Russia Invades Ukraine

[JFK-1]

1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

Can I ask, were there any excuses for the atrocities if Iraq and Afghanistan? WMD remember that, or the Taliban being blamed for 9/11. The West really need to stop throwing stones.

 

Personally, I hope Ukraine come through this, but Russian grievances must be addressed, like NATO pitching up camp on Russia's border, or we can't moan when Russia or China do the same. Mind Cuba?

 

Can I ask what sort of mentality can try to produce an equivalence to what's happening In Ukraine with Iraq? And that's while agreeing Iraq was a mistake, and also mentioning that in Western circles it's openly debated as a mistake.

And no one is in any trouble for doing so, are they? Like drinking poisoned tea or doing 15 years in the gulag. Are they?

Without wasting time on too much more detail I recall no months long random artillery shelling of Iraqi cities. No civilians merely trying to evacuate being mass murdered. I recall no frequent tales of soldiers deliberately slaughtering civilians in any circumstances.
 

And those are only some of the factors that make it non equivalent.

You're delusional if you think they will ever deal with this man again far less recognise grievances which are a pile of shite to begin with.
 

It's a double continent sized country no one has ever managed to invade. Because it's so big. And at this time in history no one is even interested in taking a square inch of their double continent sized country. He on the other hand wants to take even more from others.
 

And I will tell you something else that's delusional. All this shit about NATO rolling up to borders. If that's what a free nation wants that's what they're entitled to. And that's exactly what Sweden and Finland will get double quick. Thanks to Putin.
 

You know why? In this day and age and after what he has done no one gives a flying feck about his imperialist like grievances. No one but you maybe? They're going to take him down not address anything. 

[manaliveits105]

29 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

Can I ask what sort of mentality can try to produce an equivalence to what's happening In Ukraine with Iraq? And that's while agreeing Iraq was a mistake, and also mentioning that in Western circles it's openly debated as a mistake.

And no one is in any trouble for doing so, are they? Like drinking poisoned tea or doing 15 years in the gulag. Are they?

Without wasting time on too much more detail I recall no months long random artillery shelling of Iraqi cities. No civilians merely trying to evacuate being mass murdered. I recall no frequent tales of soldiers deliberately slaughtering civilians in any circumstances.
 

And those are only some of the factors that make it non equivalent.

You're delusional if you think they will ever deal with this man again far less recognise grievances which are a pile of shite to begin with.
 

It's a double continent sized country no one has ever managed to invade. Because it's so big. And at this time in history no one is even interested in taking a square inch of their double continent sized country. He on the other hand wants to take even more from others.
 

And I will tell you something else that's delusional. All this shit about NATO rolling up to borders. If that's what a free nation wants that's what they're entitled to. And that's exactly what Sweden and Finland will get double quick. Thanks to Putin.
 

You know why? In this day and age and after what he has done no one gives a flying feck about his imperialist like grievances. No one but you maybe? They're going to take him down not address anything. 

PUTIN HUILO 

FTPutin 

[Unknown user]

On 26/05/2022 at 16:08, ScotsAndy said:

As for the other Poster who found it intellectually stimulating to lable me in Pigeon English as 'Comrade' - I speak very basic Russian so feel free to send me any further insults in the Cyrillic style rather than your school boy attempts picked up from the Daily Mail.  PS  - if you are actually really interested in ordinary Russians views and reactions visit YouTube channel 1420  - a young lad there doing some really insightful interviews with ordinary Russians and for you 'Smithee' there are even subtitles in English !

I didn't find it intellectually stimulating, but it was a convenient way to say my bit. I don't think you're a bot but I do think you're regurgitating a fair bit of Russian propaganda.

 

In this conversation about Russia invading Ukraine, the 'all sides have committed atrocities' line is blatantly unfair. Ukraine's been invaded, they're not responsible for this. You're taking neo nazis as an example now but they're not Ukraine. That whole thing is Russian propaganda of a similar nature to 'all politicians are the same'. It's intended to blur the lines between the 'bad guys' and the 'good guys' - ah they're all bad guys really!

I don't think it's worth remembering that all sides have committed atrocities except in the human context, Russia's actions can't be mitigated like that. Russia are to blame for invading Ukraine.

 

I don't read the daily mail, I'm not likely to either, and I don't need to find people's views. I'm in one group in particular with Russians who are a mixed bag - some with Z avatars, some with Ukraine flags. It doesn't get discussed loads, but some are very much onboard with the western view, others argue that they're swallowing Western propaganda, that Ukraine is a de facto nazi state and that anyway, they've committed atrocities too 

 

I used tovarich because that's the accepted spelling here by the way, I'm not trying to do a definitive cyrillic transposition!

Edited May 28, 2022 by Smithee

[ri Alban]

2 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

 

Can I ask what sort of mentality can try to produce an equivalence to what's happening In Ukraine with Iraq? And that's while agreeing Iraq was a mistake, and also mentioning that in Western circles it's openly debated as a mistake.

And no one is in any trouble for doing so, are they? Like drinking poisoned tea or doing 15 years in the gulag. Are they?

Without wasting time on too much more detail I recall no months long random artillery shelling of Iraqi cities. No civilians merely trying to evacuate being mass murdered. I recall no frequent tales of soldiers deliberately slaughtering civilians in any circumstances.
 

And those are only some of the factors that make it non equivalent.

You're delusional if you think they will ever deal with this man again far less recognise grievances which are a pile of shite to begin with.
 

It's a double continent sized country no one has ever managed to invade. Because it's so big. And at this time in history no one is even interested in taking a square inch of their double continent sized country. He on the other hand wants to take even more from others.
 

And I will tell you something else that's delusional. All this shit about NATO rolling up to borders. If that's what a free nation wants that's what they're entitled to. And that's exactly what Sweden and Finland will get double quick. Thanks to Putin.
 

You know why? In this day and age and after what he has done no one gives a flying feck about his imperialist like grievances. No one but you maybe? They're going to take him down not address anything. 

Oh dear. We're right, you're wrong. The US might not have wanted the country but they sure as hell wanted their oil.  🤔. 

 

 

Blair and Bush should have been jailed for Iraq and Afghanistan, but it's their own court so they decide who is what.  

 

 

Putin will hopefully be dead soon enough and maybe Russia will be a better place. But you keep telling yourself the west are innocent, US/NATO Bot. 👍. 

 

 

 

Oh and what happened to to Dr Kelly, but hey, I'm sure the west don't do things like poison.

[ri Alban]

Mexico is on phone, they'd like the other half of their country back . America hung up.

[Debut 4]

18 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Oh dear. We're right, you're wrong. The US might not have wanted the country but they sure as hell wanted their oil.  🤔. 

 

 

Blair and Bush should have been jailed for Iraq and Afghanistan, but it's their own court so they decide who is what.  

 

 

Putin will hopefully be dead soon enough and maybe Russia will be a better place. But you keep telling yourself the west are innocent, US/NATO Bot. 👍. 

 

 

 

Oh and what happened to to Dr Kelly, but hey, I'm sure the west don't do things like poison.

Is going after guys like Saddam not a good thing?  The very thing you’ve been shouting about the big bad West should be doing to Putin.  

[Jeffros Furios]

4 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Can I ask, were there any excuses for the atrocities if Iraq and Afghanistan? WMD remember that, or the Taliban being blamed for 9/11. The West really need to stop throwing stones.

 

Personally, I hope Ukraine come through this, but Russian grievances must be addressed, like NATO pitching up camp on Russia's border, or we can't moan when Russia or China do the same. Mind Cuba?

Just after 9/11 until it all kicked off in the Donbass  2014 there was a NATO base in Siberia .

[JFK-1]

22 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Oh dear. We're right, you're wrong. The US might not have wanted the country but they sure as hell wanted their oil.  🤔. 

 

 

Blair and Bush should have been jailed for Iraq and Afghanistan, but it's their own court so they decide who is what.  

 

 

Putin will hopefully be dead soon enough and maybe Russia will be a better place. But you keep telling yourself the west are innocent, US/NATO Bot. 👍. 

 

 

 

Oh and what happened to to Dr Kelly, but hey, I'm sure the west don't do things like poison.

 

Once again, read and digest. No one here said the West hadn't made mistakes. I mentioned it's talked about all the time. But it's somethiung ssomeone liker you weants to obsess on.

And I just noticed you're a 911 conspiracy nut too. While that's simple minded at best, it's off the crazy chart in my world. And it's also enlightening.  I will just put you on ignore now. So you can never bother me again with some uninvited rambling pile of crazy.

[ri Alban]

We all want Ukraine to defeat Russia, but if you criticise the west and make a point that Russia needs to be heard, to stop this happening in the future, you're a Russian bot. 

 

 

Anyway, America/Americans should maybe try to fix its/their own violence before pontificating how great it is and what others should act.  I look forward to the reelection of Trump, or some other bam. That'll be fun 👍

 

 

 

 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

On 27/05/2022 at 23:01, ri Alban said:

Can I ask, were there any excuses for the atrocities if Iraq and Afghanistan? WMD remember that, or the Taliban being blamed for 9/11. The West really need to stop throwing stones.

 

Personally, I hope Ukraine come through this, but Russian grievances must be addressed, like NATO pitching up camp on Russia's border, or we can't moan when Russia or China do the same. Mind Cuba?

 

Mate a lot of us threw plenty of metaphorical stones at our own governments at the time (and were ridiculed for it) so I'm going to reserve the right to throw them at Russia now.

 

I would wish exactly the same fates on Putin and Dick Cheney, neither of them pleasant for them.

 

And you mention American violence, the inaction around which is frozen in small part because of Putin's own meddling in our elections to support authoritarian reactionaries like him.

 

[ScotsAndy]

6 hours ago, ri Alban said:

We all want Ukraine to defeat Russia, but if you criticise the west and make a point that Russia needs to be heard, to stop this happening in the future, you're a Russian bot. 

 

 

Anyway, America/Americans should maybe try to fix its/their own violence before pontificating how great it is and what others should act.  I look forward to the reelection of Trump, or some other bam. That'll be fun 👍

 

 

 

 

Absolutely spot on regarding the first point  - its always the easy option to simply label anyone who presents something that does not fit with the narrative you are pushing as some sort of Software Application promoting a version of the truth.  Possibly because those who pursue that path seldom have the depth of knowledge /understanding to present a coherent response or are simply amazed that someone could perhaps see a different angle  - its actually part of the problem in this particular subject as it could be argued that it is the approach the Russian Establishment is taking (Ostrich Head in the Sand approach).

 

Your second points is pretty close to the truth as well !

[Robbies right hand man]

On 28/05/2022 at 05:27, JFK-1 said:

 

Can I ask what sort of mentality can try to produce an equivalence to what's happening In Ukraine with Iraq? And that's while agreeing Iraq was a mistake, and also mentioning that in Western circles it's openly debated as a mistake.

And no one is in any trouble for doing so, are they? Like drinking poisoned tea or doing 15 years in the gulag. Are they?

Without wasting time on too much more detail I recall no months long random artillery shelling of Iraqi cities. No civilians merely trying to evacuate being mass murdered. I recall no frequent tales of soldiers deliberately slaughtering civilians in any circumstances.
 

And those are only some of the factors that make it non equivalent.

You're delusional if you think they will ever deal with this man again far less recognise grievances which are a pile of shite to begin with.
 

It's a double continent sized country no one has ever managed to invade. Because it's so big. And at this time in history no one is even interested in taking a square inch of their double continent sized country. He on the other hand wants to take even more from others.
 

And I will tell you something else that's delusional. All this shit about NATO rolling up to borders. If that's what a free nation wants that's what they're entitled to. And that's exactly what Sweden and Finland will get double quick. Thanks to Putin.
 

You know why? In this day and age and after what he has done no one gives a flying feck about his imperialist like grievances. No one but you maybe? They're going to take him down not address anything. 

1 million + died in Iraq 

[felix]

1 hour ago, Robbies right hand man said:

1 million + died in Iraq 

 

Putin could have adopted shock and awe. Got the job done quicker..

[Cade]

1 hour ago, felix said:

 

Putin could have adopted shock and awe. Got the job done quicker..

 

He tried that.

He fecked it up.

 

[felix]

57 minutes ago, Cade said:

 

He tried that.

He fecked it up.

 

He didn't try that at all.

That's why the casualties are comparatively low.

[Ulysses]

On 25/05/2022 at 19:10, ScotsAndy said:

There are as some people have pointed out faults on all sides and it worth understanding these to get some perspective and understanding of all sides views 

 

Faults on all sides? 

 

Let's say we have a car accident, caused by my dangerous driving, which writes off your car.  Do you?

 

(a) mount an insurance claim to recover the damage and replace the car?

 

(b) get the cops involved so that I'll be charged for my dangerous driving and dealt with in accordance with the law?

 

(c) a combination of (a) and (b)?

 

or...

 

 

(d) assemble an army of fellas and burn my house down, regardless of whether there are people in it or not, while also causing massive disruption to dozens of my neighbours.

 

Faults on all sides?  Yep, sure.  But let's get a sense of perspective, eh?

[Ulysses]

On 28/05/2022 at 06:12, Smithee said:

I didn't find it intellectually stimulating, but it was a convenient way to say my bit. I don't think you're a bot but I do think you're regurgitating a fair bit of Russian propaganda.

 

In this conversation about Russia invading Ukraine, the 'all sides have committed atrocities' line is blatantly unfair. Ukraine's been invaded, they're not responsible for this. You're taking neo nazis as an example now but they're not Ukraine. That whole thing is Russian propaganda of a similar nature to 'all politicians are the same'. It's intended to blur the lines between the 'bad guys' and the 'good guys' - ah they're all bad guys really!

I don't think it's worth remembering that all sides have committed atrocities except in the human context, Russia's actions can't be mitigated like that. Russia are to blame for invading Ukraine.

 

I don't read the daily mail, I'm not likely to either, and I don't need to find people's views. I'm in one group in particular with Russians who are a mixed bag - some with Z avatars, some with Ukraine flags. It doesn't get discussed loads, but some are very much onboard with the western view, others argue that they're swallowing Western propaganda, that Ukraine is a de facto nazi state and that anyway, they've committed atrocities too 

 

I used tovarich because that's the accepted spelling here by the way, I'm not trying to do a definitive cyrillic transposition!

 

 

This "both sides" stuff is intellectually and morally lazy.  As for the "let's hear all sides' views"? 

 

"So, Vladimir, were you feeling sad and upset when you decided to burn the living **** out of a country, create millions of refugees, cause multiples of billions of dollars worth of damage, and generate mayhem for countries around Europe and the wider world?  Are you feeling better now?  Is there some way we can help?"

 

[Unknown user]

22 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

 

This "both sides" stuff is intellectually and morally lazy.  As for the "let's hear all sides' views"? 

 

"So, Vladimir, were you feeling sad and upset when you decided to burn the living **** out of a country, create millions of refugees, cause multiples of billions of dollars worth of damage, and generate mayhem for countries around Europe and the wider world?  Are you feeling better now?  Is there some way we can help?"

 

She was asking for it with what she was wearing, flashing her Donbas everywhere

[Jeffros Furios]

Russia can **** off ! ! 

[graygo]

5 hours ago, Robbies right hand man said:

1 million + died in Iraq 

 

Over 1 million? As a result of the 2003 conflict/invasion/war?

 

Edit: I can see now around 1.2 million. 

 

Edited May 29, 2022 by graygo

[Ulysses]

27 minutes ago, Smithee said:

She was asking for it with what she was wearing, flashing her Donbas everywhere

 

In a nutshell.

[Robbies right hand man]

41 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Over 1 million? As a result of the 2003 conflict/invasion/war?

 

Edit: I can see now around 1.2 million. 

 

Unfortunately it's probably more when you factor in the mess we left Iraq in (that's not even factoring on Afghanistan)

[graygo]

1 hour ago, Robbies right hand man said:

Unfortunately it's probably more when you factor in the mess we left Iraq in (that's not even factoring on Afghanistan)

 

Yes, I was thinking you meant civilians. I know you didn't. To be fair that's a huge number too.

[JFK-1]

12 hours ago, Robbies right hand man said:

1 million + died in Iraq 

 

What are you trying to demonstrate? Are you telling me a million Iraqi civilians died by allied bombardment? And if not, what's your point?

[Taffin]

There's lots of parallels between the Iraq invasion and this imo. Whether people want to deflect away from that or not is their prerogative.

 

Both where unlawful invasions of a sovereign state by other sovereign state(s), based on lies in an attempt to justify the true reason (self interest). Fortunately we're not in the 100s of thousands of civilian deaths yet this time around.

 

 

Russia are still to blame though for this.

Edited May 30, 2022 by Taffin

[ScotsAndy]

12 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

 

This "both sides" stuff is intellectually and morally lazy.  As for the "let's hear all sides' views"? 

 

"So, Vladimir, were you feeling sad and upset when you decided to burn the living **** out of a country, create millions of refugees, cause multiples of billions of dollars worth of damage, and generate mayhem for countries around Europe and the wider world?  Are you feeling better now?  Is there some way we can help?"

 

With respect that view seems very counter intuitive and probably dangerous  - in fact to me not looking at all sides would actually appear to be in your phrase ' intellectually and morally lazy'

 

Surely taking the blinkered approach is part and parcel of the bigger problem  - an example would be the Russian population  - due to the state control of media large swathes (especially the older population) don't get or see both sides of the arguments.  On their part its not intellectually or morally lazy as its being willfully withheld but is shows the impact on understanding and ability to challenge when only one side of an argument is aired and understood. 

 

As for the Car Insurance analogy  - having reflected on that I don't think its me that has lost my sense of perspective.

[Unknown user]

10 minutes ago, ScotsAndy said:

With respect that view seems very counter intuitive and probably dangerous  - in fact to me not looking at all sides would actually appear to be in your phrase ' intellectually and morally lazy'

 

Surely taking the blinkered approach is part and parcel of the bigger problem  - an example would be the Russian population  - due to the state control of media large swathes (especially the older population) don't get or see both sides of the arguments.  On their part its not intellectually or morally lazy as its being willfully withheld but is shows the impact on understanding and ability to challenge when only one side of an argument is aired and understood. 

 

As for the Car Insurance analogy  - having reflected on that I don't think its me that has lost my sense of perspective.

 

We're not talking about the bigger problem though, we're talking about attempts at pinning some of the blame on Ukraine.

 

Now you can get into why there are problems between the two nations, who could have done what better, but fault for the many thousands of dead doesn't lie on both sides. Russia invaded Ukraine.

[ScotsAndy]

2 hours ago, Smithee said:

 

We're not talking about the bigger problem though, we're talking about attempts at pinning some of the blame on Ukraine.

 

Now you can get into why there are problems between the two nations, who could have done what better, but fault for the many thousands of dead doesn't lie on both sides. Russia invaded Ukraine.

Absolutely respect your opinion but I don't share your view. This is not about attempting to pin blame on Ukraine. The invasion is patently an illegal act perpetrated by the Russian Federation and they should take the rap for any war crimes which can be proven (of which I am sure there are a substantial number).  What you can't do is simply make a statement that implies there are no legitimate grounds for looking at the culpability on the Ukrainian side for some frankly pretty horrific acts by certain factions of their society, particuarly back around 2014 and the impact that had on the 'thinking' of the Putin' Regime.  Its not about blame - its about causal effects and how they shape the policies and actions of the various actors in this conflict.

 

Both sides have made mistakes and unfortunately to some extent both sides have been led by the forces of extremism.  Ukraine under Zelensky has definitely moved in the right direction  even though he has a massive internal battle with the more nationalist tendencies there. The Russian Federation has moved totally the wrong way under the autocratic and frankly xenophobic leadership of Putin. 

 

 

[Cade]

Two more Russian colonels killed in action.

 

And some sources think that Putin's sight is failing and he only has a couple years to live.

 

Shame.

[Mikey1874]

It is impossible to say just now but from reports I'd estimate its somewhere between 60,000 and 120,000 deaths in Ukraine so far. Not including Russian troops which the Ukrainians say is over 30,000 dead. 

[Jeffros Furios]

1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

It is impossible to say just now but from reports I'd estimate its somewhere between 60,000 and 120,000 deaths in Ukraine so far. Not including Russian troops which the Ukrainians say is over 30,000 dead. 

Well worth the apologists special operation .

[Mikey1874]

3 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

Well worth the apologists special operation .

 

Credit to the BBC for making a big effort to track down individuals in Russia.

 

 

[Jeffros Furios]

1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Credit to the BBC for making a big effort to track down individuals in Russia.

 

 

Reuters have been getting some criticism but it seems they are part owned by TAAS in Russia .

BBC really need to up thier game as some of thier online pieces are terrible .

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

16 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

It is impossible to say just now but from reports I'd estimate its somewhere between 60,000 and 120,000 deaths in Ukraine so far. Not including Russian troops which the Ukrainians say is over 30,000 dead. 

 

Heard something about that the Russians had increased some age limit for troops or something like that, must be running low on canon fodder.

[Shooter McGavin]

Zelenskyy claiming Russia now controls about 20% of Ukraine.

 

Deeply worrying.

[Cade]

24 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

 Russia now controls about 20% of a blasted wasteland with no economic value.

 

 

 

Fixed that for you

[Ulysses]

On 30/05/2022 at 12:28, ScotsAndy said:

What you can't do is simply make a statement that implies there are no legitimate grounds for looking at the culpability on the Ukrainian side for some frankly pretty horrific acts by certain factions of their society, particuarly back around 2014 and the impact that had on the 'thinking' of the Putin' Regime.  Its not about blame - its about causal effects and how they shape the policies and actions of the various actors in this conflict.

 

 

Please take this question in the spirit it's intended.

 

Were you dropped on your head as a a child?

[Ulysses]

Just now, Ulysses said:

 

Please take this question in the spirit it's intended.

 

Were you dropped on your head as a a child?

 

Or is there some other reason why your critical faculties seem to be switched off?

 

I don't give a **** what some society might or might not have done well or badly - that does not imply any culpability for being invaded by a neighbour, especially a fascist ethno-nationalist neighbour.

 

Away and catch yourself on.

[Ulysses]

**** it, I'm annoyed at myself for this.

 

Apologies, @ScotsAndy.  That post was mean-spirited of me, and I shouldn't have said it.

[Lone Striker]

20 hours ago, Shooter McGavin said:

Zelenskyy claiming Russia now controls about 20% of Ukraine.

 

Deeply worrying.

Yet (from what I can understand via  news reports), the majority of that 20% contains the pro-Russian people that Putin is "liberating" by bombarding their towns with little or no regard to civilian casualties.   

 

A scorched earth policy in war is normally a last resort tactic by the retreating defending side - but a strangely similar approach seems to be the tactic of the attacking side here.

 

 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

On 30/05/2022 at 12:28, ScotsAndy said:

Absolutely respect your opinion but I don't share your view. This is not about attempting to pin blame on Ukraine. The invasion is patently an illegal act perpetrated by the Russian Federation and they should take the rap for any war crimes which can be proven (of which I am sure there are a substantial number).  What you can't do is simply make a statement that implies there are no legitimate grounds for looking at the culpability on the Ukrainian side for some frankly pretty horrific acts by certain factions of their society, particuarly back around 2014 and the impact that had on the 'thinking' of the Putin' Regime.  Its not about blame - its about causal effects and how they shape the policies and actions of the various actors in this conflict.

 

Both sides have made mistakes and unfortunately to some extent both sides have been led by the forces of extremism.  Ukraine under Zelensky has definitely moved in the right direction  even though he has a massive internal battle with the more nationalist tendencies there. The Russian Federation has moved totally the wrong way under the autocratic and frankly xenophobic leadership of Putin. 

 

 

 

another good post from you mate

 

I’ve seen a few videos in line with this thinking - presentations from experts in the subject with no apparent leanings towards Russia in fact very critical of Russia

 

still if you want the definitive analysis of the situation it’s on jkb

 

 

 

 

 

[Cade]

Yes, Ukraine has been in a civil war since 2014.

And yes, civil wars are never "civil" and atrocities on both sides are common.

 

No, that does in no way give any excuse or reason for Russia to be invading and bombing eastern Ukraine back to the stone age, abducting tens of thousands of people and relocating them to eastern Russia, conducting mass murders of civilians, conducting widespread looting and using rape as a weapon of war.

 

 

[Footballfirst]

2 hours ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

another good post from you mate

 

I’ve seen a few videos in line with this thinking - presentations from experts in the subject with no apparent leanings towards Russia in fact very critical of Russia

 

still if you want the definitive analysis of the situation it’s on jkb

 

Yes. He got a couple of statements in his post that were absolutely spot on.

 

On 30/05/2022 at 12:28, ScotsAndy said:

The invasion is patently an illegal act perpetrated by the Russian Federation and they should take the rap for any war crimes which can be proven (of which I am sure there are a substantial number). 

 

The Russian Federation has moved totally the wrong way under the autocratic and frankly xenophobic leadership of Putin. 

 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

 

Yes. He got a couple of statements in his post that were absolutely spot on.

 

 

Not many would wholly disagree with that I wouldn’t have thought

 

as I say some good information pre 2014 - present day on the complex situation from people who have studied and lectured on this as their day job - plenty out there but also some very definitive stuff from the insurance clerks accountants and window cleaners on here 

 

get the woolly background stuff from the ‘experts’ get the answers here  👌

 

 

 

 

[il Duce McTarkin]

19 hours ago, Ulysses said:

**** it, I'm annoyed at myself for this.

 

Apologies, @ScotsAndy.  That post was mean-spirited of me, and I shouldn't have said it.

 

[il Duce McTarkin]

5 hours ago, Cade said:

 

No, that does in no way give any excuse or reason for Russia to be invading and bombing eastern Ukraine back to the stone age, abducting tens of thousands of people and relocating them to eastern Russia, conducting mass murders of civilians, conducting widespread looting and using rape as a weapon of war.

 

 

 

Good rant, but nobody has been arguing the opposite (apart from maybe cocobot mug).

 

 

Edited June 5, 2022 by Dirk McClaymore

[Ulysses]

7 hours ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

another good post from you mate

 

I’ve seen a few videos in line with this thinking - presentations from experts in the subject with no apparent leanings towards Russia in fact very critical of Russia

 

still if you want the definitive analysis of the situation it’s on jkb

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've said it before (when booting cocobot into orbit) and I'll say it again.  There is no equivalence whatsoever between getting some stuff wrong in your society and invading, burning down, and ruining the society and economy of another country.

 

Cop yourself on, eh?

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

1 hour ago, Ulysses said:

 

I've said it before (when booting cocobot into orbit) and I'll say it again.  There is no equivalence whatsoever between getting some stuff wrong in your society and invading, burning down, and ruining the society and economy of another country.

 

Cop yourself on, eh?

As Dirk has said above no-one with the possible exception of coconut Doug is likely to be making that equivalence - certainly not the post I quoted but it requires a wee bit of clear thinking to see that so either youre not seeing it or your reply is a bit irrelevant to my post and the post I quoted

 

 

Edited June 5, 2022 by MoncurMacdonaldMercer

[Ulysses]

1 hour ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

As Dirk has said above no-one with the possible exception of coconut Doug is likely to be making that equivalence - certainly not the post I quoted but it requires a wee bit of clear thinking to see that so either youre not seeing it or your reply is a bit irrelevant to my post and the post I quoted

 

 

 

If there's no equivalence being made then it's simply not relevant to the thread.  In which case fair enough - but shouldn't the point be made on some other thread?   

[Ked]

The French president has said we have to find a way of not humiliating Russia.

What's he on about and isn't it appeasement?