Notts1874 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 Fairly sure if you protested within any parliament building you'd get hoofed out. No matter what your protest was about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notts1874 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 3 minutes ago, XB52 said: Keep a civil tongue😀😀😀😀. That's a classic. Imagine sitting next to them at the football 😂😂😂. Please keep a civil tongue, the referee is doing the best he can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 5 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said: Quite agree. This country is going to hell on a handcart, fast. Tell me about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i wish jj was my dad Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 Just now, Notts1874 said: Fairly sure if you protested within any parliament building you'd get hoofed out. No matter what your protest was about. Protest and lively debate should be encouraged. And we are all entitled to scrutinise, challenge and hold government to account. I don't believe we should be allowed to disrupt the democratic process though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notts1874 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 3 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said: Protest and lively debate should be encouraged. And we are all entitled to scrutinise, challenge and hold government to account. I don't believe we should be allowed to disrupt the democratic process though. I meant within the chamber specifically 👍👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 (edited) Edited December 21, 2022 by JudyJudyJudy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 5 minutes ago, Notts1874 said: I meant within the chamber specifically 👍👍 So notts Do you agree that it is ok for men who still have their male genitalia to be able to access womens only spaces such as female changing rooms , domestic , abuse refuges , public toilets , and also compete in female only sports ? just. A question. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notts1874 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 10 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said: So notts Do you agree that it is ok for men who still have their male genitalia to be able to access womens only spaces such as female changing rooms , domestic , abuse refuges , public toilets , and also compete in female only sports ? just. A question. . Shall we start at the bottom? The decision on sport will remain upto the sport's governing body. You know like, darts, snooker and horse based sports where they compete together. Other sports are still looking into this. Most public leisure centres already have mixed changing areas. I've been into many establishment's that have one toilet area with separate locked cubicles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XB52 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 35 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said: Quite agree. This country is going to hell on a handcart, fast. The country is joining other enlightened democracies in supporting the rights of transgender people, while protecting the rights of others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i wish jj was my dad Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 38 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said: Well one thing is for sure I wont be getting involved in any " debates " like Monday night again. I have mainly made all my points clear. People know my views. Its a disastrous day in Scotland for freedom of thought, fact over fiction, and fundamentally women's and girls right to identity and safe spaces. All in your opinion. People, or at least I did, tried to engage in constructive debate but you couldn't accept that others don't have to share your opinion. As it happens, I am still open to persuasion but from the limited info I have seen in last few days- I am more inclined to think that the bill is a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i wish jj was my dad Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 24 minutes ago, Notts1874 said: I meant within the chamber specifically 👍👍 Goes without saying or at least it should. I am generally happy to have a pop at our elected members but disrupting the democratic process can never be a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 11 minutes ago, Notts1874 said: Shall we start at the bottom? The decision on sport will remain upto the sport's governing body. You know like, darts, snooker and horse based sports where they compete together. Other sports are still looking into this. Most public leisure centres already have mixed changing areas. I've been into many establishment's that have one toilet area with separate locked cubicles. But that's not your opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notts1874 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: But that's not your opinion. I was asked a question and gave an answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i wish jj was my dad Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 43 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said: Quite agree. This country is going to hell on a handcart, fast. You won't get an argument from me about that but in what way specifically? The arse is falling out of the country but disrupting democratic process and failing to acknowledge that others might have a legitimate opposing view isn't going to make it any better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Montpelier Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 15 minutes ago, XB52 said: The country is joining other enlightened democracies in supporting the rights of transgender people, while protecting the rights of others. You happy if your daughter was alone in a public toilet and a man walks in with a GRC and predatory instincts ?. Or not ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 5 minutes ago, Notts1874 said: I was asked a question and gave an answer. You were asked if you agreed with the points in the questions, you haven't really answered, I'd be interested in your answers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i wish jj was my dad Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 6 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said: You happy if your daughter was alone in a public toilet and a man walks in with a GRC and predatory instincts ?. Or not ? Uly addressed this a few days ago to say there was no known evidence of this happening in Ireland. I also caught something on radio Scotland this afternoon saying the same thing about Norway I think. But for clarity, I don't want a predator near anybody's daughter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notts1874 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 11 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: You were asked if you agreed with the points in the questions, you haven't really answered, I'd be interested in your answers. Oh I certainly did answer the questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, Notts1874 said: Oh I certainly did answer the questions. No you really never, do you agree with points in the post? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notts1874 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 1 minute ago, Dawnrazor said: No you really never, do you agree with points in the post? We can go around in circles here. I've given my answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notts1874 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 12 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said: Uly addressed this a few days ago to say there was no known evidence of this happening in Ireland. I also caught something on radio Scotland this afternoon saying the same thing about Norway I think. But for clarity, I don't want a predator near anybody's daughter. Ah, but Judy gave a screenshot from a Spectator article about Norway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, Notts1874 said: We can go around in circles here. I've given my answer. You haven't, why won't you give your opinions in the post? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notts1874 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 1 minute ago, Dawnrazor said: You haven't, why won't you give your opinions in the post? I think you will find I have, mostly by using facts and things that already exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, Notts1874 said: I think you will find I have, mostly by using facts and things that already exist. No, it was your opinion that was asked for, why are you being so defensive? C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i wish jj was my dad Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 4 minutes ago, Notts1874 said: Ah, but Judy gave a screenshot from a Spectator article about Norway. I doubt that the Spectator is adopting neutral stance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notts1874 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 4 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: No, it was your opinion that was asked for, why are you being so defensive? C I'm not being defensive. My opinion is clearly stated in the way I've answered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notts1874 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 3 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said: I doubt that the Spectator is adopting neutral stance. They are giving their opinion, that's fine, but they are presenting it as fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i wish jj was my dad Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 Just now, Notts1874 said: They are giving their opinion, that's fine, but they are presenting it as fact. It's a common theme Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notts1874 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 3 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said: It's a common theme Seems to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Montpelier Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 31 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said: Uly addressed this a few days ago to say there was no known evidence of this happening in Ireland. I also caught something on radio Scotland this afternoon saying the same thing about Norway I think. But for clarity, I don't want a predator near anybody's daughter. Another who has not heard of Katie dolotowski. Keep in view all predators start somewhere. This nonsence gives them somewhere easy to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Notts1874 said: I'm not being defensive. My opinion is clearly stated in the way I've answered. You were asked if you agreed with the points put to you, you came back with what other organisations were doing and what what was happening in an other country, you haven't answered. Can you answer the ponits in the the post? You've been one of the most vocal posters on this thread I'd have thought you'd have taken this opportunity to answer direct points put to you rather than avoiding giving your views. Edited December 21, 2022 by Dawnrazor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Montpelier Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 42 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said: You won't get an argument from me about that but in what way specifically? The arse is falling out of the country but disrupting democratic process and failing to acknowledge that others might have a legitimate opposing view isn't going to make it any better. Lots of things , but that's for another day. In the meantime let's hope those who are elected do everything in their power to keep girls and women safe. Hell mend them if they fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i wish jj was my dad Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 Just now, Lord Montpelier said: Lots of things , but that's for another day. In the meantime let's hope those who are elected do everything in their power to keep girls and women safe. Hell mend them if they fail. I hope girls and women are kept safe too. Despite all the noise, I still haven't seen any evidence to suggest this bill is going to change that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manaliveits105 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 Joanna Cherry sporting a hibs tartan scarf at the rally today snp riddled with hobos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Montpelier Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 1 minute ago, i wish jj was my dad said: I hope girls and women are kept safe too. Despite all the noise, I still haven't seen any evidence to suggest this bill is going to change that. Tbh I'll be telling my daughter what she needs to do if she feels threatened off the back of this (she already knows, but I'll be asking her to increase her awareness of predatory men entering private spaces). Better safe than sorry, she'll be told to leave that space if this happens. If it causes hurty feelings, tough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Montpelier Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 3 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said: Joanna Cherry sporting a hibs tartan scarf at the rally today snp riddled with hobos That's a shame, before I read that I thought she was from the normal / sensible department in the SNP. (Not that's there's many of them) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i wish jj was my dad Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 Just now, Lord Montpelier said: Tbh I'll be telling my daughter what she needs to do if she feels threatened off the back of this (she already knows, but I'll be asking her to increase her awareness of predatory men entering private spaces). Better safe than sorry, she'll be told to leave that space if this happens. If it causes hurty feelings, tough. I hope your daughter is safe too. Just the same as my daughter. Have you got any evidence to suggest she won't be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notts1874 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 12 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: You were asked if you agreed with the points put to you, you came back with what other organisations were doing and what what was happening in an other country, you haven't answered. Can you answer the ponits in the the post? You've been one of the most vocal posters on this thread I'd have thought you'd have taken this opportunity to answer direct points put to you rather than avoiding giving your views. I've answered with facts. I won't get drawn into an argument with someone who spreads falsehoods, not you btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 Just now, Notts1874 said: I've answered with facts. I won't get drawn into an argument with someone who spreads falsehoods, not you btw. The thing is, you haven't answered, it's obvious you haven't, you must know you haven't, the points were simple regardless of who asked you. Why won't you answer directly the points in the post? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Montpelier Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said: I hope your daughter is safe too. Just the same as my daughter. Have you got any evidence to suggest she won't be? Katie Dolotowski. Google it. Very local to me. That's enough for what I need, combined with my parental instinct, which is way more important than stats and charts (and I'm an analytical chap who likes a stat or two). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notts1874 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: The thing is, you haven't answered, it's obvious you haven't, you must know you haven't, the points were simple regardless of who asked you. Why won't you answer directly the points in the post? You mean I haven't answered them to your satisfaction? That's not how things work unfortunately. I've have shown how things already stand in Scotland,and the UK as a whole regarding what I was asked. Once more I will stick to facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 1 minute ago, Notts1874 said: You mean I haven't answered them to your satisfaction? That's not how things work unfortunately. I've have shown how things already stand in Scotland,and the UK as a whole regarding what I was asked. Once more I will stick to facts. No, you haven't just not answered to my satisfaction you have avoided answering at all, the questions were put to you and you have deflected at every chance, you weren't asked what Ireland were doing, you weren't asked what sports organisations were doing, you were asked if YOU thought men should be allowed into women only spaces and should men be allowed to complete againsts women in women only sports. Can you answer these questions please? If not, why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i wish jj was my dad Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 1 minute ago, Lord Montpelier said: Katie Dolotowski. Google it. Very local to me. That's enough for what I need, combined with my parental instinct, which is way more important than stats and charts (and I'm an analytical chap who likes a stat or two). I'm obviously showing some ignorance but if this happened before the bill has been enacted how is that evidence? If I am reading properly this beast was recognised as a male at the time of the sexual attack. Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notts1874 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: No, you haven't just not answered to my satisfaction you have avoided answering at all, the questions were put to you and you have deflected at every chance, you weren't asked what Ireland were doing, you weren't asked what sports organisations were doing, you were asked if YOU thought men should be allowed into women only spaces and should men be allowed to complete againsts women in women only sports. Can you answer these questions please? If not, why not? OK, I wasn't asked about Ireland. I never mentioned Ireland. I was asked about sports and I did answer that, with facts. I also answered about mixed gender spaces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Montpelier Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 5 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said: I'm obviously showing some ignorance but if this happened before the bill has been enacted how is that evidence? If I am reading properly this beast was recognised as a male at the time of the sexual attack. Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong KD was a trans women at the time of the attacks, as I understand it. As I said before, all predatory men start somewhere. Maybe the starting point in the future will be to self ID as female when they are not on the radar to make it easier to do what they want. Beware of unintended consequences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Montpelier Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 6 minutes ago, Notts1874 said: OK, I wasn't asked about Ireland. I never mentioned Ireland. I was asked about sports and I did answer that, with facts. I also answered about mixed gender spaces. No.. you were asked about women only spaces . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Notts1874 said: OK, I wasn't asked about Ireland. I never mentioned Ireland. I was asked about sports and I did answer that, with facts. I also answered about mixed gender spaces. My mistake, you're right, I think you made reference to Uly's point about Ireland but that was earlier. You said that some places had mixed sex changing rooms, but that didn't answer the questions you were asked, it's common knowledge that some places have mixed sex changing rooms, you were asked if you thought that men should be allowed into women only spaces, not mixed sex places but women only spaces and if men should be allowed to compete in women only sports against women, what's your answers to these points? Edited December 21, 2022 by Dawnrazor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notts1874 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said: No.. you were asked about women only spaces . Yep, I also answered, just like I did to yourself about mixed gender spaces that already exist and have done for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Montpelier Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 Just now, Dawnrazor said: My mistake, you're right, I think you made reference to Uly's point about Ireland but that was earlier. You said that some places had mixed sex changing rooms, but that didn't answer the questions you were asked, it's common knowledge that some places have mixed sex changing rooms, you were asked if you thought that men should be allowed into women only spaces, not mixed sex places but women only spaces and if men should be allowed to compete in womeen only sports against women, what's your answers to these points? I'm currently sat in my local leisure centre It has a female only toilet. Notts, answer the question. Should men be allowed in that toilet (and by men, those with male genitalia as traditionally recognised) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notts1874 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 3 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: My mistake, you're right, I think you made reference to Uly's point about Ireland but that was earlier. You said that some places had mixed sex changing rooms, but that didn't answer the questions you were asked, it's common knowledge that some places have mixed sex changing rooms, you were asked if you thought that men should be allowed into women only spaces, not mixed sex places but women only spaces and if men should be allowed to compete in womeen only sports against women, what's your answers to these points? I've answered all of them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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