Neilson ( merged )

[Weakened Offender]

14 hours ago, JimmyCant said:

Hibs winning the cup would be absolutely gut wrenching. The new Dens Park.

 

Seriously needs questioning why any Hearts supporter is posting utter rubbish like this. 

 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

7 hours ago, GinRummy said:

We won’t be losing to Hibs this season. 

 

If they make the top six, we might lose the post-split fixture as it will be meaningless for us and we will likely have a cup final to prepare for.

[JimmyCant]

9 hours ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

Seriously needs questioning why any Hearts supporter is posting utter rubbish like this. 

 

Another one who will just shrug his shoulders if Hibs win the cup and help themselves to the £5million plus

[Boab]

27 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Another one who will just shrug his shoulders if Hibs win the cup and help themselves to the £5million plus

As unlikely as it is, yes, it would be a pisser, Jimmy, but nothing like Dens. 

Absolutely not !

[JimmyCant]

18 minutes ago, Boab said:

As unlikely as it is, yes, it would be a pisser, Jimmy, but nothing like Dens. 

Absolutely not !

Aye fair enough. I’m in the ‘it’s never happening’ boat anyway so it’s not an angst I feel we’ll have to measure against anything else 

[Nookie Bear]

46 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Another one who will just shrug his shoulders if Hibs win the cup and help themselves to the £5million plus

 

Nobody will be shrugging their shoulders because that is a nightmare scenario however some here seem to want to link Neilson's position as manager with the success of hibs.

 

It seems that Neilson will be allowed (?) to stay if he loses the semi but should be sacked if hibs go on to win the thing. It doesn't make sense.

 

I would rather we see this as an opportunity to get to another final and have a go rather than turning it into a situation where Neilson is having to reapply for his job, which was the immediate reaction of many on here.

[JimmyCant]

13 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Nobody will be shrugging their shoulders because that is a nightmare scenario however some here seem to want to link Neilson's position as manager with the success of hibs.

 

It seems that Neilson will be allowed (?) to stay if he loses the semi but should be sacked if hibs go on to win the thing. It doesn't make sense.

 

I would rather we see this as an opportunity to get to another final and have a go rather than turning it into a situation where Neilson is having to reapply for his job, which was the immediate reaction of many on here.

Does it really matter what folks opinions are on Neilson’s achievements for the rest of the season ? He’s got 3rd in the bag and he’s in the last four of the cup. Target more than achieved. Job more than done.

 

Some folk will NEVER accept him.

Hes got some of the worst results in our history attached to his name and his derby record isn’t good.

 

Could he lose the semi ? Yes of course he could. Could Hibs then go on to win the cup ? Yes, unlikely but they could. Would that be Neilson’s fault ? Not in any way shape or form. Will he get slaughtered for it ? He was slaughtered last time it happened. I’ve no doubt he’d be slaughtered if it happened again.

 

Will he be sacked or moved on or managed out because Hibs won the cup again when we could have put them out.  No not a chance. Everything else is just noise.

Edited March 17, 2022 by JimmyCant

[Boab]

15 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Aye fair enough. I’m in the ‘it’s never happening’ boat anyway so it’s not an angst I feel we’ll have to measure against anything else 

👍

 

[Byyy The Light]

27 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Does it really matter what folks opinions are on Neilson’s achievements for the rest of the season ? He’s got 3rd in the bag and he’s in the last four of the cup. Target more than achieved. Job more than done.

 

Some folk will NEVER accept him.

Hes got some of the worst results in our history attached to his name and his derby record isn’t good.

 

Could he lose the semi ? Yes of course he could. Could Hibs then go on to win the cup ? Yes, unlikely but they could. Would that be Neilson’s fault ? Not in any way shape or form. Will he get slaughtered for it ? He was slaughtered last time it happened. I’ve no doubt he’d be slaughtered if it happened again.

 

Will he be sacked or moved on or managed out because Hibs won the cup again when we could have put them out.  No not a chance. Everything else is just noise.

Pretty much sums it up Jimmy

[Nookie Bear]

56 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Does it really matter what folks opinions are on Neilson’s achievements for the rest of the season ? He’s got 3rd in the bag and he’s in the last four of the cup. Target more than achieved. Job more than done.

 

Some folk will NEVER accept him.

Hes got some of the worst results in our history attached to his name and his derby record isn’t good.

 

Could he lose the semi ? Yes of course he could. Could Hibs then go on to win the cup ? Yes, unlikely but they could. Would that be Neilson’s fault ? Not in any way shape or form. Will he get slaughtered for it ? He was slaughtered last time it happened. I’ve no doubt he’d be slaughtered if it happened again.

 

Will he be sacked or moved on or managed out because Hibs won the cup again when we could have put them out.  No not a chance. Everything else is just noise.

 

Okay, to be honest i struggle to understand if you are speaking on behalf of those fans who will never accept him and will slaughter him if we lose or if that actually is your opinion.

 

Because if we lose, he will get slaughtered. Quite rightly. But i don't think it will affect his long term position in the eyes of the Board as he has too much credit in the bank for his position to be under threat right now.

 

Next challenge would be Europe and that will be a good test of whether he can take us forward.

 

 

[EH11 2NL]

18 hours ago, McCrae said:

RN will be toast if we lose to H1b5 in the semi.  He has had some horrific results whilst managing us and to be the first manager to lose to H1b5 at Hampden would finish him. This is one of the most important games in our history and only a win will do.

That's a fair enough opinion. But let's look at the alternative. What happens if he becomes the first Hearts manager to beat them at Hampden twice? And the second man, along with Gordon, to be involved in us beating them three times at Hampden? Will he get the credit due? 

[Boab]

34 minutes ago, EH11 2NL said:

That's a fair enough opinion. But let's look at the alternative. What happens if he becomes the first Hearts manager to beat them at Hampden twice? And the second man, along with Gordon, to be involved in us beating them three times at Hampden? Will he get the credit due? 

😂

” his euro record is crap, not the man to take us forward ! “

Or some such shite !

Just wait and see.

[JimmyCant]

2 hours ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Okay, to be honest i struggle to understand if you are speaking on behalf of those fans who will never accept him and will slaughter him if we lose or if that actually is your opinion.

 

Because if we lose, he will get slaughtered. Quite rightly. But i don't think it will affect his long term position in the eyes of the Board as he has too much credit in the bank for his position to be under threat right now.

 

Next challenge would be Europe and that will be a good test of whether he can take us forward.

 

 

I only speak on behalf of me. If he loses the semi, which I don’t think he will, you then look at what caused the defeat. If he’s to blame in folks eyes he’ll get slaughtered.

 

But Hibs going on to win the cup, that’s highly unlikely IMO but although it’s an utter disaster for us financially and a huge benefit to them, its not his fault if it happens. However some folk (not me) will also slaughter him for that purely because he’s not well liked by an element and the huge game changing prize we’ve missed out on

 

I think he’s been great this season overall with a few blips and previously I didn’t want him to get the job, or keep the job. Irrespective of the cup outcome he’s done enough already this season to get at least another season IMO.

Edited March 17, 2022 by JimmyCant

[soonbe110]

19 hours ago, GinRummy said:

He’ll be seeing out his contract at least imo. If the board were getting rid of him he’d be gone before the  start of the season after some tedious displays against shite and one of the worst results in our history. 

He will get a new contract as soon as third is certain. Maybe sooner. 

[soonbe110]

18 hours ago, upgotheheads said:

 

 

Good grief! What a load of P15h

Indeed. 

[soonbe110]

4 hours ago, JimmyCant said:

Another one who will just shrug his shoulders if Hibs win the cup and help themselves to the £5million plus

So, just because Hibs win the cup we should sack the manager who won the championship then third place in first season back in top league. Logic?

[JimmyCant]

9 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

He will get a new contract as soon as third is certain. Maybe sooner. 

Assuming he wants one and agrees terms of course. And maybe he’ll be in a stronger negotiating position if he’s got the cup and/or £5million on his desk 

Edited March 17, 2022 by JimmyCant

[JimmyCant]

4 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

So, just because Hibs win the cup we should sack the manager who won the championship then third place in first season back in top league. Logic?

Nowhere have I said we should sack him. We won’t and we shouldn’t just to be clear, but this is the biggest game accross both his tenures by a distance and there will be a full range of emotions should we not win it including some who’ll want him sacked (again not me to be clear)

Edited March 17, 2022 by JimmyCant

[soonbe110]

3 hours ago, JimmyCant said:

Does it really matter what folks opinions are on Neilson’s achievements for the rest of the season ? He’s got 3rd in the bag and he’s in the last four of the cup. Target more than achieved. Job more than done.

 

Some folk will NEVER accept him.

Hes got some of the worst results in our history attached to his name and his derby record isn’t good.

 

Could he lose the semi ? Yes of course he could. Could Hibs then go on to win the cup ? Yes, unlikely but they could. Would that be Neilson’s fault ? Not in any way shape or form. Will he get slaughtered for it ? He was slaughtered last time it happened. I’ve no doubt he’d be slaughtered if it happened again.

 

Will he be sacked or moved on or managed out because Hibs won the cup again when we could have put them out.  No not a chance. Everything else is just noise.

He also has the best, or second best, win % ratio in our history, has won two championships and has never finished lower than third as our manager. No manager in our history has managed that. At least none that have been around for more than one season. Some folk just can’t see the big picture, they only see through the small peephole that says we must beat Hibs every time we play them and nothing else matters. Sad really. 

[soonbe110]

4 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Assuming he wants one and agrees terms of course. 

He isn’t fir walking away. Budge said last week that management team are really enjoying their jobs. 

[soonbe110]

3 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Nowhere have I said we should sack him. We won’t and we shouldn’t just to be clear 

Appreciate that but you are correct in suggesting that many will. 

[Haken]

On one hand, you see a lot of stuff on here about Hibs being an irrelevance, nothing more than an item of amusement that happens to be our derby rival; on he other, Hibs are afforded the importance of determining the future of our manager.  Much of it comes from the same folk.

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, EH11 2NL said:

That's a fair enough opinion. But let's look at the alternative. What happens if he becomes the first Hearts manager to beat them at Hampden twice? And the second man, along with Gordon, to be involved in us beating them three times at Hampden? Will he get the credit due? 

He should do. Can’t wait to give him credit for it. 

[jr ewing]

22 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Appreciate that but you are correct in suggesting that many will. 

1 year rolling contract is the better option  

[JimmyCant]

19 minutes ago, jr ewing said:

1 year rolling contract is the better option  

Wins the cup and he can write his own contract

[Pasquale for King]

25 minutes ago, Haken said:

On one hand, you see a lot of stuff on here about Hibs being an irrelevance, nothing more than an item of amusement that happens to be our derby rival; on he other, Hibs are afforded the importance of determining the future of our manager.  Much of it comes from the same folk.

Hibs aren’t important in the grand scheme of things, but results against them are, they should be kept in their place and any manager with an average record against them will be criticised. 

[OTT]

9 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Wins the cup and he can write his own contract

 

Pretty much  

[jr ewing]

25 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Wins the cup and he can write his own contract

JJ did and he didn't. 

[Sub4TiddlerMurray]

4 hours ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Next challenge would be Europe and that will be a good test of whether he can take us forward.

 

 

 

At what point do the haters accept that he has already taken us much further forward than any fan could have realistically expected before the season started?

 

Taking us forward in Europe has evaded the majority of previous managers. But for RN he has to be judged by a much higher bar. What a load of 

 

[Nookie Bear]

3 minutes ago, Sub4TiddlerMurray said:

 

At what point do the haters accept that he has already taken us much further forward than any fan could have realistically expected before the season started?

 

Taking us forward in Europe has evaded the majority of previous managers. But for RN he has to be judged by a much higher bar. What a load of 

 

Yep. 
I suppose the bigger challenge is balancing domestic and European games so it is as much a test of Savage’s recruitment than Neilsons management. 
 

And yes, he has performed much better than expected but that is the standard we need to maintain. 

[Sub4TiddlerMurray]

33 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

Yep. 
I suppose the bigger challenge is balancing domestic and European games so it is as much a test of Savage’s recruitment than Neilsons management. 
 

And yes, he has performed much better than expected but that is the standard we need to maintain. 

 

Exactly! 👍

[Guest ToqueJambo]

2 hours ago, Sub4TiddlerMurray said:

 

At what point do the haters accept that he has already taken us much further forward than any fan could have realistically expected before the season started?

 

Taking us forward in Europe has evaded the majority of previous managers. But for RN he has to be judged by a much higher bar. What a load of 

 

 

The thing is Neilson took us much further forward than any fan could have reasonably expected before 14/15 started as well, and even the following season 3rd was a good achievement for a newly promoted club out of admin with a rookie manager. Yet it meant nothing to people who seem to have had it in for him almost from his first defeat.

[The Grim Reaper]

15 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

The thing is Neilson took us much further forward than any fan could have reasonably expected before 14/15 started as well, and even the following season 3rd was a good achievement for a newly promoted club out of admin with a rookie manager. Yet it meant nothing to people who seem to have had it in for him almost from his first defeat.

There’s no truth in that . You’re trolling. 

Edited March 17, 2022 by The Grim Reaper

[Sooks]

26 minutes ago, The Grim Reaper said:

There’s no truth in that . You’re trolling. 

Yes there is 

[Gizmo]

5 hours ago, EH11 2NL said:

That's a fair enough opinion. But let's look at the alternative. What happens if he becomes the first Hearts manager to beat them at Hampden twice? And the second man, along with Gordon, to be involved in us beating them three times at Hampden? Will he get the credit due? 

Nah, it will be considered the minimum we are entitled to - and folk will just wait for the next result deemed "not good enough". 

It's like the opposition don't exist and have zero influence on the game or outcome. Ever.  

[Watt-Zeefuik]

31 minutes ago, The Grim Reaper said:

There’s no truth in that . You’re trolling. 

We were sitting third in the table when those manbabies flew their plane.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 hour ago, The Grim Reaper said:

There’s no truth in that . You’re trolling. 

 

First BAD defeat then? All Hearts managers have 'em. None get it in the neck as relentlessly as Neilson has, basically willing the guy to fail.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

53 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

We were sitting third in the table when those manbabies flew their plane.

 

And clear and easy top of the league plus having just beaten Hibs in the cup semi final when the first Robbie Oot thread appeared last season. 

[Rudy T]

I don’t envy Robbie going into this semi final, last time we played them at Hampden all the pressure was on them, realistically no one could’ve criticised him or the team had we lost the fact we won was actually quite remarkable. This time it’s completely reversed, Hearts are favourites, he’s still carrying the burden of Brora and to some extent the whole money spinning replay game, which some still won’t forgive. 
 

Aside from that he’s got to pick a team and formation to breakdown Hibs, it’s clear to date what Maloney is capable of is selecting a team and formation to nullify the opposition, he’s done this by matching up to the opponent. So does Robbie stick with our current set up and trust we have enough or does he change it to try and catch out Maloney by dragging them out so we can get at them? If he sticks and we lose then he gets slaughtered but if he changes and loses he’ll be absolutely smashed for it even if realistically that might be the best way to go.

 

The league game will be interesting to see how each team shapes up and who plays, does Robbie go with his first choice team and formation or does he mess about to get into Maloneys head? They will likely need at least a point in that game so do we save ourselves for Hampden or just go for it.

 

As I say I don’t envy the task ahead.

 

 

[jr ewing]

32 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

First BAD defeat then? All Hearts managers have 'em. None get it in the neck as relentlessly as Neilson has, basically willing the guy to fail.

Better players this time round. 

[Vlad Magic]

5 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

I don’t envy Robbie going into this semi final, last time we played them at Hampden all the pressure was on them, realistically no one could’ve criticised him or the team had we lost the fact we won was actually quite remarkable. This time it’s completely reversed, Hearts are favourites, he’s still carrying the burden of Brora and to some extent the whole money spinning replay game, which some still won’t forgive. 
 

Aside from that he’s got to pick a team and formation to breakdown Hibs, it’s clear to date what Maloney is capable of is selecting a team and formation to nullify the opposition, he’s done this by matching up to the opponent. So does Robbie stick with our current set up and trust we have enough or does he change it to try and catch out Maloney by dragging them out so we can get at them? If he sticks and we lose then he gets slaughtered but if he changes and loses he’ll be absolutely smashed for it even if realistically that might be the best way to go.

 

The league game will be interesting to see how each team shapes up and who plays, does Robbie go with his first choice team and formation or does he mess about to get into Maloneys head? They will likely need at least a point in that game so do we save ourselves for Hampden or just go for it.

 

As I say I don’t envy the task ahead.

 

 

I would be very surprised if Robbie did anything other than play his strongest 11 in the league game.

 

In fact I would go as far as to say I would be gobsmacked if he didn’t.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

44 minutes ago, Vlad Magic said:

I would be very surprised if Robbie did anything other than play his strongest 11 in the league game.

 

In fact I would go as far as to say I would be gobsmacked if he didn’t.

 

The good thing is we have a few "strongest 11s" depending on the formation, opponent and type of game. There's not a single weak link in our squad. Pick 5 random Hearts fans just now and you'd probably get 5 different strongest 11s. I wouldn't be surprised if one or two key players from Halkett, Simms, McKay, Beni and Kingsley get rotated out for the league game. Hibs will see the cup game as bigger than the league game too mind you. They could also rest players and/or try to knobble a couple of ours. Cynically taking out Djoum in 2016 just after half-time, after he lorded it over them in the first half, basically got them back into that tie after all.

[Sub4TiddlerMurray]

6 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

The thing is Neilson took us much further forward than any fan could have reasonably expected before 14/15 started as well, and even the following season 3rd was a good achievement for a newly promoted club out of admin with a rookie manager. Yet it meant nothing to people who seem to have had it in for him almost from his first defeat.

 

100% 👍

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

7 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

The thing is Neilson took us much further forward than any fan could have reasonably expected before 14/15 started as well, and even the following season 3rd was a good achievement for a newly promoted club out of admin with a rookie manager. Yet it meant nothing to people who seem to have had it in for him almost from his first defeat.

 

i expected that we would compete very closely if not beat rangers if they performed (we were only relegated due to the 15 point deduction and had significantly improved the team / squad)

 

by any measure rangers significantly underperformed so I expected to win the league - our points total was impressive but incidental

 

the following season I expected to finish above st Johnstone and ross county and reckon we were actually better than Aberdeen so could have finished second

 

so no he didn’t take us further than I expected

 

he didn’t underperform either which plenty do so that’s not to be ignored

 

he is again performing to my expectations and not underperforming the latter again not to be ignored

 

unfortunately early on he announced we were going to change the way we approach derby matches - why you would do that at a team who possibly has one of the best derby records in world football is a bit strange - guessing he wanted to out-think them rather than out-fight them

 

upshot being he gifted them their holy-grail (the equivalent of us with loftier hopes of winning the league) and then brushed it off afterwards 

 

he’ll never win back a section of the support after that (unless he wins the league) (maybe some might forgive him on the back of something extra ordinary in Europe)

 

if he keeps not-underperforming as he is now that will be enough to keep enough fans and the board onside until Swindon town come calling for him to jump ship to restart his journey to the epl            

 

 

 

 

[JimmyCant]

4 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

The good thing is we have a few "strongest 11s" depending on the formation, opponent and type of game. There's not a single weak link in our squad. Pick 5 random Hearts fans just now and you'd probably get 5 different strongest 11s. I wouldn't be surprised if one or two key players from Halkett, Simms, McKay, Beni and Kingsley get rotated out for the league game. Hibs will see the cup game as bigger than the league game too mind you. They could also rest players and/or try to knobble a couple of ours. Cynically taking out Djoum in 2016 just after half-time, after he lorded it over them in the first half, basically got them back into that tie after all.

Hate to be pedantic but you can’t have more than 1 “strongest 11” the definition of the word tells you that.

 

That said, the last thing we want to be doing here is handing Hibs a morale boosting win by playing a weakened team at Tynecastle the week before the semi when what we should be doing is laying down a marker and putting all the problems in their camp to work on.

 

By all means if we put it to bed quick enough, take the key players off, without letting them back in to the game of course but to me, anything other than the strongest (and fittest)11 available and a right good determined go at beating them well, isn’t really acceptable. Anyone with a niggle shouldnt start but that’s the only pre-caution I want to see.

[Skacelsid]

We must take care of league business first, get into a winning position in the Derby game and use all subs would be the best scenario. Both clubs are liable to have injuries before Hampden, that is football. What good would fielding a "second" eleven and potentially losing do. Having a strong squad means that we do not really know the first choice eleven anyway, and we all have different opinions. As they say one game at a time, and we have a difficult enough game on Saturday, that is all players and staff will be focusing on, keep the winning habit.

[Sooks]

11 minutes ago, Skacelsid said:

We must take care of league business first, get into a winning position in the Derby game and use all subs would be the best scenario. Both clubs are liable to have injuries before Hampden, that is football. What good would fielding a "second" eleven and potentially losing do. Having a strong squad means that we do not really know the first choice eleven anyway, and we all have different opinions. As they say one game at a time, and we have a difficult enough game on Saturday, that is all players and staff will be focusing on, keep the winning habit.

Thinking about this you are probably right and it is almost certainly what we will do but it would make sense to use our five subs to protect guys like Kingsley Halkett and Boyce when the job is done in some games

[Sooks]

3 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Thinking about this you are probably right and it is almost certainly what we will do but it would make sense to use our five subs to protect guys like Kingsley Halkett and Boyce when the job is done in some games

and Baningime

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

21 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

He will get a new contract as soon as third is certain. Maybe sooner. 

Folk might mock but we can’t be complacent with Robbie. I’d imagine most Hearts fans will be of the view that no other club would be interested in Robbie. 
 

That simply can’t be true.

 

For the type of team, squad building and progress we want management stability is even more important than squad stability.

 

I’d imagine Robbie arrived to a fairly modest contract value given the circumstances when he arrived. 
 

In a few more games if not already he’ll have earned a new deal IMO.

[OTT]

Thinking squad rotation as we close in on the semi is key here. Get Moore and Sibbick into the mix. Woodburn and McEneff can play a bit more too - Actually think McEneff could start the semi if he takes his chances. Give McKay a wee rest etc. 

 

I don't want to be in the position where we're kicking ourselves because XYZ is injured.