****The All In One LGBTQ+ & Related Issues Mega Thread****

[JimBett365]

2 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

I don’t get it ? 

That’s ok, it wasn’t in reply to you 👍🏻

[JimBett365]

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

You're so dishonest in your debating James man, you're deliberately missing the point and throwing an accusation back so you don't get pressed on it. It's piss poor form.

And with that truth bullet, I’m off to bed 👍🏻

[Unknown user]

Just now, JudyJudyJudy said:

I disagree . 

 

That's absolutely what's happening

[i wish jj was my dad]

1 minute ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

When did I say you made homophobic comments ? 

You chucked a scattergun comment earlier in the thread after i responded to you, I'm not going looking for it at 11.23 but I asked you pretty quickly if you were aiming it me. You may have added delusional in that post or another shortly after. I repeatedly asked you to clarify. If you can do that - and withdraw your latest allegation about gaslighting - it just leaves my original question about Ireland for you to address. 

 

[i wish jj was my dad]

3 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

That's absolutely what's happening

I've tried not to bring others into this but it's exactly what is happening. 

[Notts1874]

3 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

I've tried not to bring others into this but it's exactly what is happening. 

You have been very reasoned. You have said that you are open to views and that you aren't informed enough to form a definite conclusion. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

12 minutes ago, JimBett365 said:

That’s ok, it wasn’t in reply to you 👍🏻

Snidey comment . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

18 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

You're so dishonest in your debating James man, you're deliberately missing the point and throwing an accusation back so you don't get pressed on it. It's piss poor form.

No he scoffed about a religious community having a view on this issue and was rightly challenged about it . Anyone can have a view about it 

[JudyJudyJudy]

13 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

You chucked a scattergun comment earlier in the thread after i responded to you, I'm not going looking for it at 11.23 but I asked you pretty quickly if you were aiming it me. You may have added delusional in that post or another shortly after. I repeatedly asked you to clarify. If you can do that - and withdraw your latest allegation about gaslighting - it just leaves my original question about Ireland for you to address. 

 

No

looked back and can’t see that “ scattergun “ comment , perhaps you should find it then ?  I did answer Ully 

[JudyJudyJudy]

17 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

That's absolutely what's happening

Smithee now the psychologist on JKB . Maybe lay off the smoke sann 

[Unknown user]

Just now, JudyJudyJudy said:

Smithee now the psychologist on JKB . Maybe lay off the smoke sann 

Now who's gaslighting?

[Unknown user]

4 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

No he scoffed about a religious community having a view on this issue and was rightly challenged about it . Anyone can have a view about it 

 

That's not what happened though.

[i wish jj was my dad]

2 minutes ago, Notts1874 said:

You have been very reasoned. You have said that you are open to views and that you aren't informed enough to form a definite conclusion. 

Thank you. I genuinely don't want to get into a pile on. I've been on the wrong end of of one on here which the same guy might remember but given my daughter's own sexuality and the importance I have placed on supporting her, this hits a VERY raw nerve. And I am not apologising for being sensitive about it. 

The poster concerned seems to think it is OK to attack and censor everyone he disagrees with but cries foul when called out. 

I'm taking no pleasure in this and he can fight whatever cause he cares about but he needs to accept that everyone has the same rights and there are consequences for abusing those rights or at least there should be. 

[Ulysses]

4 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

I did answer Ully 

 

No you didn't. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Great statement from Leo 

 

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

Thank you. I genuinely don't want to get into a pile on. I've been on the wrong end of of one on here which the same guy might remember but given my daughter's own sexuality and the importance I have placed on supporting her, this hits a VERY raw nerve. And I am not apologising for being sensitive about it. 

The poster concerned seems to think it is OK to attack and censor everyone he disagrees with but cries foul when called out. 

I'm taking no pleasure in this and he can fight whatever cause he cares about but he needs to accept that everyone has the same rights and there are consequences for abusing those rights or at least there should be. 

But I haven’t attacked Our censored any points on this . Virulently disagreed as it’s an important issue . Trans people , those who self id , have exactly the same rights As everyone else . That’s not in dispute . 
 

what is in dispute is their right to enter womens only safe spaces , that’s the primary concern. Stop distorting things . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

No you didn't. 

Read back 

[JudyJudyJudy]

6 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

That's not what happened though.

Laughing emojis ? 

[i wish jj was my dad]

4 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

No

looked back and can’t see that “ scattergun “ comment , perhaps you should find it then ?  I did answer Ully 

You really didn't answer Uly. I think you said there were loads of examples in other countries or words to that effect but provided no evidence or stats to support that Ireland was more dangerous for women or girls far as I can tell. 

I can look back to find your delusional/homophobic comments in the morning if it makes you feel better but you will easily find my first response asking you to clarify. 

Can I take that as read that I am neither homophobic, deluded or a gaslighter though? And full disclosure I had to check what the latter meant. 

[Ulysses]

1 minute ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Read back 

 

You didn't answer the point I raised about the factual position in Ireland over 7 years.  You did two things.

 

1. Posted repeats of your opinions - none of which alter the factual information I provided.

2. Posted an opinion by someone else - that didn't contradict any of the factual information I provided.

 

You haven't answered, because you can't.  If you were able to do so, you would have done so by now.

 

 

[i wish jj was my dad]

1 minute ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

But I haven’t attacked Our censored any points on this . Virulently disagreed as it’s an important issue . Trans people , those who self id , have exactly the same rights As everyone else . That’s not in dispute . 
 

what is in dispute is their right to enter womens only safe spaces , that’s the primary concern. Stop distorting things . 

You said there was no debate. That is censoring. 

 

I'm not distorting anything. I don't want woman, man, child or whatever any human being to be unsafe or afforded less rights. If you can find anything where I have suggested differently show me. 

 

I have asked you to clarify your points. You haven't done that. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

You really didn't answer Uly. I think you said there were loads of examples in other countries or words to that effect but provided no evidence or stats to support that Ireland was more dangerous for women or girls far as I can tell. 

I can look back to find your delusional/homophobic comments in the morning if it makes you feel better but you will easily find my first response asking you to clarify. 

Can I take that as read that I am neither homophobic, deluded or a gaslighter though? And full disclosure I had to check what the latter meant. 

Never said you were homophobic but I was offended by you making an assumption that I went radge at that event last week . 

[jack D and coke]

On 15/12/2022 at 10:41, John Gentleman said:

Think of it in reverse. Imagine a biological female identifying as a male, at your place of work. S/he asserts that s/he uses the male toilet.
I haven't got a problem with a trans using a urinal, but I'll bet you s/he does! 

A lass came in and used the mens toilets in front of me and a load of other lads few years ago down Newcastle. 
Blasting it out at the urinal she was. 
I was extremely impressed.

[i wish jj was my dad]

And sorry for bringing Uly into this. Up until today, I don't recall quoting or discussing anything with him. I just found his post enlightening about something I know little about. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

You said there was no debate. That is censoring. 

 

I'm not distorting anything. I don't want woman, man, child or whatever any human being to be unsafe or afforded less rights. If you can find anything where I have suggested differently show me. 

 

I have asked you to clarify your points. You haven't done that. 

There is no debate in my book that a person can change sex . That is my view and will always Be . Sorry thought it was clear about that . I also don’t agree that a person can’t “ live “ their daily life as the opposite sex 

[i wish jj was my dad]

Just now, JudyJudyJudy said:

Never said you were homophobic but I was offended by you making an assumption that I went radge at that event last week . 

I said that I found it difficult to square with your behaviour today.  I admitted I wasn't there so can't contradict you but if you reflect on what you have posted which is my admitted limited exposure to you, can you see why it doesn't look credible? 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, i wish jj was my dad said:

I said that I found it difficult to square with your behaviour today.  I admitted I wasn't there so can't contradict you but if you reflect on what you have posted which is my admitted limited exposure to you, can you see why it doesn't look credible? 

Nope . Can’t see it . At all . Sorry . 
 

 

[i wish jj was my dad]

1 minute ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

There is no debate in my book that a person can change sex . That is my view and will always Be . Sorry thought it was clear about that . I also don’t agree that a person can’t “ live “ their daily life as the opposite sex 

That is your opinion. One which the courts don't seem to agree with but you are entitled to have that view. 

Still open to debate though. 

 

[Notts1874]

10 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

Thank you. I genuinely don't want to get into a pile on. I've been on the wrong end of of one on here which the same guy might remember but given my daughter's own sexuality and the importance I have placed on supporting her, this hits a VERY raw nerve. And I am not apologising for being sensitive about it. 

The poster concerned seems to think it is OK to attack and censor everyone he disagrees with but cries foul when called out. 

I'm taking no pleasure in this and he can fight whatever cause he cares about but he needs to accept that everyone has the same rights and there are consequences for abusing those rights or at least there should be. 

You are more than welcome. Your daughter sounds like a good person. 

 

This is probably a good time to reveal something else. I'm gay, I'm also a crossdresser, I look fabulous btw 😂😂 but the same poster was very close to calling me homophobic because I disagreed with him. 

 

Im not trans and I don't want to identify as a woman but I have huge empathy for those those that genuinely are trans. There are folks on here that know me personally and will confirm what I've said. 

 

They will also, no doubt, confirm I'm a bit of a dick!! 

[i wish jj was my dad]

Just now, JudyJudyJudy said:

Nope . Can’t see it . At all . Sorry . 
 

 

Not going to go round the houses with you. Let's just accept we have differing views and leave it there. If others reading this care they will form their own views. 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

Not going to go round the houses with you. Let's just accept we have differing views and leave it there. If others reading this care they will form their own views. 

 

Yes goodnight . 

[Ulysses]

Just now, i wish jj was my dad said:

And sorry for bringing Uly into this. Up until today, I don't recall quoting or discussing anything with him. I just found his post enlightening about something I know little about. 

 

All cool.  It's not something I know a lot about either.  I do know that people have cited Ireland as a "bad example", when in fact it isn't.  I also know is that this is an issue involving very small numbers of people, but it has led to two groups of people creating big bandwagons and spending their time roaring and shouting at the rest of us to jump aboard.  I know that some people in Ireland want to repeal our legislation, while the country's leading feminists are supportive of it, and while there is no evidence that it has actually caused the degree of harm that people say it would if passed in Scotland. 

 

No-one has answered - or even tried to address - my question about the differences between the Scots and the Irish.  If someone thinks this legislation will do terrible damage in Scotland over the next 7 years when it hasn't done that damage in Ireland over the last 7 years, what exactly do they think is so wrong with Scottish people?  And if they don't think there is something so wrong with the Scots compared to the Irish then what other reason is there for thinking things will be so different in Scotland?

 

I don't even carry any flag for this ****ing legislation.  I'm just mentioning relevant information because someone asked, and I'm fascinated as to why people are so intent on pretending it's not there or not real.

[i wish jj was my dad]

2 minutes ago, Notts1874 said:

You are more than welcome. Your daughter sounds like a good person. 

 

This is probably a good time to reveal something else. I'm gay, I'm also a crossdresser, I look fabulous btw 😂😂 but the same poster was very close to calling me homophobic because I disagreed with him. 

 

Im not trans and I don't want to identify as a woman but I have huge empathy for those those that genuinely are trans. There are folks on here that know me personally and will confirm what I've said. 

 

They will also, no doubt, confirm I'm a bit of a dick!! 

Thanks for sharing, buddy. I had no idea and hope that you are comfortable sharing and did  not feel compelled to in order to defend how you feel about this issue.  

FWIW, I couldn't give a four x beyond knowing I am nervous about unwittingly causing offence but I do admire your courage. I have family beyond my daughter who have experienced much more difficult situations without feeling the same level of support and an ex who was thoroughly rabid in her opposition to trans rights.

Take it to the bank that I will challenge whatever pish you happen to post about Hearts that doesn't exactly conform with my views on the team or club though! 

[BlueRiver]

1 hour ago, JimBett365 said:

Tattoos, piercings, lobe gauging all arguably alter a healthy body. Where do we draw the line? Teenagers are remarkably astute young adults in my experience. They’re much better informed about the world and aware of their rights than I was at that age. They should be able to make informed choices about their own lives. 
 

*I reserve the right to totally change this view in 10 years time when my own daughters become teenagers! 🙈

 

 

 

I'm not so sure on that if I'm honest. From my experience teenagers and young adults suffer from the same tunnel vision that I did at that age as well. 

 

They often lack the pragmatism or nuance in their thinking that often only comes around when you hit a certain age and reality (unfiltered, out on your own reality) kicks in. 

 

Not to say I don't believe there's plenty of smart younger people. I was very aware of my rights (perhaps less so my responsibilities) at a young age. I'd have been adamant that I was best placed to make certain decisions on a lot of matters. Looking back now though...hmm. 

 

Answering your overall question though I think its clear a lot of folk draw the line just before allowing them to lop their twanger off 🤣

[Ulysses]

1 minute ago, BlueRiver said:

 

They often lack the pragmatism or nuance in their thinking that often only comes around when you hit a certain age and reality (unfiltered, out on your own reality) kicks in. 

 

 

That's 100% true.

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

 

I'm not so sure on that if I'm honest. From my experience teenagers and young adults suffer from the same tunnel vision that I did at that age as well. 

 

They often lack the pragmatism or nuance in their thinking that often only comes around when you hit a certain age and reality (unfiltered, out on your own reality) kicks in. 

 

Not to say I don't believe there's plenty of smart younger people. I was very aware of my rights (perhaps less so my responsibilities) at a young age. I'd have been adamant that I was best placed to make certain decisions on a lot of matters. Looking back now though...hmm. 

 

Answering your overall question though I think its clear a lot of folk draw the line just before allowing them to lop their twanger off 🤣

Good posting . Brains are not fully

developed until 25 . 

[Ulysses]

Just now, JudyJudyJudy said:

Good posting . Brains are not fully

developed until 25 . 

 

Yet we let people vote, join the army and kill others on our behalf, marry, reproduce, buy houses, make lifetime financial and personal commitments, waaaay before 25.

 

If we change the age of maturity and consent for all those things to 25, will you be happy then?

[Notts1874]

3 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

Thanks for sharing, buddy. I had no idea and hope that you are comfortable sharing and did  not feel compelled to in order to defend how you feel about this issue.  

FWIW, I couldn't give a four x beyond knowing I am nervous about unwittingly causing offence but I do admire your courage. I have family beyond my daughter who have experienced much more difficult situations without feeling the same level of support and an ex who was thoroughly rabid in her opposition to trans rights.

Take it to the bank that I will challenge whatever pish you happen to post about Hearts that doesn't exactly conform with my views on the team or club though! 

I wouldn't share it without feeling comfortable.. ish. Apart from my family, I shared it on twitter first, probably almost 18 months ago. The support was incredible. It sort of went viral throughout Scottish football twitter for a day. I even got a nice message from @Barack

[BlueRiver]

5 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

That's 100% true.

 

4 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Good posting . Brains are not fully

developed until 25 . 

 

Considering how long adolescence seems to run in the modern world for a hell of a lot of people I reckon there's a fair argument for increasing ages on a lot of things. 

 

I'm not necessarily defending or advocating that position myself but even looking back at myself at 20. I was a smart young man, but christ I was an idiot. 

[Unknown user]

3 minutes ago, Notts1874 said:

I wouldn't share it without feeling comfortable.. ish. Apart from my family, I shared it on twitter first, probably almost 18 months ago. The support was incredible. It sort of went viral throughout Scottish football twitter for a day. I even got a nice message from @Barack

👍

[i wish jj was my dad]

1 minute ago, Notts1874 said:

I wouldn't share it without feeling comfortable.. ish. Apart from my family, I shared it on twitter first, probably almost 18 months ago. The support was incredible. It sort of went viral throughout Scottish football twitter for a day. I even got a nice message from @Barack

Good for you, pal 👍. I still have a faith that most of us are good ^^^^s and want everyone to be happy and get along. It really shouldn't be difficult. It really shouldn't. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Ulysses said:

 

Yet we let people vote, join the army and kill others on our behalf, marry, reproduce, buy houses, make lifetime financial and personal commitments, waaaay before 25.

 

If we change the age of maturity and consent for all those things to 25, will you be happy then?

Don’t ask

me that it’s the SG who are all over the brain developmenT neuro science . No I happen to think that after 18 I would think people probably know what they want from life . The Sg are tailoring policies to be on congruence with brain development stuff ( when it suits them) but not with this issue 

[Ulysses]

2 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

 

Considering how long adolescence seems to run in the modern world for a hell of a lot of people I reckon there's a fair argument for increasing ages on a lot of things. 

 

 

But now there are debates in several countries about reducing the voting age, not about raising it.  At some point we have to let people be grown-ups and take responsibility for their lives, even if they still have things to learn.  

 

[i wish jj was my dad]

1 minute ago, Ulysses said:

 

But now there are debates in several countries about reducing the voting age, not about raising it.  At some point we have to let people be grown-ups and take responsibility for their lives, even if they still have things to learn.  

 

There is definitely a maturity debate to be had. I'm certainly not the same person I was at 18 or 21. I may have more knowledge now but it is debatable whether I learned much from it. 

I'm pretty sure I would have understood my sexuality or gender by 16-18 though. 

[Ulysses]

4 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Don’t ask

me that it’s the SG who are all over the brain developmenT neuro science . No I happen to think that after 18 I would think people probably know what they want from life . The Sg are tailoring policies to be on congruence with brain development stuff ( when it suits them) but not with this issue 

 

"Don't ask me"?  Is that you backing out of debate again?  You're the one who raised the issue of age, yet when I point out that there are literally shedloads of very serious things that people can do at 18 that have profound and lifelong consequences, you just chuck it in the air and feck off?  Is that it?

 

And why just this issue?  We let people drive in their teens.  The stats show that young drivers, especially fellas, are disproportionately likely to be involved in accidents that cause deaths, serious life-altering disabilities and other significant physical injuries and mental health traumas.  These things are every single bit as serious as the things you claim could happen if this gender recognition legislation is passed - I say claim, because of course you still haven't answered the factual information about Ireland that I presented.  But one of these things is OK to let happen in your book, and the other is not.  That, put simply, is a weird set of priorities, especially when you look at the factual information.

[Ulysses]

3 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

There is definitely a maturity debate to be had. I'm certainly not the same person I was at 18 or 21. I may have more knowledge now but it is debatable whether I learned much from it. 

I'm pretty sure I would have understood my sexuality or gender by 16-18 though. 

 

I'd agree.  There comes a point in life where we have to say that someone is developed and mature enough, even though we know they'll go on to grow and learn as they gain more life experience.  For most purposes in the UK and Ireland we say that's 18, and for others we say it's in the 16-18 range.

 

But in any case as you'll see from my posts above, I suspect the age thing is another red herring in this debate.

[JudyJudyJudy]

12 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

"Don't ask me"?  Is that you backing out of debate again?  You're the one who raised the issue of age, yet when I point out that there are literally shedloads of very serious things that people can do at 18 that have profound and lifelong consequences, you just chuck it in the air and feck off?  Is that it?

 

And why just this issue?  We let people drive in their teens.  The stats show that young drivers, especially fellas, are disproportionately likely to be involved in accidents that cause deaths, serious life-altering disabilities and other significant physical injuries and mental health traumas.  These things are every single bit as serious as the things you claim could happen if this gender recognition legislation is passed - I say claim, because of course you still haven't answered the factual information about Ireland that I presented.  But one of these things is OK to let happen in your book, and the other is not.  That, put simply, is a weird set of priorities, especially when you look at the factual information.

No I said after 18 people are probably mature enough to make decisions however the brain development science states that the brain is not fully developed until 25 . Therefore there is a tension between policies and science . 

Edited December 20, 2022 by JudyJudyJudy

[i wish jj was my dad]

1 minute ago, Ulysses said:

 

I'd agree.  There comes a point in life where we have to say that someone is developed and mature enough, even though we know they'll go on to grow and learn as they gain more life experience.  For most purposes in the UK and Ireland we say that's 18, and for others we say it's in the 16-18 range.

 

But in any case as you'll see from my posts above, I suspect the age thing is another red herring in this debate.

At the risk of setting off another firework, I think a lot of the posts are red herrings designed to avoid answering difficult questions. 

 

Taking it off topic for a bit. A lot of very age mature people voted for the most financially damaging decision the UK has made in living memory. If 16 year olds were allowed to vote it absolutely would not have happened.  So it is a good example that age has no monopoly on wisdom. IMO of course before the pile on. 

 

 

 

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

https://www.simplypsychology.org/neuroscience.html
 

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

If 16 year olds were allowed to vote it absolutely would not have happened.  So it is a good example that age has no monopoly on wisdom. IMO of course before the pile on. 

Once you start paying taxes then you can vote in my book .