Jump to content

Should Scotland be an independent country?


Alex Kintner
 Share

Should Scotland be an independent country?  

238 members have voted

  1. 1. Should Scotland be an independent country?

    • Yes
      161
    • No
      68
    • Don’t know/ Abstain/ Spoil ballot
      9


Recommended Posts

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

I picked up on your snidey attempt at painting the independence movement as being based on racism, yes.

 

 

i don't think it is based on racism, that would be as absurd to suggest voting for Brexit was also.  There is racist undercurrents throughout both though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 478
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • i8hibsh

    33

  • Smithee

    57

  • Alex Kintner

    26

  • JimmyCant

    28

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

1 minute ago, JimmyCant said:

Scotland voted remain. England voted Leave. We had to leave against our democratic will. That’s the disgrace here.

 

 

You seem to have missed a quite pertinent point.  A few years before this Scotland voted to not be seperated in votes but to be included as one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

manaliveits105

Come ahead anytime ya fearties 

the good Scottish people will send you packing once again 

 

No deficit 

use sterling 

get straight into eu 

😜🤪🤣🤣🤣

1E6396B9-0F63-49AD-9EEA-FA58F03F95EE.jpeg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Salmond's deep infatuation with Norway was nothing short of creepy.

 

I was in Oslo a few years back and being the sociable person I am, I chewed the fat in many a bar with many a local.  They are absolutely dumbfounded with the SNPs love in with them and why they have Norway on such a high pedestal.  The only people constantly signing it's praises are those who are not Norwegian.

 

It is a very fine country but it should be no 'benchmark' for others.  Norway has the issues most countries face and it's taxation system is truly unfair to most. 

 

A small point though, I know it is just a small matter but Norway never inherited up to 300 billion debt when they started - we would be.  Oh and another small point....Norway had the sunny days of oil - those sunny days are long gone.

 

Scotland will never be Norway, we are Scotland.  We have too much public sector workers to start a fresh, riddled with debt.  We have too much high crime rates (probably England's fault) and too many people are workshy in this country.

You should do some research on what Norway did with their oil resources and revenues therefrom and compare it with what the UK did.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

i don't think it is based on racism, that would be as absurd to suggest voting for Brexit was also.  There is racist undercurrents throughout both though.

 

It's easy to just lazily attack people's views though, forget your hot take on why people do what they do for now.

 

Why should Scotland not be independent?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

You seem to have missed a quite pertinent point.  A few years before this Scotland voted to not be seperated in votes but to be included as one.

Yes and I recall us being told it was the only way to remain in the EU. That worked out well for us didnt it ? Not one single mention last time that an EU leave/remain referendum would be held within 2 years despite the fact that Farage already had his claws into Cameron and quickly bullied him into it. Cameron who never read the room UKIP were sitting in and still sits in a darkened room thinking ‘how the feck did I let  it happen’

Edited by JimmyCant
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

It's easy to just lazily attack people's views though, forget your hot take on why people do what they do for now.

 

Why should Scotland not be independent?

 

 

I have my vote and you have yours Smithee and we both deserve them.  I am sure neither of us will argue on that point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Salmond's deep infatuation with Norway was nothing short of creepy.

 

I was in Oslo a few years back and being the sociable person I am, I chewed the fat in many a bar with many a local.  They are absolutely dumbfounded with the SNPs love in with them and why they have Norway on such a high pedestal.  The only people constantly signing it's praises are those who are not Norwegian.

 

It is a very fine country but it should be no 'benchmark' for others.  Norway has the issues most countries face and it's taxation system is truly unfair to most. 

 

A small point though, I know it is just a small matter but Norway never inherited up to 300 billion debt when they started - we would be.  Oh and another small point....Norway had the sunny days of oil - those sunny days are long gone.

 

Scotland will never be Norway, we are Scotland.  We have too much public sector workers to start a fresh, riddled with debt.  We have too much high crime rates (probably England's fault) and too many people are workshy in this country.

 

If I lived in Odlo I'd  vote to Leave Norway if slavering wee racist fantasists like you were creeping about the bars and chewing the fat with the locals. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

I have my vote and you have yours Smithee and we both deserve them.  I am sure neither of us will argue on that point.

 

So why should Scotland not be independent?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Come ahead anytime ya fearties 

the good Scottish people will send you packing once again 

 

No deficit 

use sterling 

get straight into eu 

😜🤪🤣🤣🤣

1E6396B9-0F63-49AD-9EEA-FA58F03F95EE.jpeg

 

 

Who is that? Stunning.   She is no bad either.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Smithee said:

 

So why should Scotland not be independent?

 

 

I have pretty much covered it but here is a quick answer.  I can only speak for me when I vote and independence is simply not important to me.  We probably all vote for the same reasons, this being the best for our country.  We just see what is best very differently.

 

And I re-itterate - A Yes vote will not make Scotland Independent.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

I have pretty much covered it but here is a quick answer.  I can only speak for me when I vote and independence is simply not important to me.  We probably all vote for the same reasons, this being the best for our country.  We just see what is best very differently.

 

And I re-itterate - A Yes vote will not make Scotland Independent.  

 

So you can't state a single good reason that Scotland shouldn't be independent.

Noted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Who is that? Stunning.   She is no bad either.

Finger on the pulse of current affairs as usual I8 ? ‘She’ and her movie haven’t been off the news all week.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maroon Sailor
23 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Scotland voted remain. England voted Leave. We had to leave against our democratic will. That’s the disgrace here.

 

Scotland's vote was part of the UK vote.

 

Scotland didn't vote to remain. 63 per cent of those who voted did.

 

Like asking 10 people what they prefer. 6 want one thing and 4 want the other, then saying everybody wanted the same thing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

Scotland's vote was part of the UK vote.

 

Scotland didn't vote to remain. 63 per cent of those who voted did.

 

Like asking 10 people what they prefer. 6 want one thing and 4 want the other, then saying everybody wanted the same thing.

If 63% of Scots mark YES on the ballot paper, will Scotland as a whole become independent as a result ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maroon Sailor
Just now, JimmyCant said:

If 63% of Scots mark YES on the ballot paper, will Scotland as a whole become independent as a result ?

 

Scots ?

 

Are you forgetting about the other nationalities that have a say on Scotland's future ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maroon Sailor
5 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

If 63% of Scots mark YES on the ballot paper, will Scotland as a whole become independent as a result ?

 

If 52% marked NO on the ballet paper, will Scotland as a whole accept the result ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

Scots ?

 

Are you forgetting about the other nationalities that have a say on Scotland's future ?

Pedantry. The last resort of a lost argument

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maroon Sailor
3 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Pedantry. The last resort of a lost argument

 

What argument ?

 

It's a fact that Scots who live outwith Scotland can't vote on the future of their country but people who were not born in Scotland can.

 

Edited by Maroon Sailor
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

If 52% marked NO on the ballet paper, will Scotland as a whole accept the result ?

Absolutely. Until there is another material change that might change things and make independence desirable. It will NEVER be completely off the table, although failure this time takes it back at least a generation IMO

Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

You seem to have missed a quite pertinent point.  A few years before this Scotland voted to not be seperated in votes but to be included as one.

 

We're on different sides of the debate on this in terms of what we want but what you've said here is spot on and the reluctance of people to accept it turns me off to the independence 'movement' whilst still being in favour of it myself.

 

Scotland didn't vote on Brexit as it wasn't a member of the EU and as such couldn't leave, even if it wanted to without first leaving the UK. The UK populace voted on it, of which Scotland is a constituent part of as a result of voting to remain as such in 2014.

 

Yes, all those who voted remain where taken out against their will but that applies to everyone who voted Remain right across the UK.

Edited by Taffin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maroon Sailor
1 minute ago, JimmyCant said:

Absolutely. Until there is another material change that might change things and make independence desirable. It will NEVER be completely off the table, although failure this time takes it back at least a generation IMO

 

Correct

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

What argument ?

 

It's a fact that Scots who live outwith Scotland can't vote on the future of their country but people who were not born in Scotland can.

 

What's the problem with that though?

 

That right there is the main argument for independence.

 

I really don't think anyone that lives outside a country should have a say in how it's governed.

Edited by Longbaws
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, XB52 said:

It has been answered numerous times but that means nothing to the unionists. The stated position is to start by using sterling and then, in the medium term, move to our own Scottish currency. Unionists repeating over and over again that there is no answer to the currency issue is just lies

I prefer the its Englands currency you can’t have it. 🙈

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ainsley Harriott
20 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

If 52% marked NO on the ballet paper, will Scotland as a whole accept the result ?

They didn't the last time did they

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Taffin said:

 

I think the under 24s would vote for it now.

 

Some genuinely believed the stuff about it being the only way to stay in the EU (which was true for a short period of time) so voted to protect their European citizenship. Now that's gone and independence is the best way back in I think they'll have changed. That's the under 24s in 2014, who are now not necessarily the same people. The current under 24s may be swayed by something totally different as they won't have had such a great experience of what being in the EU brought like those a decade older.

 

It won't happen though, if it's offered up people will bottle it again. Then moan about Westminster and the will of the people.

 

I'm torn on it these days. Ideologically I'm 100% behind it, but I'm not sure you can thrive as an independent country where nearly half the people in it either don't believe it should be independent or are too afraid of the unknown. I reckon it would be a disaster.

Correct 

3 hours ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

I think it is time this lazy racist and xenephobe chat gets put to bed. It is painful. We need to have mature debate about immigration. It is not going away and it is a huge deal. You really think that 18 million (or whatever it was) racists came out to vote that day.

 

Your comment about it being due to "racist English" is infact highly racist. What a shocking thing to say.

👍

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

What argument ?

 

It's a fact that Scots who live outwith Scotland can't vote on the future of their country but people who were not born in Scotland can.

 

I think that everyone who lives in Scotland and contributes to it should be allowed to vote on its future. Scots who live abroad but still have financial ties and commitments here that net contribute ? I can see an argument for them having a vote too. People coincidentally born here but who have no actual vested interest here - No vote IMO

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

They didn't the last time did they

We vote for a change of government every 4 years and we accept the government we get for 4 years. Voting for a change of constitution every ten years whilst it’s still a live issue (and it is for now) isn’t an issue anyone should be bothered by. Voting and taking part in the debate isn’t compulsory so it’s not inconvenient. Voting No will always be an option. If we vote No again it’s dead in the water for at least 30 years IMO. Voting no will, in my opinion, throw Scotland into years of political turmoil as the SNP will disappear like snow off a dyke and the void filled by god knows what

Edited by JimmyCant
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nucky Thompson
13 hours ago, XB52 said:

It has been answered numerous times but that means nothing to the unionists. The stated position is to start by using sterling and then, in the medium term, move to our own Scottish currency. Unionists repeating over and over again that there is no answer to the currency issue is just lies

Aye, it's going to be that simple :rofl:

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Aye, it's going to be that simple :rofl:

 

All other countries have managed it at some point. Why couldn't Scotland?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Aye, it's going to be that simple :rofl:

 

Typical unionist. Called out once again for lying through your teeth and all you have is a daft wee emoji. What a saddo

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nucky Thompson
18 minutes ago, sadj said:

I prefer the its Englands currency you can’t have it. 🙈

What happens if there's another financial crisis or pandemic? 

Is Scotland going to start printing more pounds to get out of trouble?

Central banks control currency and they only have the power to expand the money supply to stimulate the economy 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nucky Thompson
2 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Typical unionist. Called out once again for lying through your teeth and all you have is a daft wee emoji. What a saddo

Put forward the argument for currency then instead of daft wee unionist digs.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ainsley Harriott
17 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

We vote for a change of government every 4 years and we accept the government we get for 4 years. Voting for a change of constitution every ten years whilst it’s still a live issue (and it is for now) isn’t an issue anyone should be bothered by. Voting and taking part in the debate isn’t compulsory so it’s not inconvenient. Voting No will always be an option. If we vote No again it’s dead in the water for at least 30 years IMO. Voting no will, in my opinion, throw Scotland into years of political turmoil as the SNP will disappear like snow off a dyke and the void filled by god knows what

I don't think having a vote on major constitutional change every 10 years is particularly good for economic growth and prosperity. The uncertainty floating around is probably why Scotland has experienced slower economical growth than the rest of the UK. 

 

However the thought of the SNP disappearing would fill me with joy. Imagine we could get a government that focussed on important issues as apposed to freebies to keep their independence dream alive.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ainsley Harriott
31 minutes ago, sadj said:

I prefer the its Englands currency you can’t have it. 🙈

Examples of counties without their own currency. 

 

Ecuador, East Timor, El Salvador, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Palau and Zimbabwe. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Alex Kintner said:


Thanks. I did notice a poll last week being criticised for rephrasing it as leave/remain. It would be difficult to find a totally neutral way of expressing the question. The way it was in 2014 seemed to best capture the issue at stake for me. Agree that BJ more likely than DC to fight it though.

Yes, I agree Alex. It's going to be difficult to frame a question that both sides are happy with.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Noticing that a lot of people who would vote No are basing their ideas on fear.

 

Fear of failing being the main reason.

 

Can I just say that every country from India to Malta was told that independence would result in catastrophic failure.

 

How many countries chose to return to the empire?...

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nucky Thompson
5 minutes ago, Longbaws said:

All other countries have managed it at some point. Why couldn't Scotland?

Only talking about the currency problem that would put a lot of people off.

Keep using the UK pound after independence without a formal currency union and there would be no possibility of Scotland rejoining the EU while using the currency of a non member state.

Also the problems of another financial crisis.

Having your own new currency, the central bank would have to build credibility with international bond markets to borrow large amounts.

It's all unionist lies though :whistling:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Savage Vince said:

 

I agree with this. Salmond fought hard to get hard to get the wording of the question as positive as possible. He was delighted with the question and Cameron was heavily criticised for allowing it to happen. 

Yes, I think Salmond was quite crafty and knew what he was doing. Nothing wrong with that but Cameron was certainly outfoxed I think.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

What happens if there's another financial crisis or pandemic? 

Is Scotland going to start printing more pounds to get out of trouble?

Central banks control currency and they only have the power to expand the money supply to stimulate the economy 


If so desired Scotland could set up its own central bank. Thats a terrible argument.

 

the point of my comment was just as simple as it gets though. People are told “you’ll wake up the day after and your money will be worthless as its Englands currency not Scotlands” that is scaremongering and isnt true. Sadly people who don’t or won’t look into the ins and outs on either side are paralysed with fear over such things and it dictates their voting. Whereas in reality there are options and you won’t wake up in the morning with your life savings wiped out as though they never existed and your house worth nothing , car worth nothing. 
 

Unfortunately it is a crux of the whole independence debate and one that due to scaremongering and human nature the Yes vote must persuade people on as the natural disposition on the subject is a no vote.  

Edited by sadj
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Only talking about the currency problem that would put a lot of people off.

Keep using the UK pound after independence without a formal currency union and there would be no possibility of Scotland rejoining the EU while using the currency of a non member state.

Also the problems of another financial crisis.

Having your own new currency, the central bank would have to build credibility with international bond markets to borrow large amounts.

It's all unionist lies though :whistling:


I’m sure this was disproved. Although to be honest everything the last 18months newswise is a bit of a blur so I may be wrong. I think there was something came out saying that Scotland would start with an already approved good credit rating (possibly AA) 

 

Ill leave you all to argue and debate though 😏 enjoy 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Only talking about the currency problem that would put a lot of people off.

Keep using the UK pound after independence without a formal currency union and there would be no possibility of Scotland rejoining the EU while using the currency of a non member state.

Also the problems of another financial crisis.

Having your own new currency, the central bank would have to build credibility with international bond markets to borrow large amounts.

It's all unionist lies though :whistling:

I believe the last 3 countries that joined the EU still don't use the Euro. They were all given time to "adjust" but its been about 15 years now.

 

I think once it's calculated how much money is actually in Scotland then the stuff in your last paragraph would be a mere formality.

 

We have a lot of oil and we lead the way in Europe in terms or renewables. We only have 5.5 million people to look after. I think it's a lot more straight-forward than people are lead to believe.

 

Too complicated to run out own affairs?? Not really, is it.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

I don't think having a vote on major constitutional change every 10 years is particularly good for economic growth and prosperity. The uncertainty floating around is probably why Scotland has experienced slower economical growth than the rest of the UK. 

 

However the thought of the SNP disappearing would fill me with joy. Imagine we could get a government that focussed on important issues as apposed to freebies to keep their independence dream alive.

You mean a Labour government answerable to Westminster or a Tory Government answerable to Westminster, just like the old days ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nucky Thompson
2 minutes ago, sadj said:


If so desired Scotland could set up its own central bank. Thats a terrible argument.

 

the point of my comment was just as simple as it gets though. People are told “you’ll wake up the day after and your money will be worthless as its Englands currency not Scotlands” that is scaremongering and isnt true. Sadly people who don’t or won’t look into the ins and outs on either side are paralysed with fear over such things and it dictates their voting. Whereas in reality there are options and you won’t wake up in the morning with your life savings wiped out as though they never existed and your house worth nothing , car worth nothing. 
 

Unfortunately it is a crux of the whole independence debate and one that due to scaremongering and human nature the Yes vote must persuade people on as the natural disposition on the subject is a no vote.  

It's not England's currency, it's the UK's currency, but Scotland would be choosing to leave the UK.

Scotland could use the pound but would have no control over stimulating the economy in a crisis

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pasquale for King
1 hour ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

Scots ?

 

Are you forgetting about the other nationalities that have a say on Scotland's future ?

We can’t, the majority of Scots voted for Independence and those of an English persuasion kept us in this union, how disgustingly ironic. Democratic though, unlike “not allowing” another vote which is the “will of the people” after all. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pasquale for King
8 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

It's not England's currency, it's the UK's currency, but Scotland would be choosing to leave the UK.

Scotland could use the pound but would have no control over stimulating the economy in a crisis

Sterlingisation has been pretty much derailed now, a central bank and our own currency is the way forward. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share




×
×
  • Create New...