Russia Invades Ukraine

[XB52]

15 hours ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

People still supporting Ukraine atn, but if Putin was to offer cheap energy to UK, it would be interesting to see if that changed, especially when winter kicks in and heating goes on.

Supporting Ukraine or cheaper gas leaving more money in your pocket would be interesting quandary for consumer.

Supporting country hundreds of miles away while own citizens struggle on themselves could change minds.

Spoken like a true blue tory. 

[Malinga the Swinga]

2 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Spoken like a true blue tory. 

Give it a break. I never suggested I backed Putin. Simply put, will people still back sanctions when they themselves start to suffer through increased energy costs.

It's a valid question.

 

[Boab]

8 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Spoken like a true blue tory. 

I'm not so sure about that.

Of course it isn't as simple as saying the £1B we have given them in weapons couldn't be used to offset struggling families here, but in the coming years/decades, as things get tougher, as they no doubt will, people will think more insular in how we commit internationally with others.

There is a rise in nationalistic parties in Europe and I fear that will continue in this century. 

The affects of this conflict will be far reaching.

 

[Mikey1874]

13 minutes ago, Boab said:

I'm not so sure about that.

Of course it isn't as simple as saying the £1B we have given them in weapons couldn't be used to offset struggling families here, but in the coming years/decades, as things get tougher, as they no doubt will, people will think more insular in how we commit internationally with others.

There is a rise in nationalistic parties in Europe and I fear that will continue in this century. 

The affects of this conflict will be far reaching.

 

 

Indeed. 

 

Britain supporting Ukraine is a strategic decision long in the making.

 

It for example links to previous action to protect Bosnia and Kosovo. A clear Russian victory opens up that whole area again to instability. 

Edited June 21, 2022 by Mikey1874

[Malinga the Swinga]

33 minutes ago, Boab said:

I'm not so sure about that.

Of course it isn't as simple as saying the £1B we have given them in weapons couldn't be used to offset struggling families here, but in the coming years/decades, as things get tougher, as they no doubt will, people will think more insular in how we commit internationally with others.

There is a rise in nationalistic parties in Europe and I fear that will continue in this century. 

The affects of this conflict will be far reaching.

 

Is what I thought I was saying but obviously failed to.

[XB52]

If people put money before lives then that's up to them and it is the tory mantra. 

[Sawdust Caesar]

 

If this is accurate then he is the real richest man in the world.

[Mikey1874]

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

On 20/06/2022 at 11:41, escobri said:

Wish it was like that when I was last in Tenerife, loads of fat Russians about, rude pricks were worse than the weegies.

 

Drunk arrogant rude pricks, that's been my experience of Russians.  Didn't have any time for them before all of this, I have even less now.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

22 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

 

What a shame if a large piece of space junk fell on it.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 hour ago, Sawdust Caesar said:

 

If this is accurate then he is the real richest man in the world.

 

And I'd bet that very few Russians will be aware that their gorious leader has been robbing them blind for years.

[il Duce McTarkin]

18 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Drunk arrogant rude pricks, that's been my experience of Russians.  Didn't have any time for them before all of this, I have even less now.

 

I've worked with loads, and they're not all like that. Some proper good guys, but the majority have been over muscled, arrogant, rude, aggressive, racist, homophobic, alpha-male, pricks, with a potato for a head. 

It must be a societal thing, but a lot of them have an in-built requirement to project an intimidating presence in their posture and speech at all times. It's what real men do, no? 

 

My experience isn't from a broad cross section, though, so the type I've encountered is most definately skewed. 

Edited June 21, 2022 by Dirk McClaymore

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

4 hours ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Give it a break. I never suggested I backed Putin. Simply put, will people still back sanctions when they themselves start to suffer through increased energy costs.

It's a valid question.

 

they don’t like posts like this round these parts - forces them to think

 

although as we’ve seen already some still manage to override that compulsion 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

2 hours ago, XB52 said:

If people put money before lives then that's up to them and it is the tory mantra. 

 

people put money before lives everyday otherwise they wouldn’t buy any goods from any company who was involved in practices that (indirectly at least) cost lives - so pretty much wouldn’t buy any goods

 

 

[Cade]

Yes, sanctions work both ways.

But any effect of the sanctions we've slapped on Russia can and should be mitigated by moving our economy away from Russian oil, gas, grains and other goods. Especially their dodgy money.

They need us (and by that I mean The West) far more than we need them.

 

Times are hard in the UK, but that's not because of our Russia sanctions.

That's because of twelve years of mismanagement by a kleptocratic government.

 

Dropping the Russia sanctions won't help anything. 

The pressure on Russia needs to be kept up, or even increased.

Most of the sanctions should be permanent.

[ri Alban]

20 hours ago, Jeffros Furios said:

Russians *leaders are subhuman scum .

👍Be careful, you'll end up being classed xenophobic or racist. But we know what you meant .

 

*Word added.

Edited June 21, 2022 by ri Alban

[Malinga the Swinga]

1 hour ago, Cade said:

Yes, sanctions work both ways.

But any effect of the sanctions we've slapped on Russia can and should be mitigated by moving our economy away from Russian oil, gas, grains and other goods. Especially their dodgy money.

They need us (and by that I mean The West) far more than we need them.

 

Times are hard in the UK, but that's not because of our Russia sanctions.

That's because of twelve years of mismanagement by a kleptocratic government.

 

Dropping the Russia sanctions won't help anything. 

The pressure on Russia needs to be kept up, or even increased.

Most of the sanctions should be permanent.

Meanwhile India, a country we sent £55m of aid to last year, is buying up Russian oil in ever increasing amounts, taking advantage of the cheap price.

We can't keep pressure on when other countries are providing a valve to release said pressure.

Keep getting hysterical though if it makes you feel special.

 

[Cade]

Ukraine takes delivery of 12 Panzerhaubitze 2000 self-propelled 155mm artillery (7 from Germany, 5 from Netherlands).

These things have a range of 25 miles.

 

 

Plenty other nations are also sending Ukraine many more self propelled artillery pieces like these.

This is the kind of heavy weapons they're going to need for this phase of the war.

The man-portable anti-tank missiles won't cut it in the pitched battles we're seeing now.

Edited June 21, 2022 by Cade

[Ked]

14 minutes ago, Cade said:

Ukraine takes delivery of 12 Panzerhaubitze 2000 self-propelled 155mm artillery (7 from Germany, 5 from Netherlands).

These things have a range of 25 miles.

 

 

Plenty other nations are also sending Ukraine many more self propelled artillery pieces like these.

This is the kind of heavy weapons they're going to need for this phase of the war.

The man-portable anti-tank missiles won't cut it in the pitched battles we're seeing now.

You have to at least raise your eyebrows when Germany supplies one side with weaponry and finances the other to the tune of billions.

 

[Cade]

As with (mostly) all European nations, Germany is divesting away from Russian business and seeking alternate suppliers of gas, oil and other products.

 

 

Also today, Ukraine shelled the shite out of Snake Island and killed hundreds of Russian occupiers.

[Ked]

2 minutes ago, Cade said:

As with (mostly) all European nations, Germany is divesting away from Russian business and seeking alternate suppliers of gas, oil and other products.

 

 

Also today, Ukraine shelled the shite out of Snake Island and killed hundreds of Russian occupiers.

I'm aware of the difficulties .

It does make for a very confusing conflict which has no clear diplomatic solution.

Even if Ukraine continues to be successful militarily.

For the nations that rely on Russian fuel they're a long way of transition.

Worryingly China and India are increasing imports of fuel.

The worry has to be concession to Russian aggression from Europe.

And how that may galvanise Chinese ambition.

 

[il Duce McTarkin]

11 minutes ago, Ked said:

 

The worry has to be concession to Russian aggression from Europe.

And how that may galvanise Chinese ambition.

 

 

Chinese ambition is Chinese ambition and doesn't need galvanised. The only thing that the was in Ukraine may change is their timeline. 

Russia is also afraid of Chinese ambitions in the east. 

[Shanks said no]

1 hour ago, Cade said:

Ukraine takes delivery of 12 Panzerhaubitze 2000 self-propelled 155mm artillery (7 from Germany, 5 from Netherlands).

These things have a range of 25 miles.

 

 

Plenty other nations are also sending Ukraine many more self propelled artillery pieces like these.

This is the kind of heavy weapons they're going to need for this phase of the war.

The man-portable anti-tank missiles won't cut it in the pitched battles we're seeing now.

 

Are they paying for all this kit or is it a gift?

[Ked]

45 minutes ago, Dirk McClaymore said:

 

Chinese ambition is Chinese ambition and doesn't need galvanised. The only thing that the was in Ukraine may change is their timeline. 

Russia is also afraid of Chinese ambitions in the east. 

All true.

 

 

[Cade]

20 minutes ago, The Frenchman Returns said:

 

Are they paying for all this kit or is it a gift?

 

Paid for.

They've put in orders with various European nations for similar kit.

Even went so far as to try to buy up 100 of them from Germany. Germany only has 110 in total.

 

30 of these from the Czechs

 

42 of these from the UK and Norway

 

18 of these from Poland, with 60 more on the way

 

8 of these from Slovakia

 

They've got 500-ish of older Soviet era ones already.

The new ones are better.

Edited June 21, 2022 by Cade

[Pap]

I honestly dont think it will be enough. The manpower of Ukraine's army as well as their morale must be taking a serious dunt. As much as i want Ukraine to win, i'm starting to think it wont happen.

[JFK-1]

I think this is worse than the cold war. The cold war wasn't so confrontational as this the vast majority of the time, this is going to be perpetually all out confrontational. And the cold war didn't have the same effect on the economy this does.

All of this shit could be our new normal for the duration of this regime, and the one that follows it even if Putin were out of the picture. He will already have lined up someone just like him.

We could be looking at decades unless there's some sort of Soviet style collapse or perhaps revolution. I don't think even the army is behind Putin.

[Cade]

Ukraine to be formally granted "EU candidate" status later today.

And Moldova, too.

 

Sweden and Finland have already applied to join NATO.

 

Strategically, Russia have blundered bigtime.

And they've lost almost 1/3 of their invasion force.

Edited June 23, 2022 by Cade

[Japan Jambo]

On 21/06/2022 at 23:51, jonesy said:

Wouldn't be investing in the Taipei buy-to-let market anytime soon, that's for sure.

 

[Cade]

Ukraine takes delivery of HIMARS missile launcher platforms from the USA.

Viable against troops, vehicles and structures, with a range from 52miles for anti-personnel to 190miles for other warheads.

 

 

Ukrainian troops are pulling back from what's left of the last two major cities in the Donbas area.

With the longer range stuff being delivered to them this week they'll not have to go face to face with Ivan any more, and can fight in a more stand-off manner.

[Pap]

America will be quietly loving this. Getting to fight Russia in a proxy war for peanuts (in comparison to an actual war) while having no US fatalities all while weakening the hell out of Russia for a very long time. Having Sweden & Finland possibly joining NATO as well.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

15 minutes ago, Pap said:

America will be quietly loving this. Getting to fight Russia in a proxy war for peanuts (in comparison to an actual war) while having no US fatalities all while weakening the hell out of Russia for a very long time. Having Sweden & Finland possibly joining NATO as well.

 

China will be loving it even more, watching Russia becoming weaker and weaker by the day......and it didn't have to lift a finger to achieve it.

[ri Alban]

Ukraine accepted into the EU.

[SectionDJambo]

33 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Ukraine accepted into the EU.

They’re clearly happy to take Johnson’s weapons but not his advice on trading opportunities.

A bit ironic that while the UK leaves the EU, other countries are keen to join.

No doubt the narrative will eventually be that we left so we didn’t have to subsidise these two countries, one of which produced and exported much of the world’s grain before Putin’s war.

[Mikey1874]

1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

Ukraine accepted into the EU.

 

 

 

[Ked]

42 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

They’re clearly happy to take Johnson’s weapons but not his advice on trading opportunities.

A bit ironic that while the UK leaves the EU, other countries are keen to join.

No doubt the narrative will eventually be that we left so we didn’t have to subsidise these two countries, one of which produced and exported much of the world’s grain before Putin’s war.

Just a bit stretched there I'd suggest.

Considering Russias war machine is financed albeit grudgingly by our necessity for its fuel.

And not forgetting German and French supplies of arms to Russia bypassing the EU embargo months leading up to the invasion.

I'm all for criticising the current Government but like I say a stretch.

[SectionDJambo]

23 minutes ago, Ked said:

Just a bit stretched there I'd suggest.

Considering Russias war machine is financed albeit grudgingly by our necessity for its fuel.

And not forgetting German and French supplies of arms to Russia bypassing the EU embargo months leading up to the invasion.

I'm all for criticising the current Government but like I say a stretch.

Well, we keep hearing that Johnson is the main man for Zelensky. Yet, Zelensky is pushing to join a trading block that Johnson had an “oven ready” deal to finalise leaving, after being to the forefront of the Leave campaign.

It has to be just a wee bit uncomfortable for Johnson that his new mate is desperate to join the pesky EU. It’s certainly a bit strange and must rankle a bit with the ERG boys.

[Ked]

1 minute ago, SectionDJambo said:

Well, we keep hearing that Johnson is the main man for Zelensky. Yet, Zelensky is pushing to join a trading block that Johnson had an “oven ready” deal to finalise leaving, after being to the forefront of the Leave campaign.

It has to be just a wee bit uncomfortable for Johnson that his new mate is desperate to join the pesky EU. It’s certainly a bit strange and must rankle a bit with the ERG boys.

Under the circumstances I think they'd cut Ukraine some slack.

I'd suggest it's a bit more awkward that much of Europe is giving hundreds of millions that subsequently bankroll Russia.

Johnson is walking the green mile.

Brexit has been bad for business.

It's really small potatoes buddy.

 

[Mikey1874]

Another chapter in Ukrainian resistance 

 

 

[Libertarian]

2 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

Another chapter in Ukrainian resistance 

 

The first casualty of war is the truth 

 

[Libertarian]

23 hours ago, SectionDJambo said:

They’re clearly happy to take Johnson’s weapons but not his advice on trading opportunities.

A bit ironic that while the UK leaves the EU, other countries are keen to join.

No doubt the narrative will eventually be that we left so we didn’t have to subsidise these two countries, one of which produced and exported much of the world’s grain before Putin’s war.

Do you think that Ukraine will still exist when it comes time to be admitted to the EU? Come to think of it will the EU still exist?

[Libertarian]

On 22/06/2022 at 01:12, Pap said:

I honestly dont think it will be enough. The manpower of Ukraine's army as well as their morale must be taking a serious dunt. As much as i want Ukraine to win, i'm starting to think it wont happen.

I think that you may well be correct. Ukraine is not going to win. The best that they can hope for is that there still is a country called Ukraine by the time this is all over. They should have become a neutral buffer state when they had the chance.

[Jeffros Furios]

19 minutes ago, Libertarian said:

I think that you may well be correct. Ukraine is not going to win. The best that they can hope for is that there still is a country called Ukraine by the time this is all over. They should have become a neutral buffer state when they had the chance.

Russia ain't going to win , your lot are a bunch of savage murdering raping scum .

Personally I'd bomb the Crimea and kill every Russian pig .

[Malinga the Swinga]

21 minutes ago, Libertarian said:

I think that you may well be correct. Ukraine is not going to win. The best that they can hope for is that there still is a country called Ukraine by the time this is all over. They should have become a neutral buffer state when they had the chance.

Why should they be forced into a direction they didn't want? Not their issue that a psycho dictator wants to create a legacy.

 

[Malinga the Swinga]

22 hours ago, SectionDJambo said:

Well, we keep hearing that Johnson is the main man for Zelensky. Yet, Zelensky is pushing to join a trading block that Johnson had an “oven ready” deal to finalise leaving, after being to the forefront of the Leave campaign.

It has to be just a wee bit uncomfortable for Johnson that his new mate is desperate to join the pesky EU. It’s certainly a bit strange and must rankle a bit with the ERG boys.

Yet Zelensky himself has thanked Boris for UK government help. Yet the Ukrainian people believe UK at front of efforts to help them.

It must really rankle with you that Ukraine does realise what UK has done for them at this time.

I doubt the ERG boys give a **** if Ukraine applied to join EU, not a single ****.

[Libertarian]

5 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

Russia ain't going to win , your lot are a bunch of savage murdering raping scum .

Personally I'd bomb the Crimea and kill every Russian pig .

Good for you 

[Libertarian]

5 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Why should they be forced into a direction they didn't want? Not their issue that a psycho dictator wants to create a legacy.

 

Minsk I & Minsk II. Look them up.

[Jeffros Furios]

1 minute ago, Libertarian said:

Good for you 

You posted at the start of the war that Ukraine would deserve what was coming ,

Does that include bombing, thieving, raping , child abuse , abduction , torture and murder .

You had the nerve to call Ukrainian nazis when it's your Russian filth that are the nazis .

Will you apologise ? 

[Libertarian]

2 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

You posted at the start of the war that Ukraine would deserve what was coming ,

Does that include bombing, thieving, raping , child abuse , abduction , torture and murder .

You had the nerve to call Ukrainian nazis when it's your Russian filth that are the nazis .

Will you apologise ? 

No

[Jeffros Furios]

Just now, Libertarian said:

No

No surprise to see you still backing the nazis , do you have a Wagner patch ?