year I have changed my mind.

 

Something I think has went under the radar with him, and asst’s, is signing new deals - folk always and naturally look at players teams can lose…If anyone comes sniffing for Robbie then they will need to get the cash oot!

 

(Personal gripe - As for the calling Robbie  ‘Bob’ chat, I hate it…..and for the record, my name is Bob)

 

[stirlingshirejambo]

26 minutes ago, Rogue Daddy said:

Well, they’re not fouls committed. Which was my stat. I think Celtic had 12 free kicks, we had 19. Celtic we’re off side 8 times to our twice… so there seems to be a discrepancy on 1 for either side. By that I mean 12fks-2ofs = 10 fouls. And for them 19fks-8ofs = 11 fouls. 
I’ve taken the stats from Flashscore & BBC… my point still stands, refs don’t like giving cards to Celtic, especially at home. Again, they had no cards to our 9 and committed 1 less foul! How can this be right? Why are officials getting away with this?

Im not trying to say we should’ve won… far from it. But the final was similar against Rangers - first five minutes Haring gets booked for his first foul… Tavanier however fouled numerous times throughout the game and IIRC didn’t get cautioned until nearer the end of the game.  
 

Where Ref got it badly wrong is quick to book Boyce for time wasting in first half but on 3 separate occasions in second half failed to book Celt players for similar as well as not retreating at free kicks

that and the McGregir non booking were biggest mistakes. Not watched it back but from a distance both reds were not unexpected and both players were applauded off

i have to say that’s first time in a long time nearly all fans stayed until well into injury time which I think is measure of how well we competed

[OldGorgie]

1 hour ago, Waterboy said:

 

Don't know where you got that from my post.

Just trying to reconcile why we had 12 fouls yet got three yellow cards and two red. Meanwhile Celtic with 11 fouls got no bookings.  As you stated not all fouls are the same so presumably you thought the refs decisions were correct and that Hearts players went in far to to hard. Or maybe you could just disagree with fozzy’s comment, which contradicts his belief that refs aren’t bias.

 

48 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

think you missed the specific point I was replying to.  I don’t think many would argue the OF generally benefit from refereeing decisions

 

[Nookie Bear]

I don’t believe it’s a conspiracy but I do believe it’s the influence of the old firm, the respect the referees have for those institutions and also the fear of getting on the wrong end of a hate campaign that has been whipped up by either of those clubs. 

[Riccarton3]

7 minutes ago, stirlingshirejambo said:

Where Ref got it badly wrong is quick to book Boyce for time wasting in first half but on 3 separate occasions in second half failed to book Celt players for similar as well as not retreating at free kicks

that and the McGregir non booking were biggest mistakes. Not watched it back but from a distance both reds were not unexpected and both players were applauded off

i have to say that’s first time in a long time nearly all fans stayed until well into injury time which I think is measure of how well we competed

Yeah, issue is often the clear reluctance to book OF p!ayers for infringements they have no hesitation in  acting on for other teams. These ***** get a more even treatment in Europe year after year. Scottish referees are a ****ing disgrace.

Edited August 21, 2022 by Riccarton3

[Rogue Daddy]

6 minutes ago, stirlingshirejambo said:

Where Ref got it badly wrong is quick to book Boyce for time wasting in first half but on 3 separate occasions in second half failed to book Celt players for similar as well as not retreating at free kicks

that and the McGregir non booking were biggest mistakes. Not watched it back but from a distance both reds were not unexpected and both players were applauded off

i have to say that’s first time in a long time nearly all fans stayed until well into injury time which I think is measure of how well we competed

Yeah, as someone said above - it’s not necessarily that our cards are unwarranted, but there’s no consistency… in THEIR favour. Every time. what should be asked is, if the teams were reversed, do Celtic get as many cards? We all know the answer. And stats back it up to the point where it’s becoming blatant.  

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

3 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

I don’t believe it’s a conspiracy but I do believe it’s the influence of the old firm, the respect the referees have for those institutions and also the fear of getting on the wrong end of a hate campaign that has been whipped up by either of those clubs. 

So doesn’t that make it a conspiracy?

[colinmaroon]

Just now, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

So doesn’t that make it a conspiracy?

 

It's corruption - decisions made out of fear or favour.

 

 

[Fozzyonthefence]

8 minutes ago, OldGorgie said:

Just trying to reconcile why we had 12 fouls yet got three yellow cards and two red. Meanwhile Celtic with 11 fouls got no bookings.  As you stated not all fouls are the same so presumably you thought the refs decisions were correct and that Hearts players went in far to to hard. Or maybe you could just disagree with fozzy’s comment, which contradicts his belief that refs aren’t bias.

 

 

Can you point out where I said refs aren’t biased?  

[OldGorgie]

3 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Paranoid pish!  You need help!🤣🤣

 

[Debut 4]

28 minutes ago, Sooks said:

No our ambitions are just fine and we will only realise them by making steady progress

 

The shots on target stat is easily the most misleading one in football too for a variety of reasons 

 

We are doing fine and the big match is on Thursday 

It can be interpreted two ways.  “No shots on target” can make

out you never even had an attempt. Or in the case of today, we had opportunities but couldn’t hit the target. 
 

The two that stuck out for me (I must add my stream was rotten and kept jumping back 10 seconds, or basically sticking and having to reboot) from the coverage I saw was Ginnelly’s two.   
 

For a guy that has proved he can strike a decent ball, he disappointed today.

 

I felt his first one could’ve been taken in closer but he ended up snatching at it from range.  The one right at the start of the second half lacked conviction. He really should be doing better there.   
 

 

[Sooks]

4 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

It can be interpreted two ways.  “No shots on target” can make

out you never even had an attempt. Or in the case of today, we had opportunities but couldn’t hit the target. 
 

The two that stuck out for me (I must add my stream was rotten and kept jumping back 10 seconds, or basically sticking and having to reboot) from the coverage I saw was Ginnelly’s two.   
 

For a guy that has proved he can strike a decent ball, he disappointed today.

 

I felt his first one could’ve been taken in closer but he ended up snatching at it from range.  The one right at the start of the second half lacked conviction. He really should be doing better there.   
 

 

I do not disagree with most of that but I do understand how Gino could have let the occasion get the better off him too

 

My main point is really what you said in the first part of your post that shots on target is not really a great barometer for how a match went 

[Unknown user]

I noticed young Connor Smith got torn in when he came on. I'd like to see more of what he can bring on the ball, but he certainly wasn't intimidated by the midfield battle.

[Sooks]

19 minutes ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

So doesn’t that make it a conspiracy?

Not if it is just the expected norm

[PaddysBar]

Just now, Smithee said:

I noticed young Connor Smith got torn in when he came on. I'd like to see more of what he can bring on the ball, but he certainly wasn't intimidated by the midfield battle.

Agree. It seems a lifetime ago Levein played him at Easter road and he did really well.