il Duce McTarkin Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, ri Alban said: Just because Putin started this doesn't mean I have to hate Russians or Russia. Putin didn't start it, ausseh. That full scale land invasion of Ukraine that the Russians said woudn't happen about 5 minutes before the tanks and attack helicopters screamed across the borders from Russia and Belarus was Angela Merkel and that French bloke's fault. Edited June 12, 2023 by Dirk McTarkin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 19 hours ago, Mikey1874 said: Russia just got pissed off when Ukraine ditched its pro Russian Government. Being closer to West and EU isn't a crime. Russia was even doing that for a while. You need to argue for Scotland being allied to Russia with a pro Russian Government if you think Ukraine did something wrong. Ironically Zelensky was being criticised for being too friendly with Russia and he certainly was willing to accept a peace deal last February. Russia changed all that and the only outcome is Russia defeat. Anyway who wants to ally Scotland with Russia? Who doesn't? You think Zelensky and his wee gang are innocent? I have no doubt that in thethe east of Ukraine something was going on. Enough for military action, I doubt it, but Zelensky is a very good actor, I'll give him that. Well find out soon enough what went on, and not for the first time we probably armed nutters to fight other nutters. Anyway, Putin will see a jail cell, at the same time Blair and Bush does. Now what they did was evil, but do we blame our troops and cheer their deaths, No. That's just evil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 4 minutes ago, Dirk McTarkin said: Putin didn't start it, ausseh. That full scale land invasion of Ukraine that the Russians said woudn't happen about 5 minutes before the tanks and attack helicopters screamed across the borders from Russia and Belarus was Angela Merkel's fault. I knew it!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libertarian Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 7 hours ago, Homme said: Thanks for the reminder that Nazis are confined to the Ukraine. None in Russia, Germany or even Scotland these days. There are facists in every country including Russia and even Scotland but unlike Ukraine they are not officially integrated into the military and the government Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libertarian Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 1 hour ago, Dirk McTarkin said: I agree that the war in Ukraine is a disaster, for all parties mind, and for the wider world. Not just the Ukrainians. I've said so from the beginning. Does that make me a Putin apologist? Now, are you going to answer those questions that I put to you half a dozen times yesterday and that you kept avoiding? The ones that give you the opportunity to show that you're not a Putin apologist - which incidently, isn't something that I've accused you of. Not my pals, champ, they look a ot like some kind of Nazi. I'm unsure how you drew that conclusion from the post that you quoted, when I quite clearly agreed that the 'west' propping up Nazis was not cricket. Any flippancy was simply an attempt to mimic yours. Make you feel more comfortable, y'know. Help you find yur voice. If you had been alive in the 30s you probably would have thought that Oswald's Black Shirt were standing up for the working class and that Hitler was a great German leader. There's never any excuse for defending facism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il Duce McTarkin Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 2 minutes ago, Libertarian said: If you had been alive in the 30s you probably would have thought that Oswald's Black Shirt were standing up for the working class and that Hitler was a great German leader. There's never any excuse for defending facism. Where am I defending it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFK-1 Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 41 minutes ago, Libertarian said: There are facists in every country including Russia and even Scotland but unlike Ukraine they are not officially integrated into the military and the government What are you getting at? Are you saying a batallion estimated to be no more than 2,500 strong means Ukraine is riddled with Nazis? And Putin had to deal with that? He's a good guy? Russia good Ukraine bad?? Is that it in a nutshell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All roads lead to Gorgie Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 It's legitimate to have concerns that Ukraine maybe weren't squeaky clean in the east of their country prior to this but to go down the Putin path of screaming it's the Nazis and to openly support the invasion is ludicrous. It's nothing to do with buffer zones anymore, it's Putin wanting his own Russian empire and now his rage it's not happening is causing Russian war crimes on an even bigger scale than before. Ukraine deserves to live without being invaded and to plot it's own course politically. Bush and Blair were ignorant and wrong to instigate the war in Iraq but that was not to turn the country into a part of the USA or the UK. Millions protested against our governments before and during the conflict, you don't see that in Putin's wonderful open Russia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFK-1 Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 41 minutes ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said: It's legitimate to have concerns that Ukraine maybe weren't squeaky clean in the east of their country prior to this but to go down the Putin path of screaming it's the Nazis and to openly support the invasion is ludicrous. It's nothing to do with buffer zones anymore, it's Putin wanting his own Russian empire and now his rage it's not happening is causing Russian war crimes on an even bigger scale than before. Ukraine deserves to live without being invaded and to plot it's own course politically. Bush and Blair were ignorant and wrong to instigate the war in Iraq but that was not to turn the country into a part of the USA or the UK. Millions protested against our governments before and during the conflict, you don't see that in Putin's wonderful open Russia. And regarding Iraq in depth debate in the west ever since resulting in a general concensus that it was a mistake not to be repeated. And I don't recall mass graves of murdered civilians in the aftermath, nor any attempt to wipe Iraq out as a nation by systematically destroying it's infrastructures. Introspection wont be happening in Russia if Putin survives this still in power. There is absolutely no excuse for this assault on Ukraine, no security concerns. It's a land grab pure and simple, anyone who actually thinks Putin gives the proverbial flying about Nazi's even if they were real is simple minded. Ukraine had no likelihood of NATO membership in the near future, more than 10 years if ever. And even if they had joined NATO, so what? NATO don't need Ukraine to beat Russia, we all know that and so does Putin. And he also knows NATO have no intention of attacking Russia and never have. The suggestion that NATO were a threat doesn't mean a threat to Russia, it means a threat to their imperialist ambitions and that's true. But I don't see why I or anybody else should give the proverbial flying about being a threat to Putin's empire building. I think this a is a classic you're either for or us against us situation, no middle ground. Ukraine are 100% the victim of an unprovoked attack accompanied by mass looting, vandalism and atrocities on the civilian population. With a reasoning from Putin so absurd he may as well have said we're doing it just because. They need to get Russia out of every square inch of their territory or this will be never ending. Even if there were some sort of negotiated end to it with Russia still in Ukraine, it would kick off again sometime. As soon as Putin could prepare for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All roads lead to Gorgie Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 5 minutes ago, JFK-1 said: And regarding Iraq in depth debate in the west ever since resulting in a general concensus that it was a mistake not to be repeated. And I don't recall mass graves of murdered civilians in the aftermath, nor any attempt to wipe Iraq out as a nation by systematically destroying it's infrastructures. Introspection wont be happening in Russia if Putin survives this still in power. There is absolutely no excuse for this assault on Ukraine, no security concerns. It's a land grab pure and simple, anyone who actually thinks Putin gives the proverbial flying about Nazi's even if they were real is simple minded. Ukraine had no likelihood of NATO membership in the near future, more than 10 years if ever. And even if they had joined NATO, so what? NATO don't need Ukraine to beat Russia, we all know that and so does Putin. And he also knows NATO have no intention of attacking Russia and never have. The suggestion that NATO were a threat doesn't mean a threat to Russia, it means a threat to their imperialist ambitions and that's true. But I don't see why I or anybody else should give the proverbial flying about being a threat to Putin's empire building. I think this a is a classic you're either for or us against us situation, no middle ground. Ukraine are 100% the victim of an unprovoked attack accompanied by mass looting, vandalism and atrocities on the civilian population. With a reasoning from Putin so absurd he may as well have said we're doing it just because. They need to get Russia out of every square inch of their territory or this will be never ending. Even if there were some sort of negotiated end to it with Russia still in Ukraine, it would kick off again sometime. As soon as Putin could prepare for it. I agree totally that Russia has to be removed from every square inch of Ukraine and the Russian Mob running the Kremlin have to realise once and for all that invading or meddling in other nations will lead to Russia going deeper and deeper into the mire. They have created this mess for their own country which let's face it could be thriving but for the self inflicted madness and lack of proper democracy. How any poster on here can try to argue the Russian case and enjoy western freedoms at the same time, it's senseless! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 Lots of history in Ukraine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 This is buried within the BBC's live coverage today Story on elite Russian losses and deaths from September 2022. Incredible. https://bbcrussian.substack.com/p/russia-elite-force-losses-in-ukraine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OBE Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 Crimea, 2014, Malaysia flight MH17, 2014, UK, Novichok poisoning, 2018 and The invasion of UKR, 2022. After all the above, Putin must've known a slap was imminent from the West. Now, it's punches...escalation it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milky_26 Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 2 minutes ago, OBE said: Crimea, 2014, Malaysia flight MH17, 2014, UK, Novichok poisoning, 2018 and The invasion of UKR, 2022. After all the above, Putin must've known a slap was imminent from the West. Now, it's punches...escalation it is. 2006 polonium murder of Alexander litvinenko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OBE Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 58 minutes ago, milky_26 said: 2006 polonium murder of Alexander litvinenko Yes, that poor soul, as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il Duce McTarkin Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 3 minutes ago, OBE said: Yes, that poor soul, as well... He was a traitor and deserved everything he got. Sent a message to the rest of the turncoats that they could be bumped off in horrific fashion anytime, anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OBE Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 10 minutes ago, Dirk McTarkin said: He was a traitor and deserved everything he got. Sent a message to the rest of the turncoats that they could be bumped off in horrific fashion anytime, anywhere. Another school day... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 Apparently Tokmak has taken a bit of a beasting over the last few days with several ammo dumps and other warehouses being hit by HIMARS and Storm Shadow strikes. There are also unconfirmed reports that partizans have tried to blow a small railway bridge which crosses a canal between Melitopol and Crimea. Railway tracks are relatively quick and easy to repair, but a railway bridge is a whole other matter, even a wee one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawdust Caesar Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 Last week Shoigu signed a decree that all mercenary groups fighting for Russia now have to sign a contract agreeing to be brought under the control of the Russian MOD. Prighozin has already said that Wagner wont be signing anything. Apparently he also posted a threat against Shoigu. Wonder how long he'll last or is Shoigu more likely to come a cropper? Apologies of already posted (cba looking) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libertarian Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 https://www.rokfin.com/stream/35444/UKRAINES-SUICIDE-OFFENSIVE-COLLAPSE Garland Nixon nails it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 7 minutes ago, Libertarian said: https://www.rokfin.com/stream/35444/UKRAINES-SUICIDE-OFFENSIVE-COLLAPSE Garland Nixon nails it Unfortunately for Russia, no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffros Furios Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 8 minutes ago, Libertarian said: https://www.rokfin.com/stream/35444/UKRAINES-SUICIDE-OFFENSIVE-COLLAPSE Garland Nixon nails it Has/Did have a talkshow on Sputnik International and Fox News ... Sputnik obviously Ivan owned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highlandjambo3 Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said: Unfortunately for Russia, no Not a great angle but, I don’t see a leopard tank there. When we did AFV (armoured fighting vehicle) recognition, which was a major part of the anti tank courses I completed, the idea was to attempt to identify different parts of a vehicle based on what you can see, the vehicle could be hull down (in a ditch) or partially concealed with foliage/camouflage nets etc…….what I can clearly see in that picture is a tube like cylinder on the rear of the vehicle which soviet T64 & T80 tanks have for snorkelling, there are also block like objects around the front and sides of the vehicle, again soviet type of reactive armour placed on key parts of the vehicle to take the sting out of any AT missile strike. Two pictures below, T64 & T80 with reactive armour, I’d swing towards a T80 being in that picture above. leopard 2 has a huge turret (see picture) Edited June 12, 2023 by highlandjambo3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il Duce McTarkin Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 1 hour ago, Libertarian said: https://www.rokfin.com/stream/35444/UKRAINES-SUICIDE-OFFENSIVE-COLLAPSE Garland Nixon nails it Which you're absolutely delighted about, clearly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 Odesa another big failure in the Putin plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 4 hours ago, Sawdust Caesar said: Last week Shoigu signed a decree that all mercenary groups fighting for Russia now have to sign a contract agreeing to be brought under the control of the Russian MOD. Prighozin has already said that Wagner wont be signing anything. Apparently he also posted a threat against Shoigu. Wonder how long he'll last or is Shoigu more likely to come a cropper? Apologies of already posted (cba looking) Comedy club Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 5 hours ago, Libertarian said: https://www.rokfin.com/stream/35444/UKRAINES-SUICIDE-OFFENSIVE-COLLAPSE Garland Nixon nails it Any chance of explaining why you think Ukraine has a population of 18m? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFK-1 Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 20 Days In Mariupol (trailer) | FRONTLINE Ukrainian filmmaker and Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Mstyslav Chernov offers a window into the practices of conflict zone reporters and an unflinching, anguishing account of the 20 days he and colleagues spent covering Mariupol. "20 Days in Mariupol" is a @frontline and @AssociatedPress collaboration. The documentary premieres in select theaters this summer and comes to PBS this fall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 (edited) Russia still bombing the main Ukrainian military facilities Edited June 13, 2023 by Mikey1874 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 Ukraine continues to push south along that wee valley I've mentioned a couple of times. They've also attacked the flanks, narrowing the gap between each attacking force to such an extent that the Russians had to evacuate two entire towns to avoid being encircled. Russians then blew yet another dam on the same river in an attempt to halt the Ukrainians rolling down the valley so fast. HIMARS and Storm Shadow continue to demolish Russian logistical and command hubs, and yesterday destroyed a major Headquarters complex deep behind the lines on the coast of the Sea of Azov, killing Major General Sergei Goryachev, who was in charge of the 35th Russian Army. Apparently the Russian Chief of the General Staff, Valery Gerasimov, is in the area in person too, which would be a major blow if Ukraine can take him out too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Tolbooth Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 11 hours ago, cosanostra said: Any chance of explaining why you think Ukraine has a population of 18m? No point asking him difficult questions mate, he avoids those ones Off the top of my head I thought their population was around the 45 million mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 14 minutes ago, The Old Tolbooth said: No point asking him difficult questions mate, he avoids those ones Off the top of my head I thought their population was around the 45 million mark. 40-45m seems to be the general consensus but apparently Libertarian has some other info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Tolbooth Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 8 minutes ago, cosanostra said: 40-45m seems to be the general consensus but apparently Libertarian has some other info. I look forward to his reply......never! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il Duce McTarkin Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 18 minutes ago, cosanostra said: 40-45m seems to be the general consensus but apparently Libertarian has some other info. Libertarian won't be counting the populations of Crimea and other the Russian occupied territories, or any of the folk who've been 'evacuated' east to the motherland, as he doesn't recognise them as Ukraine/Ukrainian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 19 minutes ago, Dirk McTarkin said: Libertarian won't be counting the populations of Crimea and other the Russian occupied territories, or any of the folk who've been 'evacuated' east to the motherland, as he doesn't recognise them as Ukraine/Ukrainian. https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/UKR/ukraine/population Some current and historical detail at the above link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XB52 Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 26 minutes ago, Dirk McTarkin said: Libertarian won't be counting the populations of Crimea and other the Russian occupied territories, or any of the folk who've been 'evacuated' east to the motherland, as he doesn't recognise them as Ukraine/Ukrainian. Twitter, well at least before the loony took over, banned conspiracy tweets, so how come this fruit loop is allowed to post on here?? Not you Dick🙂🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il Duce McTarkin Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 7 minutes ago, Footballfirst said: https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/UKR/ukraine/population Some current and historical detail at the above link. Western disinformation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Dirk McTarkin said: Western disinformation. Libertarian will be discounting Crimea - 2m Kherson - 1m Donetsk - 4m Luhansk - 2m Zaporizhzhia - 1.2m Displaced (war refugees) - 8m Edited June 13, 2023 by Footballfirst Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 On 12/06/2023 at 11:06, OBE said: Crimea, 2014, Malaysia flight MH17, 2014, UK, Novichok poisoning, 2018 and The invasion of UKR, 2022. After all the above, Putin must've known a slap was imminent from the West. Now, it's punches...escalation it is. He’s literally got away with murder. And gone completely unchallenged in Russia took. The Russian population are as complicit as him, which is why I have no sympathy for them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il Duce McTarkin Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 44 minutes ago, Footballfirst said: Libertarian will be discounting Crimea - 2m Kherson - 1m Donetsk - 4m Luhansk - 2m Zaporizhzhia - 1.2m Displaced (war refugees) - 8m Revealing, huh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 57 minutes ago, Footballfirst said: Libertarian will be discounting Crimea - 2m Kherson - 1m Donetsk - 4m Luhansk - 2m Zaporizhzhia - 1.2m Displaced (war refugees) - 8m 8 million displaced I am confused as to why they fled their liberators from the Jewish nazi elected dictator western stooge they all fear ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il Duce McTarkin Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, doctor jambo said: 8 million displaced I am confused as to why they fled their liberators from the Jewish nazi elected dictator western stooge they all fear ? The Jew nazi dictor western stooges are less rapey, apparently. Edited June 13, 2023 by Dirk McTarkin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 4 minutes ago, doctor jambo said: 8 million displaced I am confused as to why they fled their liberators from the Jewish nazi elected dictator western stooge they all fear ? The largest no of "refugees" ended up in Russia, whether or not by choice. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1312584/ukrainian-refugees-by-country/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 The removal of Ukrainians to Russia is something that isn't highlighted so much. They also have many people such as local government officials in prison or at least those they didn't kill. In many ways Russia is getting a better reputation than it deserves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 27 minutes ago, Dirk McTarkin said: The Jew nazi dictor western stooges are less rapey, apparently. Must be a foreskin thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il Duce McTarkin Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 43 minutes ago, doctor jambo said: Must be a foreskin thing You'd know, Mengele. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 6 minutes ago, Dirk McTarkin said: You'd know, Mengele. Hoodies are goodies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 6 hours ago, Footballfirst said: Libertarian will be discounting Crimea - 2m Kherson - 1m Donetsk - 4m Luhansk - 2m Zaporizhzhia - 1.2m Displaced (war refugees) - 8m And all those under 18 as well. Children are naturally born Russian in Ukraine and only become Ukrainian when that nationality is forcibly indoctrinated into them by the fascist schools they attend. Or something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watt-Zeefuik Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 7 hours ago, Footballfirst said: https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/UKR/ukraine/population Some current and historical detail at the above link. Well that explains where he got it. He's mixed up the UN projection for 2100 based on current fertility, mortality, and migration trends for the current population. Of course those are guaranteed to be 100% accurate over 75 year time periods, considering that nothing really changes in that amount of time . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 Hard to know whether this is just normal Russia to be fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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