****The All In One LGBTQ+ & Related Issues Mega Thread****

[Lord Montpelier]

2 minutes ago, Notts1874 said:

Once again you are putting words in my mouth. Again I hope the law passes with this amendment to make life easier for trans people. 

..and safer for kids and women as well you probably should add. 

[JimBett365]

57 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Didn't think you would like it  . Doesn't fit with your world view. 

Which is?

[JimBett365]

58 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

10 year old girl. Female toilet. Morrisons. 

😞

[Notts1874]

2 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

..and safer for kids and women as well you probably should add. 

Kids and women should be kept safe regardless surely. 

[Francis Albert]

47 minutes ago, Notts1874 said:

What is this LGB Alliance then? 

I guessed what it was from the name and some posts on this thread. A bit of googling confirmed my guess was spot on. It is an alliance of lesbian, gay and bisexual people. Some of its views for example about the reality of gender and opposition to the idea that it is self determined  will offend some trans people. As we have seen to the point of denying people's right to express those views.

[Lord Montpelier]

5 minutes ago, JimBett365 said:

Which is?

You tell me. One of your pals just accused me of putting words in their mouth wouldn't want to do the same with you. 

[Lord Montpelier]

5 minutes ago, Notts1874 said:

Kids and women should be kept safe regardless surely. 

Sorry. Can't agree. This erodes womens rights , one of which is to have confidence of being in a private space with other women. Physical danger and mental anxiety will both be introduced. 

[Lord Montpelier]

8 minutes ago, JimBett365 said:

😞

Nothing else to say ? Any thoughts on how to prevent this happening again ? Or just plough on blindly with occasional references to other countries. 

[Notts1874]

8 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

I guessed what it was from the name and some posts on this thread. A bit of googling confirmed my guess was spot on. It is an alliance of lesbian, gay and bisexual people. Some of its views for example about the reality of gender and opposition to the idea that it is self determined  will offend some trans people. As we have seen to the point of denying people's right to express those views.

Why did they encourage sending hateful messages to an openly gay MP then? 

[Notts1874]

4 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Sorry. Can't agree. This erodes womens rights , one of which is to have confidence of being in a private space with other women. Physical danger and mental anxiety will both be introduced. 

I don't know about you but my local leisure centre/swimming pool has had unisex changing rooms for years. 

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, Jeffros Furios said:

It's full of tossers who wear North Face , drink pish ales and are golf bores ..

 

I'd rather take it up the arse

[Thunder and Lightning]

5 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

No I’m an old gay who is rallying against pseudo science and it’s impact on not only women and girls but gays and lesbians mate . I don’t mind identifying as an old fart at all ! If I was a young gay I’d be screaming in the other direction in this argument more than likely . 

😂 

[il Duce McTarkin]

10 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

I'd rather take it up the arse

 

@Jeffros Furios is yer man.

[JimBett365]

1 hour ago, Dawnrazor said:

Do you disagree with or dispute the figures in the poll?

If it’s a properly run poll which is legit then what’s to dispute? I’ve already said I too have reservations around it so depending on how exactly the question was worded I’d probably vote that way too. 

[doctor jambo]

Seemingly there are 142 amendments tabled for the bill .

If people can even think of that many adjustments then, we’ll, it appears really badly thought out .

And surely if you have a conviction for sexual offences that should automatically bar you from accessing womens spaces as infinitum ?

 

[BlueRiver]

59 minutes ago, Notts1874 said:

To quote the West Wing or probably somebody else before that. Two things you don't want to see the making off, sausages and laws. 

 

Cross party amendments also, generally, have more chance of being included. 

 

Otto von Bismarck made the remark about laws and sausages. Absolutely no bearing on literally anything but thought I'd let you know 🤣

[JudyJudyJudy]

22 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Nothing else to say ? Any thoughts on how to prevent this happening again ? Or just plough on blindly with occasional references to other countries. 

They ain’t interested . It’s collateral damage . 

[doctor jambo]

2 minutes ago, jonesy said:

I'd like to know how and why the UN felt the need to get involved. Were they alerted to issues surrounding the bill or do they do this routinely?

The special envoy for the rights of penised lesbians has to justify the expenses bill I would  imagine .

if you have a job title with the word “ inclusion “ I would imagine you would struggle to find a reason to visit a western nation on an5 star jolly these days to support gays/ women/ people of colour as that has already been dealt with.
So you either spend your time being ignored in Qatar/ Ghana and so on or find a new cause Celebre to piggy back onto.

same as the NHS diversity and inclusion champions.

Without trans you are unemployed 

[Dawnrazor]

9 minutes ago, JimBett365 said:

If it’s a properly run poll which is legit then what’s to dispute? I’ve already said I too have reservations around it so depending on how exactly the question was worded I’d probably vote that way too. 

It sounded like you were dismissing the results as you didn't like the publication they appeared in, apologies if I picked you up wrong, easily done in my defence as it happens often in this and other threads.

 

[JimBett365]

1 hour ago, Notts1874 said:

What is this LGB Alliance then? 

An abhorrent organisation despised by most LGBT people. Here’s an example:

LGB Alliance tells tribunal it will ‘get around to’ helping LGB people

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/5050/mermaids-appeals-charity-commission-lgb-alliance-status/

 

32 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

I guessed what it was from the name and some posts on this thread. A bit of googling confirmed my guess was spot on. It is an alliance of lesbian, gay and bisexual people. Some of its views for example about the reality of gender and opposition to the idea that it is self determined  will offend some trans people. As we have seen to the point of denying people's right to express those views.

They don’t just offend trans people. They offend the majority of gay people too.

 

25 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Nothing else to say ? Any thoughts on how to prevent this happening again ? Or just plough on blindly with occasional references to other countries. 

It sounds dreadful. Not sure what else there is to say. Those kind of people will always find a way to do the horrible things they do, regardless of GRCs or any  safeguarding measures put in place. 

[Dawnrazor]

11 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

 

And surely if you have a conviction for sexual offences that should automatically bar you from accessing womens spaces as infinitum ?

 

You'd think.

This is an obvious concern, would people with a sexual assault or similar conviction as a man still carry it if they register as a women? 

[JimBett365]

6 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

They ain’t interested . It’s collateral damage . 

Love how you try to predict my responses and put words in my mouth and you’re almost always wrong. 😂 Two perfect examples on the last page. 🤣

[JimBett365]

5 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

It sounded like you were dismissing the results as you didn't like the publication they appeared in, apologies if I picked you up wrong, easily done in my defence as it happens often in this and other threads.

 

Not at all👍🏻 I was asking for more details on the poll and rather than being given them I was directed to go read Wings Over Scotland. 
 

 

[Dawnrazor]

1 minute ago, JimBett365 said:

Not at all👍🏻 I was asking for more details on the poll and rather than being given them I was directed to go read Wings Over Scotland. 
 

 

Is there no information about it there?

[JimBett365]

Just now, Dawnrazor said:

Is there no information about it there?

It’s a dire website with completely biased views which I won’t give any additional revenue to. If it’s a legit survey then I’m sure it’ll be in multiple media sites. Happy to get a link to it.

Like I said before, if it’s an authentic poll and has those results then I’m not overly surprised. As the bill stands, pre-amendments, I too have concerns.

[JudyJudyJudy]

26 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

I'd rather take it up the arse

Reminds me of the time a “ straight “ guy asked me in a pub one night

 

” what’s it’s like taking it up arse ?  

 

my reply ; 

 

“ no sure , maybe you should  ask your wife that though “ 

 

( it works in several levels ) 

 

He was trying to be wide . Albeit trying to be humorous . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Lots of shooting the messenger on this thread 

[JudyJudyJudy]

13 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

The special envoy for the rights of penised lesbians has to justify the expenses bill I would  imagine .

if you have a job title with the word “ inclusion “ I would imagine you would struggle to find a reason to visit a western nation on an5 star jolly these days to support gays/ women/ people of colour as that has already been dealt with.
So you either spend your time being ignored in Qatar/ Ghana and so on or find a new cause Celebre to piggy back onto.

same as the NHS diversity and inclusion champions.

Without trans you are unemployed 

Well said 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Poster complains about another poster not using authentic sites regarding info then is directed to a site to peruse over a poll and is contents but declined to do so , but then also condemns said site . 
 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

58 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

I'm not a lawmaker either. But I am an expert it stating the bloody obvious. And it's bloody obvious this should have been in from the start. 

 

You excuse that. Fair play , your prerogative. 

👍👍👍

[JudyJudyJudy]

27 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

142 amendments

That really says it all . 

[FJT]

16 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

The special envoy for the rights of penised lesbians has to justify the expenses bill I would  imagine .

if you have a job title with the word “ inclusion “ I would imagine you would struggle to find a reason to visit a western nation on an5 star jolly these days to support gays/ women/ people of colour as that has already been dealt with.
So you either spend your time being ignored in Qatar/ Ghana and so on or find a new cause Celebre to piggy back onto.

same as the NHS diversity and inclusion champions.

Without trans you are unemployed 

I gather you may not be ‘gay a woman nor a person of colour if you think ‘that’s all been dealt with’ 😳

[Notts1874]

Poster only replies to people he agrees with but won't engage in any debate. 

Deluded 

Fantasy 

Cult 

Contempt. 

[JimBett365]

9 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Poster complains about another poster not using authentic sites regarding info then is directed to a site to peruse over a poll and is contents but declined to do so , but then also condemns said site . 
 

 

🤣

[JimBett365]

The 142 tabled amendments is quite reassuring. Suggests that the finished article will be one of the most scrutinised and fine-tuned pieces of legislation we have, and rightly so given how important it is that it’s right.

[Ked]

7 minutes ago, Notts1874 said:

Poster only replies to people he agrees with but won't engage in any debate. 

Deluded 

Fantasy 

Cult 

Contempt. 

Maybe there's little point.

 

I doubt there's many who would adopt a view on this that contradicts their general political outlook.

I include myself and I like to think I take a view apolitical.(Is apolitical a valid description?)

You can't be persuaded to take on board the opposite view to yours on this subject.

I doubt any poster on this can.

It's all about statements.

 

 

[Francis Albert]

54 minutes ago, Notts1874 said:

Why did they encourage sending hateful messages to an openly gay MP then? 

I don't know. Do you. Given the nature of the group it seems unlikely that it was just  because the  MP was gay.

[JimBett365]

Just now, Francis Albert said:

I don't know. Do you. Given the nature of the group it seems unlikely that it was just  because the  MP was gay.

Dunno. The more that comes out about them the more their motivations become clear, including political:

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/5050/lgb-alliance-55-tufton-street-think-tanks/

 

[Notts1874]

2 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

I don't know. Do you. Given the nature of the group it seems unlikely that it was just  because the  MP was gay.

It was because he praised the achievements of a young trans person in his community. Don’t you think it's strange that a group called the LGB Alliance would target a member of the gay community?

[Ked]

1 minute ago, JimBett365 said:

The 142 tabled amendments is quite reassuring. Suggests that the finished article will be one of the most scrutinised and fine-tuned pieces of legislation we have, and rightly so given how important it is that it’s right.

I agree.

Imo we are playing with the science of nature which is 100% versus an awful lot of anecdotal type evidence.

 

[Ked]

Just now, Notts1874 said:

It was because he praised the achievements of a young trans person in his community. Don’t you think it's strange that a group called the LGB Alliance would target a member of the gay community?

There's lots of conundrums in this argument.

I found it strange lots of individual cases that support your line.

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

I don't know. Do you. Given the nature of the group it seems unlikely that it was just  because the  MP was gay.

The LGB is a group formed to protect gay lesbian and bi peoples rights and equality . It is almost a breakaway group from Stonewall which only took on the T as most LGB  rights and equalities had been won . The battle was almost over However since they are a business they needed to get cash from some source . It’s that simple .,

[JimBett365]

4 minutes ago, Ked said:

Maybe there's little point.

 

I doubt there's many who would adopt a view on this that contradicts their general political outlook.

I include myself and I like to think I take a view apolitical.(Is apolitical a valid description?)

You can't be persuaded to take on board the opposite view to yours on this subject.

I doubt any poster on this can.

It's all about statements.

 

 

You make a good point. Although if true you also have to let everybody else make statements without labelling them woke, homophobic etc.

[JimBett365]

3 minutes ago, Notts1874 said:

It was because he praised the achievements of a young trans person in his community. Don’t you think it's strange that a group called the LGB Alliance would target a member of the gay community?

Really? That’s vile. 😡

[Notts1874]

5 minutes ago, Ked said:

Maybe there's little point.

 

I doubt there's many who would adopt a view on this that contradicts their general political outlook.

I include myself and I like to think I take a view apolitical.(Is apolitical a valid description?)

You can't be persuaded to take on board the opposite view to yours on this subject.

I doubt any poster on this can.

It's all about statements.

 

 

Apolitical is certainly a valid description. My username will suggest why in my circumstances. I don't vote in Scotland. 

 

The main crux of my argument is the language used in the discussion by a certain poster. I have tried to remain reasoned throughout. Its not just about changing minds, it's about putting an alternative viewpoint. Of course I can look at the bill and understand peoples concerns, I can also understand why people support it. 

 

There is no need to vilify all trans people though and that's what someone is trying to do. 

[JimBett365]

1 minute ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

The LGB is a group formed to protect gay lesbian and bi peoples rights and equality . It is almost a breakaway group from Stonewall which only took on the T as most LGB  rights and equalities had been won . The battle was almost over However since they are a business they needed to get cash from some source . It’s that simple .,

If that’s their purpose then they’re doing a shit job. 😂 Despised by most of the gay community and in the press constantly due to their vile behaviours.

 

[JimBett365]

2 minutes ago, Notts1874 said:

Of course I can look at the bill and understand peoples concerns, I can also understand why people support it. 

 

There is no need to vilify all trans people though and that's what someone is trying to do. 

 on both paragraphs.

[FJT]

1 minute ago, JimBett365 said:

 on both paragraphs.

Seconded

[JimBett365]

“Promoting the equality and human rights of lesbian, gay and bisexual people may be pursued without denigrating the rights of transgender people” - England and Wales Charities Commission

 

Amen to that.

[Notts1874]

14 minutes ago, JimBett365 said:

Really? That’s vile. 😡

Yep, really.