TYNECASTLE STADIUM UPGRADE POTENTIAL - UEFA category 4 granted ( updated/merged )

[Sooks]

11 minutes ago, highlandjambo3 said:

FYI below…..it’s extremely likely that lots of b & b/guest houses will be *closing at the end of September, this will likely have a knock on effect for accommodation (supply/demand) and hotels may take the opportunity to increase their prices.

 

If you run a b & b and you don’t have any of the below requirements, it’s record to cost you about £5-8k 😳

 

*This was on the news the other day, they recon about 2/3 will shut down.  Mostly the ones being run by elderly people looking for a wee bit dosh as a sideline…………….I’m sorted though 👍….. licence cost £390…..robbing barstewards 🤬

 

FYI, as of October 1st this year, all b & b/guesthouses in Scotland have to have a licence to operate provided by the council.  The license requirements request the following procedures are in place and, it’s not some of the items listed below, it’s ALL of them:

1 “Gas safe” boiler/heater installed and, annually serviced
2 Emergency lighting installed (regularly tested & recorded)
3 Linked smoke & heat detectors (regular tested & recorded)
4 Appropriate fire extinguishers
5 Legionella free inspection report 
6 Electrical safety inspection (every 5 years)
7 Site/floor plan
8 Portable Appliance Testing (PAT) annually on all electrical equipment

This will surely mean higher demand for rooms and a greater occupancy percentage you would think . Seems like the sort of things we would easily manage to tick off . Really hop a combination of this and the student accommodation can regenerate the shops on Gorgie Road as well . Would be great for the area

[kingantti1874]

9 hours ago, Hungry hippo said:

 

The difference from other companies is that our benefactors are effectively paying for the initial outlay so we actually get the benefits of any profits as soon as they are generated.

 

I say 'effectively' because they contribute to the overall pot rather than specific projects but that is the type of infrastructure that James Anderson has said he wants to invest in.

Agree.  Lots of clubs around Europe do this also.  I’m sure when we played Bordeaux they owned a taxi company

[King Of The Cat Cafe]

18 hours ago, Sooks said:

 

In all honesty I think maybe Kickback should have a sub forum where only FOH contributors or season ticket holders can join and that way you can easily distinguish between the arseholes and the Hibs arseholes 

Sounds rather Hibbish, as in https://www.hibs.net/forumdisplay.php?39-hibs-net-Private-Membership

[jamboinglasgow]

11 hours ago, Jambof3tornado said:

How long before we started seeing an actual profit from it? How much is it costing to begin with? Not negatives just questions.

 

I think we should be profiting from it straight away. The benefactors are effectively paying for it, if I remember, so the costs of constructing and fitting it will be in our financial reports but it will be offset by benefactors donations.

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

6 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

I think we should be profiting from it straight away. The benefactors are effectively paying for it, if I remember, so the costs of constructing and fitting it will be in our financial reports but it will be offset by benefactors donations.

Correct

[Sooks]

18 minutes ago, King Of The Cat Cafe said:

Sounds rather Hibbish, as in https://www.hibs.net/forumdisplay.php?39-hibs-net-Private-Membership

Most forums probably a sub forum where you can be sure you are actually speaking to other genuine supporters now a days tbh 

[kila]

48 minutes ago, highlandjambo3 said:

FYI below…..it’s extremely likely that lots of b & b/guest houses will be *closing at the end of September, this will likely have a knock on effect for accommodation (supply/demand) and hotels may take the opportunity to increase their prices.

 

If you run a b & b and you don’t have any of the below requirements, it’s estimate fit out to cost you about £5-8k  or closer to 10k if you need a new boiler installed.

 

*This was on the news the other day, they recon about 2/3 will shut down.  Mostly the ones being run by elderly people looking for a wee bit dosh as a sideline…………….I’m sorted though 👍….. licence cost £390…..robbing bar stewards 🤬

p.s. this requirement was supposed to come into effect 2022 but was deferred for a year to give owners a chance to get up to speed.

 

 

FYI, as of October 1st this year, all b & b/guesthouses in Scotland have to have a licence to operate provided by the council.  The license requirements request the following procedures are in place and, it’s not some of the items listed below, it’s ALL of them:

1 “Gas safe” boiler/heater installed and, annually serviced
2 Emergency lighting installed (regularly tested & recorded)
3 Linked smoke & heat detectors (regular tested & recorded)
4 Appropriate fire extinguishers
5 Legionella free inspection report 
6 Electrical safety inspection (every 5 years)
7 Site/floor plan
8 Portable Appliance Testing (PAT) annually on all electrical equipment

 

Bit of a cost for B&B's to be up to spec but sounds like reasonable requirements to be fair. Licence fee just the council robbing folk though!

 

Do we have a tourist tax yet?

[highlandjambo3]

35 minutes ago, kila said:

 

Bit of a cost for B&B's to be up to spec but sounds like reasonable requirements to be fair. Licence fee just the council robbing folk though!

 

Do we have a tourist tax yet?

Yup it’s expensive, thankfully I already had 1,2,3,4 & 8 in place.
 

I understand It’s a bit frustrating when you’ve been operating for years with no issues then suddenly overnight some suits have changed the rules and, your now non compliant and need to close down or spend a fortune to get upgraded.

 

The official party line from the council is there a big drive to ensure all members of the public are safe when they pay for “short let” accommodation, which is what we are.  There was a remarks column at the end of the registration process where you could add any additional information you think is relevant…..I mentioned that I understood their drive to ensure public health & safety but, * I then went on to question them why there was no requirement to provide any evidence regarding food safety, food Allergens, food handling, preparation, safe hot storage, etc…….

 

* I haven’t had my licence excepted yet…..maybe I should have kept my mouth shut 😆

[Famous 1874]

Should be a good earner for the club this. Once that’s nailed and returning regular profit then I wonder what the next off the field project will be. 
 

James Anderson has been quoted before by Budge & co that the club have to be ambitious. 
 

The club have also spoken about gaining additional income sources.

 

Skyline lounge is great and surely returns a decent profit. 
 

The hotel should rake it in.

 

We have conferencing space and the ability to host weddings and parties so that will be more sporadic income. 
 

The 1874 bar should make a decent amount on matchdays. Probably not as much outwith them but last I checked they were only open Thursday - Sunday anyways. 
 

Pity we couldn’t have got our hands on the old Tynecastle High School land. 

[Guest]

The club are advertising for a Restaurant Manager for the Skyline and Front of House Hotel Manager if anyone on here fancies it.

[Jambof3tornado]

2 hours ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

I think we should be profiting from it straight away. The benefactors are effectively paying for it, if I remember, so the costs of constructing and fitting it will be in our financial reports but it will be offset by benefactors donations.

Ahh so no investors getting repaid over the next 5 years etc. Thats a bit of a no brainer as a setup to be fair.

[Jambof3tornado]

13 minutes ago, Black Swan said:

The club are advertising for a Restaurant Manager for the Skyline and Front of House Hotel Manager if anyone on here fancies it.

Do you need a uefa pro A licence to apply?

 

Away to google salary etc.

[Sooks]

27 minutes ago, Famous 1874 said:

Should be a good earner for the club this. Once that’s nailed and returning regular profit then I wonder what the next off the field project will be. 
 

James Anderson has been quoted before by Budge & co that the club have to be ambitious. 
 

The club have also spoken about gaining additional income sources.

 

Skyline lounge is great and surely returns a decent profit. 
 

The hotel should rake it in.

 

We have conferencing space and the ability to host weddings and parties so that will be more sporadic income. 
 

The 1874 bar should make a decent amount on matchdays. Probably not as much outwith them but last I checked they were only open Thursday - Sunday anyways. 
 

Pity we couldn’t have got our hands on the old Tynecastle High School land. 

On your last two paragraphs , I think the two are a solution to each other . With student accommodation next door then we should be opening the bar and a coffee shop 7 days a week with conducive opening times - kerching

[OTT]

15 hours ago, Sooks said:

If we really do make one and a half million a year out of this hotel then it is half of the profit we turned from last season in the conference league …….. that is massive 

 

Combined with the £1.4m being put in via the foundation, thats pretty much Conference money minus the ticket sales. 

 

A real leveller if we don't finish 3rd, but added to the conference money for finishing 3rd that is huge. 

 

FWIW I'm not sure if the £1.5m is that accurate though. But do imagine it will still be a healthy add on.

[Sooks]

2 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

Combined with the £1.4m being put in via the foundation, thats pretty much Conference money minus the ticket sales. 

 

A real leveller if we don't finish 3rd, but added to the conference money for finishing 3rd that is huge. 

 

FWIW I'm not sure if the £1.5m is that accurate though. But do imagine it will still be a healthy add on.

it is good to be able to discuss these things with out the hysteria and hyperbole in the wake of losing away at Dens . I appreciate it 

 

After every defeat this place goes a bit wild bunch and every thing needs to be torn in to tiny pieces and ripped up to start again . Babies and bath water being flung about every where

 

It is like people want us to be in a constant state of flux , and that is definitely the case with the Hibs fans , but the Hearts support who button up the back are too easily taken in by it

 

The club making money is a good thing and it makes success more possible and likely . When the football side is not performing to its optimum it needs addressed but blaming an increase in revenue streams through off field activities is honestly stupidity of the very highest order . There are barely the words to describe how dumb people need to be to believe that

 

We need to make more of our financial advantages for sure . What we do not need to do is go back to being an impoverished debt ridden club living beyond its means

 

We can be a well run club doing well financially AND be successful . Ripping up the former will not improve the latter 

[stuart500]

35 minutes ago, Black Swan said:

The club are advertising for a Restaurant Manager for the Skyline and Front of House Hotel Manager if anyone on here fancies it.

Step forward Chef Sibbick and Maitre'D Rowles.

[Sinbad the Sailor]

A wee back hander to the concierge should secure a mythical kebab pie.

[Sooks]

1 minute ago, Sinbad the Sailor said:

A wee back hander to the concierge should secure a mythical kebab pie.

Filth

[washniklaw]

15 hours ago, Sooks said:

No idea mate . If it was say a million per annum though then it would all go to the turn over figure that we use to take a percentage off for transfers and that would still improve our position 

I was told they were aiming at £150 nightly rate. Even fully occupied it would still only bring £1.36m turnover.

 

I

[Sooks]

Just now, washniklaw said:

I was told they were aiming at £150 nightly rate. Even fully occupied it would still only bring £1.36m turnover.

 

I

Cool I have no idea of the projected figures but I know the club will be conservative on those projections . If it was say a million or even 750 thousand per annum then it is money in and it increases the total that we take a percentage from to pay playing staff

[The Treasurer]

57 minutes ago, Famous 1874 said:

Should be a good earner for the club this. Once that’s nailed and returning regular profit then I wonder what the next off the field project will be. 
 

James Anderson has been quoted before by Budge & co that the club have to be ambitious. 
 

The club have also spoken about gaining additional income sources.

 

Skyline lounge is great and surely returns a decent profit. 
 

The hotel should rake it in.

 

We have conferencing space and the ability to host weddings and parties so that will be more sporadic income. 
 

The 1874 bar should make a decent amount on matchdays. Probably not as much outwith them but last I checked they were only open Thursday - Sunday anyways. 
 

Pity we couldn’t have got our hands on the old Tynecastle High School land. 

Does the 1874 bar open on days other than match days. 

I've been to the Skyline a couple of times and planned to go to the 1874 before and after but it was closed both times 

[Pans Jambo]

22 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

Combined with the £1.4m being put in via the foundation, that's pretty much Conference money minus the ticket sales. 

 

A real leveller if we don't finish 3rd, but added to the conference money for finishing 3rd that is huge. 

 

FWIW I'm not sure if the £1.5m is that accurate though. But do imagine it will still be a healthy add on.

How many rooms is it? 15 or something?

 

At a 100% occupancy rate for 365 days a year that's 15 x 365 = 5475 nights.

 

To get to £1.5M you would need to sell every room for £274/night, every day for an entire year (appreciate that number doesn't include meals/bars/room service/guest services (laundry/dry cleaning) etc. but you can see how that £1.5M is a big ask.

[JimmyCant]

15 hours ago, Sooks said:

No idea mate . If it was say a million per annum though then it would all go to the turn over figure that we use to take a percentage off for transfers and that would still improve our position 

100% occupancy(be lucky to get 80%) at £100 per night ARR. (certainly possible if they stick by a high rate) is a turnover of £803k. Take VAT and staff and maintenance costs and agent commissions and other incidentals off that and you’ll be lucky to see £350k clear profit PA. Every little helps, especially when your utilising empty space but this isn’t a golden goose project.

[johnking123]

6 minutes ago, washniklaw said:

I was told they were aiming at £150 nightly rate. Even fully occupied it would still only bring £1.36m turnover.

 

I

Think it's the couple of extra hospitality that will bring in extra. 

[jamboinglasgow]

19 minutes ago, Jambof3tornado said:

Ahh so no investors getting repaid over the next 5 years etc. Thats a bit of a no brainer as a setup to be fair.

 

Yup. I still think people dont realise how savvy the benefactors have been and how its a massive benefit to us. They have rebuilt the income streams of the club, funding projects that we could never have easily afforded without it seriously impacting the budget for the playing side. You may not get huge money from each project but together they make a big difference. As someone else points out, will be interesting to see what they see is the next project.

[Sooks]

Just now, Pans Jambo said:

How many rooms is it? 15 or something?

 

At a 100% occupancy rate for 365 days a year that's 15 x 365 = 5475 nights.

 

To get to £1.5M you would need to sell every room for £274/night, every day for an entire year (appreciate that number doesn't include meals/bars/room service/guest services (laundry/dry cleaning) etc. but you can see how that £1.5M is a big ask.

22 rooms plus conferencing space I believe 

[davemclaren]

2 minutes ago, The Treasurer said:

Does the 1874 bar open on days other than match days. 

I've been to the Skyline a couple of times and planned to go to the 1874 before and after but it was closed both times 

Only match days or other 'events'. 

[Sooks]

1 minute ago, JimmyCant said:

100% occupancy(be lucky to get 80%) at £100 per night ARR. (certainly possible if they stick by a high rate) is a turnover of £803k. Take VAT and staff and maintenance costs and agent commissions and other incidentals off that and you’ll be lucky to see £350k clear profit PA. Every little helps, especially when your utilising empty space but this isn’t a golden goose project.

Need to wait and see what the accounts show I suppose . All helps though 

[The Treasurer]

2 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Only match days or other 'events'. 

Cheers Dave. 

 

[Pans Jambo]

2 minutes ago, Sooks said:

22 rooms plus conferencing space I believe 

Ahh, thats better.

 

22 rooms x 365 = 8030.

 

80% occupancy rate would be 6424 rooms sold per year.

 

At say £150/night/room that would rake in £963,600. Plus dinners and drinks etc. 

 

I can see where the £1.5M comes from now 👍 

[Sooks]

2 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Ahh, thats better.

 

22 rooms x 365 = 8030.

 

80% occupancy rate would be 6424 rooms sold per year.

 

At say £150/night/room that would rake in £963,600. Plus dinners and drinks etc. 

 

I can see where the £1.5M comes from now 👍 

Honestly just going by what another poster said . I have no idea how much it will make and other posters project much less

[hughesie27]

9 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

How many rooms is it? 15 or something?

 

At a 100% occupancy rate for 365 days a year that's 15 x 365 = 5475 nights.

 

To get to £1.5M you would need to sell every room for £274/night, every day for an entire year (appreciate that number doesn't include meals/bars/room service/guest services (laundry/dry cleaning) etc. but you can see how that £1.5M is a big ask.

It was 22 rooms but someone on here that claims to know says theyve been able to squeeze in a few additional rooms now. So would guess 25 at least.

[Pans Jambo]

1 minute ago, Sooks said:

Honestly just going by what another poster said . I have no idea how much it will make and other posters project much less

Well whatever it turns out to be, its a revenue stream that we don't enjoy today.

[stuart500]

I think the final plan had 25 rooms after a slight reconfigure. There were 6 or 7 hospitality/conference rooms too if I remember correctly. They obviously don't overlook the pitch so I assume there would have to be designated seating in the main stand if they are to be used for matchday hospitality. 

[Pans Jambo]

1 minute ago, hughesie27 said:

It was 22 rooms but someone on here that claims to know says theyve been able to squeeze in a few additional rooms now. So would guess 25 at least.

👍

[Sooks]

1 minute ago, Pans Jambo said:

Well whatever it turns out to be, its a revenue stream that we don't enjoy today.

Exactly 

[OTT]

10 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

How many rooms is it? 15 or something?

 

At a 100% occupancy rate for 365 days a year that's 15 x 365 = 5475 nights.

 

To get to £1.5M you would need to sell every room for £274/night, every day for an entire year (appreciate that number doesn't include meals/bars/room service/guest services (laundry/dry cleaning) etc. but you can see how that £1.5M is a big ask.

 

I thought it was 22 rooms? 

 

Assuming so, it takes the cost per night down (£187), and you're probably talking premium prices over the fringe too which could make up for lower occupancy throughout the rest of the year. I wonder if Hospitality packages could be built around the hotel, restaurant and match day too?

 

I trust the board pretty firmly with non-football related stuff because they've shown quite excellent vision in that regard - Skyline Restaurant, 1874 Bar and now the Hotel. There is a very clear vision building on how we add to our revenue. 

 

In future maybe adding a coffee shop and a gym and we'd be talking about a 24/7 all bells and whistles hospitality centre, which could all be adding to our turnover and ultimately giving us a financial advantage against Aberdeen and Hibs for 3rd.

 

I could be wrong, but didn't Killie's hotel sustain them as a decent force in the SPL prior to them losing it or something?  Likewise, didn't/doesn't Aberdeens hospitality revenue dwarf both us and Hibs? - Not making a negative point on us, just highlighting that strong hospitality offerings can be significant in the clubs revenue. 

[Eass237]

I would imagine that the suspected amount of £100 per night will be for the smallest room, possibly rising to £200 per night minimum for any 'Premium' type room or suite.

 

Different options may be available for board as well, i.e. B&B or possibly DB&B, which could eventually take the overall prices to say £150 & £250ish per night respectively.

 

Remember as well that during the Festival and the Christmas season, those prices will probably increase up to 50%, so imho, you could be looking at an average of £175 per night per room, which if you use the already estimated room numbers and nights (25 rooms, 365 nights in the year) gives a theoretical 9,125 nights a year.

 

Taking those figures, 9125 nights at an avg £175 pn gives a theoretical total of £1.59m. 

 

If you assume 80% occupancy then your looking at £1.28m - then it all comes down to costs, so could be £800k profit or higher.

[Peakybunnet]

25 Rooms going by amended plans sent to council in January this year.

 

https://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/idoxpa-web/files/1BEB9541DA338D7ADF56DE3797BB60F6/pdf/22_04770_FUL-GA_PLAN_PROPOSED-5660951.pdf

 

[Peakybunnet]

[King Of The Cat Cafe]

Maybe it is my aging eyes, but does that plan suggest some rooms do not have windows?

[OTT]

5 minutes ago, King Of The Cat Cafe said:

Maybe it is my aging eyes, but does that plan suggest some rooms do not have windows?

 

Yes, I believe the intention was to have some sort of tv that would show a view of outside? 

Edited August 30, 2023 by OTT

[Sooks]

3 minutes ago, King Of The Cat Cafe said:

Maybe it is my aging eyes, but does that plan suggest some rooms do not have windows?

Looks to me like the majority will have external facing windows but a small number will open on to a corridor 

[hughesie27]

4 minutes ago, King Of The Cat Cafe said:

Maybe it is my aging eyes, but does that plan suggest some rooms do not have windows?

It's a boutique hotel. Often furnished quite lavishly but also very common for them to not have windows.

 

I stayed in House of Gods in town which is the same. No window but a "false" window with aritifial outside light.

 

 

[King Of The Cat Cafe]

"It's a boutique hotel. Often furnished quite lavishly but also very common for them to not have windows."

 

Okay. I have stayed in one of those - an easyHotel somewhere.  😆

[Sooks]

6 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

It's a boutique hotel. Often furnished quite lavishly but also very common for them to not have windows.

 

I stayed in House of Gods in town which is the same. No window but a "false" window with aritifial outside light.

 

 

Were you with a lady of ill repute  

 

 

[hughesie27]

Just now, Sooks said:

Were you with a lady of ill repute  

 

 

Yes, my missus.

[Sooks]

1 minute ago, hughesie27 said:

Yes, my missus.

[Jarhead]

4 hours ago, highlandjambo3 said:

FYI below…..it’s extremely likely that lots of b & b/guest houses will be *closing at the end of September, this will likely have a knock on effect for accommodation (supply/demand) and hotels may take the opportunity to increase their prices.

 

If you run a b & b and you don’t have any of the below requirements, it’s estimate fit out to cost you about £5-8k  or closer to 10k if you need a new boiler installed.

 

*This was on the news the other day, they recon about 2/3 will shut down.  Mostly the ones being run by elderly people looking for a wee bit dosh as a sideline…………….I’m sorted though 👍….. licence cost £390…..robbing bar stewards 🤬

p.s. this requirement was supposed to come into effect 2022 but was deferred for a year to give owners a chance to get up to speed.

 

 

FYI, as of October 1st this year, all b & b/guesthouses in Scotland have to have a licence to operate provided by the council.  The license requirements request the following procedures are in place and, it’s not some of the items listed below, it’s ALL of them:

1 “Gas safe” boiler/heater installed and, annually serviced
2 Emergency lighting installed (regularly tested & recorded)
3 Linked smoke & heat detectors (regular tested & recorded)
4 Appropriate fire extinguishers
5 Legionella free inspection report 
6 Electrical safety inspection (every 5 years)
7 Site/floor plan
8 Portable Appliance Testing (PAT) annually on all electrical equipment

Maybe veering off topic but as a long term let owner I find this interesting. 
 

1- already a long term let requirement. Gas maintenance should be mandatory everywhere IMO. If you have gas in your house, get it done. Gas is the silent killer!

Anyone running a guest business that has gas and doesn’t get it checked should have the book thrown at them. 
2- that would be a bit of a ball breaker but I get that as guests on site would not be familiar with the property 

3- already a long term let requirement. Although not requiring a testing record, is this not already a requirement in all residences in Scotland?

4- fire extinguishers have a use by date so I can understand frustration at this one but probably sensible 

5- long term let requirement but slightly laughable as can be performed by the landlord with the only requirement to run all the taps for a few minutes 

6- long term let requirement that is completely reasonable 

7- strange one. I’m sure there must be a reason for this but I don’t see it?

8- long term let requirement that is completely reasonable 

 

 Long and short of it, if anyone is renting out a property, or part of, and doesn’t already have at least half of those items then you’ll forgive me for my lack of sympathy on their suitability to run this type of business 🤷‍♂️

[Jamborose]

the hotel will certainly add to the income and make use of the asset which currently only is used match days & sparingly otherwise outside the skyline.  It will become more attractive to smaller groups for Conferencing which is a great revenue.  

I would have liked to see the 1874 adding a branded coffee shop and being open on non match days as well, especially with the school and the students in the area its a space that is not used and would also add value to the Hotel & Conferencing.