Is there anything in politics more shit than the Labour Party?

[i wish jj was my dad]

23 hours ago, Gundermann said:

Not the biggest fan of Greer but I'm with him on this.

 

But if you believed what you hear on here a handful of people are paying mega taxes to fund the rest of us because we don't want to work

[The Mighty Thor]

Shape-shifting Keith now calling for a ceasefire in Gaza.

 

Could he be finally doing the right thing or have his polling companies told him there's a few more votes in now pulling a u-turn.

 

Only about 13,000 dead kids too late ya horrible ****

[Gundermann]

Starmer changes tack again. This time to match the SNP. Too many Labour MPs still have a conscience, it seems.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/19/keir-starmer-risks-biggest-rebellion-of-his-leadership-over-gaza-vote-mps-warn

[Malinga the Swinga]

4 hours ago, Gundermann said:

Starmer changes tack again. This time to match the SNP. Too many Labour MPs still have a conscience, it seems.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/19/keir-starmer-risks-biggest-rebellion-of-his-leadership-over-gaza-vote-mps-warn

Hopefully the same Labour and SNP MP's grow a pair and stop the hate crimes escalating against Jewish people in the UK. These have risen massively in last few weeks, particularly down South.

I'll bet nothing happens though.

[il Duce McTarkin]

On 19/02/2024 at 05:41, The Mighty Thor said:

Shape-shifting Keith now calling for a ceasefire in Gaza.

 

Could he be finally doing the right thing or have his polling companies told him there's a few more votes in now pulling a u-turn.

 

Only about 13,000 dead kids too late ya horrible ****

 

5 hours ago, Gundermann said:

Starmer changes tack again. This time to match the SNP. Too many Labour MPs still have a conscience, it seems.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/19/keir-starmer-risks-biggest-rebellion-of-his-leadership-over-gaza-vote-mps-warn

 

Starmer could usher in world peace, end poverty, **** the Hibs while spurting maroon rainbows from his bellend, and you pair of miserable, self-loathing ****s would still be all bent out of shape because he's not Jimmy Reid.

 

 

Cheer up, lads, at least he's not a Catholic (yet).

 

 

Edited February 20 by il Duce McTarkin

[Boris]

At the upcoming general election are people going to vote for a party based on its stance on Gaza, or on other issues like cost of living, the state of the NHS, housing, post office, general incumbent govt incompetence etc?

As horrific as the situation in Gaza is, I'm not convinced it's a vote winner/loser with the majority of the electorate. 

[rudi must stay]

A plague would be worse 

[periodictabledancer]

Lindsay Hoyle ?

 

Today I learned it's the Speaker's job to save Labour from themselves.

 

So, yeah, Hoyle wins. 

 

 

[I P Knightley]

10 hours ago, periodictabledancer said:

Lindsay Hoyle ?

 

Today I learned it's the Speaker's job to save Labour from themselves.

 

So, yeah, Hoyle wins. 

 

 

He's always been a feeble speaker. 

 

There's a reasonable argument to be made for doing what he did but, when he'd had express advice against that argument, he should have backed down. 

 

So now, instead of arriving at a decision which it appears the majority of MPs were in favour of to try to save thousands of lives, we've got 3 parties trying to score points off each other. 

 

No one is coming out of this looking good. The only light in the tunnel is the strong possibility of not having to hear Lindsay Hoyle offering rowdy MPs out for a cup of tea.

[The Mighty Thor]

2 minutes ago, I P Knightley said:

He's always been a feeble speaker. 

 

There's a reasonable argument to be made for doing what he did but, when he'd had express advice against that argument, he should have backed down. 

 

So now, instead of arriving at a decision which it appears the majority of MPs were in favour of to try to save thousands of lives, we've got 3 parties trying to score points off each other. 

 

No one is coming out of this looking good. The only light in the tunnel is the strong possibility of not having to hear Lindsay Hoyle offering rowdy MPs out for a cup of tea.

 

He can clear it up in a minute.

 

Release the minutes of the meeting he had with Keith yesterday before the debate. Unless of course there was no clerk of the house present?

[Malinga the Swinga]

18 minutes ago, I P Knightley said:

He's always been a feeble speaker. 

 

There's a reasonable argument to be made for doing what he did but, when he'd had express advice against that argument, he should have backed down. 

 

So now, instead of arriving at a decision which it appears the majority of MPs were in favour of to try to save thousands of lives, we've got 3 parties trying to score points off each other. 

 

No one is coming out of this looking good. The only light in the tunnel is the strong possibility of not having to hear Lindsay Hoyle offering rowdy MPs out for a cup of tea.

Can I ask how you believe a vote in UK would save thousands of lives?

The only way that will happen is if Israel and Iran have a grown up discussion about what solution is possible that both can stomach. That seems unlikely at the moment.

Agree with rest of post.

 

[I P Knightley]

Just now, Malinga the Swinga said:

Can I ask how you believe a vote in UK would save thousands of lives?

The only way that will happen is if Israel and Iran have a grown up discussion about what solution is possible that both can stomach. That seems unlikely at the moment.

Agree with rest of post.

 

 

Oh, I think that's a tenuous claim, alright, but it was an opportunity for the house to demonstrate care and concern for people other than themselves. How it could have led to saving lives is cloudy at best but may have involved getting our ministers and diplomats to lean on the governments of Israel and Iran, including a boycott of arms sales to the region. 

[Malinga the Swinga]

1 minute ago, I P Knightley said:

 

Oh, I think that's a tenuous claim, alright, but it was an opportunity for the house to demonstrate care and concern for people other than themselves. How it could have led to saving lives is cloudy at best but may have involved getting our ministers and diplomats to lean on the governments of Israel and Iran, including a boycott of arms sales to the region. 

The house don't care about folk in their own constituencies never mind in Middle East. It's all a game of point scoring. Always has been. Unless it benefits them as individuals first, their party second and, I'm being generous here, maybe their faith, they couldn't care.

That's every single one of them.

[Malinga the Swinga]

Anyway, after last night's shenanigans and the startling fact that MP's look after themselves and party as priority, lets return to focussing on matters that impact on UK directly. Cost of power, food, council tax, income tax, health and many others come before Palestine, or at least they do to 99.9% of voters 

 

Exactly how big will Labour majority be after election. I reckon between 100 and 120. 

[I P Knightley]

20 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

The house don't care about folk in their own constituencies never mind in Middle East. It's all a game of point scoring. Always has been. Unless it benefits them as individuals first, their party second and, I'm being generous here, maybe their faith, they couldn't care.

That's every single one of them.

You're not trying to cheer me up, are you? 

 

 

[Malinga the Swinga]

Just now, I P Knightley said:

You're not trying to cheer me up, are you? 

 

 

If you want to be cheery, I'd suggest politics isn't the topic to discuss.

Now a win on Saturday for Hearts over Sevco, that's a different matter.

[I P Knightley]

3 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

If you want to be cheery, I'd suggest politics isn't the topic to discuss.

Now a win on Saturday for Hearts over Sevco, that's a different matter.

Followed by another Calcutta Cup victory... 

[Malinga the Swinga]

Just now, I P Knightley said:

Followed by another Calcutta Cup victory... 

More confident on that than the football but you never know.

[SectionDJambo]

Yesterday was all about opportunism of the 3 main parties for reasons that had little to do with the tragic situation in Gaza. They should all be ashamed of themselves and save the electioneering for when the real campaign begins. 
The Speaker will probably pay for his part in yesterday’s shenanigans with his job. Sunak, Starmer and Flynn won’t. How hard would it have been to put party politics aside for this issue and come to some agreed motion for a free vote? Israel and Hamas wouldn’t be listening anyway.

It’s being said that Hoyle was very concerned about the safety of some MPs when outside of the parliament buildings, which led to the decision he made. The fairly recent murders of 2 MPs being fresh in his mind, and threats having been made to others since 7th October.

Maybe Hoyle should just walk and leave the MPs to it.

[Gundermann]

1 hour ago, SectionDJambo said:

Yesterday was all about opportunism of the 3 main parties for reasons that had little to do with the tragic situation in Gaza. They should all be ashamed of themselves and save the electioneering for when the real campaign begins. 
The Speaker will probably pay for his part in yesterday’s shenanigans with his job. Sunak, Starmer and Flynn won’t. How hard would it have been to put party politics aside for this issue and come to some agreed motion for a free vote? Israel and Hamas wouldn’t be listening anyway.

It’s being said that Hoyle was very concerned about the safety of some MPs when outside of the parliament buildings, which led to the decision he made. The fairly recent murders of 2 MPs being fresh in his mind, and threats having been made to others since 7th October.

Maybe Hoyle should just walk and leave the MPs to it.

 

Not sure about the Tories, but the the SNP are right to be annoyed. It was their day - one of three only - to submit motions for voting on. That didn't happen. The SNP motion should've been voted on first and then maybe the Labour one.

[Gundermann]

 

Yousaf may not be the most exciting of leaders but he wiped the floor with Sarwar today. I'm not sure that millionaire Sarwar bringing up the minimum wage was is the right moral high-ground for him to stand on...

 

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/anas-sarwars-family-business-still-112810417.html

[Malinga the Swinga]

2 hours ago, Gundermann said:

 

Not sure about the Tories, but the the SNP are right to be annoyed. It was their day - one of three only - to submit motions for voting on. That didn't happen. The SNP motion should've been voted on first and then maybe the Labour one.

Maybe they should concentrate on raising a motion that directly impacts on Scotland and it's citizens instead of something that impacts on Humza's in-laws.

Then again, they have no positives in Scotland so need to deflect.

[Malinga the Swinga]

2 hours ago, Gundermann said:

 

Yousaf may not be the most exciting of leaders but he wiped the floor with Sarwar today. I'm not sure that millionaire Sarwar bringing up the minimum wage was is the right moral high-ground for him to stand on...

 

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/anas-sarwars-family-business-still-112810417.html

You are living in a Dreamland. Humza's performance, as usual, was lacklustre, devoid of spark or content and was brushed aside easily. Sarwar himself isn't a great speaker but he's light years ahead of a lightweight like our FM.

[JudyJudyJudy]

16 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

You are living in a Dreamland. Humza's performance, as usual, was lacklustre, devoid of spark or content and was brushed aside easily. Sarwar himself isn't a great speaker but he's light years ahead of a lightweight like our FM.

So what if Sarwar is a millionaire , his family worked hard to achieve this . And Yousaf was privately educated so he’s prob worth a bob or two . I see the politics of envy is still a feature on this forum . 

[Malinga the Swinga]

2 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

So what if Sarwar is a millionaire , his family worked hard to achieve this . And Yousaf was privately educated so he’s prob worth a bob or two . I see the politics of envy is still a feature on this forum . 

Would have thought that him being loaded was good thing. At least if he has to bribe a foreign entity to get his relatives out of self inflicted trouble, he can do so without using Scottish tax payers cash.

[Gundermann]

2 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

So what if Sarwar is a millionaire , his family worked hard to achieve this . And Yousaf was privately educated so he’s prob worth a bob or two . I see the politics of envy is still a feature on this forum . 

 

It's more likely that others worked hard enabling Sarwar and family to become millionaires. The fact that the firm still doesn't pay the living wage suggests that's the way it is.

[Gundermann]

2 hours ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

You are living in a Dreamland. Humza's performance, as usual, was lacklustre, devoid of spark or content and was brushed aside easily. Sarwar himself isn't a great speaker but he's light years ahead of a lightweight like our FM.

 

Yousaf was spot on. Expressed himself well but more importantly hit Sarwar with the facts - none of Laobur's proposed windfall tax would be ring-fenced to enable transition to non-oil based jobs and also his support for a cap on benefits while scrapping a cap on bankers' bonuses. Given Labour's record over the past 2 years, all these policies are liable to change again if either SNP or Tory put pressure on spineless Starmer.

[JudyJudyJudy]

15 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Would have thought that him being loaded was good thing. At least if he has to bribe a foreign entity to get his relatives out of self inflicted trouble, he can do so without using Scottish tax payers cash.

It’s a mugs game to work in Scotland it seems. . Even worse if you build a business from scratch and achieve. 

[periodictabledancer]

The idea that Hoyle suddenly cared about what was happening in  Westminster having a negative impact on MP lives is truly nauseating.  He has tolerated the most disgraceful behaviour from MPs ,  has refused to intervene in any instance where MPs have lied(many)  and been responsible for a  Westminster looking and behaving life a giant public school bunfight.

 

He was warned in no uncertain terms what the impact of interfering would be so to claim He made a "mistake" is plainly ridiculous.

 

He isn't the arbiter of democracy and he needs to go. His interference is unacceptable.

 

 

[TallPaul]

On 17/02/2024 at 14:28, Gundermann said:

Not the biggest fan of Greer but I'm with him on this.

 

I think the issue for most is the higher tax bands starting at levels like 42k. Someone earning a little over that starting to be hit for 40% tax ain't right. 

[Gundermann]

1 hour ago, TallPaul said:

I think the issue for most is the higher tax bands starting at levels like 42k. Someone earning a little over that starting to be hit for 40% tax ain't right. 

 

Yeah, I'm with you on that. A lot of NHS workers and teachers will be on 42k or thereabouts.

[The Mighty Thor]

1 hour ago, TallPaul said:

I think the issue for most is the higher tax bands starting at levels like 42k. Someone earning a little over that starting to be hit for 40% tax ain't right. 

Someone earning over 42K will be taxed on the higher rate at what they earn above 42K only. Everything up to 42K is taxed as normal. 

 

[jack D and coke]

9 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Someone earning over 42K will be taxed on the higher rate at what they earn above 42K only. Everything up to 42K is taxed as normal. 

 

Not saying the lad above doesn’t get it but it’s like people can’t understand that point sometimes. It’s not going to break anyone’s back. 
The what you’d do if you were in charge of Scotland thread was funny with people suggesting this that and the next thing….we’d be on about 70% tax if half of it was brought into being  
 

[The Mighty Thor]

7 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Not saying the lad above doesn’t get it but it’s like people can’t understand that point sometimes. It’s not going to break anyone’s back. 
The what you’d do if you were in charge of Scotland thread was funny with people suggesting this that and the next thing….we’d be on about 70% tax if half of it was brought into being  
 

It's a common misconception. 

 

If you're on 42,500 you get taxed at higher rate on the 500 and the rest of the 42k less allowances at normal rate. 

Edited February 23 by The Mighty Thor

[TallPaul]

16 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Someone earning over 42K will be taxed on the higher rate at what they earn above 42K only. Everything up to 42K is taxed as normal. 

 

Yes I know but if you earn 48k like some teachers etc then 40% of that 6k is excessive 

[The Mighty Thor]

18 minutes ago, TallPaul said:

Yes I know but if you earn 48k like some teachers etc then 40% of that 6k is excessive 

If you're earning 48K then you're earning 37% above the average wage in Scotland and good luck to you. 

 

It's not unreasonable for the tax burden to reflect that IMO. 

[TallPaul]

29 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

If you're earning 48K then you're earning 37% above the average wage in Scotland and good luck to you. 

 

It's not unreasonable for the tax burden to reflect that IMO. 

If you earn 48k you aren't wealthy or well off like the noncey Greer boy would like to make out.

[The Mighty Thor]

35 minutes ago, TallPaul said:

If you earn 48k you aren't wealthy or well off like the noncey Greer boy would like to make out.

You're considerably better off than the bloke that earns the average wage and those that earn living/minimum wage. 

 

Do you feel that there shouldn't be a scale of taxtation where those who earn more pay more?

 

[XB52]

So, the shite Labour Party then??

Starmer is really going all out to totally hibs the election now.

[TallPaul]

1 hour ago, The Mighty Thor said:

You're considerably better off than the bloke that earns the average wage and those that earn living/minimum wage. 

 

Do you feel that there shouldn't be a scale of taxtation where those who earn more pay more?

 

People that earn above average wage have worked harder to obtain these positions and generally have a higher degree of reasonability hence greater reward. 

 

My point was people earning in the 40s and 50s aren't considerably well off.

[The Mighty Thor]

2 minutes ago, TallPaul said:

People that earn above average wage have worked harder to obtain these positions and generally have a higher degree of reasonability hence greater reward. 

 

My point was people earning in the 40s and 50s aren't considerably well off.

 

Ah another doozy of a right wing trope trotted out.

 

I'm sure a lot of the minimum wage workers work bloody hard, and it could be argued a damn site harder than teachers who get 14 weeks a year off. 

 

By reasonability did you actually really mean to say intelligence but shat it at the last minute?

 

People earning in the £40-£50k range are well off when you're on £10.42 per hour mate. 

 

They should pay the sliding scale of tax. That's how this shit works. 

 

 

[TallPaul]

55 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

 

Ah another doozy of a right wing trope trotted out.

 

I'm sure a lot of the minimum wage workers work bloody hard, and it could be argued a damn site harder than teachers who get 14 weeks a year off. 

 

By reasonability did you actually really mean to say intelligence but shat it at the last minute?

 

People earning in the £40-£50k range are well off when you're on £10.42 per hour mate. 

 

They should pay the sliding scale of tax. That's how this shit works. 

 

 

It's not right wing at all to say someone than earns 50k per year probably works harder and has more responsibility than someone on 10.42 per hour....

[The Mighty Thor]

Just now, TallPaul said:

It's not right wing at all to say someone than earns 50k per year probably works harder and has more responsibility than someone on 10.42 per hour....

 

The only accurate part of that is that someone on 50k a year earns more than someone on 10.42 per hour the rest is your opinion.

[TallPaul]

1 minute ago, The Mighty Thor said:

 

The only accurate part of that is that someone on 50k a year earns more than someone on 10.42 per hour the rest is your opinion.

Sound maybe we should be paying the checkout operators the same as our brain surgeons.

 

[The Mighty Thor]

4 minutes ago, TallPaul said:

Sound maybe we should be paying the checkout operators the same as our brain surgeons.

 

 

We probably shouldn't but brain surgeons should be paying proportionately more tax than a checkout operator. 

 

So to get to the nub of it what are you advocating on in terms of taxation as you're not really spitting it out?

[TallPaul]

3 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

 

We probably shouldn't but brain surgeons should be paying proportionately more tax than a checkout operator. 

 

So to get to the nub of it what are you advocating on in terms of taxation as you're not really spitting it out?

40% tax brackets shouldn't kick in until a lot higher than 42k maybe like 60k plus. People who earn decent salaries generally work hard for them and should be allowed to keep more or their earnings.

[Boris]

1 hour ago, XB52 said:

So, the shite Labour Party then??

Starmer is really going all out to totally hibs the election now.

 

Get where you are coming from, but I really don't think that Gaza is going to have much of an influence on the GE.

 

Obviously some people will not vote Labour because of it, but then are these folk going to vote Tory instead?

 

End of the day the economy, cost of living, shit public services etc are going to have more influence.

IMO.

 

[The Mighty Thor]

Just now, TallPaul said:

40% tax brackets shouldn't kick in until a lot higher than 42k maybe like 60k plus. People who earn decent salaries generally work hard for them and should be allowed to keep more or their earnings.

 

Again the inference is that people who don't earn 'decent salaries' don't work hard for them and therefore should pay higher taxes.

 

So under your tax regime the gap between the guy on £10.42 and yer man on £60k just grows and grows and grows.

 

Aye sounds like a plan. 

[TallPaul]

5 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

 

Again the inference is that people who don't earn 'decent salaries' don't work hard for them and therefore should pay higher taxes.

 

So under your tax regime the gap between the guy on £10.42 and yer man on £60k just grows and grows and grows.

 

Aye sounds like a plan. 

I've clearly touched a nerve you seem to take this debate a bit personally.

[Boris]

Just now, TallPaul said:

40% tax brackets shouldn't kick in until a lot higher than 42k maybe like 60k plus. People who earn decent salaries generally work hard for them and should be allowed to keep more or their earnings.

 

Both WM & Holyrood guilty of fiscal drag.  That's the real bolloxer for tax.