Russia Invades Ukraine

[Ulysses]

1 hour ago, JimmyCant said:

Youre right. This is nothing more than a war game scenario that’s been leaked. Zero chance of jt happening unless Russia have a ten year rebuild AND get support and supplies from China, Iran and North Korea

 

And even then...

 

...the Chinese are not stupid, and the Iranians have other fish to fry.

 

As for an all-out attack on NATO, the Russians would be more likely to win a war by hitting each other really hard with shovels.

[henrysmithsgloves]

Utility services in Russia breaking down 😁

 

[Cade]

Russian bloggers and media can't decide what their story is about those two command & control planes that got hit.

Some claim it was friendly fire with the Russian air defence being so shite-hot that it can take down anything.

Others are claiming that it was British SAS forces launching missiles from rubber dinghies. 

Both of which are laughable. 

 

More reliable reports say that a Russian Su-34 was also targeted but managed to break missile lock with its flares and skedaddled right out of the area. 

The older AWACs, the Il-22 managed to land at a Russian airbase with heavy damage and will need significant repairs.
The more modern A-50 is now a submarine.

 

Ukraine are being very quiet about what actually hit the planes.

[heartgarfunkel]

I'm a bit over cautious when it comes to underestimating the Russians.  Yes, many factors are very different from them doing for Napoleon and Hitler, but you just don't underestimate the bear.  My late neighbour who was a POW in Hawick and married a local lass and never went home (he hated the Nazis of course😉) was on the outskirts of Moscow in late 1941, when the Red Army had been rolled and smashed to smithereens.  Three and a half years later they're on the Reichstag and have killed between 76 and 83 out of every 100 WW2 German military fatalities. Think the Yugoslav partisans were next in line in effectiveness before us and the Yanks.  Their ability to absorb huge damage and suffering with a total twat in charge and come out swinging is terrifying.  Any money spent presenting a united front to this bully and having the poor Ukrainians doing all the swedging is ****all compared to the cost of being perceived to back down to that *****.  Europe needs to up its game to **** in case Trump gets back in.

[Debut 4]

32 minutes ago, heartgarfunkel said:

I'm a bit over cautious when it comes to underestimating the Russians.  Yes, many factors are very different from them doing for Napoleon and Hitler, but you just don't underestimate the bear.  My late neighbour who was a POW in Hawick and married a local lass and never went home (he hated the Nazis of course😉) was on the outskirts of Moscow in late 1941, when the Red Army had been rolled and smashed to smithereens.  Three and a half years later they're on the Reichstag and have killed between 76 and 83 out of every 100 WW2 German military fatalities. Think the Yugoslav partisans were next in line in effectiveness before us and the Yanks.  Their ability to absorb huge damage and suffering with a total twat in charge and come out swinging is terrifying.  Any money spent presenting a united front to this bully and having the poor Ukrainians doing all the swedging is ****all compared to the cost of being perceived to back down to that *****.  Europe needs to up its game to **** in case Trump gets back in.

It’s been discussed before but the Soviets benefited from Lend Lease in WW2 as did ourselves, from the USA.  Not doubting their fighting spirit and relentless nature, but along with their own production , Lend Lease tipped the balance. 

I’ve read many many books and articles and the Germans just couldn’t believe the amount of armoury that just kept coming and coming when the Soviets started their counter attack after Stalingrad and there on.  It was overwhelming and it was noted that the Germans spotted British and USA type tanks branded with Soviet insignia throughout the campaign. 

[heartgarfunkel]

21 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

It’s been discussed before but the Soviets benefited from Lend Lease in WW2 as did ourselves, from the USA.  Not doubting their fighting spirit and relentless nature, but along with their own production , Lend Lease tipped the balance. 

I’ve read many many books and articles and the Germans just couldn’t believe the amount of armoury that just kept coming and coming when the Soviets started their counter attack after Stalingrad and there on.  It was overwhelming and it was noted that the Germans spotted British and USA type tanks branded with Soviet insignia throughout the campaign. 

 

Absolutely no doubt that Lend Lease was a critical factor in their victory, and that it was downplayed post-war for many reasons.  Arguably it was the transportation vehicles and aircraft that were most important as it allowed Soviet production to concentrate on the offensive weaponry that suited it best.  Done a fair bit of study on the impact of western combat aircraft as used by the VVS and it's fascinating - Spitfires and Thunderbolts nowhere near as effective as with the western Allies, but the P-39 Airacobra which wasn't given a sniff in the western theatre against the Luftwaffe was hugely effective as used by the Russians.  On balance I think that with no Lend Lease the Soviets would not have been defeated, but would have been a year or so behind their actual progress.  Operation Bagration in 1944 is just incredible - the levels of planning, nimble execution and success are just stunning.  Thank **** Putin is such a selective twat when he looks to lessons of the past.

[ri Alban]

18 hours ago, JimmyCant said:

Not a chance. If they even glance sideways at a NATO border in the next 2 years, I give it 3-4 days before the entire Russian military is dismantled.(what’s left of it) They are weaker than Iraq in the first gulf war and that lasted a week.

 

Youre right. This is nothing more than a war game scenario that’s been leaked. Zero chance of jt happening unless Russia have a ten year rebuild AND get support and supplies from China, Iran and North Korea

Fecking delusional,  NATO won't do shit. Every other ***** that hates the west will come calling. And then theirs the possibility of Trump being reelected.  Then Ukraine is fecked. 

 

 

 

Edited January 17 by ri Alban

[Cruyff]

14 hours ago, Cade said:

Russian bloggers and media can't decide what their story is about those two command & control planes that got hit.

Some claim it was friendly fire with the Russian air defence being so shite-hot that it can take down anything.

Others are claiming that it was British SAS forces launching missiles from rubber dinghies. 

Both of which are laughable. 

 

More reliable reports say that a Russian Su-34 was also targeted but managed to break missile lock with its flares and skedaddled right out of the area. 

The older AWACs, the Il-22 managed to land at a Russian airbase with heavy damage and will need significant repairs.
The more modern A-50 is now a submarine.

 

Ukraine are being very quiet about what actually hit the planes.

From what I've read, the Ukrainians set a trap and lured them into it.

 

On Saturday the Ukrainians air force destroyed some radar sites in Crimea which left Russia exposed. That forced Russia to use AWACS to cover the exposed area, Ukraine secretly moved Patriot Batteries forward, switch on their radar for enough seconds to find the AWACS position, shot them down with PACs and disappeared before they could be located. 

 

Russia had 4 or 6 of these planes but now they only have 2 airworthy ones and it is unlikely they will use them again in this fashion. Instead, the Russians now will probably have prioritize what sites and areas they need radar coverage over in Crimea. 

[Sawdust Caesar]

The much vaunted T-90M MBT getting it's arse handed to it.

 

 

[RustyRightPeg]

9 minutes ago, Sawdust Caesar said:

The much vaunted T-90M MBT getting it's arse handed to it.

 

 

 

Christ. 

 

That can't have felt or sounded good inside that.

[RustyRightPeg]

On 17/01/2024 at 05:42, ri Alban said:

Fecking delusional,  NATO won't do shit. Every other ***** that hates the west will come calling. And then theirs the possibility of Trump being reelected.  Then Ukraine is fecked. 

 

 

 

 

Yep.

 

Russia has something on him. It's weird.

 

[redjambo]

On 17/01/2024 at 07:00, Cruyff said:

From what I've read, the Ukrainians set a trap and lured them into it.

 

On Saturday the Ukrainians air force destroyed some radar sites in Crimea which left Russia exposed. That forced Russia to use AWACS to cover the exposed area, Ukraine secretly moved Patriot Batteries forward, switch on their radar for enough seconds to find the AWACS position, shot them down with PACs and disappeared before they could be located. 

 

Russia had 4 or 6 of these planes but now they only have 2 airworthy ones and it is unlikely they will use them again in this fashion. Instead, the Russians now will probably have prioritize what sites and areas they need radar coverage over in Crimea. 

 

Russia has 8 AWACS left. However, as you say, only 2 are immediately usable.

[Cade]

2nd part of that T-90M/Bradley fight shows all 3 crewmembers of the T-90M escaping the vehicle.

Tank may be heavily damaged but the crew survived.
It's a tough beast right enough, but then it was only up against a 25mm cannon and not another tank or artillery.

The fact that it still got taken out of action by a 25mm cannon should be raising concerns in the Russian military.

But then the fact that it was out on its own should be raising concerns too.

 

 

 

[Mikey1874]

Just an update on Russian offensive abilities 

 

 

 

[cuthy2k]

13 minutes ago, Cade said:

2nd part of that T-90M/Bradley fight shows all 3 crewmembers of the T-90M escaping the vehicle.

Tank may be heavily damaged but the crew survived.
It's a tough beast right enough, but then it was only up against a 25mm cannon and not another tank or artillery.

The fact that it still got taken out of action by a 25mm cannon should be raising concerns in the Russian military.

But then the fact that it was out on its own should be raising concerns too.

 

 

 

Like your posts on this thread, very informative Cade.

 

25mm auto-cannon with hits to the right places will disable anything i.e. mobility kill - sure I'm preaching to the converted. Only option for the crew once optics, sensors, comms and maybe drive chain loss was to bug out before something heavier came along for the kill shot. Lots of bangs for the ruskie crew also, not sure I would want to stick around being pelted like that under volume of fire. 

[Cade]

44 minutes ago, cuthy2k said:

Like your posts on this thread, very informative Cade.

 

25mm auto-cannon with hits to the right places will disable anything i.e. mobility kill - sure I'm preaching to the converted. Only option for the crew once optics, sensors, comms and maybe drive chain loss was to bug out before something heavier came along for the kill shot. Lots of bangs for the ruskie crew also, not sure I would want to stick around being pelted like that under volume of fire. 

 

Bradleys started off with AP ammo then ran out and had to switch to high explosive. No AT missiles fired by either Bradley either so they may have previously expended those.

T-90's turret ended up spinning out of control (until it hit the tree at the end, that then may have burned out the motor).

So they did knock it out of action, just not a crew kill or destruction of the vehicle.

If recovered, it can be repaired (if, of course they have parts to fix it).

Fate of the crew is uncertain too. Some say captured, some say killed by a drone. May even have made it back to their own lines.

 

 

Edited January 18 by Cade

[Mikey1874]

 

[Dawnrazor]

17 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Jewish space lasers?🤔

[highlandjambo3]

On 18/01/2024 at 17:44, Cade said:

 

Bradleys started off with AP ammo then ran out and had to switch to high explosive. No AT missiles fired by either Bradley either so they may have previously expended those.

T-90's turret ended up spinning out of control (until it hit the tree at the end, that then may have burned out the motor).

So they did knock it out of action, just not a crew kill or destruction of the vehicle.

If recovered, it can be repaired (if, of course they have parts to fix it).

Fate of the crew is uncertain too. Some say captured, some say killed by a drone. May even have made it back to their own lines.

 

 

It would be interesting to see the minutes leading up to this encounter.  As both types of vehicles are capable of hitting targets a mile away I’d suspect this was a *chance encounter, I don’t think any IFV commander would take on a main battle tank, even 2 or 3 AFV’s together, the Russians crew their MBTs with 3 as they rely on self loading guns.

 

I think there was mention of the tank firing and missing?  Possibly a snap shot if the tank commander seen two targets at close range, that was their undoing I would guess.

 

Automatic 25mm AP rounds will make a lot of mess along the soft spots on the front of the tank, gun sights, periscopes, range finders etc……I’d guess that tank was blind pretty quickly and, the AP rounds hitting between the hull and turret could knock the traversing ring off the power sprocket.

 

No mention of any troops in the back of the Bradley’s.

 

* a chance encounter is possible but, if the Ukrainian military can film this on a drone, maybe it was a deliberate ambush on a tank…..or the drone was there by chance 🤷‍♂️

[Cade]

18 minutes ago, highlandjambo3 said:

It would be interesting to see the minutes leading up to this encounter.  As both types of vehicles are capable of hitting targets a mile away I’d suspect this was a *chance encounter, I don’t think any IFV commander would take on a main battle tank, even 2 or 3 AFV’s together, the Russians crew their MBTs with 3 as they rely on self loading guns.

 

I think there was mention of the tank firing and missing?  Possibly a snap shot if the tank commander seen two targets at close range, that was their undoing I would guess.

 

Automatic 25mm AP rounds will make a lot of mess along the soft spots on the front of the tank, gun sights, periscopes, range finders etc……I’d guess that tank was blind pretty quickly and, the AP rounds hitting between the hull and turret could knock the traversing ring off the power sprocket.

 

No mention of any troops in the back of the Bradley’s.

 

* a chance encounter is possible but, if the Ukrainian military can film this on a drone, maybe it was a deliberate ambush on a tank…..or the drone was there by chance 🤷‍♂️

 

Tank fired main gun but hit a ruined house.

In the background there is a larger firefight going on which is probably the rest of the Russian detachment getting destroyed.

They've normally been attacking with 2 tanks and 2 IFVs with infantry both inside the IFV and hanging onto the outside, so around 2 platoons in size.

The Russian IFVs and other tank may be what's happening off in the background and this T-90 got separated and baited by the two Bradleys.

[Sawdust Caesar]

15 hours ago, highlandjambo3 said:

It would be interesting to see the minutes leading up to this encounter.  As both types of vehicles are capable of hitting targets a mile away I’d suspect this was a *chance encounter, I don’t think any IFV commander would take on a main battle tank, even 2 or 3 AFV’s together, the Russians crew their MBTs with 3 as they rely on self loading guns.

 

I think there was mention of the tank firing and missing?  Possibly a snap shot if the tank commander seen two targets at close range, that was their undoing I would guess.

 

Automatic 25mm AP rounds will make a lot of mess along the soft spots on the front of the tank, gun sights, periscopes, range finders etc……I’d guess that tank was blind pretty quickly and, the AP rounds hitting between the hull and turret could knock the traversing ring off the power sprocket.

 

No mention of any troops in the back of the Bradley’s.

 

* a chance encounter is possible but, if the Ukrainian military can film this on a drone, maybe it was a deliberate ambush on a tank…..or the drone was there by chance 🤷‍♂️

I watch this former US combat veteran's videos on war in Ukraine, he gives a good insight in to what may have happened. He reckons there was 2 Bradleys plus drones that attacked the tank. Not as impressive as my first thought that it was only 1 Bradley that took out the tank. Still a great result for the Ukrainians.

 

 

[highlandjambo3]

50 minutes ago, Sawdust Caesar said:

I watch this former US combat veteran's videos on war in Ukraine, he gives a good insight in to what may have happened. He reckons there was 2 Bradleys plus drones that attacked the tank. Not as impressive as my first thought that it was only 1 Bradley that took out the tank. Still a great result for the Ukrainians.

 

 

Ok….he's obviously got more intel on what happened in the buildup to the engagement.  If what he says is accurate then this was not a chance encounter, more like an ambush.  In the short clip showing the action there is no sign of the Bradley’s however, if they were waiting in ambush they would have been “hull down” and hard to spot, hull down means the vulnerable “cab” of the vehicle would be invisible to anyone approaching….say like down in a crater, the yanks may have a different term.  Still takes some balls to deliberately take on a tank head on…….blinding the tank quickly was their master stroke, hence the reason the IFV’s waited until the last safe moment.  There are lots of soft spots on the front of a tank and, most of these can be retracted for their protection from like artillery fire…….in this case the crew had no time to react though.

 

Our training would have had us finding a defilade position to get a side on shot as it passed so, how did they know the tank would approach them head on………..heres how:

 

When you do your anti tank platoon commanders training down in Salisbury, you need to produce (daily) an intelligence preparation of the battlefield (IPB) and submit this to the battalion commander to allow the CO to plan accordingly, part of the IPB is to determine no go/slow go/ and go routes armour can take…..this is done using a clear talc type of material placed over a map….no go routes are etched in red, slow go etched in amber and go etched in green.  Sounds easy but, you need to know a tanks capabilities, like ditch/river crossing, gradients it can climb, it’s potential short term objectives (where is it going and why) areas where barrel strike can impact its ability to traverse etc…..once you’ve done your “colouring in” task and, if you’ve applied some decent amount of thought into it…..the green route is highly likely the enemy’s route of advance………simples (sometimes) 

[Mikey1874]

 

[Sawdust Caesar]

 

[Mikey1874]

In different times there would be massive headlines about Ukraine taking the war to Russia.

 

 

[Cruyff]

14 hours ago, Sawdust Caesar said:

 

Shan but what a feckin idiot. 

[Mikey1874]

Another step forward

 

 

[Lovecraft]

On 20/01/2024 at 21:28, Sawdust Caesar said:

 

Shame.  Hope nothing bad happens to him.

 

 

[Lone Striker]

UK sends UN experts photographs of North Korean shipments to Russia

 

 

Photograph: UK Ministry of Defence © Crown Copyright 2023

The UK has provided satellite photographs of North Korean cargo shipments to Russia to a panel of UN experts as part of an attempt to trigger an official investigation into arms deals in violation of international sanctions.

North Korea has been accused of supplying ballistic missiles and hundreds of thousands of artillery shells to the Russian government for its war in Ukraine since Vladimir Putin met with Kim Jong-un in Russia’s far east in September.

Their bilateral relationship appears to be expanding. Putin met the North Korean foreign minister, Choe Son-hui, in the Kremlin this week during a rare, five-day trip by the senior Pyongyang official. The two discussed “further development of our relations in all areas, including sensitive ones”, according to a Kremlin spokesperson.

 

An unpublished UK defence intelligence report seen by the Guardian shows imagery taken between September and December of three Russian ships, the Maia, Angara and Maria, loading containers at North Korea’s revived Najin port before transiting to Russian ports in the far east. While the agency said it could not identify what was in the containers, it followed a US announcement last week that ballistic missiles from North Korea had been used by Russia in Ukraine last week.

“Russia’s use of North Korean weapons in Ukraine is a violation of multiple UN security council resolutions,” said a UN diplomat. “It undermines international efforts to prevent the spread of nuclear weapons and exposes just how desperate Russia has become in its failed invasion. This and other evidence submitted to the UN sanctions committee should trigger a full investigation into Russia and DPRK’s [North Korea’s] flagrant breaking of international sanctions.”

The report, along with other evidence from the United States and other countries, was provided to the UN panel of experts on North Korean proliferation, which is expected next month to publish its first final report since suspected North Korean shipments of ammunition to Russia sharply increased this year.

The ships in the report were all placed under sanctions by the US government in 2022 for their links to the Russian ministry of defence’s shipping company, Oboronlogistika OOO, which has “been involved in Russia’s illegal seizure and occupation of Crimea since 2014, as well as private Russian maritime shipping companies that transport weapons and other military equipment for the [government of Russia]”.

Two of the three ships were also identified in a recent report by the Royal United Services Institute thinktank. It showed a growth in transshipments from North Korea to Russia that “reveal that Russia has likely begun shipping North Korean munitions at scale”. A third was identified by NK News, an independent news website focusing on North Korea, as “part of a group of commercial vessels that have completed multiple deliveries of military equipment and munitions provided by the DPRK to Russia”.

The deliveries have been cited as enabling military strikes against Ukraine in December and January that “killed dozens of people and injured hundreds more”.

Prosecutors in Kharkiv told the Guardian that suspected fragments of North Korean-made Iskander missiles had been sent to Kyiv for analysis and said the missiles had subtle differences: hand-drawn lettering for serial numbers, and a different nozzle exhaust cone and welding.

A statement released by eight members of the security council, including the UK and US, said: “These heinous attacks were conducted, in part, using ballistic missiles and ballistic missile launchers procured from [North Korea].”

The White House’s senior director for arms control, Pranay Vaddi, said this week that the military cooperation between Russia and North Korea was “unprecedented” and warned that Russian military assistance to North Korea could undermine the US nuclear deterrence policy in South Korea and Japan.

“I think the nature of North Korea as a threat in the region could drastically change over the coming decade as a result of this cooperation,” he told the Center for Strategic and International Studies thinktank.

Choe met Putin, the foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, and the deputy prime minister Alexander Novak during her visit to Russia.

North Korea also signalled that it may be receiving Russian help for its space programme.

Before the meeting with Putin, a member of the North Korean delegation was photographed with a document apparently titled Observation List in Space Technology Field, according to South Korea’s Yonhap news agency.

The list appeared to include the Progress Rocket Space Centre and the Voronezh mechanical plant, known to produce engines, although the writing was not completely clear, the news agency wrote.

Putin had previously pledged to help North Korea build satellites, and North Korea managed to launch its first spy satellite in November. South Korea alleged that Russia had helped build the spy satellite.

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 hour ago, Lovecraft said:

Shame.  Hope nothing bad happens to him.

 

 

Poor soul.

What a shame. 

[Hansel]

On 20/01/2024 at 21:28, Sawdust Caesar said:

 

He fecked around and found out

[Cade]

A Russian IL-76 heavy lift military cargo plane crashed in the Belgorod region of Russia yesterday.

Later reports state that it was brought down by Ukraine.

Given that the crash location was beyond Belgorod city itself, this means that Patriot was probably used, due to the range.

Ukraine has a limited supply of Patriot missiles, so instead of using the system to shoot down incoming cruise/ballistic missiles in a defensive role, they've been using it to hit important air targets such as the two AWACs planes last week and the squadron of SU-34 bombers the week before that.

Reports of what this IL-76 was carrying are unclear. Some (mainly Russian) sources claim it was ferrying Ukrainian POWs to the front lines for a prisoner exchange, but that's probably bollocks.
Others say that the plane was ferrying Russian special forces, which is also probably bollocks. Russia generally moves troops around by rail.
The more likely cargo was ammunition, and some sources claim that the plane was carrying S-300 missiles, which ironically are an air defence missile.

Speaking of the two AWACs planes, we know that one of them managed to land at a Russian airbase and the only photo we had was of the tail section which was peppered with shrapnel.

It now seems that the pilot of that plane has since died of injuries sustained in that attack so the damage must have been far more extensive than the tail. 

 

 

[Mikey1874]

It's early stages in determining whether there is any truth in Russian claim Ukraine shot down a plane full of Ukrainian prisoners about to be exchanged 

 

But in the list of Ukrainian prisoners supposedly on the plane, 17 were released earlier this month. 

[Cade]

Ukrainian officials have now refuted the earlier media reports that Ukraine shot that plane down.

 

Could have been a Russian air defence error or just shoddy maintenance on the plane.

 

Obviously, facts are hard to come by in this situation.

[Mac_fae_Gillie]

No matter what has happened very odd that Sergey Lavrov it was whilst  was in NY due to talk at UN. 

 

Looks like plan to put political pressure on UKR, maybe shot down/or bomb by Moscow or tricked UKR into shooting it down, would be very odd if the 1st plane over Russia proper shot down by UKR was carrying POWs.

 

Got to remember the last plane to crash in Russia with that rebel guy on board crashed according to Moscow because they were playing with grenades.

[Cade]

Pictures reputedly from the crash site seem to show shrapnel damage so it was defo shot down.

 

Who shot it down and what it was carrying remain unknown.

[Sawdust Caesar]

Yet another fire at an oil refinery.

 

Ukrainian military don't believe there were POWs on board. 

 

 

[Cade]

Only one body shown in all the photos or videos from the crash site.

All civilian emergency services were removed from the crash site, the site has had a wide cordon around it and only military personnel are being allowed in.

IL-76 on passenger duty would usually have 5 crew plus extra guards for the prisoners.

Cargo duty is a 4 man crew.

Russian air ministry has only listed 4 dead crew.

 

[Mikey1874]

54 minutes ago, Cade said:

Only one body shown in all the photos or videos from the crash site.

All civilian emergency services were removed from the crash site, the site has had a wide cordon around it and only military personnel are being allowed in.

IL-76 on passenger duty would usually have 5 crew plus extra guards for the prisoners.

Cargo duty is a 4 man crew.

Russian air ministry has only listed 4 dead crew.

 

 

Prisoners are never sent by plane. They go in armoured trucks with more than 3 guards.

 

Western media swallowed it though so job done. 

[Cade]

Notice anything slightly strange about these two statements by Russia?

 

Last week: "The A-50 aerial command aircraft was shot down by Russian air defence in a tragic friendly fire accident, Ukraine had nothing to do with it"

 

This week: "The IL-76 transport aircraft was not shot down by Russian air defence as our air defence systems never make mistakes, Ukraine did it!"

 

 

 

[Cruyff]

Putin is a brutally cruel *******. 

He's punished Ukraine for shooting down his AWACS by tricking them into shooting down a plane full of their own POWs. 

[Cade]

If there had been POWs on board, do you not think the Russkies would be publishing photos of all the many, many dead?

They'd be inviting media in and making a big hoo-hah about it. Instead the site has been cleared of all but military personnel.

Half of the POWs on the so-called "passenger list" had been exchanged months ago.

The local morgue has said it only took in 5 bodies, the crew.

 

 

[Cade]

Far-right politicians in Hungary are claiming that Russia has promised to give Hungary the Ukrainian oblast of Zakarpattia (also known at Transcarpathia) if Russia wins the war.

 

 Not only would this explain Orban's actions, it also proves that Russia won't just be happy with all the land it's already illegally annexed.

[Mac_fae_Gillie]

1 hour ago, Cade said:

Far-right politicians in Hungary are claiming that Russia has promised to give Hungary the Ukrainian oblast of Zakarpattia (also known at Transcarpathia) if Russia wins the war.

 

 Not only would this explain Orban's actions, it also proves that Russia won't just be happy with all the land it's already illegally annexed.

Sounds very Molotov–Ribbentrop, Orban is crying out for strong Russia, is this part of the reason.

[Mikey1874]

What a complex world there is certainly for the United States.

 

Iranian drones causing devastation in Ukraine for months albeit air defence has been good. 

 

USA might put a stop to it now 3 Americans killed. 

[redjambo]

On 27/01/2024 at 20:11, Cade said:

If there had been POWs on board, do you not think the Russkies would be publishing photos of all the many, many dead?

They'd be inviting media in and making a big hoo-hah about it. Instead the site has been cleared of all but military personnel.

Half of the POWs on the so-called "passenger list" had been exchanged months ago.

The local morgue has said it only took in 5 bodies, the crew.

 

 

 

I was interested when travelling in Hungary to see various signs of folk wanting to regain a "Greater (Historic) Hungary", including stickers on cars. Nationalism is never dead.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_irredentism

 

If every country were to regain its maximal borders, there would be a hell of a lot of overlap.

[Ulysses]

7 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

I was interested when travelling in Hungary to see various signs of folk wanting to regain a "Greater (Historic) Hungary", including stickers on cars. Nationalism is never dead.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_irredentism

 

If every country were to regain its maximal borders, there would be a hell of a lot of overlap.

 

 

In the interests of historical accuracy a "Greater Hungary" would have a lot of dead Hungarian men and a lot of live Hungarian women in compromising positions in Vienna. 

Edited January 28 by Ulysses
Effing Samsung autocorr-effing-rect.

[redjambo]

47 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

 

In the interests of historical accuracy a "Greater Hungary" would have a lot of dead Hungarian men and a lot of live Hungarian women in compromising positions in Vienna. 

 

I don't think the Hungarians will be clinking glasses to that.

[Day@theraces]

When is this stalemate gong to end. 

[Ulysses]

1 hour ago, redjambo said:

 

I don't think the Hungarians will be clinking glasses to that.

 

Not the lads, at any rate.