TYNECASTLE STADIUM UPGRADE POTENTIAL - UEFA category 4 granted ( updated/merged )

[Fxxx the SPFL]

10 minutes ago, johnking123 said:

Edinburgh is growing. Plus taking advantage of the massive tourist trade would be wise. Have family coming over from Canada next year and love to see a game. Had seen a Montreal impact game with them few years ago and would love to show them a game at Tynecastle. But its never going to happen because stadium isn't big enough.   

You could hopefully get them into hospitality 

[johnking123]

5 minutes ago, **** the SPFL said:

You could hopefully get them into hospitality 

That is the plan

[Fxxx the SPFL]

Just now, johnking123 said:

That is the plan

Or book them into the Hearts Hotel probably guarantee tickets possibly 

[OTT]

35 minutes ago, Sooks said:

 

Yip . Was not that long ago people thought we would never get over ten thousand season tickets . Hearts cringe , it is a thing 

 

I think its a Scottish thing - eternal pessimism   

[Sooks]

Just now, OTT said:

 

I think its a Scottish thing - eternal pessimism   

It totally is . Scottish cringe they call it . Seems we have our own localised version at Hearts too 

[tazhearts]

I'd like to think that once the hotel is up and running we would use to it house new signings, agents, family of new signings etc. when they initially arrive at the club.

 

I'd imagine at the moment Hearts have to pay for new signings Kent etc. to be put up in hotels initially until they sort a house out.

[sac]

Going for some scran at the Skyline tonight, and hoping to book a room for me and the mrs afterwards😉 not too worried about the room being finished, it’s all about the experience 🤭

[Samsza]

Does anyone have an idea of the feasibility of increasing the size of the pitch as part of any Wheatfield stand expansion proposals?

 

Whilst the tight Tynecastle pitch undoubtedly has benefits, in my view, a larger pitch would help us to play a modern style of football.

[davemclaren]

2 minutes ago, Samsza said:

Does anyone have an idea of the feasibility of increasing the size of the pitch as part of any Wheatfield stand expansion proposals?

 

Whilst the tight Tynecastle pitch undoubtedly has benefits, in my view, a larger pitch would help us to play a modern style of football.

Width or length?

[Bungalow Bill]

3 minutes ago, Samsza said:

Does anyone have an idea of the feasibility of increasing the size of the pitch as part of any Wheatfield stand expansion proposals?

 

Whilst the tight Tynecastle pitch undoubtedly has benefits, in my view, a larger pitch would help us to play a modern style of football.

Fairly sure because of the length, it can’t be made wider. Last time it was made wider we had to remove the front rows from behind the goals. 

Edited July 29, 2023 by Bungalow Bill

[Sooks]

The length of the pitch is fine and with in the regulations . It is the width that is a little under . We will always get dispensation though imo 

[allystrachan]

 Even a while since we have went round in circles about standing sections. I noticed on social media there’s a lot of the English teams doing that this close season. I know we had a trial rail seat in a few years back but nothing ever happens with it. Hopefully the ultras section is successful & can be expanded & rail seats added somewhere. 

[heatonjambo]

16 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Width or length?

Ask wonfiveone, as he appears to the font on such dimensions 

😀

[davemclaren]

4 minutes ago, heatonjambo said:

Ask wonfiveone, as he appears to the font on such dimensions 

😀

😄

[Wonfiveone]

17 minutes ago, heatonjambo said:

Ask wonfiveone, as he appears to the font on such dimensions 

😀

Been speaking to the wife again?

😘

[XB52]

44 minutes ago, allystrachan said:

 Even a while since we have went round in circles about standing sections. I noticed on social media there’s a lot of the English teams doing that this close season. I know we had a trial rail seat in a few years back but nothing ever happens with it. Hopefully the ultras section is successful & can be expanded & rail seats added somewhere. 

Most EPL clubs have safe standing now, rule is they have to have some for away fans as well as home. It's 1 for 1 though so no increase in capacity

[Montgomery Brewster]

7 hours ago, Led Tasso said:

 

As much as I'm a cheerleader for getting a new Wheatfield done and getting us to 30k, I think that's well and truly it at Tynecastle.

 

If we want bigger than that, I know it's taboo to say, but renting Murrayfield makes a lot more sense than another expansion to 40k. If we're really drawing 40k for matches, we'll start to decently fill it.

 

I think a 30k stadium some time in the 2030s would carry us through to the 2050s at least.

In time we will end up doing a land swap with Edinburgh council for saughton or sighthill park. As part of a regeneration type deal. Until then we will always be hemmed in by the planners at Tynecastle unless we can pull a rabbit out the hat somehow and get the distillery to move. 
 

 

 

[Thomaso]

1 hour ago, Bungalow Bill said:

Fairly sure because of the length, it can’t be made wider. Last time it was made wider we had to remove the front rows from behind the goals. 

Did we not remove the rows behind the goals to make the pitch longer not wider?

[davemclaren]

4 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

Did we not remove the rows behind the goals to make the pitch longer not wider?

I think we made it longer and narrower iirc. 

[Boris5115]

1 hour ago, Bungalow Bill said:

Fairly sure because of the length, it can’t be made wider. Last time it was made wider we had to remove the front rows from behind the goals. 

Pitch dimensions before seats removed from behind each goal was 98 x 68 sq metres equals 6664 sm. 

After removal 100 x 64 equals 6400 sm. This has actually made the playing surface smaller but it needed to be 100 metres long minimum to play European ties. I'm no engineer but any chance of a new Wheatfield being built should incorporate a wider surface if possible. 

 

[Boris5115]

6 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

I think we made it longer and narrower iirc. 

Correct 

[Ricardo Quaresma]

3 hours ago, Drylaw Hearts said:

40,000……

 

🤣

 

The league would be a matter of time...

[Thomaso]

2 hours ago, Boris5115 said:

Pitch dimensions before seats removed from behind each goal was 98 x 68 sq metres equals 6664 sm. 

After removal 100 x 64 equals 6400 sm. This has actually made the playing surface smaller but it needed to be 100 metres long minimum to play European ties. I'm no engineer but any chance of a new Wheatfield being built should incorporate a wider surface if possible. 

 

To do so the Wheatfield steel lattice corner towers connecting to the Gorgie and Roseburn stands would need to move back. This would have implications for the Gorgie and Roseburn stands as they would be made wider.

[Ricardo Quaresma]

5 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

To do so the Wheatfield steel lattice corner towers connecting to the Gorgie and Roseburn stands would need to move back. This would have implications for the Gorgie and Roseburn stands as they would be made wider.

 

That sounds like a 'mare

 

Pragmatic solution in that scenario may well be to add a new pair of towers behind the existing ones

 

Surely a no

[chrisyboy7]

3 hours ago, Ricardo Quaresma said:

 

That sounds like a 'mare

 

Pragmatic solution in that scenario may well be to add a new pair of towers behind the existing ones

 

Surely a no

It's actually the best way to go...make them longer and fill.in the 2 corners joining to the Wheatfield...if you can do a Wheatfield at 10k plus the corners and the extended roseburn & Gorgie. Around 3k there giving a capacity of 27k.

You could also add rows to the roseburn too.

I would say thats our limit unless the other 2 cornets are filled....all this would take us to roughly 30k but would mean a season at muddyfield and around 40-60 million. 

I love to dream but the only way this is possible is for it to be donated. I pray we get lucky

[johnking123]

4 hours ago, Ricardo Quaresma said:

 

That sounds like a 'mare

 

Pragmatic solution in that scenario may well be to add a new pair of towers behind the existing ones

 

Surely a no

I thought that. Far stronger tower supports and far bigger truss to hold the roseburn and gorgie  trusses up. Be talking well 150 ton or more truss for the job. 

[johnking123]

[Gizmo]

5 hours ago, Thomaso said:

To do so the Wheatfield steel lattice corner towers connecting to the Gorgie and Roseburn stands would need to move back. This would have implications for the Gorgie and Roseburn stands as they would be made wider.

That would be the best plan if all the hurdles were cleared.

Buy the community pitch, new Wheatfield sits further back, Gorgie & Roseburn extend to meet the new truss towers.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

8 hours ago, Montgomery Brewster said:

In time we will end up doing a land swap with Edinburgh council for saughton or sighthill park. As part of a regeneration type deal. Until then we will always be hemmed in by the planners at Tynecastle unless we can pull a rabbit out the hat somehow and get the distillery to move.

 

 

I don't understand why Saughton or Sighthill are preferable to a Murrayfield joint tenancy in the long run. (And I do mean the long run.) I understand why Murrayfield now or in 2002 would be objectionable, when we were getting 13k to games and the stadium would be 1/5 full. I also fully understand not wanting to leave Tynecastle at all.

 

But like 25-30 years from now, after we expand Tynecastle to 30k and then outgrow it with a 10k waiting list, and we remain landlocked at Tynecastle with no room to reasonably expand. SRU may be at the point that they're ready to rebuild the current stadium anyway. If the choice is between, on the one hand, moving and building our own patch somewhere other than Tynecastle anyway, or on the other hand, working together with SRU to share a 60k stadium that we could regularly get 40k in and could totally sell out for big games, why is Sighthill or Saughton preferable to just over the bypass where we get more capacity for much less money?

[davemclaren]

1 hour ago, johnking123 said:

Not sure what that delivers? How is the Roseburn Stand roof supported!

[johnking123]

19 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Not sure what that delivers? How is the Roseburn Stand roof supported!

The new truss is going to hold up the Roseburn and Gorgie trusses.

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, johnking123 said:

The new truss is going to hold up the Roseburn and Gorgie trusses.

Isn't it a lot higher though, assuming the Wheatfield is doubled in height? I need a set of drawings. 😄

[johnking123]

10 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Isn't it a lot higher though, assuming the Wheatfield is doubled in height? I need a set of drawings. 😄

We would never get a stand double the height. Maybe 20 to 30 feet higher.

[OTT]

1 hour ago, Led Tasso said:

 

I don't understand why Saughton or Sighthill are preferable to a Murrayfield joint tenancy in the long run. (And I do mean the long run.) I understand why Murrayfield now or in 2002 would be objectionable, when we were getting 13k to games and the stadium would be 1/5 full. I also fully understand not wanting to leave Tynecastle at all.

 

But like 25-30 years from now, after we expand Tynecastle to 30k and then outgrow it with a 10k waiting list, and we remain landlocked at Tynecastle with no room to reasonably expand. SRU may be at the point that they're ready to rebuild the current stadium anyway. If the choice is between, on the one hand, moving and building our own patch somewhere other than Tynecastle anyway, or on the other hand, working together with SRU to share a 60k stadium that we could regularly get 40k in and could totally sell out for big games, why is Sighthill or Saughton preferable to just over the bypass where we get more capacity for much less money?

 

Think the idea of moving into Murrayfield is equated with losing our home & identity. As you'll know that was the Piemans plan back in the early 00s and I can still remember the absolute rage in the stands, I don't think it will be something that will ever be well received. Beyond that, I don't think Murrayfield would ever feel like our home, as daft as it sounds the seats would be blue not maroon and all the decor would be SRU related. Beyond all that, Murrayfield is the biggest stadium in the country at 69k, earlier in the thread folk were twitchy over the idea of a few thousand unsold, 20-30k+ unsold wouldn't be something that many would like to entertain. Lastly, it wouldn't be ours, we'd be tenants so not able to take advantage of the 24/7 stadium which Budge seems to be moving us closer to (Hotel, Bar etc).  

 

For me, the immediate goal needs to be getting a meaningfully expanded Wheatfield. I don't care what the council MIGHT reject, go for 15k and fight them tooth and nail on every seat. Unlike with the main stand, I don't think we're under any external pressure to get it done, its simply the longer we leave it the more frustrated fans become. There isn't a nursery on that side which could landlock us, so we have the time to either work with or fight the council to get us something that makes a meaningful impact on our capacity. That will cater demand for the foreseeable, and should the need arise, further discussions can be had around the Gorgie stand and perhaps an expansion to the Main stand. 

 

I do see your point around Saughton and Sighthill, Councils don't have the money to support us with land acquisition or the HUGE construction costs, if Aberdeen are looking at north of £50m, then a new stadium in Edinburgh would cost much more. So much more, that I'd question if it would be cheaper to acquire the land around the stadium instead (e.g. the tenements on Gorgie road). All options seem too expensive, but that seems cheaper than the alternative and the stadium can be upgraded on a needs must basis, rather than all at once (which reduces immediate costs, and mitigates risk). Think also, further expansion beyond the Wheatfield is probably not a short or even medium term priority. IF we can get the capacity up to 28k, then the 22k interested in a season ticket get their season tickets, and we still have 3k for walk ups in the home end with away capacity returning to normal and part of the roseburn being for overflow. 

[Ray Gin]

1 hour ago, Led Tasso said:

 

I don't understand why Saughton or Sighthill are preferable to a Murrayfield joint tenancy in the long run. (And I do mean the long run.) I understand why Murrayfield now or in 2002 would be objectionable, when we were getting 13k to games and the stadium would be 1/5 full. I also fully understand not wanting to leave Tynecastle at all.

 

But like 25-30 years from now, after we expand Tynecastle to 30k and then outgrow it with a 10k waiting list, and we remain landlocked at Tynecastle with no room to reasonably expand. SRU may be at the point that they're ready to rebuild the current stadium anyway. If the choice is between, on the one hand, moving and building our own patch somewhere other than Tynecastle anyway, or on the other hand, working together with SRU to share a 60k stadium that we could regularly get 40k in and could totally sell out for big games, why is Sighthill or Saughton preferable to just over the bypass where we get more capacity for much less money?

 

Murrayfield just isn't great for watching football due to the massive space behind the goals and the running track down one side.

 

A 30,000 capacity stadium at Sighthill Park (I can't see us ever achieving this at Tynecastle), designed so that it would be relatively simple to add an extra 10k+ if we ever needed it, would be the dream scenario. If only we were loaded enough to do it. 

 

 

Edited July 29, 2023 by Ray Gin

[johnking123]

[davemclaren]

8 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Murrayfield just isn't great for watching football due to the massive space behind the goals and the running track down one side.

 

A 30,000 capacity stadium at Sighthill Park (I can't see us ever achieving this at Tynecastle), designed so that it would be relatively simple to add an extra 10k+ if we ever needed it, would be the dream scenario. If only we were loaded enough to do it. 

 

 

I keep playing that Euro lottery. 🤞

[davemclaren]

Just now, johnking123 said:

👍

[bobby bombscare]

I wonder if the best option is to do a rebuild of Gorgie, Roseburn and Wheatfeild as an all in 1 wraparound? Could 2 tier the lot and have the space at the corners. Surely could add another 10k doing that? And it wouldn't then tower above the main stand, it would still be bigger though.

Edited July 29, 2023 by bobby bombscare

[OTT]

2 minutes ago, johnking123 said:

 

I wonder what (excuse the weird layout but easier to show rather than describe): 

 

HEART OF

MIDLOTHIAN

 

would look like laid out as a seat pattern (rather than the hearts badge. If nothing else the Midlothian part would ensure a big enough stand 😛 

 

Cool design too. 

[johnking123]

Found this one 😄

[Bungalow Bill]

Just now, johnking123 said:

Found this one 😄

I don’t think we’d be allowed to build higher than the tenements. 

[johnking123]

Just now, Bungalow Bill said:

I don’t think we’d be allowed to build higher than the tenements. 

It's only slightly higher 🙂

[bobby bombscare]

15 minutes ago, johnking123 said:

It's only slightly higher 🙂

Do you by chance know how many seats each stand holds currently? 

[johnking123]

3 minutes ago, bobby bombscare said:

Do you by chance know how many seats each stand holds currently? 

Gorgie 3300 wheatfield 5900 roseburn 3400 main 7200 roughly 

[Montgomery Brewster]

28 minutes ago, Bungalow Bill said:

I don’t think we’d be allowed to build higher than the tenements. 

If we decide to rebuild the wheatfield when the time comes - we should do what a lot of developers do and use the Haymarket office development as an example. That towers over everything around it. 
 

we definitely need to start using bigger brown envelopes !

[sac]

7 minutes ago, Montgomery Brewster said:

If we decide to rebuild the wheatfield when the time comes - we should do what a lot of developers do and use the Haymarket office development as an example. That towers over everything around it. 
 

we definitely need to start using bigger brown envelopes !

Haymarket development was meant to be taller iirc, but objections pegged it back to what you see now.

[johnking123]

If we did rotate the pitch and knock down the other three stands. We could get 30k, wheatfield would hold only 2k ish. But could most likely get two 12k stands Gorgie and roseburn sides.

[Nobreath]

6 minutes ago, sac said:

Haymarket development was meant to be taller iirc, but objections pegged it back to what you see now.

 

So the trick is to say we want to build a triple tier stand, and compromise on a double tier stand. 

[Ricardo Quaresma]

1 hour ago, johnking123 said:

 

I had that bookmarked somewhere, but I had to restore system from a backup, so it's away