Neilson and the plan B

[Bazzas right boot]

17 hours ago, mitch41 said:

Moon Howlers if you want but who was right about Cathro & Levein. It you can’t see that Neilson is not up to the job it’s nobody’s fault but yours. Many teams have had very good players and failed where many teams have had average players and have performed way above what is expected. A manager is the most important job in any club and while we have Neilson we will fail to be the club we have the potential to be. 

 

 

Where you? 

You must have been one of the folk who wanted Bob gone first time round and welcomed cathro. 

 

Were you also right about Stendel, did you think he'd do worse than CL and take us bottom or did you think things couldn't get worse than under CL, celebrate his sacking and welcome Stendel?

 

Tell the truth. 

 

Also If you just hate every manager and say their shite you'll be right eventually. 

Almost every manager will get sacked at some point. 

It's hardly mystic Meg territory. 

 

 

[Rudy T]

6 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Yet many posters bang on about not changing, imposing our game plan and almost everyone wanted the same set up v Dundee Utd. 

 

 

 

 

They only ‘bang on’ when we lose, had Neilson changed and won their would’ve been silence from the bangers! 
 

I do however think the bangers have got to Neilson. He’s playing more expansive and not sitting in after getting a lead, looks to stick with the same style which is very unlike him. He perhaps needs to do what’s good for the team and ignore the bangers!

[GinRummy]

Just now, Rudy T said:

They only ‘bang on’ when we lose, had Neilson changed and won their would’ve been silence from the bangers! 
 

I do however think the bangers have got to Neilson. He’s playing more expansive and not sitting in after getting a lead, looks to stick with the same style which is very unlike him. He perhaps needs to do what’s good for the team and ignore the bangers!

If he’s deciding the way he plays by what he thinks will be popular he might as well pack his bags and go. Fwiw I doubt he is. 

[jr ewing]

1 minute ago, Rudy T said:

They only ‘bang on’ when we lose, had Neilson changed and won their would’ve been silence from the bangers! 
 

I do however think the bangers have got to Neilson. He’s playing more expansive and not sitting in after getting a lead, looks to stick with the same style which is very unlike him. He perhaps needs to do what’s good for the team and ignore the bangers!

Has he ever changed things this season and won?

[Rogue Daddy]

1 minute ago, jr ewing said:

Has he ever changed things this season and won?

Yes, against Celtic - first game of the season. Took off GMS and brought on Haring, changed the game for the better.

[Rudy T]

7 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

If he’s deciding the way he plays by what he thinks will be popular he might as well pack his bags and go. Fwiw I doubt he is. 

I’m not so sure it’s not played a part in his thinking, he’s far more eager to please these days.

[Rogue Daddy]

15 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Yet many posters bang on about not changing, imposing our game plan and almost everyone wanted the same set up v Dundee Utd. 

 

 

 

 

That's a bit unfair. I, for one, was hoping for the same line-up as the UTD game... and the same result. But anyone could see early on, it wasn't working, something needed changed. Alexander did his homework on us and we didn't deserve anything - workrate and tactics were found wanting this weekend IMO. Bad day at the office.

[GinRummy]

2 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

I’m not so sure it’s not played a part in his thinking, he’s far more eager to please these days.

He’s trying to deliver what he said he would on day one. Entertaining attacking football, with two wingers. There was a bunch of other stuff said at the time. 

[Rudy T]

2 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

He’s trying to deliver what he said he would on day one. Entertaining attacking football, with two wingers. There was a bunch of other stuff said at the time. 

And I’d suggest that was after all the boring football suggestions after his first spell?

[jr ewing]

16 minutes ago, Rogue Daddy said:

Yes, against Celtic - first game of the season. Took off GMS and brought on Haring, changed the game for the better.

That's exactly what needed to be done against Motherwell home and away and Aberdeen. Everyone could see it and we're only the fans. 

[Tommy Brown]

3 hours ago, been here before said:

 

Nope

 

Just the South Stand away end that holds 4,856 fans. Im sure I read in the programme its to be named after Tommy McLean.

 

The Davie Coooer stand only holds 2,373 and is for the home support.

Ah sorry, got stands mixed up.

That's what I get for not following us away.

🥺

[GinRummy]

4 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

And I’d suggest that was after all the boring football suggestions after his first spell?

Could have been. Could have just been that’s what he wanted to do. Craig Levein was here and it was RN’s first job. You would expect him to change a bit now he’s had experience. 

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, Rogue Daddy said:

That's a bit unfair. I, for one, was hoping for the same line-up as the UTD game... and the same result. But anyone could see early on, it wasn't working, something needed changed. Alexander did his homework on us and we didn't deserve anything - workrate and tactics were found wanting this weekend IMO. Bad day at the office.

 

 

Fair. 

 

I didn't want the same team, I thought  Motherwell would bully us if we set up the same. 

 

Gino was one I wouldn't have started. 

 

Bobs, lucky his plan A is shit hot most of the time because his plan B needs work. 

 

Like many have said it seems no matter what letter of plan we implemented it seems too many players had a bad game.

 

Edited November 22, 2021 by Smith's right boot

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, GinRummy said:

He’s trying to deliver what he said he would on day one. Entertaining attacking football, with two wingers. There was a bunch of other stuff said at the time. 

 

 

Attacking Bob oot!

Pragmatic Bob in! 

 

That's my thinking. 

[bobskeldon]

2 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Yet many posters bang on about not changing, imposing our game plan and almost everyone wanted the same set up v Dundee Utd. 

 

 

 

 

There are 2 teams on the park who can influence the game. Rigidly sticking to a particular system regardless of what the opposition do is absolute nonsense!

[suds66]

5 hours ago, Rogue Daddy said:

The thing is.. he actually does. In our first game of the season against Celtic, after they equalised and were pinning us back - he took off GMS and put on Haring.  From that minute on, we were back in the game and eventually got the winner. A bit like taking one step back to move two forward.

 

The question is WHY wasn't the change made - everyone could see we were being bullied/overrun in midfield.. and from early on in the first half. Not to make a change was criminal and we got what we deserved. Eerily similar to the second half against Aberdeen. He (and his staff) just seem to be nowhere, some games.

 

I do agree with you that he is limited... but if we can all see what is going on in a game, why can/t he or his coaching staff. It was THAT obvious on Saturday.

Good post RD. That is the concern, more often that not this season he hasn't made the right decisions when necessary.

[Rogue Daddy]

19 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Like many have said it seems no matter what letter of plan we implemented it seems too many players had a bad game.

 

No argument there. Worst performance of the season… and what’s disappointing is that, up til now, I thought we have been very difficult to beat. 

[Rogue Daddy]

3 minutes ago, suds66 said:

Good post RD. That is the concern, more often that not this season he hasn't made the right decisions when necessary.

Yeah, this threads about a plan ‘b’ and I think it could be just taking a forward off and another midfielder on… quite simple, and not too disruptive to the preferred formation. If it worked against Celtic…

I love a bit of Football Manager on a Monday! 😂

[jr ewing]

Just now, Rogue Daddy said:

Yeah, this threads about a plan ‘b’ and I think it could be just taking a forward off and another midfielder on… quite simple, and not too disruptive to the preferred formation. If it worked against Celtic…

I love a bit of Football Manager on a Monday! 😂

We all can see it. Why can't he? Is he being helped by his assistants? Or are they just as thoughtless?

[GinRummy]

6 minutes ago, jr ewing said:

We all can see it. Why can't he? Is he being helped by his assistants? Or are they just as thoughtless?

He’s still quite a young manager. What is it, 6 seasons roughly he’s had. He maybe tinkered too much last time here and has yet to find a balance. I was frustrated last season by his reluctance to change but he’ll know himself he needs to act faster this season. 

[Rogue Daddy]

18 minutes ago, jr ewing said:

We all can see it. Why can't he? Is he being helped by his assistants? Or are they just as thoughtless?

You would hope his assistants would speak up, certainly. These are the games where you learn more about yourself and your team… hopefully some lessons learned. 🤞

[Lfhearts]

4 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

Very few managers make changes before 60 minutes unless getting slaughtered. They always think they can get their original plan reinforced at half time and give them 10-15 mins of second half to see if they were listening. 

Yip but he thinks he is "the chosen one" up here unfortunately.

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, Lfhearts said:

Yip but he thinks he is "the chosen one" up here unfortunately.

 

[Lfhearts]

Just now, Smith's right boot said:

 

Now we all know you are the First President but "Bob" as you call him reckons he is untouchable and tactics are his forte.

[Bazzas right boot]

27 minutes ago, Lfhearts said:

Now we all know you are the First President but "Bob" as you call him reckons he is untouchable and tactics are his forte.

How does Bob reckon he's untouchable? 

 

What ridiculous notion have you made up in your head and believe that much you spout it on a forum. 

 

Is he strolling about Tynecastle like John Travolta at a 70's disco? 

 

Do they players think he's arrogant? 

 

What is your logic behind this thought? 

[Lfhearts]

"they" players??? As in the players? No it's me that thinks that, as the forum is about opinions and you spout yours often enough and it's not a three line whip. 

[Vlad Magic]

1 hour ago, Lfhearts said:

Now we all know you are the First President but "Bob" as you call him reckons he is untouchable and tactics are his forte.

A bold claim.

 

Any evidence or is simply your “opinion”?

 

If it’s the latter I suggest next time start your “opinion” with the words “I think” 👍

[NB GIN]

8 hours ago, JamboGraham said:

Also worth noting that Aberdeen, Dundee Utd, Hearts, Hibs and Motherwell have collectively played 32 away games so far. 8 wins, 12 draws, 12 losses. Away wins are treasured items in this league. None of these clubs have won more than 2 away yet.

That’s it in a nutshell 

[suds66]

5 hours ago, Rogue Daddy said:

Yeah, this threads about a plan ‘b’ and I think it could be just taking a forward off and another midfielder on… quite simple, and not too disruptive to the preferred formation. If it worked against Celtic…

I love a bit of Football Manager on a Monday! 😂

👍

[JimmyCant]

6 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

How does Bob reckon he's untouchable? 

 

What ridiculous notion have you made up in your head and believe that much you spout it on a forum. 

 

Is he strolling about Tynecastle like John Travolta at a 70's disco? 

 

Do they players think he's arrogant? 

 

What is your logic behind this thought? 

I think ‘Bob’ probably feels the polar opposite of untouchable. First time round, jumped before he got pushed IMO. Big percentage didn’t want him back. Almost 100% wanted him sacked after Brora and a big percentage wanted him gone in the summer. And that was AFTER getting us up

 

A manager like that, with so little trust from the fan base is only a short couple of steps away from the sack. He’ll never have the full trust of the fan base. Too many abysmal results. His latest one on Saturday past.Too many mistakes. (Not covering Scott brown going to midfield the last big one)He’s got no chance of surviving another contract discussion unless he wins the cup or finishes a very strong 3rd. Ordinary/Average is not going to be enough for him. Significant numbers of Fans just don’t like him or don’t trust him or both. That’s only going to end one way -  eventually 

Edited November 23, 2021 by JimmyCant

[Clerry Jambo]

2 hours ago, JimmyCant said:

I think ‘Bob’ probably feels the polar opposite of untouchable. First time round, jumped before he got pushed IMO. Big percentage didn’t want him back. Almost 100% wanted him sacked after Brora and a big percentage wanted him gone in the summer. And that was AFTER getting us up

 

A manager like that, with so little trust from the fan base is only a short couple of steps away from the sack. He’ll never have the full trust of the fan base. Too many abysmal results. His latest one on Saturday past.Too many mistakes. (Not covering Scott brown going to midfield the last big one)He’s got no chance of surviving another contract discussion unless he wins the cup or finishes a very strong 3rd. Ordinary/Average is not going to be enough for him. Significant numbers of Fans just don’t like him or don’t trust him or both. That’s only going to end one way -  eventually 

Excellent post Jimmy

[Lfhearts]

8 hours ago, Vlad Magic said:

A bold claim.

 

Any evidence or is simply your “opinion”?

 

If it’s the latter I suggest next time start your “opinion” with the words “I think” 👍

Duh read above.

 

 

 

[NB GIN]

On 20/11/2021 at 17:14, Walter Bishop said:

100% agree. We have to be able to adjust away from home, it’s not a coincidence we don’t perform the same way as we do at Tynecastle. 
 

Dundee United played out from the back which left spaces for our front 3 to get in behind, Motherwell play hoof ball so tactics had to change for today’s game, We were totally overpowered and over run today and it was obvious to see this after 10 mins.  

I would rather we continue playing the way we do than compete at hoofball

 

we are improving first year back the football is good relax we are going well overall. The last thing I want to see is Craig Levein football. 
 

Give the manager to the end of the season and see where we are 

 

 

[bobskeldon]

1 minute ago, NB GIN said:

I would rather we continue playing the way we do than compete at hoofball

 

we are improving first year back the football is good relax we are going well overall. The last thing I want to see is Craig Levein football. 
 

Give the manager to the end of the season and see where we are 

 

 

Advocating CL type football? Certainly not me, I am just looking for a more pragmatic approach to how the team is set up away from home. I still think we will finish third BUT given the points dropped due to what appears to be a blind spot for RN, that might not be good enough to convince me he is good enough for this and the even better next group of players!

[MattyK82]

21 hours ago, JamboGraham said:

Also worth noting that Aberdeen, Dundee Utd, Hearts, Hibs and Motherwell have collectively played 32 away games so far. 8 wins, 12 draws, 12 losses. Away wins are treasured items in this league. None of these clubs have won more than 2 away yet.

 

 

Hearts away form 

 

W2  D3  L2  - 9 pts out of 21

 

DU away form 

 

W2 D3 L2 - 9 pts out of 21

 

Motherwell away form 

 

W2   D1   L3  - 7 pts out of 18

 

Hibs away form 

 

W1   D2   L2 - 5 pts out of 15

 

Aberdeen away form 

 

W1 D2 L4 - 5 pts out of 21

 

Our away form compared to our nearest challengers is not bad at all. That’s not to say it’s good enough. Away form has been a problem for all teams out with the OF for as long as I can remember. Our last two performances at Pittodrie and Fir Park have been very poor. There’s no escaping that. We need to be able to ‘win ugly’ in games like Saturday. It was a battle and one which the Motherwell players were simply more up for - which isn’t good enough. 

That being said, I’ve seen enough of this team to know they are capable of beating any team in the league and are capable of putting on a very polished  performance for good measure. 
 

 

 

[mitch41]

On 22/11/2021 at 06:10, Section Q said:

Take break mate.

Take a Kit Kat mate.

[sirwalter]

10 hours ago, JimmyCant said:

I think ‘Bob’ probably feels the polar opposite of untouchable. First time round, jumped before he got pushed IMO. Big percentage didn’t want him back. Almost 100% wanted him sacked after Brora and a big percentage wanted him gone in the summer. And that was AFTER getting us up

 

A manager like that, with so little trust from the fan base is only a short couple of steps away from the sack. He’ll never have the full trust of the fan base. Too many abysmal results. His latest one on Saturday past.Too many mistakes. (Not covering Scott brown going to midfield the last big one)He’s got no chance of surviving another contract discussion unless he wins the cup or finishes a very strong 3rd. Ordinary/Average is not going to be enough for him. Significant numbers of Fans just don’t like him or don’t trust him or both. That’s only going to end one way -  eventually 

Please define "significant" and provide details of your sampling methodology.

[jr ewing]

6 hours ago, NB GIN said:

I would rather we continue playing the way we do than compete at hoofball

 

we are improving first year back the football is good relax we are going well overall. The last thing I want to see is Craig Levein football. 
 

Give the manager to the end of the season and see where we are 

 

 

Mixing it up a bit and making the opposition think about it would help, but is he capable mmmm maybe not. 

[lost in space]

3 hours ago, MattyK82 said:

 

 

Hearts away form 

 

W2  D3  L2  - 9 pts out of 21

 

DU away form 

 

W2 D3 L2 - 9 pts out of 21

 

 

Motherwell away form 

 

W2   D1   L3  - 7 pts out of 18

 

Hibs away form 

 

W1   D2   L2 - 5 pts out of 15

 

Aberdeen away form 

 

W1 D2 L4 - 5 pts out of 21

 

Our away form compared to our nearest challengers is not bad at all. That’s not to say it’s good enough. Away form has been a problem for all teams out with the OF for as long as I can remember. Our last two performances at Pittodrie and Fir Park have been very poor. There’s no escaping that. We need to be able to ‘win ugly’ in games like Saturday. It was a battle and one which the Motherwell players were simply more up for - which isn’t good enough. 

That being said, I’ve seen enough of this team to know they are capable of beating any team in the league and are capable of putting on a very polished  performance for good measure. 
 

 

 

Thanks Matty - good stats and surprising to me. 

I agree that we are capable of beating any team in our league. We have, in my opinion, mostly better players than the other clubs you have listed.

Maybe we need to win the midfield battle before we can win the game.

[mitch41]

On 22/11/2021 at 08:58, frankblack said:

 

Give it a rest FFS.

 

You are like a stuck record who wants to sack the manager the first time we lose a game.  Doesn't matter who the manager is you will fill your breeks at the first bad result and spend thereafter to bump your gums on here calling for their head.  Every manager out thread going back twenty years must be full of your panic merchant rants.

 

Your credibility is non-existent.  If you can't deal with supporting a club like Hearts through its ups and downs then go find something else to do with your time.

 

 

I do support Hearts and go through the ups and downs but for the 3000 plus of us that witnessed the Motherwell game on Saturday I find that performance unacceptable. Saturday was worse than Aberdeen, Ross County and St Johnstone all away games. Playing poorly at Tynecastle against teams that at that time we’re toiling and only drawing showed Neilson to be lacking the management skill to help the players/team respond to the opposition’s tactics. Aberdeen, Hibs and Dundee all walked away this draws and we lost 6 points and Neilson comes out with,as he always does, stupid excuses. More and more fans are waking up to the fact that Hearts are lacking in the managing/coaching side of the team and I really feel for our players and support who deserve better.

 

 

 

 

[mitch41]

On 22/11/2021 at 13:17, Hectormasson said:

Spot on👍🇶🇦🇶🇦

You know there has been next to nothing on here disagreeing compared with my posts regarding Neilson. The feedback I have had on Facebook, Twitter, fellow Jambos and mates/family have been agreeing that Neilson isn’t up to the job and should go . Now that Ann Budge is no longer owner of Hearts all we can hope for is that the Board, CEO, JS & FOH can come together and find a management team that can take Hearts FC forward by playing attractive attacking football while challenging for honours.

[The Real Maroonblood]

36 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

I do support Hearts and go through the ups and downs but for the 3000 plus of us that witnessed the Motherwell game on Saturday I find that performance unacceptable. Saturday was worse than Aberdeen, Ross County and St Johnstone all away games. Playing poorly at Tynecastle against teams that at that time we’re toiling and only drawing showed Neilson to be lacking the management skill to help the players/team respond to the opposition’s tactics. Aberdeen, Hibs and Dundee all walked away this draws and we lost 6 points and Neilson comes out with,as he always does, stupid excuses. More and more fans are waking up to the fact that Hearts are lacking in the managing/coaching side of the team and I really feel for our players and support who deserve better.

 

 

 

 

Good post.

[Bongo 1874]

Just now, mitch41 said:

I do support Hearts and go through the ups and downs but for the 3000 plus of us that witnessed the Motherwell game on Saturday I find that performance unacceptable. Saturday was worse than Aberdeen, Ross County and St Johnstone all away games. Playing poorly at Tynecastle against teams that at that time we’re toiling and only drawing showed Neilson to be lacking the management skill to help the players/team respond to the opposition’s tactics. Aberdeen, Hibs and Dundee all walked away this draws and we lost 6 points and Neilson comes out with,as he always does, stupid excuses. More and more fans are waking up to the fact that Hearts are lacking in the managing/coaching side of the team and I really feel for our players and support who deserve better.

 

 

 

 

Post of the year 👏👏. 

[MattyK82]

22 minutes ago, lost in space said:

Thanks Matty - good stats and surprising to me. 

I agree that we are capable of beating any team in our league. We have, in my opinion, mostly better players than the other clubs you have listed.

Maybe we need to win the midfield battle before we can win the game.

Yeah I’d agree. This is a strong squad with, for the first time in many years, a semblance of balance and depth. 
 

Absolutely. The game at Pittodrie was a glaring example of losing the midfield battle in the 2nd half. Some of the games this season, predominantly at home - the midfield combination of Beni & Devlin has been very effective. However, in away games, we need to be more alive to the possibility that teams, like Motherwell will turn the occasion into, first and foremost a battle and prepare ourselves better than we showed on Saturday.
 

 

[Ex member of the SaS]

To be clear we will not win every game and we won't play silky football every game but when the fans can see we are being over run in the first 10 to 15 minutes of a game it's the manager and his teams job to make changes. By refusing to adapt he has shown he either can't see what is going wrong or refuses to admit he needs to act. By waiting until 10 to 15 minutes into the second half he leaves the team with a mountain to climb. The simple fact that in after match interviews, he blames all and sundry, looks to me like he thinks he knows best and it never his fault.

Slightly off subject, this is why I prefer a manager to sit high in the stands and relay info the bench, from there he can clearly see where the team is lacking.

[Rogue Daddy]

3 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

To be clear we will not win every game and we won't play silky football every game but when the fans can see we are being over run in the first 10 to 15 minutes of a game it's the manager and his teams job to make changes. By refusing to adapt he has shown he either can't see what is going wrong or refuses to admit he needs to act. By waiting until 10 to 15 minutes into the second half he leaves the team with a mountain to climb. The simple fact that in after match interviews, he blames all and sundry, looks to me like he thinks he knows best and it never his fault.

Slightly off subject, this is why I prefer a manager to sit high in the stands and relay info the bench, from there he can clearly see where the team is lacking.

Got to admit... I don't know why more managers don't do this. At least for the first half... I think it was Walter Smith that used to do this. Always thought it was a good idea.

Edited November 23, 2021 by Rogue Daddy

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, mitch41 said:

You know there has been next to nothing on here disagreeing compared with my posts regarding Neilson. The feedback I have had on Facebook, Twitter, fellow Jambos and mates/family have been agreeing that Neilson isn’t up to the job and should go . Now that Ann Budge is no longer owner of Hearts all we can hope for is that the Board, CEO, JS & FOH can come together and find a management team that can take Hearts FC forward by playing attractive attacking football while challenging for honours.

She’s still got the ultimate say on whether the manager is sacked, and every other decision if she so chooses, unfortunately. 

Edited November 23, 2021 by Pasquale for King

[Bull's-eye]

22 hours ago, bobskeldon said:

There are 2 teams on the park who can influence the game. Rigidly sticking to a particular system regardless of what the opposition do is absolute nonsense!

 

Plan A is possession based, that means we need to keep the ball, if we lose it we must get it back a.s.a.p.

We look rubbish when we're out of possession and don't do the hard yards to win the ball back.

It really doesn't matter how many plans you have or how you set up tactically if when out out of possession you don't work hard enough to retain the ball. If the opposition are of sufficient quality or fight harder then we will inevitably lose...

The Bobster needs to put a stop to the lack lustre performances and inconsistencies, he's the manager and needs to find a way to get that sorted.

[mitch41]

2 hours ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Good post.

Thanks. I know it takes some time for a few fans to realise what it takes to be a good manager but most come round when it’s usually too late and the season is done.

[mitch41]

2 hours ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Post of the year 👏👏. 

Thanks