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Should Scotland be an independent country?


Alex Kintner
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Should Scotland be an independent country?  

224 members have voted

  1. 1. Should Scotland be an independent country?

    • Yes
      152
    • No
      63
    • Don’t know/ Abstain/ Spoil ballot
      9


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5 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

The SNP are a mafia. They will seek full control of the country. I actually think that as a party they are doing more damage to their cause than for it.

They don’t currently have full control and probably never will under our voting system. They are effectively in coalition and probably always will be. That’s a good thing if you ask me. If you are looking for someone with full control who is answerable to no one and completely fireproof, he’s the fat blonde one currently running your country

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2 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Many WILL vote yes for the wrong reasons. Romantic patriotism being the major ‘wrong reason’ 

 

Leaving the EU was a complete disaster for the UK visited on us by English racists and xenophobics.

 

Id suggest EVERYONE does some sit down research before voting for the future of the country. Try first to find stuff that is truly non partisan. If you’ve thought about it seriously and you still vote No, then that’s democracy in action. If you vote No because Boris tells you we are stronger together and you don’t even question it, you’re a fool. If you vote Yes because you like the Braveheart spirit and you’re a teary romantic old flag waver you’re also a fool. 

 

 

I think it is time this lazy racist and xenephobe chat gets put to bed. It is painful. We need to have mature debate about immigration. It is not going away and it is a huge deal. You really think that 18 million (or whatever it was) racists came out to vote that day.

 

Your comment about it being due to "racist English" is infact highly racist. What a shocking thing to say.

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Do folks know Scotland was an independent country for nearly 1000 years before the Scottish Aristocracy were bribed £20,000 each to vote for a Union they didn't want?

 

These payments are noted in the English Treasury report the year after the Act of Union in 1707.

 

Of course the Darien Scheme destroyed the Scottish economy but even after it failed, the aristocracy still didn't want to create the UK until they were bribed.

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1 minute ago, Longbaws said:

Do folks know Scotland was an independent country for nearly 1000 years before the Scottish Aristocracy were bribed £20,000 each to vote for a Union they didn't want?

 

These payments are noted in the English Treasury report the year after the Act of Union in 1707.

 

Of course the Darien Scheme destroyed the Scottish economy but even after it failed, the aristocracy still didn't want to create the UK until they were bribed.

 

 

This is almost 2022 though. We live in (sadly) a globalist debt controlled world and independence no longer exists.

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5 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

I think the under 24s would vote for it now.

 

Some genuinely believed the stuff about it being the only way to stay in the EU (which was true for a short period of time) so voted to protect their European citizenship. Now that's gone and independence is the best way back in I think they'll have changed. That's the under 24s in 2014, who are now not necessarily the same people. The current under 24s may be swayed by something totally different as they won't have had such a great experience of what being in the EU brought like those a decade older.

 

It won't happen though, if it's offered up people will bottle it again. Then moan about Westminster and the will of the people.

 

I'm torn on it these days. Ideologically I'm 100% behind it, but I'm not sure you can thrive as an independent country where nearly half the people in it either don't believe it should be independent or are too afraid of the unknown. I reckon it would be a disaster.

I think we WOULD see quite a bit of migration from people not even prepared to see how it pans out. But the leisure industry in Scotland is on its knees because they can’t staff if and that would be resolved instantly. That’s a huge immediate boost to the economy. I think we’d also see quite a bit of corporate migration, but that would work both ways. We can easily make it very attractive for new business to come here. We can’t do much to stop some people and business re-locating. It would come with the territory.

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1 minute ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

This is almost 2022 though. We live in (sadly) a globalist debt controlled world and independence no longer exists.

I think you’re confusing independence with self governance. We don’t want to be independent in that we don’t have relationships and dependencies on and trade with other countries. No one wants a North Korea here, but a Norway would be nice.

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1 minute ago, JimmyCant said:

I think you’re confusing independence with self governance. We don’t want to be independent in that we don’t have relationships and dependencies on and trade with other countries. No one wants a North Korea here, but a Norway would be nice.

 

Ahh good old Norway. 

 

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Just now, i8hibsh said:

 

 

This is almost 2022 though. We live in (sadly) a globalist debt controlled world and independence no longer exists.

I just want Scottish votes to count in an election. I'm all for scrutinizing the government but the UK media is an absolute joke.

 

London is the most corrupt city in the world (sorry Lagos and Pyongyang👍

 

It may take years to sort out but it has to be a damn sight better than being ruled by the Right Honourable Tax Evaders who vote down meals for hungry kids whilst getting fat off their own subsidised meals, in their subsidised houses.

 

People don't like the SNP? That's fine! Just vote them out for another party. As long as that decision is made my Scots then I'm happy with that.

 

Indy is not about the SNP it's about Scottish people deciding Scotland's future. And hopefully massive constitutional reform too👍

 

 

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17 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

Ahh good old Norway. 

 

Indeed. Not an easy example of an independent economy to pick holes in but I’m sure you’ll give it a shot

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29 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

I think it is time this lazy racist and xenephobe chat gets put to bed. It is painful. We need to have mature debate about immigration. It is not going away and it is a huge deal. You really think that 18 million (or whatever it was) racists came out to vote that day.

 

Your comment about it being due to "racist English" is infact highly racist. What a shocking thing to say.

 

Really, really snidey to change "English racists" to "racist English" and act like it was a quote.

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44 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Many WILL vote yes for the wrong reasons. Romantic patriotism being the major ‘wrong reason’ 

 

Leaving the EU was a complete disaster for the UK visited on us by English racists and xenophobics.

 

Id suggest EVERYONE does some sit down research before voting for the future of the country. Try first to find stuff that is truly non partisan. If you’ve thought about it seriously and you still vote No, then that’s democracy in action. If you vote No because Boris tells you we are stronger together and you don’t even question it, you’re a fool. If you vote Yes because you like the Braveheart spirit and you’re a teary romantic old flag waver you’re also a fool. 

 

It's interesting how an English person wanting to leave Europe is racist and xenophobic yet a Scot who pines for independence is a patriot. 🤷‍♂️

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10 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

image.jpeg.55871d62f6bad475099cd73988721e4a.jpeg

I heard that the wind is going to run out by 2023. The renewable energy sector will be decimated.

Edited by Longbaws
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3 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

It's interesting how an English person wanting to leave Europe is racist and xenophobic yet a Scot who pines for independence is a patriot. 🤷‍♂️

 

He didn't say that, kind of says it all when you have to pretend he did

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9 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

image.jpeg.55871d62f6bad475099cd73988721e4a.jpeg

 

The attacks, the non sequiturs, the twisting, anything to turn a desire for self determination into evil incarnate.

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1 minute ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

It's interesting how an English person wanting to leave Europe is racist and xenophobic yet a Scot who pines for independence is a patriot. 🤷‍♂️

 

Krankie logic. Skip over their shining house on the hill Norway want no truck with the eu also but wull be just like Noarway likesay. No you won't, you'll be Greece minus the sunshine. 

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Just now, JackLadd said:

 

Krankie logic. Skip over their shining house on the hill Norway want no truck with the eu also but wull be just like Noarway likesay. No you won't, you'll be Greece minus the sunshine. 

Aye, Ancient Greece, with Gods and Godesses kicking about everywhere, making a positive impact on the world that lasts for millennia.

 

Couldn't agree more😁

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7 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

It's interesting how an English person wanting to leave Europe is racist and xenophobic yet a Scot who pines for independence is a patriot. 🤷‍♂️

Not really. I don’t want to exclude anyone on the grounds of ethnicity or country of origin. Come here to work and take part in society and contribute to it and I don’t care where you came from. Come and live next door to me and I’ll make you feel welcome. I’ll learn a bit of your language and culture and help you learn about ours. I’ll treat you like I treat anyone else. If you’re not a good person I’ll avoid you. If you’re a good person Ive got your back. Scottish, Polish, English, Pakistani, Syrian I don’t care. Not so much of that feeling in white middle England I think you’ll find. 

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17 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

He didn't say that, kind of says it all when you have to pretend he did

 

Making up your own facts again Smithee?  Crack on.

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jack D and coke
20 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

image.jpeg.55871d62f6bad475099cd73988721e4a.jpeg

Project self-loathe too :lol: 

The last indyref it was “I’m as Scottish as anyone” now it’s “what even is Scottish” and “independence doesn’t even exist cos we’d have to trade with other countries” :lol: 

Some prophecies of impending doom and people high tailing it over the border. 
Have they thought it might be attractive for a lot of English people who hate what England is becoming too? 
You don’t want anyone to leave but if that’s the way they feel don’t let the door hit your arse on the way out 👋🏼😀

 

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1 minute ago, Longbaws said:

Aye, Ancient Greece, with Gods and Godesses kicking about everywhere, making a positive impact on the world that lasts for millennia.

 

Couldn't agree more😁

 

I can see a krankie Olympus with the founders (flounders) carved in marble. Wee Jimmy, Fungus Rab, Wee Katy, Humza Useless. An edifice that will have the shelf life of Jimmy Saville's memorial stone, tossed into the North Sea once the truth outs. Might cause a tsunami in Norway. 😅

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Just now, JackLadd said:

 

I can see a krankie Olympus with the founders (flounders) carved in marble. Wee Jimmy, Fungus Rab, Wee Katy, Humza Useless. An edifice that will have the shelf life of Jimmy Saville's memorial stone, tossed into the North Sea once the truth outs. Might cause a tsunami in Norway. 😅

It's ok to dislike the SNP but this poll is about independence👍

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Maroon Sailor
35 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

image.jpeg.55871d62f6bad475099cd73988721e4a.jpeg

 

What is there to fear ?

 

Scotland will be in the land of milk and honey if it leaves the UK

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3 minutes ago, Longbaws said:

It's ok to dislike the SNP but this poll is about independence👍


That’s an important distinction to make. Once we're independent I don’t care which political party is in government as long as they have full autonomy and the country’s best interests at heart.

Edited by Alex Kintner
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21 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

Krankie logic. Skip over their shining house on the hill Norway want no truck with the eu also but wull be just like Noarway likesay. No you won't, you'll be Greece minus the sunshine. 

Explain for us how Greece managed to get in such a mess ? Then let us know how Scotland would or could become ‘Greece’  What are the similarities you see between Greece before they crashed and a post independence Scotland ? Did Greece crash because of EU membership ? Did Greece start to recover because of EU membership ?

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Just now, Longbaws said:

It's ok to dislike the SNP but this poll is about independence👍

 

It just happens to be the same loaded question the snp want to put to the people again. (plus school kids, lags and refugee status new Scoats).

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1 minute ago, Alex Kintner said:


That’s an important distinction to make. Once we're independent I don’t care which political party is in government as long as they have full autonomy and the country’s best interests at heart.

👍👍👍

 

The last indyref was made out to be Salmond and the SNP vs The glorious British Empire.

 

I know a few folk that voted No because they didn't like Salmond.

 

They excluded every single argument in favour of Indy because they didn't like Salmond/SNP 😞

 

I'm not going to ridicule their reasons for voting but I really believe some people voted without understanding the question in September 2014 😞

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1 minute ago, JimmyCant said:

Explain for us how Greece managed to get in such a mess ? Then let us know how Scotland would or could become ‘Greece’  What are the similarities you see between Greece before they crashed and a post independence Scotland ? Did Greece crash because of EU membership ? Did Greece start to recover because of EU membership ?

 

Greece crashed and needed bailed because it couldn't fund itself and couldn't raise the money on capital markets needed to meet its liabilities so had to pay very high interest rates to attract capital which is exactly what Scotland will face. When the 08 crash occurred they were caught bang to rights. That said Greece with all its massive current debt servicing has a budget deficit of 10%, not 22% like snp Scotland. This is where Krankie fantasy meets Yoon reality given eu membership requires a 3% deficit. Lucky white heather and Scots mist won't do here I'm afraid. 

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6 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

It just happens to be the same loaded question the snp want to put to the people again. (plus school kids, lags and refugee status new Scoats).

No trickery here.

 

I saw a poll that favoured Indy. I wanted to start a poll here to see what people thought.

 

I didn't vote SNP at the last election.

It's just a coincidence if it is the same question👍

 

I would much prefer a Green/Socialist type government. But I also want the oil money for about 20 years to get us up and running🙄

 

If I can't have those things, I would be more than happy just to have a government that's is voted in by people that live here.

 

It's what nearly every single country in the world has.

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1 minute ago, Longbaws said:

👍👍👍

 

The last indyref was made out to be Salmond and the SNP vs The glorious British Empire.

 

I know a few folk that voted No because they didn't like Salmond.

 

They excluded every single argument in favour of Indy because they didn't like Salmond/SNP 😞

 

I'm not going to ridicule their reasons for voting but I really believe some people voted without understanding the question in September 2014 😞

THIS ! 
 

I didn’t/don’t like Salmond. He was a means to end for me and he wouldn’t have survived 5 minutes as an independent Scotland’s Premier. I’m equally sure Sturgeon turns people off too. 
 

But you’re missing the point entirely if you vote No because you don’t like Sturgeon or the SNP. The question being asked is far more important than  that and doesn’t depend on her/them running an independent Scotland. That’s for post independent Scotland to decide and we’ll be governed by coalitions anyway no matter what happens.

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3 minutes ago, Longbaws said:

No trickery here.

 

I saw a poll that favoured Indy. I wanted to start a poll here to see what people thought.

 

I didn't vote SNP at the last election.

It's just a coincidence if it is the same question👍

 

I would much prefer a Green/Socialist type government. But I also want the oil money for about 20 years to get us up and running🙄

 

If I can't have those things, I would be more than happy just to have a government that's is voted in by people that live here.

 

It's what nearly every single country in the world has.

 

 

Relying on fossil fuels will not pay Rab C and Mary Dolls incapacity benefits.

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Just now, JackLadd said:

 

 

Relying on fossil fuels will not pay Rab C and Mary Dolls incapacity benefits.

Selling ******* vegetable oil is enough to cover the welfare system.

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18 minutes ago, Longbaws said:

👍👍👍

 

The last indyref was made out to be Salmond and the SNP vs The glorious British Empire.

 

I know a few folk that voted No because they didn't like Salmond.

 

They excluded every single argument in favour of Indy because they didn't like Salmond/SNP 😞

 

I'm not going to ridicule their reasons for voting but I really believe some people voted without understanding the question in September 2014 😞


And here we have it again. Us poor unionists just don’t understand things. 😂😂😂

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Just now, Dazo said:


And here we have it again. Us poor unionists just don’t understand things. 😂😂😂

That's not what I said. "Some people" should have told you that bud👍

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4 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

Greece crashed and needed bailed because it couldn't fund itself and couldn't raise the money on capital markets needed to meet its liabilities so had to pay very high interest rates to attract capital which is exactly what Scotland will face. When the 08 crash occurred they were caught bang to rights. That said Greece with all its massive current debt servicing has a budget deficit of 10%, not 22% like snp Scotland. This is where Krankie fantasy meets Yoon reality given eu membership requires a 3% deficit. Lucky white heather and Scots mist won't do here I'm afraid. 

Greece crashed because successive Greek governments overcooked the welfare state giving ridiculous welfare benefits they couldn’t pay for, such as stupidly early retirement and government funded extra pay at year end and Easter. Their low taxation couldn’t pay for it and their international credit ran out after 20 years of this stupidity. Scotland would never go down that road. 
 

Scotland has a high paper deficit largely because we are servicing debt incurred by the UK government for spending which we had no say in and which was of no benefit to Scotland. For example, we’ll be paying for HS2 which has no benefit to Scotland and in fact is detrimental to Scotland.

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Just now, JimmyCant said:

Greece crashed because successive Greek governments overcooked the welfare state giving ridiculous welfare benefits they couldn’t pay for, such as stupidly early retirement and government funded extra pay at year end and Easter. Their low taxation couldn’t pay for it and their international credit ran out after 20 years of this stupidity. Scotland would never go down that road. 
 

Scotland has a high paper deficit largely because we are servicing debt incurred by the UK government for spending which we had no say in and which was of no benefit to Scotland. For example, we’ll be paying for HS2 which has no benefit to Scotland and in fact is detrimental to Scotland.

 

They were retiring at 50 IIRC, to be fair I'd be right up for that.

 

But anyway, why shouldn't Scotland be able to make its own decisions?

Why the assumption we'd be more Greece than Denmark?

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2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

They were retiring at 50 IIRC, to be fair I'd be right up for that.

 

But anyway, why shouldn't Scotland be able to make its own decisions?

Why the assumption we'd be more Greece than Denmark?

A fantastic question to add to this debate👍👍

 

Would like to see some responses!

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11 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

The Yes/No was deemed to be favourable to Yes, by the Electoral Commission,  at the time of Brexit. 

Yes is, by definition,  positive whereas No is the opposite.  

That's why we had Leave/Remain. No chance the UK govt will sanction a referendum on the same terms as DC did. He handed all the advantages to the SNP. That won't happen again.

 

I agree with this. Salmond fought hard to get hard to get the wording of the question as positive as possible. He was delighted with the question and Cameron was heavily criticised for allowing it to happen. 

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2 minutes ago, Savage Vince said:

 

I agree with this. Salmond fought hard to get hard to get the wording of the question as positive as possible. He was delighted with the question and Cameron was heavily criticised for allowing it to happen. 

Leave/Remain or Yes/No. given the Brexit outcome, doesn’t make a blind bit of difference how it’s worded for me as long as the distinct choices are clear and simple

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Just now, JimmyCant said:

Leave/Remain or Yes/No. given the Brexit outcome, doesn’t make a blind bit of difference how it’s worded for me as long as the distinct choices are clear and simple

 

Yeah, I'm the same Jimmy. 

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1 hour ago, Smithee said:

 

Really, really snidey to change "English racists" to "racist English" and act like it was a quote.

 

 

Out of all my points this is what you pick up on?  The whole 'blame the English' is a disgrace on every level and quite frankly it is boring now.

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jack D and coke
2 minutes ago, Savage Vince said:

 

I agree with this. Salmond fought hard to get hard to get the wording of the question as positive as possible. He was delighted with the question and Cameron was heavily criticised for allowing it to happen. 

I really can’t see why that was deemed to be any advantage myself. It didn’t sway anyone who wasn’t already there I don’t think. 
No won and they’re suggesting that because Yes actually got the word Yes on the paper this was an advantage?!

Baffling. 
 

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5 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Out of all my points this is what you pick up on?  The whole 'blame the English' is a disgrace on every level and quite frankly it is boring now.

 

I picked up on your snidey attempt at painting the independence movement as being based on racism, yes.

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10 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

They were retiring at 50 IIRC, to be fair I'd be right up for that.

 

But anyway, why shouldn't Scotland be able to make its own decisions?

Why the assumption we'd be more Greece than Denmark?

50 for women, 58 for men. Sounds bloody brilliant for an individual but it bankrupted the country (or made a huge contribution to it at any rate)

 

Having said that, our retirement ages are far too high and I’d like to see us go back to 65 across the board. That extra 2-3 years when you’ve contributed for 45 years thinking you’d retire at 65 is an unfair movement of goalposts. There isn’t enough thinking outside the box and innovation on state pensions and that’s an opportunity we’d have to fix it 

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1 hour ago, JimmyCant said:

Indeed. Not an easy example of an independent economy to pick holes in but I’m sure you’ll give it a shot

 

 

Salmond's deep infatuation with Norway was nothing short of creepy.

 

I was in Oslo a few years back and being the sociable person I am, I chewed the fat in many a bar with many a local.  They are absolutely dumbfounded with the SNPs love in with them and why they have Norway on such a high pedestal.  The only people constantly signing it's praises are those who are not Norwegian.

 

It is a very fine country but it should be no 'benchmark' for others.  Norway has the issues most countries face and it's taxation system is truly unfair to most. 

 

A small point though, I know it is just a small matter but Norway never inherited up to 300 billion debt when they started - we would be.  Oh and another small point....Norway had the sunny days of oil - those sunny days are long gone.

 

Scotland will never be Norway, we are Scotland.  We have too much public sector workers to start a fresh, riddled with debt.  We have too much high crime rates (probably England's fault) and too many people are workshy in this country.

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6 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Out of all my points this is what you pick up on?  The whole 'blame the English' is a disgrace on every level and quite frankly it is boring now.

Scotland voted remain. England voted Leave. We had to leave against our democratic will. That’s the disgrace here.

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