National rail strikes planned by RMT

[Fxxx the SPFL]

32 minutes ago, theshed said:

Train drivers announce strikes but you’ve landed lucky as it’s the 1st and 3rd of feb so won’t affect you. 
 

Rmt also have to give two weeks notice if I’m right so you will be fine 

Cheers, Just saw that as we're coming back on the 31st 1pm train from Birmingham hopefully still running i know they stop the trains earlier the day before a strike

[John Findlay]

1 hour ago, **** the SPFL said:

Cheers, Just saw that as we're coming back on the 31st 1pm train from Birmingham hopefully still running i know they stop the trains earlier the day before a strike

You will be fine for 1pm on the 31st.

[theshed]

1 hour ago, **** the SPFL said:

Cheers, Just saw that as we're coming back on the 31st 1pm train from Birmingham hopefully still running i know they stop the trains earlier the day before a strike

They only stop early when it’s RMT signal men on strike. This is drivers so they will work their full shift on the 31st 

[Fxxx the SPFL]

46 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

You will be fine for 1pm on the 31st.

👍

[Fxxx the SPFL]

24 minutes ago, theshed said:

They only stop early when it’s RMT signal men on strike. This is drivers so they will work their full shift on the 31st 

good man cheers.

[Shooter McGavin]

And folk wonder why the countries on strike…

[Nucky Thompson]

12 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

And folk wonder why the countries on strike…

I've never been fortunate enough to get full sick pay at any job I've worked at.

Many a time I've limped onto a building site on a Monday morning after a Sunday league game.

Also turned up full of the cold many times.

No show, no wages

[Shooter McGavin]

7 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

I've never been fortunate enough to get full sick pay at any job I've worked at.

Many a time I've limped onto a building site on a Monday morning after a Sunday league game.

Also turned up full of the cold many times.

No show, no wages

Your point being?

[IronJambo]

7 hours ago, theshed said:

They only stop early when it’s RMT signal men on strike. This is drivers so they will work their full shift on the 31st 

They will stop early for the drivers strike so they can have trains in the correct place to follow their plan for the strike date. Not 1pm early though.

Edited January 17, 2023 by IronJambo

[fabienleclerq]

7 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

Your point being?

His point is he had shit conditions so everyone else should.

[il Duce McTarkin]

17 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Many a time I've limped onto a building site on a Monday morning.

 

No show, no wages

 

And Tuesday and Wednesday, tbf, but I'd say that it was more of a stagger than a limp.

 

 

8 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

Your point being?

 

He's hard as ****, and knew what side his bread was buttered on.

 

 

Edited January 17, 2023 by Dirk McTarkin

[Nucky Thompson]

2 minutes ago, Dirk McTarkin said:

 

And Tuesday and Wednesday, tbf, but I'd say that it was more of a stagger than a limp.

 

 

 

He's hard as ****, and knew what side his bread was buttered on.

 

 

I wondered if you would sniff this post out just as I hit submit reply 

[SectionDJambo]

I miss the reliability of the trains to Edinburgh and back from Newtongrange, and indeed to Gala.

I wish they would get this sorted.

[The Real Maroonblood]

11 hours ago, Shooter McGavin said:

And folk wonder why the countries on strike…

He’s an arsehole.

[Fxxx the SPFL]

11 hours ago, SectionDJambo said:

I miss the reliability of the trains to Edinburgh and back from Newtongrange, and indeed to Gala.

I wish they would get this sorted.

you must have been unlucky our kids/grandkids are in Tweedbank/Crailing and we've obviously been lucky never had a cancelled train so far apart from the obvious strike days

[SectionDJambo]

1 hour ago, **** the SPFL said:

you must have been unlucky our kids/grandkids are in Tweedbank/Crailing and we've obviously been lucky never had a cancelled train so far apart from the obvious strike days

I've never been let down but haven't made as many plans in advance because I'm not sure who is on strike in Scotland at the same time as England. I think its when the signal staff are on strike that it affects us up here.

Maybe I've talked myself out of travelling when I could have.

[Fxxx the SPFL]

2 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

I've never been let down but haven't made as many plans in advance because I'm not sure who is on strike in Scotland at the same time as England. I think its when the signal staff are on strike that it affects us up here.

Maybe I've talked myself out of travelling when I could have.

👍

[Cade]

Rail Minister admits that the strikes have cost more money in terms of disruption than it would have cost to just pay what the workers are asking for.

 

 So that's it proven. They're not interested in the financial arguments. It's 100% political, trying to act hard to get good headlines in the Mail, Express and Sun.

Edited January 18, 2023 by Cade

[John Findlay]

47 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

I've never been let down but haven't made as many plans in advance because I'm not sure who is on strike in Scotland at the same time as England. I think its when the signal staff are on strike that it affects us up here.

Maybe I've talked myself out of travelling when I could have.

Yes  you have talked yourself out of travelling when you could have.

[benny]

2 hours ago, SectionDJambo said:

I've never been let down but haven't made as many plans in advance because I'm not sure who is on strike in Scotland at the same time as England. I think its when the signal staff are on strike that it affects us up here.

Maybe I've talked myself out of travelling when I could have.

Use this.

https://m.nationalrail.co.uk/pj/ld

[SectionDJambo]

1 hour ago, benny said:

Use this.

https://m.nationalrail.co.uk/pj/ld

Thanks, I will.

[The Real Maroonblood]

4 hours ago, Cade said:

Rail Minister admits that the strikes have cost more money in terms of disruption than it would have cost to just pay what the workers are asking for.

 

 So that's it proven. They're not interested in the financial arguments. It's 100% political, trying to act hard to get good headlines in the Mail, Express and Sun.

They couldn’t run a bath.

[Japan Jambo]

20 hours ago, Cade said:

Rail Minister admits that the strikes have cost more money in terms of disruption than it would have cost to just pay what the workers are asking for.

 

 So that's it proven. They're not interested in the financial arguments. It's 100% political, trying to act hard to get good headlines in the Mail, Express and Sun.

 

Quite right Cade let's just give everyone what they ask for, it'll be right in keeping with the sense of entitlement we have cultivated as a society. 

 

[IronJambo]

28 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

Quite right Cade let's just give everyone what they ask for, it'll be right in keeping with the sense of entitlement we have cultivated as a society. 

 

I'm staring at this chart but I really can't work out what you're trying to put across. 

 

Edit: maybe you could update it. Change "2021" to "2023" and you get an extra two years out of it without any other changes needed.

Edited January 19, 2023 by IronJambo

[Japan Jambo]

1 minute ago, IronJambo said:

I'm staring at this chart but I really can't work out what you're trying to put across. 

 

It shows that in the round rail workers have done disproportionately well in comparison to folks in the wider economy. The unions have negotiated well on behalf of their members and routinely achieved ahead of inflation rises over the last ten years, fair play you may well argue. I'd ask though is a rail worker more worthy of a rise today than a teacher or a nurse? 

[Japan Jambo]

On 13/12/2022 at 20:24, IronJambo said:

It is yes, there's been no other offer since then.

 

Here's a link to RDG's public statement https://media.raildeliverygroup.com/news/employers-offer-rmt-a-framework-agreement-to-end-national-dispute-and-save-christmas

 

And here's a full copy and paste of what was sent out to RMT members with details of the Network Rail offer also. This is the same text as the email I've previously partially posted screenshots of but it does look slightly different as it was much simpler to rip it from WhatsApp:

 

Dear RMT Members

 

DEFEND JOBS, PAY AND CONDITIONS - TRAIN OPERATING COMPANIES & NETWORK RAIL

 

Offers have been tabled by both the Rail Delivery Group - which represents the 14 Train Operating Companies - and Network Rail over the weekend with the aim to resolve the ongoing and long-running national rail dispute. A summary of both sets of proposals are as follows:

 

TRAIN OPERATORS

A number of meetings have taken place between RMT and the Rail Delivery Group (RDG) in order to develop a proposal that we could put to our members as a potential way of resolving the current dispute.

 

This process has culminated with the RDG finally being given a mandate by the DfT, that was presented to RMT today (Sunday 4th December 2022). The proposals followed extensive discussions with the RDG including at Government Ministerial level. The mandate provided by the DfT is the basis of the RDG proposals.

 

These proposals set out a two-year pay package which provides 4% increases for years 2022 & 2023. These are way below the current and predicted future rates of inflation and equate to a 20% pay cut.

A conditional no compulsory redundancy commitment is set out, but only until 1st April 2024.

 

The proposals are also conditional on your union accepting the following:

1.         That all Workforce Changes are accepted without reservation or industrial action;

2.         Closure of all ticket offices and displacement of all retail staff;

3.         Creation of a new multi-skilled station grades;

4.         A mass job severance programme;

5.         Driver-Only Operation of trains in all companies and on all passenger services;

6.         New arrangements for mandatory Sunday working;

7.         A review of all On-Train Catering services leading to cutbacks in provision and jobs;

8.         Review of Fleet grades' working practices and depot driving;

9.         Flexible working contracts, working and rosters;

10.       Mandatory adoption of new technology with no payment;

11.       New Attendance Management scheme;

12.       Review of Stood Off arrangements;

13.       New annual leave and sick pay arrangements.

 

Your union's National Executive Committee is of the view that these proposals are not acceptable and believe that the RDG knew this was the case when they made the proposals. Therefore, your NEC has instructed me to immediately inform the RDG of this Union's rejection of the proposals and to demand an urgent meeting with the RDG tomorrow (Monday 5th December), with this matter to be placed back before this NEC immediately following that meeting.

 

NETWORK RAIL

Proposals

 

PAY 2022

·         A minimum uplift of a consolidated £1,750 or a 5% increase (whichever is greater) up to a maximum uplift of £3,500 to the annual base rates of pay effective from 01 January 2022

·         Back pay for annual base pay, shift, and overtime, will be paid on the first possible pay day following acceptance of this offer

Pay 2023

·         4% increase to the annual base rates of pay effective from 01 January 2023

No Compulsory Redundancy

·         No compulsory redundancies for general grades and bands 5-8 until 31 January 2025

·         Voluntary redundancy scheme to be opened to Section Planners and Section Admin before 31 March 2023

Privileged Staff Travel

·         Discretionary privileged leisure travel which provides a 75% discount on all leisure travel and includes family members.

Season ticket subsidy

·         The season ticket subsidy cap of £2,750 will be removed and a discount of 75% uncapped will be applied for the total cost of the season ticket

Colleagues on Role Clarity contracts:

·         The usual practice of using performance ratings to distribute pay increases will not be applied for 2022 or 2023

·         We will revise the top and bottom of the salary bands by the percentage increases offered

·         For colleagues who have reached the maximum of the revised salary band, salary increases will be made as a one-off, non-consolidated payment

Maintenance & Works Delivery (Construction Services) Standard Contract

·         For colleagues employed on a contract other than IMC 25 Carillion/GTRM: o One-off voluntary opt-in window (dates to be confirmed) for Operatives/Technicians/Team Leaders to transfer to the equivalent standard (IMC 25 GTRM/Carillion) contract

·         On promotion, current Operatives/Technicians to be offered choice of the standard (IMC 025 GTRM/Carillion) contract or next grade IMC contract applicable to them.

 

There are further conditions relating to our consultation with the members and the scheduled industrial action.

 

In summary, the Government has forced the RDG to make a proposal that everyone in the industry knows is not going to be acceptable. Your union is now demanding an urgent meeting tomorrow to address the issues.

 

The scheduled industrial action remains in place and the RMT National Executive Committee will consider both offers tomorrow afternoon following the meeting with RDG.

 

I will of course update you with any further developments.

Yours sincerely 

Mick Lynch

 

 

 

@IronJambo has there been any progress on any of this? From afar my perception is that both sides are firmly entrenched and that this will just drag on endlessly!! 

[Cade]

1 hour ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

Quite right Cade let's just give everyone what they ask for, it'll be right in keeping with the sense of entitlement we have cultivated as a society. 

 

 

Ooh look, some statistics with no context attached.

How original.

Well done you.

 

Train drivers are being asked to take on more and more work and more and more responsibility, especially as many operators are trying to get rid of train guards so the driver will have to do that job as well.

Mandatory overtime should not be how responsible companies operate.

The change in working conditions is not just pure greed by the profit focused bosses but is putting the public in danger.

I think that if you're being asked to do the job of multiple people, you should be well compensated for that.

"UK all-sector average" only shows that the UK is in a race to the bottom, with morons cheering that race on, as they believe that everybody should just accept real terms pay cuts and dreadful working conditions.

[The Real Maroonblood]

23 minutes ago, Cade said:

 

Ooh look, some statistics with no context attached.

How original.

Well done you.

 

Train drivers are being asked to take on more and more work and more and more responsibility, especially as many operators are trying to get rid of train guards so the driver will have to do that job as well.

Mandatory overtime should not be how responsible companies operate.

The change in working conditions is not just pure greed by the profit focused bosses but is putting the public in danger.

I think that if you're being asked to do the job of multiple people, you should be well compensated for that.

"UK all-sector average" only shows that the UK is in a race to the bottom, with morons cheering that race on, as they believe that everybody should just accept real terms pay cuts and dreadful working conditions.

Good post. 

 

[IronJambo]

2 hours ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

It shows that in the round rail workers have done disproportionately well in comparison to folks in the wider economy. The unions have negotiated well on behalf of their members and routinely achieved ahead of inflation rises over the last ten years, fair play you may well argue. I'd ask though is a rail worker more worthy of a rise today than a teacher or a nurse? 

Nonsense. It doesn't show anything real and the supposed figures don't represent myself or my colleagues. 

I'm not sure what percentage you think my wage has increased in the last ten years but I think you'd be shocked.

[Japan Jambo]

2 minutes ago, IronJambo said:

Nonsense. It doesn't show anything real and the supposed figures don't represent myself or my colleagues. 

I'm not sure what percentage you think my wage has increased in the last ten years but I think you'd be shocked.

 

No idea about your personal situation IJ - if you are happy to share it'd be good to get context. Various news outlets seem to be quoting industry averages of 36% vs 29% CPI (or thereabouts). Guessing though that doesn't reflect your experience given some of your comments over the piece. 

[IronJambo]

2 hours ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

@IronJambo has there been any progress on any of this? From afar my perception is that both sides are firmly entrenched and that this will just drag on endlessly!! 

I believe the government have stepped back and told the tocs they can negotiate so we may see a way forward given it was the government adding in terms that they knew couldn't be accepted.

[IronJambo]

14 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

No idea about your personal situation IJ - if you are happy to share it'd be good to get context. Various news outlets seem to be quoting industry averages of 36% vs 29% CPI (or thereabouts). Guessing though that doesn't reflect your experience given some of your comments over the piece. 

My wage has increased by 18.82% since November 2012. 

 

In comparison, the job I left in retail has increased by 47% in the same period. A job that used to pay a good few £k less but now pays a good few £k more.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

It’s an impossible argument this one.

 

in some respects, you’re going to support the strikes. In some respects, you’re going to look at the public sector and think they have it better than you.

 

Folk are entitled to fight for what they like but you always have to be careful not to be seen to complain about things which other people think are standard parts of working life. I do quite a bit of extra unpaid hours ever week. It sort of comes with the desk, even though it’s not formally agreed. Sometimes teachers speak as if they’re the only workers with long hours.

 

I’m less supportive of them than the railways tbh

[IronJambo]

2 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

It’s an impossible argument this one.

 

in some respects, you’re going to support the strikes. In some respects, you’re going to look at the public sector and think they have it better than you.

 

Folk are entitled to fight for what they like but you always have to be careful not to be seen to complain about things which other people think are standard parts of working life. I do quite a bit of extra unpaid hours ever week. It sort of comes with the desk, even though it’s not formally agreed. Sometimes teachers speak as if they’re the only workers with long hours.

 

I’m less supportive of them than the railways tbh

I'm with the teachers. We need top people in teaching jobs. We need them to be happy. We need better people than it currently attracts (no disrespect to any of the great teachers out there). 

 

We want our children to learn well from the best and that won't happen if the people teaching them are all pissed off and poor. 

[Cade]

If you don't like that the public sector pays more than the private sector, then unionise yourself and demand better treatment from your private sector bosses.

 

Don't scream and shout and stamp your feet and demand that public sector workers are given the same shite treatment and you've accepted for yourself.

 

[Nucky Thompson]

[Japan Jambo]

1 hour ago, IronJambo said:

My wage has increased by 18.82% since November 2012. 

 

In comparison, the job I left in retail has increased by 47% in the same period. A job that used to pay a good few £k less but now pays a good few £k more.

 

Are your T&C's not better where you are now though? Your job is pretty much guaranteed, you'll have a gold plated pension and you were looked after/under utilised during COVID if I recollect earlier comments you made correctly. If you'd been in retail chances are you would have run the risk of being let go... Is it worth making the switch back if it's so bad in rail?

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

1 hour ago, Cade said:

If you don't like that the public sector pays more than the private sector, then unionise yourself and demand better treatment from your private sector bosses.

 

Don't scream and shout and stamp your feet and demand that public sector workers are given the same shite treatment and you've accepted for yourself.

 

I get treated well by my company. I broadly support the strikes but when teachers say their hours are horrific, it’s all relative. What are we actually talking? How many a week on average?

 

Merely interested because my own hours are long so my sympathy on that front really depends on specifics 

[IronJambo]

3 hours ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

Are your T&C's not better where you are now though? Your job is pretty much guaranteed, you'll have a gold plated pension and you were looked after/under utilised during COVID if I recollect earlier comments you made correctly. If you'd been in retail chances are you would have run the risk of being let go... Is it worth making the switch back if it's so bad in rail?

I didn't say I wanted to go back to retail but no, my job would have been secure there. 

 

We weren't "looked after" during covid, we were at work and at risk running the service because it suited the government. We weren't at home on furlow earning for nothing. Covid cost me more than the strikes have done due to unpaid isolations. Let's be clear about this, the government have been shouting about how they kept the railway going and it cost them £x billions. They neglect to mention that we'd otherwise have been on furlow adding to the £70b or so they spent on that. 

 

My job is guaranteed but yet here I am for the second time in ten years fighting for it's very existence? How does that work?

 

My pension certainly isn't gold plated 😂 I'm not sure how much you think it will be but I can assure you that I'll be a poor pensioner.

 

Edit: none of the above was the point of my post. The point being I've averaged 1.8% per year in pay rises in the railway against the 4.7% per year my old job would have paid out over same period yet your supposed figures say the railways had inflation busting rises over the years. It's just not true.

Edited January 19, 2023 by IronJambo

[maroonlegions]

On 17/01/2023 at 21:52, Nucky Thompson said:

I've never been fortunate enough to get full sick pay at any job I've worked at.

Many a time I've limped onto a building site on a Monday morning after a Sunday league game.

Also turned up full of the cold many times.

No show, no wages

Well you should have joined a UNION then.  

 

Seems your work took the utter tom kite out of you and then gave you it dry.

Looks like you were ripped off. Should have got on your bike and found a new job, just like that Tory utterance once  from this corporate elect in power. 

 

 

Oh and back on topic.

 

 

[maroonlegions]

Malevolent reptiles and  a threat to every Uk   working class and middle  earner.

 

 

Complete lack of human empathy and morals.    Dangerous people.

 

 

[Shooter McGavin]

*Pretends to be shocked*

 

[maroondevo52]

Royal Mail strike scheduled for February 16th and 17th called off due to Royal Mail legal challenge.

[Nucky Thompson]

4 hours ago, maroondevo52 said:

Royal Mail strike scheduled for February 16th and 17th called off due to Royal Mail legal challenge.

I wouldn't have noticed anyway.

 

[Dazo]

4 hours ago, maroondevo52 said:

Royal Mail strike scheduled for February 16th and 17th called off due to Royal Mail legal challenge.

Shame I was looking for to no advertising leaflets that week. 

[ri Alban]

1 hour ago, Nucky Thompson said:

I wouldn't have noticed anyway.

 

Sure it wasn't the postie who put your sky on the blink.

[Nucky Thompson]

19 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Sure it wasn't the postie who put your sky on the blink.

My postie is actually a really nice, cheery lassie.

 

I've nothing against her, apart from seeing her wearing a Hibs hat the other week.

 

 

[ri Alban]

20 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

My postie is actually a really nice, cheery lassie.

 

I've nothing against her, apart from seeing her wearing a Hibs hat the other week.

 

 

[IronJambo]

For anyone planning a trip away on the train you'd maybe be best to avoid week begining Monday 13th March.

 

There's nothing been planned or announced but with Cheltenham festival on that week there's no better date on the horizon. The two Mick's need to be coordinating to kill the railway for that entire week.

[Nucky Thompson]

25 minutes ago, IronJambo said:

For anyone planning a trip away on the train you'd maybe be best to avoid week begining Monday 13th March.

 

There's nothing been planned or announced but with Cheltenham festival on that week there's no better date on the horizon. The two Mick's need to be coordinating to kill the railway for that entire week.

 Targeting the public is nasty as feck

 

Two 'Micks' sums it up for me. Twats