Should Scotland be an independent country?

[BlueRiver]

7 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

 

Perhaps the Scottish voters (not the circle jerkers) actually think the SNP are actually governing relatively well. The repeated absolutely huge election victories would suggest so. 

 

Labour's leader is literally proposing to continue the very thing that has wrecked the UK economy despite everyone with half a brain knowing it'll never work in a million years. 😂

 

With a 4% or £100 billion a year handicap you're not going forward. 

 

Perhaps the yellow voting 'monkeys' have seen right through Labour? After all they had 60 or 70 years of a closed shop and did nothing for Scotland. 

 

Handing that same closed shop to the SNP who've done in my view very little since 2007 isn't much better but that's by the by. 

 

The Brexit conundrum is a tough one I admit. Personally I see it more as a pragmatic approach for the time being. Labour need to actually get close to power and undermining support in key constituencies won't help that. I know Starmer isn't for everyone, but I actually like the look of a Labour leader who appears to want to exercise power for a change after so long. 

 

On this point though and circling back to the overall intentions of this thread. Do you think a Scottish independence vote would overnight see the economy of Scotland transformed for the better? Many forecasts place the damage on a par or worse than that of Brexit. You wouldn't be arguing to rejoin the Union after 2 years if the Scottish economy wasn't performing as it had before would you? 

 

Edit: Also for avoidance of doubt I didn't call the voters monkeys. I said they'd vote for a monkey in a yellow rosette. 

Edited February 7, 2023 by BlueRiver

[The Mighty Thor]

20 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

 

Handing that same closed shop to the SNP who've done in my view very little since 2007 isn't much better but that's by the by. 

 

The Brexit conundrum is a tough one I admit. Personally I see it more as a pragmatic approach for the time being. Labour need to actually get close to power and undermining support in key constituencies won't help that. I know Starmer isn't for everyone, but I actually like the look of a Labour leader who appears to want to exercise power for a change after so long. 

 

On this point though and circling back to the overall intentions of this thread. Do you think a Scottish independence vote would overnight see the economy of Scotland transformed for the better? Many forecasts place the damage on a par or worse than that of Brexit. You wouldn't be arguing to rejoin the Union after 2 years if the Scottish economy wasn't performing as it had before would you? 

 

Edit: Also for avoidance of doubt I didn't call the voters monkeys. I said they'd vote for a monkey in a yellow rosette. 

Unlike the 70 years of red rosette rule there's actually a choice these days and Scots aren't buying what the branch office is selling. 

 

Brexit isn't a conundrum. It's as black and white an issue as ever there's been. So the grand plan for taking the UK forward is to come in on a lie? Really 😂

 

Wait do you actually think he'll go through with addressing Brexit once he gets in? 😂

 

Of course Scotlands economy will take time to adapt to the conditions independence present. You'd have to be foolish to think otherwise. 

The bottom line is Scotland cannot afford to remain in the UK as it disintegrates. We have far too many natural resources to allow that to happen. 

 

There's not a single country in the world that has seceded from the UK that has wanted to rejoin. Not one. 

[pablo]

4 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

 

There's not a single country in the world that has seceded from the UK that has wanted to rejoin. Not one. 

 

You mean Ireland? 

[The Mighty Thor]

2 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

You mean Ireland? 

Nope. Not one. 

 

65 countries have seceded.

 

That tells its own story. 

 

[pablo]

Just now, The Mighty Thor said:

Nope. Not one. 

 

65 countries have seceded.

 

That tells its own story. 

 

 

Not from the United Kingdom they've not.

[BlueRiver]

12 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Unlike the 70 years of red rosette rule there's actually a choice these days and Scots aren't buying what the branch office is selling. 

 

Brexit isn't a conundrum. It's as black and white an issue as ever there's been. So the grand plan for taking the UK forward is to come in on a lie? Really 😂

 

Wait do you actually think he'll go through with addressing Brexit once he gets in? 😂

 

Of course Scotlands economy will take time to adapt to the conditions independence present. You'd have to be foolish to think otherwise. 

The bottom line is Scotland cannot afford to remain in the UK as it disintegrates. We have far too many natural resources to allow that to happen. 

 

There's not a single country in the world that has seceded from the UK that has wanted to rejoin. Not one. 

 

It's about pragmatism in winning power initially rather than reopening a septic wound so soon. Labour need to achieve power. I don't see how it's a lie really, we're outside the EU and Starmer has committed to trying to make that work in the short term. Will this be the position in 5 years? Who knows. I can't see the future anymore than you can. 

 

So take time to adapt? Is that a euphemism for turbo austerity and contract rapidly? Let's not beat around the Bush, that's the short term impacts of any Scottish independence vote. The degree of severity would ultimately be in the detail. Would you scoff at any Scottish politicians looking to make a success of independence in the immediate aftermath when the economic pain was seriously biting? You wouldn't. You'd expect them to be pragmatic and stay the course. 

 

Your last paragraph is completely irrelevant. 

 

 

[BlueRiver]

1 minute ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Nope. Not one. 

 

65 countries have seceded.

 

That tells its own story. 

 

 

Ireland is the only country to have left the UK. 

 

It's a pedantic point but correct nonetheless. 

[jambomjm74]

7 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Unlike the 70 years of red rosette rule there's actually a choice these days and Scots aren't buying what the branch office is selling. 

 

Brexit isn't a conundrum. It's as black and white an issue as ever there's been. So the grand plan for taking the UK forward is to come in on a lie? Really 😂

 

Wait do you actually think he'll go through with addressing Brexit once he gets in? 😂

 

Of course Scotlands economy will take time to adapt to the conditions independence present. You'd have to be foolish to think otherwise. 

The bottom line is Scotland cannot afford to remain in the UK as it disintegrates. We have far too many natural resources to allow that to happen. 

 

There's not a single country in the world that has seceded from the UK that has wanted to rejoin. Not one. 

It’s very funny how the Indy cause was all for exiting the EU at the Indy ref and the whole point was for home rule, not to replace one “foreign elected” body with another. 
I’d stay in both as I don’t agree with flawed nationalistic rhetoric. 
Take time to adapt; a neat understatement, the U.K. is our biggest export market and ties run far deeper. It would cost a fortune, be a massive economic hit. The economic case for it doesn’t exist, if it did we’d have more than a few poorly thought through power points. 

Scotland may be a colonial member of the U.K. in your mind, but if we deal in facts.. Scotland is part of a Union and only recently reconfirmed its voluntary status as an equal member. 
Ohh dear .. I think wee Nicky’s recent performances have some what impacted you and if it hasn’t… then read the polls.

It’s been a bad week for Smurf’s

[The Mighty Thor]

5 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

 

It's about pragmatism in winning power initially rather than reopening a septic wound so soon. Labour need to achieve power. I don't see how it's a lie really, we're outside the EU and Starmer has committed to trying to make that work in the short term. Will this be the position in 5 years? Who knows. I can't see the future anymore than you can. 

 

So take time to adapt? Is that a euphemism for turbo austerity and contract rapidly? Let's not beat around the Bush, that's the short term impacts of any Scottish independence vote. The degree of severity would ultimately be in the detail. Would you scoff at any Scottish politicians looking to make a success of independence in the immediate aftermath when the economic pain was seriously biting? You wouldn't. You'd expect them to be pragmatic and stay the course. 

 

Your last paragraph is completely irrelevant. 

 

 

Pragmatism is addressing the 4% £100 billion hole in your economy. Anything else is just hoodwinking the electorate.
 

Here’s what’ll happen, IF Labour get into power with a majority and it is an if as Keith has still not faced the guns of the right wing client media, then he’ll not do anything until towards the back end of his first term. Then the time won’t be right because they’ll want a second term. Rinse and repeat. 
 

Oh and by the way he’ll get crucified on this very point if he ever faces anyone of any political heft in TV debates.  

 

On the subject of the Scottish economy as you succinctly said yourself, you can’t see the future any more than I can. 
 

 

[BlueRiver]

Just now, The Mighty Thor said:

Pragmatism is addressing the 4% £100 billion hole in your economy. Anything else is just hoodwinking the electorate.
 

Here’s what’ll happen, IF Labour get into power with a majority and it is an if as Keith has still not faced the guns of the right wing client media, then he’ll not do anything until towards the back end of his first term. Then the time won’t be right because they’ll want a second term. Rinse and repeat. 
 

Oh and by the way he’ll get crucified on this very point if he ever faces anyone of any political heft in TV debates.  

 

On the subject of the Scottish economy as you succinctly said yourself, you can’t see the future any more than I can. 
 

 

 

So you think every expert forecast and even acknowledgments of economic pain by some within the SNP are all pish? 

 

How Brexity of you. 

[The Mighty Thor]

12 minutes ago, jambomjm74 said:

 

It’s been a bad week for Smurf’s

You know it’s been a bad week for you when you’re aping the chronic banter of one of the boards dimmest bulbs. 

[BlueRiver]

Also pragmatism is getting elected. If that means not reviving a divisive debate over EU membership for the time being then so be it. It's not my optimal choice but I know I'd rather Keir seized power than sat having a wee tug on the sidelines in eternal opposition. Too often the comfort zone of left leaning parties. 

[jambomjm74]

1 minute ago, The Mighty Thor said:

You know it’s been a bad week for you when you’re aping the chronic banter of one of the boards dimmest bulbs. 

When the cap fits…

the old colonial Scotland stuff is straight out of smurf land 

[The Mighty Thor]

1 minute ago, BlueRiver said:

 

So you think every expert forecast and even acknowledgments of economic pain by some within the SNP are all pish? 

 

How Brexity of you. 

You’ll need to point that out to me as I really cannot see where I said that. In fact I said earlier that you’d be foolish to think that. Do keep up. There’s a good lad. 
 

1 minute ago, BlueRiver said:

Also pragmatism is getting elected. If that means not reviving a divisive debate over EU membership for the time being then so be it. It's not my optimal choice but I know I'd rather Keir seized power than sat having a wee tug on the sidelines in eternal opposition. Too often the comfort zone of left leaning parties. 

 

Why not pull on the big boy pants and actually stand for what you believe in. Call it out. It’s an economic disaster and it’s not even fully implemented. 
 

The electorate aren’t that stupid. They’ll see right through him and it gives the Tories the mother of all attack angles. Keith is fighting a daily battle to keep his own troops in line ‘just to get elected’

 

its risible. 
 

[The Mighty Thor]

3 minutes ago, jambomjm74 said:

When the cap fits…

the old colonial Scotland stuff is straight out of smurf land 

You’ve lost me there and I’ll leave you to it. Like IQ5 you’ve got nothing to offer. 

[BlueRiver]

1 minute ago, The Mighty Thor said:

You’ll need to point that out to me as I really cannot see where I said that. In fact I said earlier that you’d be foolish to think that. Do keep up. There’s a good lad. 
 

 

Why not pull on the big boy pants and actually stand for what you believe in. Call it out. It’s an economic disaster and it’s not even fully implemented. 
 

The electorate aren’t that stupid. They’ll see right through him and it gives the Tories the mother of all attack angles. Keith is fighting a daily battle to keep his own troops in line ‘just to get elected’

 

its risible. 
 

 

You said we can't see the future. Very true but when the overwhelming expert opinion points to short term detrimental impacts you'd think the least you could do would be acknowledge that. Instead you obfuscate. 

 

Because he's not a 19 year old standing for the local student council mate. Hes looking to run a country whilst leading a party that will have been out of power for around 14 years by the time he gets a tilt. You may find it risible, I'm finally happy to see a Labour leader not engaged in pre-election self sabotage. He knows fine well many of his own voter base broke for Brexit. 

[BlueRiver]

I do find heart though. If Scotland voted for independence and the inevitable economic hardship hit, Thor would be front and centre declaring it an economic disaster and looking for Scottish politicians to rectify that situation by promptly re-entering a Union with the rUK. 

[Roxy Hearts]

1 hour ago, The Mighty Thor said:

 

Perhaps the Scottish voters (not the circle jerkers) actually think the SNP are actually governing relatively well. The repeated absolutely huge election victories would suggest so. 

 

Labour's leader is literally proposing to continue the very thing that has wrecked the UK economy despite everyone with half a brain knowing it'll never work in a million years. 😂

 

With a 4% or £100 billion a year handicap you're not going forward. 

 

Perhaps the yellow voting 'monkeys' have seen right through Labour? After all they had 60 or 70 years of a closed shop and did nothing for Scotland. 

Labour are a joke and will do nothing but rearrange the establishment mess. The SNP, for all their flaws, govern better then all of the other devolved governments and Westminster. When does England get its devolved government in this union of equals?

 

I also wouldn't trust Starmer and Sarwar. 2 complete and utter frauds. What an absolute mess the UK is! 

[The Mighty Thor]

6 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

 

You said we can't see the future. Very true but when the overwhelming expert opinion points to short term detrimental impacts you'd think the least you could do would be acknowledge that. Instead you obfuscate. 

 

Because he's not a 19 year old standing for the local student council mate. Hes looking to run a country whilst leading a party that will have been out of power for around 14 years by the time he gets a tilt. You may find it risible, I'm finally happy to see a Labour leader not engaged in pre-election self sabotage. He knows fine well many of his own voter base broke for Brexit. 

Aye I obfuscate that much I actually replied this to you earlier,

 

Of course Scotlands economy will take time to adapt to the conditions independence present. You'd have to be foolish to think otherwise

 

So your solution to the country’s economic malaise is to get a guy into power on a lie (perhaps even a bare faced one) on the premise that he may or indeed may not undo the thing that will prevent his administration from making any meaningful difference to the economy of and therefore the  living conditions of the citizens of the country?

 

Obfuscation? Aye? 😂

[BlueRiver]

Just now, The Mighty Thor said:

Aye I obfuscate that much I actually replied this to you earlier,

 

Of course Scotlands economy will take time to adapt to the conditions independence present. You'd have to be foolish to think otherwise

 

So your solution to the country’s economic malaise is to get a guy into power on a lie (perhaps even a bare faced one) on the premise that he may or indeed may not undo the thing that will prevent his administration from making any meaningful difference to the economy of and therefore the  living conditions of the citizens of the country?

 

Obfuscation? Aye? 😂

 

Take time to adapt. Couldn't the same euphemistic pish be applied to the conditions that Brexit presented? Its smoke and mirrors. 

 

What lie will he be taking power based on? His campaign isn't grounded around Brexit being a success. He's just not going to revisit the issue. He may if there was additional terms, who knows? The next election isn't solely going to be waged over Brexit policy. 

 

Again though, it's nice to see you'd argue for independence to be undone on the basis of economic hardship to the Scottish people if it came to pass. I'd hate to think you're a hypocrite. 

[The Mighty Thor]

4 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Labour are a joke and will do nothing but rearrange the establishment mess. The SNP, for all their flaws, govern better then all of the other devolved governments and Westminster. When does England get its devolved government in this union of equals?

 

I also wouldn't trust Starmer and Sarwar. 2 complete and utter frauds. What an absolute mess the UK is! 

You’ll have noted that our man didn’t commit to who he thought should run Scotland earlier. 
 

He probably thinks Labour but even he knows that Is just a ridiculously stupid proposition.  

[BlueRiver]

2 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

You’ll have noted that our man didn’t commit to who he thought should run Scotland earlier. 
 

He probably thinks Labour but even he knows that Is just a ridiculously stupid proposition.  

 

Westminster runs Scotland so Labour 😊

[BlueRiver]

Except I did say I'm happy for any party to be in charge in Holyrood provided they govern effectively and within their remit. This current iteration of the SNP is not that. I'd swap this administration for Salmond's in a ****ing heartbeat. 

[The Mighty Thor]

1 minute ago, BlueRiver said:

 

Take time to adapt. Couldn't the same euphemistic pish be applied to the conditions that Brexit presented? Its smoke and mirrors. 

 

What lie will he be taking power based on? His campaign isn't grounded around Brexit being a success. He's just not going to revisit the issue. He may if there was additional terms, who knows? The next election isn't solely going to be waged over Brexit policy. 

 

Again though, it's nice to see you'd argue for independence to be undone on the basis of economic hardship to the Scottish people if it came to pass. I'd hate to think you're a hypocrite. 

Neither you nor I know what will come out of independence. Hence my reply. 
 

You’re right. Perhaps Keith does actually want to continue with the £100 billion a year handicap, perhaps he wants to be the guy to implement it fully and to really do a number on the UK economy. 
 

If you don’t think the next election will be a proxy war on Brexit then you’re more naive than I think you are. 
 

your last paragraph is a spectacular word salad of wibble . 

[BlueRiver]

Just now, The Mighty Thor said:

Neither you nor I know what will come out of independence. Hence my reply. 
 

You’re right. Perhaps Keith does actually want to continue with the £100 billion a year handicap, perhaps he wants to be the guy to implement it fully and to really do a number on the UK economy. 
 

If you don’t think the next election will be a proxy war on Brexit then you’re more naive than I think you are. 
 

your last paragraph is a spectacular word salad of wibble . 

 

🤣 aye very good. 

 

Independence will cause short term economic pain. There is no denying that. You and your cult can't even tell us what our currency would be, can't get figures right on our renewable potential and are currently in the process of trashing our drinks industry for some Green back of a fag packet agenda. 

 

My last paragraph is your view. If Scottish independence caused economic hardship to the people of Scotland you'd want politicians to stand to undo it on that basis? If not, why do you expect politicians to stand on that platform re. Brexit? 

[Korky]

34 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Labour are a joke and will do nothing but rearrange the establishment mess. The SNP, for all their flaws, govern better then all of the other devolved governments and Westminster. When does England get its devolved government in this union of equals?

 

I also wouldn't trust Starmer and Sarwar. 2 complete and utter frauds. What an absolute mess the UK is! 

You really love the word ‘establishment’ don’t you? Usually preceded by ‘UK’ or ‘British’.

Of course there’s no such thing as a Scottish establishment!

[The Mighty Thor]

3 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

 

🤣 aye very good. 

 

Independence will cause short term economic pain. There is no denying that. You and your cult can't even tell us what our currency would be, can't get figures right on our renewable potential and are currently in the process of trashing our drinks industry for some Green back of a fag packet agenda. 

 

My last paragraph is your view. If Scottish independence caused economic hardship to the people of Scotland you'd want politicians to stand to undo it on that basis? If not, why do you expect politicians to stand on that platform re. Brexit? 

You’re getting a bit desperate when you’re running through the favourites from the 2014 pamphlet again. 😂

 

I’m 100% sure in the event of independence you’ll have politicians standing on a platform of ‘rejoining’ the rUK. There will be a lot of misty eyed, Union Jack waving souls still hanging on to the ‘glory days’ of when Liz was in the chair and we battered them Germans etc. 

I won’t be one of them. 

 

Independence may cause short term pain. I think we’ve already established that. However your point of comparison is not a short term pain. It’s 4% £100 billion every year. Probably more when we finally get around to implementing it properly. That’s not short term, that’s every year. No big free trade agreements in the wings. No way out the hole, just a bunch of shovels. 
 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Pragmatism is addressing the 4% £100 billion hole in your economy. Anything else is just hoodwinking the electorate.
 

Here’s what’ll happen, IF Labour get into power with a majority and it is an if as Keith has still not faced the guns of the right wing client media, then he’ll not do anything until towards the back end of his first term. Then the time won’t be right because they’ll want a second term. Rinse and repeat. 
 

Oh and by the way he’ll get crucified on this very point if he ever faces anyone of any political heft in TV debates.  

 

On the subject of the Scottish economy as you succinctly said yourself, you can’t see the future any more than I can. 
 

 

And like sturgeon. He will be crucified by the electorate if he can’t answer “ what is a woman “? I’ve been laughed at about this issue for months but the identity politics / culture will play it’s part in who gets back in at Westminster 

[JudyJudyJudy]

37 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

The next election isn't solely going to be waged over Brexit policy. 

If the Brexit voters get a whiff there might be talk of undoing Brexit if Labour get in then it’s curtains for Labour . They need those Brexit voters as much as the Toaires do 

[JudyJudyJudy]

25 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

 

🤣 aye very good. 

 

Independence will cause short term economic pain. There is no denying that. You and your cult can't even tell us what our currency would be, can't get figures right on our renewable potential and are currently in the process of trashing our drinks industry for some Green back of a fag packet agenda. 

 

My last paragraph is your view. If Scottish independence caused economic hardship to the people of Scotland you'd want politicians to stand to undo it on that basis? If not, why do you expect politicians to stand on that platform re. Brexit? 

👍👍👍 I am amazed at the cavalier attitude of some on this who readily dismiss the “ short term “ economic pain” of post Indy . They are the ones who never stop going on about how the Toaries have caused the current economic pain . So Indy pain ok ? Toarie pain no 

[BlueRiver]

1 minute ago, The Mighty Thor said:

You’re getting a bit desperate when you’re running through the favourites from the 2014 pamphlet again. 😂

 

I’m 100% sure in the event of independence you’ll have politicians standing on a platform of ‘rejoining’ the rUK. There will be a lot of misty eyed, Union Jack waving souls still hanging on to the ‘glory days’ of when Liz was in the chair and we battered them Germans etc. 

I won’t be one of them. 

 

Independence may cause short term pain. I think we’ve already established that. However your point of comparison is not a short term pain. It’s 4% £100 billion every year. Probably more when we finally get around to implementing it properly. That’s not short term, that’s every year. No big free trade agreements in the wings. No way out the hole, just a bunch of shovels. 
 

 

 

The favourites? The drinks industry is going to take it dry in the coming weeks because of Lorna Slater. The other two are reruns because your mob still are no closer to adequate answers on them. Not my fault. Address the questions and people don't ask them anymore. Another failing. 

 

Yes my comparison is short term pain. The Brexit realities are exactly that too. How that translates decades down the line is different but short term in constitutional matters isn't a couple years. We can't just sit and declare it'll be 100bn a year in perpetuity though as it ignores any courses a UK government may look to chart. You know...much like how Scotland would be in a similar situation if independent. 

 

Brexit like Scottish Independence isn't something that the full effects will or would be known for years. 

 

Ireland came up earlier. Ireland was a fiscal basket case for 50 years+ following their own independence. That's the type of time scales we need to talk when we're looking at huge constitutional upheaval. 

[BlueRiver]

4 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

If the Brexit voters get a whiff there might be talk of undoing Brexit if Labour get in then it’s curtains for Labour . They need those Brexit voters as much as the Toaires do 

 

Correct. I know Starmer isn't popular with everyone but he's at least smart enough to know this. 

 

He was there in 2019 when wishy washy Brexit policy from Labour contributed to a Boris majority.

[BlueRiver]

2 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

👍👍👍 I am amazed at the cavalier attitude of some on this who readily dismiss the “ short term “ economic pain” of post Indy . They are the ones who never stop going on about how the Toaries have caused the current economic pain . So Indy pain ok ? Toarie pain no 

 

It's madness. There's a couple on here that do quite happily face up to these realities and I've had good chats with them on it. The head in sand mob...they'd rather piss in your pocket and tell you it's raining. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

 

It's madness. There's a couple on here that do quite happily face up to these realities and I've had good chats with them on it. The head in sand mob...they'd rather piss in your pocket and tell you it's raining. 

Yep . As you stated the “ short term “ pain might be for up to 50 years ! Imagine someone 18 at the beginning of an Indy Scotland ? 50 years austerity basically 

[The Mighty Thor]

15 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

If the Brexit voters get a whiff there might be talk of undoing Brexit if Labour get in then it’s curtains for Labour . They need those Brexit voters as much as the Toaires do 

And that’s why Keith is shiting it to even discuss it.
 

at least the SNP is up front about what it wants. You either vote for it or you don’t.
 

Labour won’t get in with the majority they think they will .  

[The Mighty Thor]

14 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

 

The favourites? The drinks industry is going to take it dry in the coming weeks because of Lorna Slater. The other two are reruns because your mob still are no closer to adequate answers on them. Not my fault. Address the questions and people don't ask them anymore. Another failing. 

 

Yes my comparison is short term pain. The Brexit realities are exactly that too. How that translates decades down the line is different but short term in constitutional matters isn't a couple years. We can't just sit and declare it'll be 100bn a year in perpetuity though as it ignores any courses a UK government may look to chart. You know...much like how Scotland would be in a similar situation if independent. 

 

Brexit like Scottish Independence isn't something that the full effects will or would be known for years. 

 

Ireland came up earlier. Ireland was a fiscal basket case for 50 years+ following their own independence. That's the type of time scales we need to talk when we're looking at huge constitutional upheaval. 

The UK government of a few months ago did take action to mitigate the Brexit cluster F.

 

it cost us £70 billion in a weekend and nearly bust the UK pensions market permanently. 
 

no one is denying that the full effects of Independence positive or negative will take years to cycle through but the key point is that Scotland will be determining its own direction rather than being taken there against its will, like Brexit.  

[The Mighty Thor]

25 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

And like sturgeon. He will be crucified by the electorate if he can’t answer “ what is a woman “? I’ve been laughed at about this issue for months but the identity politics / culture will play it’s part in who gets back in at Westminster 

Does Keith know what a woman is?
 

When are England going to address GRR? 

 

I can here you squeaking about it already and it’s years down the track 😂

[BlueRiver]

1 minute ago, The Mighty Thor said:

The UK government of a few months ago did take action to mitigate the Brexit cluster F.

 

it cost us £70 billion in a weekend and nearly bust the UK pensions market permanently. 
 

no one is denying that the full effects of Independence positive or negative will take years to cycle through but the key point is that Scotland will be determining its own direction rather than being taken there against its will, like Brexit.  

 

Yet leaving the EU was something you were happy to vote for in 2014. Interesting bunch the indy supporters. 

[The Mighty Thor]

20 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

👍👍👍 I am amazed at the cavalier attitude of some on this who readily dismiss the “ short term “ economic pain” of post Indy . They are the ones who never stop going on about how the Toaries have caused the current economic pain . So Indy pain ok ? Toarie pain no 

No cavalier attitude from me. I’ve already made that clear. There will be a cost which is as yet undefined and unquantifiable. 

[Korky]

27 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Independence may cause short term pain. 

 

[Guest]

What duration is "short term"? Is it like a generation?

[The Mighty Thor]

3 minutes ago, Jonkel Hoon said:

What duration is "short term"? Is it like a generation?

Great question. 

 

You tell me. 

 

How long and to what depth?

 

I have no way of knowing but if you do I'm all ears. 

Edited February 7, 2023 by The Mighty Thor

[BlueRiver]

All we can be certain of though is that if its similar to the costs of Brexit, then Thor will want to campaign to rejoin the UK. Otherwise his waffle about Starmer's Brexit position is just wind and pish. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Great question. 

 

You tell me. 

 

How long and to what depth?

 

I have no way of knowing but if you do I'm all ears. 

I've no idea. It  just seems like a sufficiently wooly phrase to use to downplay the financial impact of an independence vote.

[The Mighty Thor]

3 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

All we can be certain of though is that if its similar to the costs of Brexit, then Thor will want to campaign to rejoin the UK. Otherwise his waffle about Starmer's Brexit position is just wind and pish. 

You're determined to make that false equivalence stick. You've had 4 or 5 goes at it now. 

You and I both know that Keith doesn't have a Brexit position. He's hoping it'll all go away so he can get a shot at the helm of the Titanic before it dips below the waves forever. 

[The Mighty Thor]

4 minutes ago, Jonkel Hoon said:

I've no idea. It  just seems like a sufficiently wooly phrase to use to downplay the financial impact of an independence vote.

If you've got something a bit more concrete on the financial impacts of an independence we're not allowed a vote on I'd love to see them?

[il Duce McTarkin]

Thor could be the Minister for Scexit Opportunities.

 

Jockland's answer to the Mogg.

[periodictabledancer]

19 minutes ago, Jonkel Hoon said:

What duration is "short term"? Is it like a generation?

It's slightly longer than "oven ready".

[Roxy Hearts]

1 hour ago, The Mighty Thor said:

You’ll have noted that our man didn’t commit to who he thought should run Scotland earlier. 
 

He probably thinks Labour but even he knows that Is just a ridiculously stupid proposition.  

Labour are hopeless and he knows it! 

 

48 minutes ago, Korky said:

You really love the word ‘establishment’ don’t you? Usually preceded by ‘UK’ or ‘British’.

Of course there’s no such thing as a Scottish establishment!

The British/UK Establishment is corrupt to the absolute core. The Scottish Establishment is infested by undermining, childish, foolish morons like Ross, Sarwar, Kerr, Cole-Hamilton and their ilk. That part of the establishment are not only poor politicians but come across as awful people. Wouldn't trust a unionist politician in any capacity that has the responsibility to represent Scotland!

[The Mighty Thor]

Just now, Dirk McTarkin said:

Thor could be the Minister for Scexit Opportunities.

 

Jockland's answer to the Mogg.

I'm marginally less of a ****