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Neilson and the plan B


Scott Leitch

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thecarnbeejambo

it should now be obvious that robbie has reached the limit of his ability..with joe savage looking like he will do a decent job it will be wasted if the players he signs are coached by a tactically inept manager ( and coaching staff ) dun. utd. game apart which was so open it could have been 8- 4 or any score in between. we have been poor upfront. nando looks like he is running with his knees tied with string.. and boyce.. i know he is just back from injury but could anyone see him over a season scoring many from open play.. gms is really no better... still wondering about ginnelly... and i dont think woodburn will be missed when his loan spell is up.with the changes behind the scene at tynie. maybe they will take a serious look at robbie and decide that he cannot take us any further. today pretty much like aberdeen game.. totally unable to change things when teams start to get at us...oh well.. hhgh

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Scott Leitch

The sad thing is. He wasn't sacked after losing to that pub team last season. He's flucked us to 3rd so chances now? 

 

Exactly. 

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Vlad Magic
1 hour ago, Greedy Jambo said:

I'd trade Neilson in for a 6 pack of cream eggs. 


Not a Terry’s chocolate orange?

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SpruceBringsteen

Motherwell played as we should have today (and tbh every day) - they got up in our face, were aggressive and bullied us.

 

Neilson, Levein, Cathro, MacPhee, Stendel all think/thought we should play intelligent/fancy systems that allow us to win by being clever. It's ****ing horseshit.

 

We're Hearts. We're the distantly third best team in a horseshit league and that's all we'll ever be. Stop acting like we're ****ing 1990s Ajax and act like we're a team that should comfortably horse 9 out of 11 teams simply through knocking our dish in, just like any of them seem to do anytime they're successful against us. Rocket scientists sent to do the job of a joiner.

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billybalfour

I am no fan of Robbie's after the Birkikara,Brora and Hibs calamities but what on earth are his 2 assistants doing.Almost every poster who was at the game said it was obvious after 10 minutes it was going wrong so why are they not getting in Robbie's ear about it.

Personally I would like to see Stevie Crawford back with him as I don't rate that pair so far.

I am willing to give him at least 1 and probably 2 windows to get the players in/out that he requires but I really would like to see some improvement in away performances on a consistent basis.

I am still in the 'Only Hearts ' camp so refuse to go to away games but it would be nice to actually think I was cutting off my nose to spite my face.Hopefully it improves to make it worth going again for all of you who are travelling.

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Rogue Daddy
33 minutes ago, Leveins Battalion said:

Pretty rare for a team to play as woefully as we did for 90 minutes,normally a manager makes a change,tactically, personal etc.

This is what makes me angry… I can take a defeat, but not like that today. We were out-thought and out-fought from the start. We were pish for 90 Minutes. We were second to EVERY ball and second to every second ball! Our first shot on target came around 60 minutes… and RN subbed him (Woodburn) immediately after! We seem to set up exactly the same every game but play differently!?! Aberdeen was bad, but today was worse - the coaching staff got it wrong and didn’t know/want  to change it and the players attitude/work rate/performance was woeful. 

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Greedy Jambo
1 hour ago, Vlad Magic said:


Not a Terry’s chocolate orange?

 

Nah, not into that orange muck, mint stuff as well.. tastes like toothpaste. 

 

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Fort Vallance

Any criticism will have Neilson and the apologists and the press saying it was an over reaction to a one off performance. (See Brora) anyone watching on a regular basis will know differently. Just GTF.

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3 minutes ago, Fort Vallance said:

Any criticism will have Neilson and the apologists and the press saying it was an over reaction to a one off performance. (See Brora) anyone watching on a regular basis will know differently. Just GTF.

We were brilliant in our last game and have been generally decent so far this season. 

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2 hours ago, billybalfour said:

I am no fan of Robbie's after the Birkikara,Brora and Hibs calamities but what on earth are his 2 assistants doing.Almost every poster who was at the game said it was obvious after 10 minutes it was going wrong so why are they not getting in Robbie's ear about it.

Personally I would like to see Stevie Crawford back with him as I don't rate that pair so far.

I am willing to give him at least 1 and probably 2 windows to get the players in/out that he requires but I really would like to see some improvement in away performances on a consistent basis.

I am still in the 'Only Hearts ' camp so refuse to go to away games but it would be nice to actually think I was cutting off my nose to spite my face.Hopefully it improves to make it worth going again for all of you who are travelling.

I was listening to hearts tv audio and both Laurie and Robert could see where we were going wrong. Needs to freshen the team up next week. Even if rest beni and try mceneff alongside Devlin. Moore at right back and halkett back in the middle

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Fort Vallance
1 minute ago, Ari Gold said:

We were brilliant in our last game and have been generally decent so far this season. 

We've been generally decent against teams that have come out and played. We've been crap against the teams that sit in or lump it. A good coach would have found a way to counter that. Neilson isn't a good coach.

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whanganui jambo
3 hours ago, glynnlondon said:

Paterson was scoring and getting him out of jail we were in free fall compounded afterwards with the rank incompetence of those in charge.

I like most was not bothered when he left to Milton Keynes.

True, it didn't seem too bad a thing until we found out his replacement was the Ian Cathro Experiment.

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Crap? We've lost the 2nd least amount of games this season. Are we perfect? We're 3rd in the league. 

 

Is Neilson perfect? No. But let's not go over the top about how bad we've been this season either. 

 

We've actually been not bad. 

Edited by Ari Gold
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Vlad Magic
13 minutes ago, Fort Vallance said:

Any criticism will have Neilson and the apologists and the press saying it was an over reaction to a one off performance. (See Brora) anyone watching on a regular basis will know differently. Just GTF.


Help me out please?

 

Im undecided on Neilson. So I’m neither an apologist or a hater.

 

We have lost twice in the league so far. You have hinted to watching regularly. 
 

Why should he get to ****?

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Just now, Vlad Magic said:


Help me out please?

 

Im undecided on Neilson. So I’m neither an apologist or a hater.

 

We have lost twice in the league so far. You have hinted to watching regularly. 
 

Why should he get to ****?

I don’t think he should gtf either but we’ve lost twice in the last three games and for me those performances, rather than the results, are really worrying. 

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Vlad Magic
8 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

I don’t think he should gtf either but we’ve lost twice in the last three games and for me those performances, rather than the results, are really worrying. 


I agree. Worryingly we have had complete polar opposite performances. 
 

Ive rarely seen such good to bad to be honest? What needs working out is why not get rid?

 

Seasons are long drawn out processes with many many variables.
 

I still think this is a team that hasn’t found a reliable groove yet. I think Neilson still hasn’t worked out his style with his players yet and I think the starting 11 lets the opposition dictate what’s going on and THEN reacts rather than they dictate and let them react.

 

When we dictate the play we do well. When we don’t we don’t.

 

I think Neilson has the talent in his players. I think he has to work on the mental side of these players.

 

Pull them individually to one side and gee them up. Then in groups by defence, midfield and attackers and finally as a group. A team. 
 

I think we could do a whole lot better if the 11 that take the field walk out there thinking they can beat anyone.

 

They can but right now they don’t quite believe they can.

 

Over to you Robbie.

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24 minutes ago, Fort Vallance said:

We've been generally decent against teams that have come out and played. We've been crap against the teams that sit in or lump it. A good coach would have found a way to counter that. Neilson isn't a good coach.

This is the crux of the matter. Some coaches have worked out that if you don't allow us to pass out from the back, then playing it long pretty much guarantees they get the ball back with the size of our front 3. Cochrane was particularly guilty of lumping it down the left for Barrie Mack to compete against the biggest lump in their team. Craig also seemed very quick to go for the long ball option, and i think its the fewest number of times we have passed out from the back in any game. Mwell stuck three men on our 18 yard line and we seemed unable to work out how to get it round them, so Beni and Devlin saw very little of the ball, in an attacking sense.

We need to get this sorted, or all the other teams will play this way, and make life very difficult for us.

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1 minute ago, Vlad Magic said:


I agree. Worryingly we have had complete polar opposite performances. 
 

Ive rarely seen such good to bad to be honest? What needs working out is why not get rid?

 

Seasons are long drawn out processes with many many variables.
 

I still think this is a team that hasn’t found a reliable groove yet. I think Neilson still hasn’t worked out his style with his players yet and I think the starting 11 lets the opposition dictate what’s going on and THEN reacts rather than they dictate and let them react.

 

When we dictate the play we do well. When we don’t we don’t.

 

I think Neilson has the talent in his players. I think he has to work on the mental side of these players.

 

Pull them individually to one side and gee them up. Then in groups by defence, midfield and attackers and finally as a group. A team. 
 

I think we could do a whole lot better if the 11 that take the field walk out there thinking they can beat anyone.

 

They can but right now they don’t quite believe they can.

 

Over to you Robbie.

All fair points. I’m sure even Robbie would admit he should get more from the players at times. 

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1 minute ago, Vlad Magic said:


I agree. Worryingly we have had complete polar opposite performances. 
 

Ive rarely seen such good to bad to be honest? What needs working out is why not get rid?

 

Seasons are long drawn out processes with many many variables.
 

I still think this is a team that hasn’t found a reliable groove yet. I think Neilson still hasn’t worked out his style with his players yet and I think the starting 11 lets the opposition dictate what’s going on and THEN reacts rather than they dictate and let them react.

 

When we dictate the play we do well. When we don’t we don’t.

 

I think Neilson has the talent in his players. I think he has to work on the mental side of these players.

 

Pull them individually to one side and gee them up. Then in groups by defence, midfield and attackers and finally as a group. A team. 
 

I think we could do a whole lot better if the 11 that take the field walk out there thinking they can beat anyone.

 

They can but right now they don’t quite believe they can.

 

Over to you Robbie.

I'm not sure that's right. I think we try to play the same way in every game. The problem is when it isn't working, for whatever reason,  we can't change it.

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Rick Sanchez
2 hours ago, SpruceBringsteen said:

Motherwell played as we should have today (and tbh every day) - they got up in our face, were aggressive and bullied us.

 

Neilson, Levein, Cathro, MacPhee, Stendel all think/thought we should play intelligent/fancy systems that allow us to win by being clever. It's ****ing horseshit.

 

We're Hearts. We're the distantly third best team in a horseshit league and that's all we'll ever be. Stop acting like we're ****ing 1990s Ajax and act like we're a team that should comfortably horse 9 out of 11 teams simply through knocking our dish in, just like any of them seem to do anytime they're successful against us. Rocket scientists sent to do the job of a joiner.

 

Everyone said after the 4-0 against Celtic that we should play like that every week. We never played with that intensity again.

 

Second half of the cup final against them...again...play with that intensity.

 

No idea why professionals can't...Klopp and Bielsa demand it. It's nothing to do with ability. It should be set as a standard. Sign players willing and capable.

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soonbe110
4 hours ago, Vic Vespa said:

How we play, we've been found out, teams know it now and can easily counter it, was good while it lasted, downhill from here  .....

Really found our in the last game before today weren’t we? 

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soonbe110
1 minute ago, Rick Sanchez said:

 

Everyone said after the 4-0 against Celtic that we should play like that every week. We never played with that intensity again.

 

Second half of the cup final against them...again...play with that intensity.

 

No idea why professionals can't...Klopp and Bielsa demand it. It's nothing to do with ability. It should be set as a standard. Sign players willing and capable.

Where are Leeds in the league? 

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32 minutes ago, Ari Gold said:

Crap? We've lost the 2nd least amount of games this season. Are we perfect? We're 3rd in the league. 

 

Is Neilson perfect? No. But let's not go over the top about how bad we've been this season either. 

 

We've actually been not bad. 

Just you accept these performances then mate because we are 3rd👌

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soonbe110
4 hours ago, Gambo said:

His plan B was a like for like substitution. Take off Woodburn  move Ginnelly to his position and Boyce into Ginnellys.

 

We need better than Neilson to move forwards as a team. He IS holding us back.

 

Not one of the 3300 were surprised by todays showing.....that says it all.

Think you are wrong there Gambo. Otherwise virtually none of the posters in the match thread prior to kick off attended the game. Vast majority on the thread were predicting a Hearts win. 
For the record I wasn’t, I anticipated that we would struggle today given the two week break and the amount of back-slapping that has gone on after the United game. Sadly my fears were founded. How many times have we have we had that false dawn? 

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Rick Sanchez
2 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Where are Leeds in the league? 

 

You're basing it on eleven games of one season?

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soonbe110
Just now, Rick Sanchez said:

 

You're basing it on eleven games of one season?

Basing it on current form. Only thing that’s relevant.

Liverpool hadn’t won recent league matches prior to tonight.  They didn’t have the same intensity in those games as they had tonight.  In fact they didn’t have the same intensity tonight until Klopp and Arteta squared up. Motherwells intensity was spot on today. Didn’t have the same intensity when they visited tynecastle.  It’s not something that you can just turn on and off 

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7 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Think you are wrong there Gambo. Otherwise virtually none of the posters in the match thread prior to kick off attended the game. Vast majority on the thread were predicting a Hearts win. 
For the record I wasn’t, I anticipated that we would struggle today given the two week break and the amount of back-slapping that has gone on after the United game. Sadly my fears were founded. How many times have we have we had that false dawn? 

Most folk would say eith our squad/resources/fans we should be beating Motherwell (or at least competing with) away from home 

 

The weak acceptance of these results by the noisy minority is what will hold us back.

 

Thankfully, from what I hear/am told, Savage and the Players are not happy.

 

 

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Vlad Magic
13 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

All fair points. I’m sure even Robbie would admit he should get more from the players at times. 

 

13 minutes ago, Hmfc1965 said:

I'm not sure that's right. I think we try to play the same way in every game. The problem is when it isn't working, for whatever reason,  we can't change it.


I agree and go back to the point I made. When it’s good it’s very good. However when it’s bad it’s very bad.

 

Its still a team thrown together. The starting 11 this year hasn’t had a season ffs. 
 

Yes I am making excuses. If this was in the whole the same team as last season I would be asking serious questions of Robbie. 
 

Right now all things considered I’m not.

 

Some serious work behind the scenes on the mental side of the game and dictating what WE do and not the opposition and I think we will do OK 👍

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soonbe110
4 minutes ago, Gambo said:

Most folk would say eith our squad/resources/fans we should be beating Motherwell (or at least competing with) away from home 

 

The weak acceptance of these results by the noisy minority is what will hold us back.

 

Thankfully, from what I hear/am told, Savage and the Players are not happy.

 

 

So, AN on his way in? 

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4 minutes ago, Gambo said:

Most folk would say eith our squad/resources/fans we should be beating Motherwell (or at least competing with) away from home 

 

The weak acceptance of these results by the noisy minority is what will hold us back.

 

Thankfully, from what I hear/am told, Savage and the Players are not happy.

 

 

The players should maybe put more effort in. That would make me happier, if not them. Neilson has faults but lack of effort is just unprofessional.  

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soonbe110
1 minute ago, Super_Hans said:

Staggering that he didn't change the formation, make a substitution or do both at half-time. 

Changed the formation early n second half. 

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2 hours ago, Rogue Daddy said:

This is what makes me angry… I can take a defeat, but not like that today. We were out-thought and out-fought from the start. We were pish for 90 Minutes. We were second to EVERY ball and second to every second ball! Our first shot on target came around 60 minutes… and RN subbed him (Woodburn) immediately after! We seem to set up exactly the same every game but play differently!?! Aberdeen was bad, but today was worse - the coaching staff got it wrong and didn’t know/want  to change it and the players attitude/work rate/performance was woeful. 

Can't expand on that.  Says it as it is or was......pathetic.

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7 minutes ago, Gambo said:

Most folk would say eith our squad/resources/fans we should be beating Motherwell (or at least competing with) away from home 

 

The weak acceptance of these results by the noisy minority is what will hold us back.

 

Thankfully, from what I hear/am told, Savage and the Players are not happy.

 

 

I should f+++++g think not.

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2 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Changed the formation early n second half. 

And what a difference that made!

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Super_Hans
1 minute ago, soonbe110 said:

Changed the formation early n second half. 

Didn't change it right away. Looked like he gave it the old I'm giving you 10/15 mins chat at half-time. Nothing improved. Brought on Boyce. 5 mins later, 2-0 down and a man down. Game gone.

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merseyjambo

The same issue that concerned a lot of people last season is rearing it’s ugly head again - the lack of a Plan B/inability to break teams who sit in down.

 

It was obvious from 5-10 minutes in, we needed to try and change shape but instead we got nothing. 

 

The next few weeks are going to have a bearing on whether he got lucky early this season or has he got the ability to shake it up and try something different.

 

St Mirren and Livi will play to stifle and frustrate us. It’s in their managers DNA. 
 

Celtic and Rangers are free hits. We have zero to lose.

 

We then have on paper 3 extremely winnable games before to Hobos.

 

 

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32 minutes ago, chrisg8 said:

Just you accept these performances then mate because we are 3rd👌

I've watched hearts long enough to know there will be ups and downs. Was today good enough? No. Are we still on course for our best season in years? Yes. 

 

If we follow up the next 3 or 4 games in the same manner, then it's time to start asking questions. 

 

Im not going to overreact cause we've lost at Pittodrie and Fir Park. 

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47 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Think you are wrong there Gambo. Otherwise virtually none of the posters in the match thread prior to kick off attended the game. Vast majority on the thread were predicting a Hearts win. 
For the record I wasn’t, I anticipated that we would struggle today given the two week break and the amount of back-slapping that has gone on after the United game. Sadly my fears were founded. How many times have we have we had that false dawn? 

RN would be no where near Tynecastle if not for AB wanting a safe pair of hands, any manager should and would have got us back to where we should be (SPFL).

But with the players and the budget he has under achieved and always will, why cause he has one game plan....and that's it.

Any team that sit in and play counter attacking football ****ed.

Any team play 3-4 midfield again ****ed.

And now we are getting found out, that's how to play against us, have serious concerns for the rest of the season under RN.

One trick pony

 

 

Edited by bawheed
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Scott Leitch
58 minutes ago, Gambo said:

Most folk would say eith our squad/resources/fans we should be beating Motherwell (or at least competing with) away from home 

 

The weak acceptance of these results by the noisy minority is what will hold us back.

 

Thankfully, from what I hear/am told, Savage and the Players are not happy.

 

 

****ing terrifying some are still accepting this shite dishes up. 

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6 hours ago, Scott Leitch said:

It was obvious to everyone we were getting out numbered and overran in midfield. He watched this and done nothing about it. 

 

For me this is why Neilson will never be the right man. 

 

Horseshit 

He has some very good players just now and I feel like it's been masking inadequacies in his tactics. I also feel like he's carried by Savage. I can see him being given a new contract though as much as I don't think it would be the best idea.

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2 hours ago, Ari Gold said:

Crap? We've lost the 2nd least amount of games this season. Are we perfect? We're 3rd in the league. 

 

Is Neilson perfect? No. But let's not go over the top about how bad we've been this season either. 

 

We've actually been not bad. 

In spite of Bob. 

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Scott Leitch
24 minutes ago, Sertse said:

He has some very good players just now and I feel like it's been masking inadequacies in his tactics. I also feel like he's carried by Savage. I can see him being given a new contract though as much as I don't think it would be the best idea.

Yip. Bang on 

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1 hour ago, Ari Gold said:

I've watched hearts long enough to know there will be ups and downs. Was today good enough? No. Are we still on course for our best season in years? Yes. 

 

If we follow up the next 3 or 4 games in the same manner, then it's time to start asking questions. 

 

Im not going to overreact cause we've lost at Pittodrie and Fir Park. 

If you can't see that Robbie Neilson isn't up to the job of managing Hearts by now you'll never know. Today was worse than Aberdeen away and no manager of Hearts should survive after these gutless, clueless displays.  Joe Savage has to advise the CEO to sack Neilson and bring in a real manager that is up to the job.

Edited by mitch41
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12 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

If you can't see that Robbie Neilson isn't up to the job of managing Hearts by now you'll never know. Today was worse than Aberdeen away and no manager of Hearts should survive after these gutless, clueless displays.  Joe Savage has to advise the CEO to sack Neilson and bring in a real manager that is up to the job.

When we finish 3rd, today will have been long forgotten about. 

 

I'm not Neilson biggest fan but we've looked very good at times but we've also looked poor. On the whole, it's been a decent start to the season. Chill out, we've lost 2 games. If we're 6th by Christmas then start asking questions. 

Edited by Ari Gold
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Pasquale for King
3 hours ago, mitch41 said:

If you can't see that Robbie Neilson isn't up to the job of managing Hearts by now you'll never know. Today was worse than Aberdeen away and no manager of Hearts should survive after these gutless, clueless displays.  Joe Savage has to advise the CEO to sack Neilson and bring in a real manager that is up to the job.

Even if Savage did do that McKinley would have to ask Budge and the board, they won’t sack him. 

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