energy prices

[kila]

Chances of woodburners becoming more common? One way ticket to ****ing the planet with these capitalists running the show. 

[Gizmo]

1 minute ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

OFGEM are now pushing to change the Price CAP review period from every 6 months to every 3 months.

 

Which means we can expect to see a more immediate and frequent hike in energy bills once (not if), that happens.

 

Happy days!

Energy bills are high as it is with WFH and winter (ok, could argue offset by drop in commuting/lunch costs) etc. 53% will cripple some families - and to learn that its not the maximum increase is just disgusting.

[Tommy Brown]

13 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

Nope, your thinking is far from flawed. We're just looking at it from 2 different angles.  You're looking at it on a cost to the consumer point of view and I'm looking at it from a government generating tax receipts point of view.

 

I expect in the long run with rising leccy prices, electric cars won't be any cheaper to run and perhaps even dearer, though they'll certainly be kinder to the environment.

 

The government will have to find a way to replace the tax receipts lost  in the move towards electric vehicles and road pricing seems the most likely thing.

👍

[WorldChampions1902]

6 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

Energy bills are high as it is with WFH and winter (ok, could argue offset by drop in commuting/lunch costs) etc. 53% will cripple some families - and to learn that its not the maximum increase is just disgusting.

Working From Home, because your employer told you to do so (I’m one of them), allows everyone to claim tax relief for the extra costs associated with that burden. That is worth £65-£130 a year to you, depending on your tax profile. This Junta have just announced that this “tax loophole” must be closed, as it costs the Exchequer £500m a year.

 

That’s right, they want to stop you claiming a paltry amount of tax relief to mitigate your soaring energy costs, because your employer is forcing you, to work from home. Which I suppose is perfectly OK, given that we are writing off £4.2 billion  in loans made to non-existent companies during the pandemic, not to mention the £Billions paid to cowboy PPE manufacturers for duff equipment, owned by Tory Party friends and donors.

 

Sadly, the abolition of that tax relief coupled with the 10% hike in our National Insurance payments come April, barely scratches the surface of our Exchequers financial deficit. So we can expect more tax-raising wheezes for the working man in the near future. Watch this space.

 

“The Conservatives are the party of low taxation” - for big business and the fabulously wealthy.

[Cade]

24 minutes ago, kila said:

Chances of woodburners becoming more common? One way ticket to ****ing the planet with these capitalists running the show. 

 

Quite the opposite, they're being banned in a few years time due to health concerns (and the carbon footprint of wood burners is massive)

[The Real Maroonblood]

8 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

Working From Home, because your employer told you to do so (I’m one of them), allows everyone to claim tax relief for the extra costs associated with that burden. That is worth £65-£130 a year to you, depending on your tax profile. This Junta have just announced that this “tax loophole” must be closed, as it costs the Exchequer £500m a year.

 

That’s right, they want to stop you claiming a paltry amount of tax relief to mitigate your soaring energy costs, because your employer is forcing you, to work from home. Which I suppose is perfectly OK, given that we are writing off £4.2 billion  in loans made to non-existent companies during the pandemic, not to mention the £Billions paid to cowboy PPE manufacturers for duff equipment, owned by Tory Party friends and donors.

 

Sadly, the abolition of that tax relief coupled with the 10% hike in our National Insurance payments come April, barely scratches the surface of our Exchequers financial deficit. So we can expect more tax-raising wheezes for the working man in the near future. Watch this space.

 

“The Conservatives are the party of low taxation” - for big business and the fabulously wealthy.

Although depressing reading it is a good post.

[joondalupjambo]

13 minutes ago, Cade said:

 

Quite the opposite, they're being banned in a few years time due to health concerns (and the carbon footprint of wood burners is massive)

Are they?  I thought that there were moves afoot to ensure that ones being installed now meet specific environmental standards and also in future that you would only be allowed to burn a certain type of kiln dried wood provided by licensed suppliers?   I might be wrong.

 

The volume of people who have them, who vote for the SNP or the Tories must come into the politicians thinking, after all I bet most of the MSP and MP's have them in their second homes 😄

Edited February 6, 2022 by joondalupjambo

[kila]

23 minutes ago, Cade said:

 

Quite the opposite, they're being banned in a few years time due to health concerns (and the carbon footprint of wood burners is massive)

In a few years time, but until then it might become a reliance for many. 

[Cade]

Government should be spending big to offer incentives to cavity wall and loft insulation as well as more efficient boilers and electric goods.

Reduce the energy needs of the population and the nation as a whole.

But they won't.

 

"change supplier" is the bullshit mantra

"do star jumps" said one energy company CEO

EDF sending people pairs of socks in the post

 

They're ripping the pish out of all of us

[Pans Jambo]

[Psychedelicropcircle]

They reckon it’ll go up again 20% in October! A 6 month rise of 74%

[SwindonJambo]

17 minutes ago, Psychedelicropcircle said:

They reckon it’ll go up again 20% in October! A 6 month rise of 74%

I’m listening to the Stephen Nolan show on 5 live. Some industry analyst  is saying 25-30% more in October. Absolute madness. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

11 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

I’m listening to the Stephen Nolan show on 5 live. Some industry analyst  is saying 25-30% more in October. Absolute madness. 

That’s brutal.

[ri Alban]

5 hours ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

That’s brutal.

It's never the summer, when nae ***** needs it. *****!

Edited February 7, 2022 by ri Alban

[Japan Jambo]

Wonder if some brave soul will look at bringing up Cambo again? Gas is the bridge fuel on the road to 100% renewables/nuclear. It's a little mental that rather than use what we have already we instead import from half way across the world so that we can pat ourselves on the back for being greener than thou.

[Pans Jambo]

12 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

Wonder if some brave soul will look at bringing up Cambo again? Gas is the bridge fuel on the road to 100% renewables/nuclear. It's a little mental that rather than use what we have already we instead import from half way across the world so that we can pat ourselves on the back for being greener than thou.

Or we could tell them to ram it!

 

Become independent and utilise the renewables we have here already.

 

We already produce more than we consume in this country.

 

But someone will come along in a minute and tell me how this cannot happen.

[milky_26]

5 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Or we could tell them to ram it!

 

Become independent and utilise the renewables we have here already.

 

We already produce more than we consume in this country.

 

But someone will come along in a minute and tell me how this cannot happen.

out of curiosity how would renewables be able to supply the gas that people need for their gas boilers?

[Pans Jambo]

Just now, milky_26 said:

out of curiosity how would renewables be able to supply the gas that people need for their gas boilers?

That's just an arsey (& dumb) question. 

 

You think eclectic renewables can fire up a gas boiler?

 

Try harder!

 

I will have a go...Are we not phasing out gas boilers in the next decade or so???

[milky_26]

7 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

That's just an arsey (& dumb) question. 

 

You think eclectic renewables can fire up a gas boiler?

 

Try harder!

 

I will have a go...Are we not phasing out gas boilers in the next decade or so???

i was pointing out that gas is still used an renewables will not fix that

then you will need to increase the amount of electricity produced significantly. renewables will probably not cover that. That also does not include the increase that will be needed when more people move to electric cars.

 

the big issue is the lack of investment in nuclear power over the last 30 years. it is a carbon neutral power that has a guaranteed supply. it is also the reason why the french can have such a low energy price increase

14 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

 

[Pans Jambo]

Just now, milky_26 said:

i was pointing out that gas is still used an renewables will not fix that

then you will need to increase the amount of electricity produced significantly. renewables will probably not cover that. That also does not include the increase that will be needed when more people move to electric cars.

 

the big issue is the lack of investment in nuclear power over the last 30 years. it is a carbon neutral power that has a guaranteed supply. it is also the reason why the french can have such a low energy price increase

 

We haven't stopped investing in renewables. Its growing exponentially. Even locally, there's a new substation/transformer about to be built at the site of the old Cockenzie Power Station in East Lothian to allow the power generated from a new wind farm at the mouth of the Forth to be plugged into the national grid. This will generate 40 Gigawatts and will be the biggest in Scotland.

 

https://www.stantec.com/en/projects/united-kingdom-projects/f/firth-forth-wind-farm#:~:text=The wind farm is expected,UK's net zero emissions targets.

 

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/big-shed-substation-former-cockenzie-22342041

 

 

And so it goes on. We haven't stopped.

[milky_26]

3 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

We haven't stopped investing in renewables. Its growing exponentially. Even locally, there's a new substation/transformer about to be built at the site of the old Cockenzie Power Station in East Lothian to allow the power generated from a new wind farm at the mouth of the Forth to be plugged into the national grid. This will generate 40 Gigawatts and will be the biggest in Scotland.

 

https://www.stantec.com/en/projects/united-kingdom-projects/f/firth-forth-wind-farm#:~:text=The wind farm is expected,UK's net zero emissions targets.

 

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/big-shed-substation-former-cockenzie-22342041

 

 

And so it goes on. We haven't stopped.

currently there are around 2m households in scotland that use gas for heating and or cooking, estimates of power consumption is between 8000 and 17000 kWh per year. lets take the lower figure of 8000, that is 0.008GWh now multiply that by the current number of households 16,000 Gigawatt hours that would be needed to replace the amount of power generated from gas in household boilers. 

[Pans Jambo]

5 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

currently there are around 2m households in scotland that use gas for heating and or cooking, estimates of power consumption is between 8000 and 17000 kWh per year. lets take the lower figure of 8000, that is 0.008GWh now multiply that by the current number of households 16,000 Gigawatt hours that would be needed to replace the amount of power generated from gas in household boilers. 

Regardless, the gas boiler's days are numbered.

[Jambo_jim2001]

20 hours ago, Cade said:

 

Quite the opposite, they're being banned in a few years time due to health concerns (and the carbon footprint of wood burners is massive)

Not exactly true,I have  dual fuel heating system in my house which heats full house,replaced the old dual fuel system last year,which lasted 40 years.it is DEFRA approved and as long as you burn the correct legal approved fuel it is ok to use in smokeless areas.i fortunately live out in the sticks so can burn most solid fuels,85% of which cost nothing.my electric bills average out just now in the winter at £15 a week .I have a neighbour in same house type  with all electric green heating thermoflo system and pays over £150 a week,his house is never warm and suffers now from dampness due to house not getting the correct warmth,even after splashing out a fortune on insulation.new build houses in the near future are being banned from putting in gas central heating.

[Howdy Doody Jambo]

20 hours ago, kila said:

Chances of woodburners becoming more common? One way ticket to ****ing the planet with these capitalists running the show. 

There’s over a thousand coal powered stations in communist China and building more just saying probably tips the scales a wee bity 

Edited February 7, 2022 by The Maroon Pound

[Jambo_jim2001]

We as a nation could produce green energy no problem,my local laird gets paid on average £64 grand per year for the privilege of having two wind turbines on his land, therein lies the problem in scotland.most is privately owned by a privileged few.we have rivers ,lots off rain,massive tidal lochs that will guarantee our future in renewables.wind turbines are good when the wind is correct speed,they more off a visual statement look at us being green,whilst also paying the land owners a whack of cash.the technology is there to harness free tidal and hydro power but the select few who pull a great living out of old systems won't allow it.

[Pans Jambo]

For the past 2 years we have greatly reduced our petrol/diesel usage due to covid and people staying and working at home.

The advice now seems to be work at home if you can.

 

If you were BP, Shell, Exxon Mobil etc. and you took a massive hit to your profits what would you do??? Oh aye, the plebs can leave their cars in the driveway but they still need gas and leccy to power & heat their homes, but there's a price cap...lets speak to our pals in the tory party!

 

BOOM! Price cap lifted (twice) and the end user price rockets (due to wholesale which I believe is BP, Shell, Exxon Mobile etc anyway).

 

We've all been done up like a kipper.

 

What's the stock prices on these barstewards these days???

Edited February 7, 2022 by Pans Jambo

[Psychedelicropcircle]

Any jkb’ers using biomass boilers? Some cost comparison would be of interest.

[ri Alban]

6 hours ago, The Maroon Pound said:

There’s over a thousand coal powered stations in communist China and building more just saying probably tips the scales a wee bity 

China spend $1.3t on the environment per year. 

[Gizmo]

5 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

For the past 2 years we have greatly reduced our petrol/diesel usage due to covid and people staying and working at home.

The advice now seems to be work at home if you can.

 

If you were BP, Shell, Exxon Mobil etc. and you took a massive hit to your profits what would you do??? Oh aye, the plebs can leave their cars in the driveway but they still need gas and leccy to power & heat their homes, but there's a price cap...lets speak to our pals in the tory party!

 

BOOM! Price cap lifted (twice) and the end user price rockets (due to wholesale which I believe is BP, Shell, Exxon Mobile etc anyway).

 

We've all been done up like a kipper.

 

What's the stock prices on these barstewards these days???

£20 a share for Shell someone said earlier.

Profits: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/05/40bn-profits-for-bp-and-shell-fuel-calls-for-windfall-tax-on-energy-firms

[Pans Jambo]

1 hour ago, Gizmo said:

£20 a share for Shell someone said earlier.

Profits: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/05/40bn-profits-for-bp-and-shell-fuel-calls-for-windfall-tax-on-energy-firms

Not against profit but to raise prices when you have made that much is just disgusting. 

[Space Mackerel]

Amazing. 

[Jeff]

BP announce profits of 9.5 billion

[Malinga the Swinga]

2 hours ago, Steak said:

BP announce profits of 9.5 billion

They'll need to increase their prices as that won't keep roof over heads. How is anyone supposed to survive on a paltry £9.5b.

[The Mighty Thor]

3 hours ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

They'll need to increase their prices as that won't keep roof over heads. How is anyone supposed to survive on a paltry £9.5b.

over $4 billion of that was in the last quarter alone.

 

Since then prices have rocketed further and they're on the verge of the price cap adjusted by 50%

[Francis Albert]

6 hours ago, Steak said:

BP announce profits of 9.5 billion

I believe they lost about £5bn last year. The oil companies do what they do - maximise returns over time to shareholders. A windfall tax would be welcome but I am not sure how much of BP's profits are generated in the UK (not that much I suspect - BP is no longer British Petroleum just an international outfit called BP).

The fault here lies more I think with 40 years of liberalisation and faith in the "free market" by governments of all persuasions. The energy market has never been free and never will be. Successive governments (and OFGEM's) blind faith in the free market has been consistent despite the fact that most players in the market do not operate in free markets. 

When I was first involved in the business gas and electricity prices were in effect set by the nationalised energy suppliers. British Gas was a monopsony (monopoly buyer) and set the wholesale price -  paying enough to ensure the development of the North sea and making it just more attractive than the producers' alternatives. Thatcher and Blair and their successors destroyed that structure.

[Pans Jambo]

State sponsored fuel poverty right enough. Disgusting.

 

https://www.channel4.com/news/huge-profits-but-oil-giant-admits-to-paying-zero-tax-in-north-sea

 

[Gizmo]

14 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

State sponsored fuel poverty right enough. Disgusting.

 

https://www.channel4.com/news/huge-profits-but-oil-giant-admits-to-paying-zero-tax-in-north-sea

 

Thread from Alex Thompson on Twitter as well re the above:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1490988461226340354.html

[Pans Jambo]

2 hours ago, Gizmo said:

Thread from Alex Thompson on Twitter as well re the above:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1490988461226340354.html

The UK was the only country in the world where Shell didnt pay any tax (where it operates). 
 

Would love one of the tory fan bois on here to have a crack at defending that one!!!

[Cade]

"aye but sheel need tae make profits tae invest in renewables likes"

[John Gentleman]

On 07/02/2022 at 21:00, Pans Jambo said:

Regardless, the gas boiler's days are numbered.

You're right enough, and heat pump technology is the most obvious alternative. My whole house is pretty much powered by my solar system and heat pump devices (fridge, freezer, reverse cycle ducted air conditioning, clothes dryer (rarely used). My only concession to fossil fuels is a continuous flow (aka, 'instantaneous') gas hot water system. It only costs my 1-person household around £30 a quarter.

That's fine here in Australia, but how do you go about retrofitting the world's oldest housing stock (UK) with heat pump technologies? I'm thinking of all these terraced houses, two-ups, flats and multi-storey dwellings with solid walls and super-tight spaces. Sounds like an absolute nightmare in the making....

[SectionDJambo]

Some tit just said, on Robert Peston’s programme, that the money being loaned to the energy companies, which I believe the public are being asked to repay individually, isn’t a loan.

Apparently it’s “a smoothing rebate”.

My goodness.

[John Gentleman]

23 minutes ago, John Gentleman said:

You're right enough, and heat pump technology is the most obvious alternative. My whole house is pretty much powered by my solar system and heat pump devices (fridge, freezer, reverse cycle ducted air conditioning, clothes dryer (rarely used). My only concession to fossil fuels is a continuous flow (aka, 'instantaneous') gas hot water system. It only costs my 1-person household around £30 a quarter.

That's fine here in Australia, but how do you go about retrofitting the world's oldest housing stock (UK) with heat pump technologies? I'm thinking of all these terraced houses, two-ups, flats and multi-storey dwellings with solid walls and super-tight spaces. Sounds like an absolute nightmare in the making....

.......some interesting work going on here though:
https://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/gas-boilers-banned-2025

[The Real Maroonblood]

8 hours ago, John Gentleman said:

.......some interesting work going on here though:
https://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/gas-boilers-banned-2025

👍

[Jambo-Jimbo]

I'm just putting the questions out there, should we suspend our green targets until the oil/gas markets stabilise.

Fracking do we need to revisit this in light of the wholesale gas price, also new oil/gas fields in the North Sea should we open new fields.

 

My own personal view is that there is no easy solution, no matter what you do it'll upset somebody.

One thing that does strike me as crazy is, that we import fracked LNG gas from America, yet the UK has massive reserves of it ourselves.

Seems to me that we are quite happy to use fracked gas, just as long as it's come from somewhere else and not the UK, out of sight out of mind type of thing.

[Cade]

Shale gas is also finite, and difficult to get.

What's the plan when that runs out?

 

Just go all-in on renewables. 

We're going to have to do it sooner or later, so why not do it now and become an exporter of the technology as well as making all our own power at home instead of having to rely on unreliable imports from dodgy places?

It makes sense from an economic, environmental and national strategic viewpoint.

So just feckin get on with it.

Edited February 13, 2022 by Cade

[Der Kaiser]

My yearly estimates

 

Currently....

 

Electricity   £638

Gas.            £623

 

Prediction after March on best tariff

 

Electricity.  £1063

Gas.            £1257

 

**** me sideways. 

 

 

[Francis Albert]

9 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

I'm just putting the questions out there, should we suspend our green targets until the oil/gas markets stabilise.

Fracking do we need to revisit this in light of the wholesale gas price, also new oil/gas fields in the North Sea should we open new fields.

 

My own personal view is that there is no easy solution, no matter what you do it'll upset somebody.

One thing that does strike me as crazy is, that we import fracked LNG gas from America, yet the UK has massive reserves of it ourselves.

Seems to me that we are quite happy to use fracked gas, just as long as it's come from somewhere else and not the UK, out of sight out of mind type of thing.

The idea that we should go "net zero" and nuclear free while still importing energy produced from fossil fuels and nuclear is plain crazy. But if Greta says so ...

[Cade]

[Jambo_jim2001]

48 minutes ago, Cade said:

I'd get that banked,then go to ATM,and leave slip in tray so next nosey person can look at it,,or maybe withdraw 300 quid

[Cade]

Seems that North Power had mistakenly entered the customer's meter number in the "amount to be paid" box.

 

 

There's hundreds of cheques for trillions of pounds out there in the wild.