Taffin Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 Just now, Sub4TiddlerMurray said: Bit of déjà vu here Taffin ….are these your fav go-to questions on this subject that you try on different posters? Once someone answers it I'll stop. So far I've had, dress like a women (whatever women dress like) and avoidance of the question. For people trying to win folk round it seems odd to not just define what a major part of it actually looks like, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 Just now, Dawnrazor said: 🤣🤣 come on!!! People who agree with women who've raised concerns about allowing men into women's spaces hate trans people??? Away and don't talk pish!!! It’s the classic militancy , say people “ hate” therefore demean and devalue any of their arguments . It’s old as time . He’s did it repeatedly in various guises . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobilius Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said: Aye he’s like his buddy from last month who couldn’t answer similar questions . Their whole argument falls apart if they were truthful . Don’t talk nonsense Judy 😂 He’s asking for details of a 19 year old process which can be found with a simple google search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 Just now, Bobilius said: Yep, it’s a no. I can’t explain to you the detail of the process involved in getting a GRC currently. I know it involves a 2 year period of living in your chosen gender, a medical certification and being 18yo or older. Beyond that, google is your friend. 👍🏽 That's the bit I'm unclear on. I've googled it but it seems not to be super apparent or clear what that involves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CF11JamTart Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: Could I identify as an eleven year old and legally change my age by living as an eleven year old for three months? https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46425774 This Dutch guy couldn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 1 minute ago, Bobilius said: Yep, it’s a no. I can’t explain to you the detail of the process involved in getting a GRC currently. I know it involves a 2 year period of living in your chosen gender, a medical certification and being 18yo or older. Beyond that, google is your friend. 👍🏽 So you’re supporting something you really don’t have much knowledge off ? I’m confused 😐 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobilius Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, Sub4TiddlerMurray said: Bit of déjà vu here Taffin ….are these your fav go-to questions on this subject that you try on different posters? He clearly finds the internet challenging to look up the answers. The process has been around for 19 years. All the info is there if you really want to read up on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sub4TiddlerMurray Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 5 minutes ago, jonesy said: Beats the gammon memes my mates usually post to me on WhatsApp, TBF Seriously though. Why gender and not the other areas I mentioned? What makes gender any different? It’s about moving with the times Jonesy. Just because the Victorians tried to claim things like gender and sexuality were god-given and therefore ‘immutable’, doesn’t mean we can’t think differently in the 22nd century. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobilius Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 1 minute ago, Taffin said: That's the bit I'm unclear on. I've googled it but it seems not to be super apparent or clear what that involves. It must be clarified somewhere otherwise nobody would ever have got a GRC. It also must have been clarified in other countries who issue GRCs. I guess the point is that it is not a new concept, it’s not something brought in by the new bill. They’ve just shortened the time (by too much imo) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 1 minute ago, CF11JamTart said: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46425774 This Dutch guy couldn't. I remember that case, really that he couldn't, why? If you can identify as a woman when you have a penis and testicles why can't someone who's 50 identity as 15? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 Just now, Bobilius said: It must be clarified somewhere otherwise nobody would ever have got a GRC. It also must have been clarified in other countries who issue GRCs. I guess the point is that it is not a new concept, it’s not something brought in by the new bill. They’ve just shortened the time (by too much imo) So you don’t know ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 Just now, Dawnrazor said: I remember that case, really that he couldn't, why? If you can identify as a woman when you have a penis and testicles why can't someone who's 50 identity as 15? Exactly . I want yo identity as Judy Garland circa 1961 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sub4TiddlerMurray Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, Taffin said: Once someone answers it I'll stop. So far I've had, dress like a women (whatever women dress like) and avoidance of the question. For people trying to win folk round it seems odd to not just define what a major part of it actually looks like, no? You are not adding anything to the sum of knowledge if all you do is fire questions hoping your opponent says something you can jump on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CF11JamTart Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 Just now, Dawnrazor said: I remember that case, really that he couldn't, why? If you can identify as a woman when you have a penis and testicles why can't someone who's 50 identity as 15? Apparently... "Mr Ratelband is at liberty to feel 20 years younger than his real age and to act accordingly," the judges said, but changing his legal documents would have "undesirable legal and societal implications". Shame... The ladies on Tinder were clearly missing out on something special. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, Sub4TiddlerMurray said: It’s about moving with the times Jonesy. Just because the Victorians tried to claim things like gender and sexuality were god-given and therefore ‘immutable’, doesn’t mean we can’t think differently in the 22nd century. You do know you can’t change sex and never will ? Yes ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 1 minute ago, CF11JamTart said: Apparently... "Mr Ratelband is at liberty to feel 20 years younger than his real age and to act accordingly," the judges said, but changing his legal documents would have "undesirable legal and societal implications". Shame... The ladies on Tinder were clearly missing out on something special. The parallels are stark!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobilius Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 5 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: 🤣🤣 come on!!! People who agree with women who've raised concerns about allowing men into women's spaces hate trans people??? Away and don't talk pish!!! That isn’t what I said at all. The new bill makes no difference to what someone with a GRC can and can’t do. Women rightly have concerns that someone can potentially get one after three months rather than two years. I do too. I bet the vast majority of women don’t believe that GRCs should be banned entirely, as some on this thread do. Those who want them banned are anti-trans in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sub4TiddlerMurray Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 1 minute ago, jonesy said: Fair enough mate. I like to think I'm not a dinosaur. My son's godparents were a same-sex couple, I've been in mixed-race relationships, and I even allow my wife to drive my car (on occasion). But changing sex? I just can't get my head around it, TBH. Fair doos mate 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 1 minute ago, Bobilius said: It must be clarified somewhere otherwise nobody would ever have got a GRC. It also must have been clarified in other countries who issue GRCs. I guess the point is that it is not a new concept, it’s not something brought in by the new bill. They’ve just shortened the time (by too much imo) I'm not arguing against either bill. I personally don't believe in gender, I find it divisive and reductive. Everyone's different and that should be celebrated. Whether your male or female is largely irrelevant imo. I have issue with the idea that people think you can box that up as something someone can opt into. There's plenty females who dress like me and have similar interests to me. What if I chose to live like them? Would that meet the GRC criteria (open question not really to you directly) or wouldn't it given I'd largely be living the same life as now? If it didn't, are they saying those who live like that aren't women? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 1 minute ago, Bobilius said: That isn’t what I said at all. The new bill makes no difference to what someone with a GRC can and can’t do. Women rightly have concerns that someone can potentially get one after three months rather than two years. I do too. I bet the vast majority of women don’t believe that GRCs should be banned entirely, as some on this thread do. Those who want them banned are anti-trans in my opinion. You can see what you said! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobilius Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 4 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said: So you don’t know ? Congratulations on properly interpreting the English language 👍🏽 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 4 minutes ago, Sub4TiddlerMurray said: You are not adding anything to the sum of knowledge if all you do is fire questions hoping your opponent says something you can jump on. That would depend on the answers given. Maybe they would warrant being jumped on, maybe they wouldn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobilius Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 8 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said: So you’re supporting something you really don’t have much knowledge off ? I’m confused 😐 For the easily confused 😉, I don’t support the bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sub4TiddlerMurray Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said: You do know you can’t change sex and never will ? Yes ? I was talking about thinking differently Judy. But thanks for reassuring me even though I have no intention of changing sex 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 Just now, Bobilius said: Congratulations on properly interpreting the English language 👍🏽 Your arrogance and condescending style oozes out of every comment you make . Alex . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobilius Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 11 minutes ago, Taffin said: Once someone answers it I'll stop. So far I've had, dress like a women (whatever women dress like) and avoidance of the question. For people trying to win folk round it seems odd to not just define what a major part of it actually looks like, no? A major part of the original 2004 Act though, not the new bill. The new bill decreases the length of time, it doesn’t modify the criteria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sub4TiddlerMurray Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 Interesting chat and definitely learned a few things. Time to watch football 👋 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Bobilius said: For the easily confused 😉, I don’t support the bill. Enough Alex . Do we have to go through this psycho drama every few months until you take another break ? You have went through more regenerations than Dr Who Edited January 17, 2023 by JudyJudyJudy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobilius Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 6 minutes ago, Taffin said: I'm not arguing against either bill. I personally don't believe in gender, I find it divisive and reductive. Everyone's different and that should be celebrated. Whether your male or female is largely irrelevant imo. I have issue with the idea that people think you can box that up as something someone can opt into. There's plenty females who dress like me and have similar interests to me. What if I chose to live like them? Would that meet the GRC criteria (open question not really to you directly) or wouldn't it given I'd largely be living the same life as now? If it didn't, are they saying those who live like that aren't women? Not sure mate. Think that’s why the criteria and process to get a GRC needs to be reasonably robust. The proposed bill is not imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobilius Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 Just now, JudyJudyJudy said: Enough Alex . Do we have to go through this psycho drama every few months until you take another break ? You have went through more regenerations than Dr Who Try joining the debate rather than obsessing on me (flattering though it is). Plenty of interesting aspects up for discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, Sub4TiddlerMurray said: Interesting chat and definitely learned a few things. Time to watch football 👋 Aye I’m off to watch “ the last of us “ heard good things about it . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobilius Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 9 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: You can see what you said! so can you and everyone else 👍🏽 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 1 minute ago, Bobilius said: A major part of the original 2004 Act though, not the new bill. The new bill decreases the length of time, it doesn’t modify the criteria. I'm not suggesting it does. I'm asking (whether for 3 months, or 2 years), what living in an acquired gender looks like. You've said you don't know, that's cool. I thought given the authority you were speaking with on the topic that you might is all. I'd like to think the complexity, individuality and wonder of the females in my life can't be boiled down to a checklist of things they must all do on a daily basis to 'live as women' but maybe it can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 Just now, Bobilius said: Try joining the debate rather than obsessing on me (flattering though it is). Plenty of interesting aspects up for discussion. Lol you gotta be joking ? You’re the one stalking me ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobilius Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 7 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said: Your arrogance and condescending style oozes out of every comment you make . Alex . Your underlying bias oozes out of yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobilius Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 Just now, Taffin said: I'm not suggesting it does. I'm asking (whether for 3 months, or 2 years), what living in an acquired gender looks like. You've said you don't know, that's cool. I thought given the authority you were speaking with on the topic that you might is all. I'd like to think the complexity, individuality and wonder of the females in my life can't be boiled down to a checklist of things they must all do on a daily basis to 'live as women' but maybe it can. I’m speaking with authority on the fact that the new bill doesn’t seek to make any change to that part of the GRC process. It’s part of the 2004 Act and shouldn’t be conflated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobilius Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said: Lol you gotta be joking ? You’re the one stalking me ! How many of your last ten posts have been about me? 😘 Edited January 17, 2023 by Bobilius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 1 minute ago, Taffin said: I'm not suggesting it does. I'm asking (whether for 3 months, or 2 years), what living in an acquired gender looks like. You've said you don't know, that's cool. I thought given the authority you were speaking with on the topic that you might is all. I'd like to think the complexity, individuality and wonder of the females in my life can't be boiled down to a checklist of things they must all do on a daily basis to 'live as women' but maybe it can. I assumed he knew everything about this issue , and anything else for that matter . I’ll need to actually look out the supposed criteria for “ Living in another gender “ I just know I’ll be horrified though . It’ll be full of harmful , out dated stereotypes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 1 minute ago, Bobilius said: I’m speaking with authority on the fact that the new bill doesn’t seek to make any change to that part of the GRC process. It’s part of the 2004 Act and shouldn’t be conflated. I'm not conflating either, apart from they both have the same criteria but for differing periods of time to 'live in your acquired gender identity'. To take a solid stance on it either way, I don't think it's unreasonable to wish to understand what that means. I've not horse in the race, but I do find it a very interesting topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 5 minutes ago, Bobilius said: so can you and everyone else 👍🏽 "Those people are anti-trans, anti-GRC and are using the safe spaces/women’s rights argument to hide their hatred." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobilius Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said: I assumed he knew everything about this issue , and anything else for that matter . I’ll need to actually look out the supposed criteria for “ Living in another gender “ I just know I’ll be horrified though . It’ll be full of harmful , out dated stereotypes. And another. #flattered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobilius Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: "Those people are anti-trans, anti-GRC and are using the safe spaces/women’s rights argument to hide their hatred." Ah the joys of selective quoting. The bit you deliberately left out was where I defined “those people” as those who would have opposed the GRC bill regardless of what it said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobilius Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 4 minutes ago, Taffin said: I'm not conflating either, apart from they both have the same criteria but for differing periods of time to 'live in your acquired gender identity'. To take a solid stance on it either way, I don't think it's unreasonable to wish to understand what that means. I've not horse in the race, but I do find it a very interesting topic. Totally agree and if I could be arsed I would go look it up. I’m more worried about the length of time being 3 months rather than what has to happen during those 3 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, Bobilius said: Ah the joys of selective quoting. The bit you deliberately left out was where I defined “those people” as those who would have opposed the GRC bill regardless of what it said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 Just now, Bobilius said: Totally agree and if I could be arsed I would go look it up. I’m more worried about the length of time being 3 months rather than what has to happen during those 3 months. 👍👍 I did have a quick Google and particularly the ScotGov site seems to go out of its way to avoid defining things (Inc sex and gender!) Trying to find it isn't as easy I thought I may be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobilius Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: 37 minutes ago, Bobilius said: I have. I’ve learned that anti-trans people would have opposed the new bill regardless of what extent it simplified the process. Those people are anti-trans, anti-GRC and are using the safe spaces/women’s rights argument to hide their hatred. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobilius Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, Taffin said: 👍👍 I did have a quick Google and particularly the ScotGov site seems to go out of its way to avoid defining things (Inc sex and gender!) Trying to find it isn't as easy I thought I may be. Probably best to look at the original 2004 Act. I suspect the new bill will probably just make reference to how it is defined previously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 10 minutes ago, Bobilius said: And another. #flattered Dont be . Please . Time for another “ break” ? You tend to burn out fairly quickly !😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 Just now, Bobilius said: 🤣 yep, you said people who hide behind womens safe spaces / womens rights are anti trans, that's bollocks, that's what I pointed out because that's what you said, it's there for everyone to see!! No wonder you feel the need to change your name every few weeks, it's embarrassment isn't it 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobilius Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 4 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said: Dont be . Please . Time for another “ break” ? You tend to burn out fairly quickly !😂 And another 😘 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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