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Neilson and the plan B


Scott Leitch

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He survived Brora. We are a soft club.

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Tommy Brown
9 hours ago, feedthefox said:

 

By the time the stadium announcer read out that there were 3300 visiting fans I recon there were only about 1500 left.

Cannot see us as having that many.

We only used a bit more than half of the stand. That would mean the stand holds about 5.5k. That cannot be right?

My thoughts were the stand holds 3,300.

Been on Well website but don't see a figure fir the DC stand.

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been here before
1 hour ago, i8hibsh said:

He survived Brora. We are a soft club.

 

Hissy fit boycott time again Pwincess?

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soonbe110
4 hours ago, Tommy Brown said:

Cannot see us as having that many.

We only used a bit more than half of the stand. That would mean the stand holds about 5.5k. That cannot be right?

My thoughts were the stand holds 3,300.

Been on Well website but don't see a figure fir the DC stand.

They announced circa  3,295 away fans at the game yesterday. Total attendance around 7,900. 

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Robbie has the Livi away to save his job by my reckoning. Another Aberdeen/Motherwell performance and the fans will turn. 

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Tommy Brown
2 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

They announced circa  3,295 away fans at the game yesterday. Total attendance around 7,900. 

👍

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58 minutes ago, Rods said:

Robbie has the Livi away to save his job by my reckoning. Another Aberdeen/Motherwell performance and the fans will turn. 

The fans might well turn but RN will still be here at the end of the season. No danger he’ll be sacked. 

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8 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

The fans might well turn but RN will still be here at the end of the season. No danger he’ll be sacked. 

Correct, I gave up on RN after the Brora game, however the way we started the season I thought maybe he deserves a chance. We have shown signs of improvement but we are falling back into the "away form syndrome". As I have said before we are in the main an easy touch away from home,it's up to the management team to sort it out, however I have my doubts with the current set up. Only time will tell.

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Clerry Jambo
20 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

The fans might well turn but RN will still be here at the end of the season. No danger he’ll be sacked. 

I agree Rummy. Neilson won’t get a gig at a bigger club at Hearts. He needs to do something with this squad, it’s the best in 

Many years but I doubt he will. Same old same old from him

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6 minutes ago, micole said:

Correct, I gave up on RN after the Brora game, however the way we started the season I thought maybe he deserves a chance. We have shown signs of improvement but we are falling back into the "away form syndrome". As I have said before we are in the main an easy touch away from home,it's up to the management team to sort it out, however I have my doubts with the current set up. Only time will tell.

 

You are right - for the vast majority of my time supporting Hearts (30+ years) we have basically been poor away from home regardless of how well we are doing in home games. If I was interviewing a new Hearts manager the first question I would ask is 'why do you think we've struggled away from home for so many years and what would you do differently to change it?'. History has shown that approaching away games the same way as we treat home games just doesn't work.

 

And what really winds me up is when managers come out after away games and talk about a 'bad day at the office' etc. as if the latest defeat is just a blip. Away defeats are unfortunately what I've come to expect after many years following Hearts.

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A few people had been saying they were wrong to write Robbie off after the start we've had to the season but yesterday and other games, such as Aberdeen away, prove they weren't wrong.

 

For me, Savage is the one to take the credit for assembling a good team and Robbie is undoing all that good work.

 

If he can't see after 14 games that Smith doesn't work as a wing back, or doesn't change things when it's obvious it's needed, then that tells you everything about him.

 

Savage seems a pretty ambitious guy. I wonder if he'll be going to budge to say we need a more tactically astute manager to deliver my vision of success? I hope so as we will never fulfil our potential under Robbie. 

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Rick Sanchez

To be fair, Neilson and Savage both knew the system we were playing. So the whole RWB situation is on both of them.

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gowestjambo

The fact that we have ben over run in Midfield at Ross Co, Rangers, Aberdeen and Motherwell is not a coincidence. Neilson is a one trick pony unable to change tactics to suit the occassion.

 

Everone could see yesterday what was happening apart from our Manager. The 3,300 Fans that turned up yesterday deserve more than watching us struggle to get over half way against Motherwell.

 

 

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MR INCREDIBLE

We seem to be close to reaching a better level as seen by the performance against United but we will never reach that level with Neilson in charge as he simply can’t motivate the players to roll up their sleeves away from home.

  That’s the difference with the mindset of the old firm that they treat all matches the same in that they expect to win home or away and don’t change the way they approach each game.

  I think the squad with a couple of new additions is strong enough but the best signing would be a new manager who would command the respect of the team.

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13 minutes ago, gowestjambo said:

The fact that we have ben over run in Midfield at Ross Co, Rangers, Aberdeen and Motherwell is not a coincidence. Neilson is a one trick pony unable to change tactics to suit the occassion.

 

Everone could see yesterday what was happening apart from our Manager. The 3,300 Fans that turned up yesterday deserve more than watching us struggle to get over half way against Motherwell.

 

 

We've been pish away from home since Haring was axed from the line up. He played in the wins at Tannadice and Paisley could be a mere coincidence of course. I would still argue if had come on at half time at Pittodrie to nullify Scott Brown we would have taken a point , at least.

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25 minutes ago, Rick Sanchez said:

To be fair, Neilson and Savage both knew the system we were playing. So the whole RWB situation is on both of them.

There must be someone else we can play at RWB instead of Smith. Moore played well there v Dundee United. Others have said to try with a more attack minded player in that role. Why bring Smith back in to play there? It doesn't make sense. 

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bobskeldon

That is now 3 away games on the bounce where RN got it wrong in the middle and didn’t change it when it became abundantly clear we were struggling. Ibrox after 20 mins (Haring for Woodburn), Aberdeen after 20 mins (Haring for Woodburn) and yesterday after 20 mins (Haring for Ginnelly, Woodburn, Smith)

 

There is a pattern emerging here!

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8 minutes ago, bobskeldon said:

That is now 3 away games on the bounce where RN got it wrong in the middle and didn’t change it when it became abundantly clear we were struggling. Ibrox after 20 mins (Haring for Woodburn), Aberdeen after 20 mins (Haring for Woodburn) and yesterday after 20 mins (Haring for Ginnelly, Woodburn, Smith)

 

There is a pattern emerging here!

 

It was the same the last time he was in charge, he didn't have a clue how to change things tactically during a game to try and get a foot hold. He'll always be like that because he isn't good enough. 

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Section Q
On 20/11/2021 at 17:10, Scott Leitch said:

It was obvious to everyone we were getting out numbered and overran in midfield. He watched this and done nothing about it. 

 

For me this is why Neilson will never be the right man. 

 

Horseshit 

We're third in the league and want rid of the coach. Weren't we second in the league the last time we emptied him. The guy deserves a full season in the top league. Not many coaches of the past 50 years have matched his record.....!

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Scott Leitch
3 minutes ago, Section Q said:

We're third in the league and want rid of the coach. Weren't we second in the league the last time we emptied him. The guy deserves a full season in the top league. Not many coaches of the past 50 years have matched his record.....!

Emptied him? Must have missed him getting the sack. 

 

This is the issue though. Look at the table and think all is well. 

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1 hour ago, Paulp74 said:

A few people had been saying they were wrong to write Robbie off after the start we've had to the season but yesterday and other games, such as Aberdeen away, prove they weren't wrong.

 

For me, Savage is the one to take the credit for assembling a good team and Robbie is undoing all that good work.

 

If he can't see after 14 games that Smith doesn't work as a wing back, or doesn't change things when it's obvious it's needed, then that tells you everything about him.

 

Savage seems a pretty ambitious guy. I wonder if he'll be going to budge to say we need a more tactically astute manager to deliver my vision of success? I hope so as we will never fulfil our potential under Robbie. 

 

Great post, Paul.

 

The last paragraph in particular.

 

Savage is our best hope of convincing Budge that any ambition we appear to have will always be limited by the modest abilities of the head coach. 

 

Everything else at the club has pretty much been put right over the last year but not the vital head coach position.

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1 hour ago, MR INCREDIBLE said:

We seem to be close to reaching a better level as seen by the performance against United but we will never reach that level with Neilson in charge as he simply can’t motivate the players to roll up their sleeves away from home.

  That’s the difference with the mindset of the old firm that they treat all matches the same in that they expect to win home or away and don’t change the way they approach each game.

  I think the squad with a couple of new additions is strong enough but the best signing would be a new manager who would command the respect of the team.

 

👏

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18 minutes ago, Section Q said:

We're third in the league and want rid of the coach. Weren't we second in the league the last time we emptied him. The guy deserves a full season in the top league. Not many coaches of the past 50 years have matched his record.....!

Wasting time and money 💰 Time to say goodbye 👋 

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bobskeldon
32 minutes ago, DG_HMFC said:

 

It was the same the last time he was in charge, he didn't have a clue how to change things tactically during a game to try and get a foot hold. He'll always be like that because he isn't good enough. 

Unfortunately, due to his past here I think he is now reluctant to make changes which might be perceived as ‘defensive’ e.g. taking off a forward player for a holding midfielder. I don’t think that’s necessarily defensive as it allows forward players to play. 

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King prawn
13 hours ago, The White Cockade said:

Did we have a plan A?

No - we turned up expecting to win without putting in the legwork. We were second to every ball yesterday.

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17 minutes ago, Gambo said:

Working on a Plan A for away games would be a good start.

Win the midfield, win the game. Applies to home games too. 

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Fort Vallance
15 hours ago, Vlad Magic said:


Help me out please?

 

Im undecided on Neilson. So I’m neither an apologist or a hater.

 

We have lost twice in the league so far. You have hinted to watching regularly. 
 

Why should he get to ****?

To answer your question. In my opinion, and it's only that, we're never going to make progress with him in charge. He seems either tactically naive or extremely  stubborn. Potentially both. He's been given a lot of leeway by a very patient board. He should have been sacked after Brora. If you're happy to watch us challenge for 3rd or 4th he's probably the right man. I'd like to see us be a bit more ambitious. 

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15 hours ago, Gambo said:

Most folk would say eith our squad/resources/fans we should be beating Motherwell (or at least competing with) away from home 

 

The weak acceptance of these results by the noisy minority is what will hold us back.

 

Thankfully, from what I hear/am told, Savage and the Players are not happy.

 

 


The fans didn't accept the performance - making it vocally known at half-time and full-time.

Motherwell away is absolutely a yard-stick for us - and one we annoying fail too often. If a team of Hearts quality can't deal with a high-press from a bunch of committed cloggers, that's a big problem for our ambitions. 

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132goals1958
1 hour ago, Gizmo said:


The fans didn't accept the performance - making it vocally known at half-time and full-time.

Motherwell away is absolutely a yard-stick for us - and one we annoying fail too often. If a team of Hearts quality can't deal with a high-press from a bunch of committed cloggers, that's a big problem for our ambitions. 

 

Maybe I am nit picking but Robbie's post match remarks after a defeat invariably irk me. Yesterday he commented that away games are much more difficult which of course statistically stack up. Well if I had been in the travelling support yesterday I would have considered that a tad patronising. There should be no evidence of a negative mind set going to Fir Park and basically we just have to adapt if necessary to a change in environment.

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5 hours ago, GinRummy said:

The fans might well turn but RN will still be here at the end of the season. No danger he’ll be sacked. 

 

The problem with Robbie is that Brora, the Hibs cup game, Birkirkara aren't going to be forgotten so when we have bad results it will inflame the support more than another manager might. 

 

He's never getting sacked. Not unless Savage believes he can't take the club any further, and as we're at the start of that journey that day is still a couple of years away at least.

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Be interesting to actually know our record at Motherwell. Folk seem to be saying always been poor away from home to excuse Robbie’s ineptitude. In general I agree when it comes to Rangers and Celtic but outwith the OF it would be interesting to see the stats.  

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51 minutes ago, 132goals1958 said:

 

Maybe I am nit picking but Robbie's post match remarks after a defeat invariably irk me. Yesterday he commented that away games are much more difficult which of course statistically stack up. Well if I had been in the travelling support yesterday I would have considered that a tad patronising. There should be no evidence of a negative mind set going to Fir Park and basically we just have to adapt if necessary to a change in environment.

Robbie's comments are generally enough to irk me after every defeat. He patronises regularly as evidenced in his go support Man Utd or Man City comment after the shame of Brora. Some really basic media training rids him of the patronising style....unless that's his intention....

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7 hours ago, Rods said:

Robbie has the Livi away to save his job by my reckoning. Another Aberdeen/Motherwell performance and the fans will turn. 

:rofl:

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Hopefully January will see a dominant experienced centre back being brought in and striker that with some physicality that can occupy defences. I think we've got enough in midfield as long as we utilise them properly.

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As Ive stated numerous times...RNs gameplans away from home are awful....he lacks confidence to play an open game - its as if he doesnt rate his own players as being capable...far too negative - we have a good bunch Robbie....give them a chance !!! Stop being negative

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On 20/11/2021 at 17:29, Bongo 1874 said:

Will be interesting to see how he does in the Scottish Cup this year, giving him the chance to do well in that before commenting any further. 

his last scottish cup venture gave us the worst result in our near 150 year history. 

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2 hours ago, Rods said:

Be interesting to actually know our record at Motherwell. Folk seem to be saying always been poor away from home to excuse Robbie’s ineptitude. In general I agree when it comes to Rangers and Celtic but outwith the OF it would be interesting to see the stats.  

This isn't exact but broadly our record against most teams , bar the OF and Aberdeen,  is positive,  even away from home. 

We're doing our best to reverse that though. 

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The Mercer Takeover
5 hours ago, Section Q said:

We're third in the league and want rid of the coach. Weren't we second in the league the last time we emptied him. The guy deserves a full season in the top league. Not many coaches of the past 50 years have matched his record.....!

Absolutely not.

 

In football you are only as good as your last half dozen games. We must never make the Levein mistake again. Just give him another window, then another.....

 

When something isn't working, you must fix it, before the rot sets in.

 

Unfortunately for Neilson, he has a track record here and supporters have long memories. There are big games coming up and we must start winning again regularly.

 

Lose at Livingston and he must be sacked on the spot. Capitulate at Celtic park with another insipid performance and he must be sacked on the spot.

 

This is the best squad since Romanov, so it must not be wasted on a manger without the bottle to win away games.

 

It's our club now, so it's time to get it running how we want it. We are also awash with cash, so there can be no excuses. We need a manger able to take us forward, not accept mid table mediocrity.

 

 

 

 

 

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Dougie Masterton
7 hours ago, gowestjambo said:

The fact that we have ben over run in Midfield at Ross Co, Rangers, Aberdeen and Motherwell is not a coincidence. Neilson is a one trick pony unable to change tactics to suit the occassion.

 

Everone could see yesterday what was happening apart from our Manager. The 3,300 Fans that turned up yesterday deserve more than watching us struggle to get over half way against Motherwell.

 

 

Bang on mate. We spoke about it at HT. 

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RN comments after the game, if he really believes them are very worrying. His view on how things were going very different to the fans. Maybe that is why he didn’t make any changes at HT when it was obviously required.

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Bull's-eye
5 minutes ago, McCrae said:

RN comments after the game, if he really believes them are very worrying. His view on how things were going very different to the fans. Maybe that is why he didn’t make any changes at HT when it was obviously required.

 

Everybody sees the game differently and after working with players, week in, week out you look at different aspects of the game.

If you've got a excellent bench to call on when things don't pan out it's a much easier job and decisions will look much more straight forward and obvious to the paying public. We haven't.

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bringonthesevco
21 hours ago, Ari Gold said:

We were brilliant in our last game and have been generally decent so far this season. 

Have we been generally decent ?

 

We’ve won 6 out of 14 Matches including 1 out the last 6 ….


Had to play Celtic in the League Cup because we couldn’t score enough in a pi$$ easy cup group to get seeded. 

 

Failed to learn a single thing from a shambolic performance at Aberdeen.

 

Haven't grasped when simple changes of tactics are required …..

 

 

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HillmanHearts

Motherwell, Aberdeen and even fecken Dundee have bullied us.

If we can see it, how does Robbie not see it ?

Learn, adapt and move forward ffs.

Is anyone looking forward to Livingston away ?

 

 

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Anyone who was at Motherwell on Saturday like myself will of been sickened by a Hearts team that looked like they just met for the first time and hadn’t been coached, trained or even spoken to about what is expected from them when they play for Hearts. Watching the fans leaving the stand with the look of being let down again is not what the 3,200 Hearts fans deserve. The fans were brilliant with their backing to begin with and then we get let down badly in fact it was worse than Aberdeen away which was really bad. The blame must lie at Neilson’s door because his job is to get Hearts playing good football which I believe he is incapable of doing. Neilson is not up to the job of managing Hearts and watching him on the sidelines on Saturday proved how inept and clueless he is. Believe me I’m never wrong about these things.

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gregzy2k7
On 21/11/2021 at 06:49, Hmfc1965 said:

Are Huns known for poor away performances?

Aye, they had a shocker at Hampden today against the wee team.

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2 minutes ago, gregzy2k7 said:

Aye, they had a shocker at Hampden today against the wee team.

Not really away is it?

What's it got to do with our coaching staff?

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Anyone who was at Motherwell on Saturday like myself will of been sickened by a Hearts team that looked like they just met for the first time and hadn’t been coached, trained or even spoken to about what is expected from them when they play for Hearts. Watching the fans leaving the stand with the look of being let down again is not what the 3,200 Hearts fans deserve. The fans were brilliant with their backing to begin with and then we get let down badly in fact it was worse than Aberdeen away which was really bad. The blame must lie at Neilson’s door because his job is to get Hearts playing good football which I believe he is incapable of doing. Neilson is not up to the job of managing Hearts and watching him on the sidelines on Saturday proved how inept and clueless he is. Believe me I’m never wrong about these things.

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19 hours ago, Jamdub said:

Alex Neill will be in charge come January, IMO.

I hope so.

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InternationalJambo
2 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

Anyone who was at Motherwell on Saturday like myself will of been sickened by a Hearts team that looked like they just met for the first time and hadn’t been coached, trained or even spoken to about what is expected from them when they play for Hearts. Watching the fans leaving the stand with the look of being let down again is not what the 3,200 Hearts fans deserve. The fans were brilliant with their backing to begin with and then we get let down badly in fact it was worse than Aberdeen away which was really bad. The blame must lie at Neilson’s door because his job is to get Hearts playing good football which I believe he is incapable of doing. Neilson is not up to the job of managing Hearts and watching him on the sidelines on Saturday proved how inept and clueless he is. Believe me I’m never wrong about these things.

Jesus Christ. A loss and the moon howlers are out. We just sitting third in the league for a laugh aye? Other teams not started this season yet? What a load of absolute nonsense.

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