SNP and Greens coalition.

[henryheart]

It was a disaster waiting to happen and it has. The Scottish Government take over ScotRail and we already have industrial action and plans to cut services by a third. Very green. Abellio increased services and as a daily traveller, improved the customer experience markedly, but not according to the Scottish Government. You really could not make it up.  

[JudyJudyJudy]

14 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Sorry, its a state sponsored gimmick. But I guess also in a sense, one of few SNP 'success' stories (insofar as they have actually done something practical)

 

Good of you to assume you know what I do and don't understand about the needs of mothers. 

I think the issue about it was it  wasn't " means tested " as such. Well off parents to be could easily afford the items and not to be stereotypical would have needed less input from professional services too such as midwives etc. No problems with it targeted as those most in need of it PLUS input from health visitors ., social work and midwives. 

[Jeffros Furios]

Just now, Smithee said:

I don't know that fine well at all, and that's no reason we should. 

I'll fight tooth and nail against Scotland being saddled with hundreds of billions of Westminster's debt. They're arseholes, making a royal ***** of everything, and we pick up the bill?

Bollocks.

You can fight all you want but we will take our share of debt .

 

If you're not happy chuck eggs at Sturgeons Hoose .

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, henryheart said:

It was a disaster waiting to happen and it has. The Scottish Government take over ScotRail and we already have industrial action and plans to cut services by a third. Very green. Abellio increased services and as a daily traveller, improved the customer experience markedly, but not according to the Scottish Government. You really could not make it up.  

 

These things will get sorted out, there's no good reason for many millions in profit to be subsidising Dutch rail travelers

[Unknown user]

Just now, Jeffros Furios said:

You can fight all you want but we will take our share of debt .

 

If you're not happy chuck eggs at Sturgeons Hoose .

 

You don't know that, and there'll be a significant reaction if it's attempted.

 

I don't think people have really thought about the consequences of saddling their grandchildren with hundreds of billions of debt for no good reason.

[Pans Jambo]

4 minutes ago, henryheart said:

It was a disaster waiting to happen and it has. The Scottish Government take over ScotRail and we already have industrial action and plans to cut services by a third. Very green. Abellio increased services and as a daily traveller, improved the customer experience markedly, but not according to the Scottish Government. You really could not make it up.  

So the wage thing was just since Scotgove took it over? Was all good before that was it aye?

[frankblack]

5 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

You don't know that, and there'll be a significant reaction if it's attempted.

 

I don't think people have really thought about the consequences of saddling their grandchildren with hundreds of billions of debt for no good reason.

 

By "no good reason" you mean dividing up proportionally isn't fair?

 

Its Scotland's debt too whether you like it or not.  If that debt makes independence unviable then that is an issue for the SNP to explain to their voters.

 

Believing Scotland can walk away and wash their hands of their responsibility is naive.

[theshed]

11 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

So the wage thing was just since Scotgove took it over? Was all good before that was it aye?

Yes it was… just bad timing that government take over on the 1st of April on the same day a new tax year and pay talks start 

[Unknown user]

6 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

By "no good reason" you mean dividing up proportionally isn't fair?

 

Its Scotland's debt too whether you like it or not.  If that debt makes independence unviable then that is an issue for the SNP to explain to their voters.

 

Believing Scotland can walk away and wash their hands of their responsibility is naive.

 

Give me examples of when this has happened before.

 

10 years ago the interest alone was £2k for every single household in the UK and the debt's doubled since then.

 

You want your grandkids paying that off for the rest of their lives when they don't have to? **** that.

[Unknown user]

We want our future generations giving massive amounts of money to the global financial elite forever when we have the choice not to.

 

Honestly, what are people thinking?

[Ked]

1 hour ago, Smithee said:

 

Well I'd put these things first, infrastructure, facilities, welfare, things that the have nots in particular need.

Then, everything else can work around it and we can ask how much they cost and where's the money coming from.

 

An independent Scotland would be free of Westminster's 2 trillion pound debt and the interest payments they need, so we'd have room to play with.

 

Can you name any country in Western Europe that's not at similar levels of debt?

Would an independent Scotlanf not have to borrow?

Asides we are not independent yet so what would currently take the hit to make public transport free ?

[henryheart]

23 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

These things will get sorted out, there's no good reason for many millions in profit to be subsidising Dutch rail travelers

 

I suppose it all depends on where you are coming from. If you have a long memory you will appreciate how poorly the customers were treated under the nationalised service; on my route reliability improved significantly, staff that were well known for their rudeness were out the door and communication within stations became the norm rather than the exception. I really don't care about how much profit Abellio made and what they did with the money; what I cared about was that they got me to work on time. 

 

20 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

So the wage thing was just since Scotgove took it over? Was all good before that was it aye?

 

There will have been transitional working arrangements. Pay rises are intended to kick in from April. Can you imagine the Scottish Government telling Abellio to just get on with it and negotiate a pay rise that they will cover?   

[Japan Jambo]

1 hour ago, redjambo said:

For anyone interested in how the Baby Box scheme was perceived by the recipients of the boxes and health professionals, here's an evaluation that was carried out in 2019 and 2020.

 

https://dera.ioe.ac.uk/38398/1/baby-box-evaluation.pdf

 

has a feel of marking one's own homework about it. quips aside though I remember getting one of these in Japan when my son was born. pretty sure a lot of the costs were covered by businesses promoting their own products, either way it was generally useful and most welcome.

[Unknown user]

5 minutes ago, Ked said:

Can you name any country in Western Europe that's not at similar levels of debt?

Would an independent Scotlanf not have to borrow?

Asides we are not independent yet so what would currently take the hit to make public transport free ?

What has Europe debt got to do with it? We taking that as well are we?

 

Yeah Scotland might well have to borrow, so what?

 

How about our share of trident? We're strategically vital to the Western world so instead of paying for the ****er, let the US and UK use faslane in return for free protection.

[Unknown user]

Here's the real equation.

 

The UK's debt will never be paid off, it's there so the nation is forever in debt and paying back to World Money.

 

Scotland taking some of it on does nothing for the UK. They'll still be paying through the nose forever, the only difference is that our kids will be ****ed too.

Edited May 16, 2022 by Smithee

[Unknown user]

22 minutes ago, henryheart said:

 

I suppose it all depends on where you are coming from. If you have a long memory you will appreciate how poorly the customers were treated under the nationalised service; on my route reliability improved significantly, staff that were well known for their rudeness were out the door and communication within stations became the norm rather than the exception. I really don't care about how much profit Abellio made and what they did with the money; what I cared about was that they got me to work on time. 

 

 

There will have been transitional working arrangements. Pay rises are intended to kick in from April. Can you imagine the Scottish Government telling Abellio to just get on with it and negotiate a pay rise that they will cover?   

 

I'm hoping there's a way that publicly owned railway can be run well in this country.

As I'm fond of pointing out I lived in Holland where I've seen NS do exactly that, not to mention they also have Abellio making money for them abroad. I think the key is to have it run as a publicly owned, private enterprise. I'm no expert but if Abellio can run our railways at a decent level and make money then it's surely possible.

 

We find it easy to have a pop at publicly owned things these days, they're very much out of fashion. But there are examples, considering the logistical challenges faced in Scotland, Scottish water does not bad I reckon, our citizens certainly benefit compared to England from that one.

Edited May 16, 2022 by Smithee

[Ked]

29 minutes ago, Smithee said:

What has Europe debt got to do with it? We taking that as well are we?

 

Yeah Scotland might well have to borrow, so what?

 

How about our share of trident? We're strategically vital to the Western world so instead of paying for the ****er, let the US and UK use faslane in return for free protection.

Europe and every first world country runs on debt.

Unfortunately.

Leaving the UK won't see Scotland debt free even if we don't absorb some it's debt.

It's easy to just say free this and free that.

But it's harder to make those choices if it affects other things for which a government needs to budget.

Trident is an option.

Right now Nato is expanding .

Europe and the world in general has everything to do with how Scotland budgets it's resources.

 

I only asked where you thought the money should be taken from to pay for free at source public transport?

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, Ked said:

Europe and every first world country runs on debt.

Unfortunately.

Leaving the UK won't see Scotland debt free even if we don't absorb some it's debt.

It's easy to just say free this and free that.

But it's harder to make those choices if it affects other things for which a government needs to budget.

Trident is an option.

Right now Nato is expanding .

Europe and the world in general has everything to do with how Scotland budgets it's resources.

 

I only asked where you thought the money should be taken from to pay for free at source public transport?

Have I not answered you?

 

I haven't said Scotland will be, could be or should be debt free, I've said **** taking any of Westminster's massive debt so we become indentured servants to world money.

 

If we have to borrow, fine, but let's not start with 8% of £2.24 trillion so unionists can make independence seem a bad idea.

We're not bound to Westminster's debt, **** taking it on voluntarily 

[Ked]

1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

By "no good reason" you mean dividing up proportionally isn't fair?

 

Its Scotland's debt too whether you like it or not.  If that debt makes independence unviable then that is an issue for the SNP to explain to their voters.

 

Believing Scotland can walk away and wash their hands of their responsibility is naive.

By the same token is Scotland not due retrospective share of the wealth created.

A percentage of the stock exchange?

A percentage of military hardware?

Reserves of gold?

 

[Ked]

3 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Have I not answered you?

 

I haven't said Scotland will be, could be or should be debt free, I've said **** taking any of Westminster's massive debt so we become indentured servants to world money.

 

If we have to borrow, fine, but let's not start with 8% of £2.24 trillion so unionists can make independence seem a bad idea.

We're not bound to Westminster's debt, **** taking it on voluntarily 

No you haven't.

You said that not having a share of the debt would pay for subsidising free travel.

Right now Scotlands gdp doesn't cover our costs .

Now even if those figures can be argued at best we break even.

 

So all I asked was what would have to give to pay for that as currently public transport costs run into billions.

To run that for free at point of use takes some doing.

 

[Unknown user]

3 minutes ago, Ked said:

By the same token is Scotland not due retrospective share of the wealth created.

A percentage of the stock exchange?

A percentage of military hardware?

Reserves of gold?

 

 

We'd take what's ours, and a share of what's reasonable. 

 

Why do you have such a problem with not ****ing up future generations? How much UK debt did Eire take?

[Unknown user]

Just now, Ked said:

No you haven't.

You said that not having a share of the debt would pay for subsidising free travel.

Right now Scotlands gdp doesn't cover our costs .

Now even if those figures can be argued at best we break even.

 

So all I asked was what would have to give to pay for that as currently public transport costs run into billions.

To run that for free at point of use takes some doing.

 

Our costs, as administered by Westminster. We can do everything differently, shit we can borrow if we have to.

 

I mean, you are aware that the UK runs at a massive deficit just now right? Billions per week, hindered by massive debt.

So what are you expecting from Scotland if that's acceptable to you just now?

[Ked]

Just now, Smithee said:

 

We'd take what's ours, and a share of what's reasonable. 

 

Why do you have such a problem with not ****ing up future generations? How much UK debt did Eire take?

I'm failing to see how my question of how you make something free for everyone and it not impacting a budget means I want to fek up future generations.

I don't know if Ireland took any debt on.

I haven't argued that Scotland should take on the UK debt.

I have only stated that every single nation in not just Europe but the "west" are in similar levels.

 

You gave one example .

Trident.

If you think Scotland would not have to borrow to sustain current levels into the things you would like to see money spent on then I'd like to know as would every finance minister in the free world.

 

[Ked]

5 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Our costs, as administered by Westminster. We can do everything differently, shit we can borrow if we have to.

 

I mean, you are aware that the UK runs at a massive deficit just now right? Billions per week, hindered by massive debt.

So what are you expecting from Scotland if that's acceptable to you just now?

I asked you what would have to give for your statement that public transport would be free at point of source.

 

Where have I said its acceptable to be in trillions of debt?

It is funny though that your ideas of free public transport would almost certainly lead to either cutbacks in the services youbwish to be expanded or more debt.

 

So which is it.

Cutbacks or borrow more

[Unknown user]

3 minutes ago, Ked said:

I'm failing to see how my question of how you make something free for everyone and it not impacting a budget means I want to fek up future generations.

I don't know if Ireland took any debt on.

I haven't argued that Scotland should take on the UK debt.

I have only stated that every single nation in not just Europe but the "west" are in similar levels.

 

You gave one example .

Trident.

If you think Scotland would not have to borrow to sustain current levels into the things you would like to see money spent on then I'd like to know as would every finance minister in the free world.

 

Ireland didn't take any UK debt on, because that would be ****ing mental.

 

I'll tell you how I'd pay for public transport. At last report I saw (July last year) interest alone on UK debt was 8.7bn a month, that's about 100bn a year. Our "share", 8%, is about 8bn.

 

If we say **** That to Westminster's debt, bang, free public transport.

 

We could also add a surcharge to employers for every employee to help pay for it, or even pass legislation that companies have to pay travel expenses for people over 5 miles (like Holland) and only give those who are out of work free transport

[Ked]

4 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Ireland didn't take any UK debt on, because that would be ****ing mental.

 

I'll tell you how I'd pay for public transport. At last report I saw (July last year) interest alone on UK debt was 8.7bn a month, that's about 100bn a year. Our "share", 8%, is about 8bn.

 

If we say **** That to Westminster's debt, bang, free public transport.

 

We could also add a surcharge to employers for every employee to help pay for it, or even pass legislation that companies have to pay travel expenses for people over 5 miles (like Holland) and only give those who are out of work free transport

I've already said UK debt asides Scotlands gdp doesn't cover our expenditure.

Really no idea why you keep harking on about that .

Thrashing companies with more tax to cover travel costs isn't exactly what you want to help create wealth to make that gdp start to cover our expenditure.

Subsidising public transport isn't a bad thing I just wondered how you think it should be paid for.

But free travel for everyone was what you said.

That's just not sustainable now is it.

[Unknown user]

6 minutes ago, Ked said:

I've already said UK debt asides Scotlands gdp doesn't cover our expenditure.

Really no idea why you keep harking on about that .

Thrashing companies with more tax to cover travel costs isn't exactly what you want to help create wealth to make that gdp start to cover our expenditure.

Subsidising public transport isn't a bad thing I just wondered how you think it should be paid for.

But free travel for everyone was what you said.

That's just not sustainable now is it.

Of course it's sustainable, just not in a neoliberal nightmare that rips the wealth out the place.

Edited May 16, 2022 by Smithee

[Jamstomorrow]

Why all the concern about the fate of grandchildren and debt?   

 

It was not that long ago that the WW2 Lend-Lease debt owed to the US was paid off.   Thank goodness I was not aware that I was 'saddled' with this debt and my taxes were going towards paying it off.  How could I have carried on?

 

Anyhoo, global warming, a meteor strike and/or nuclear armageddon will probably see these grandchildren off, not debt.

 

Oh and if an independent Scotland should renege/default on any debt owed to Westminster, good luck with trying to borrow from elsewhere.

[Nucky Thompson]

Maybe England can get independence from the UK and bump it's debt onto Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland 

[The Dragon Reborn]

16 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Maybe England can get independence from the UK and bump it's debt onto Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland 

[Ked]

8 hours ago, Smithee said:

Of course it's sustainable, just not in a neoliberal nightmare that rips the wealth out the place.

Yes but in the real world ?

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Maybe England can get independence from the UK and bump it's debt onto Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland 

Why not?

[Unknown user]

2 hours ago, Jamstomorrow said:

Why all the concern about the fate of grandchildren and debt?   

 

It was not that long ago that the WW2 Lend-Lease debt owed to the US was paid off.   Thank goodness I was not aware that I was 'saddled' with this debt and my taxes were going towards paying it off.  How could I have carried on?

 

Anyhoo, global warming, a meteor strike and/or nuclear armageddon will probably see these grandchildren off, not debt.

 

Oh and if an independent Scotland should renege/default on any debt owed to Westminster, good luck with trying to borrow from elsewhere.

 

Why the concern for paying thousands a year per household in interest alone when it could be going to something else? That blows my mind!

If you're unconcerned about it, fair enough though, it won't matter to you if we don't take it on.

 

 

"Oh and if an independent Scotland should renege/default on any debt owed to Westminster, good luck with trying to borrow from elsewhere."

 

I've read with my own eyes top credit rating guys discussing it (still can't find it again though, but a top guy from Standard & Poor's was one of them), Scotland has no legal obligation to pay anything so there is no reneging or defaulting, and our credit rating would be based on our first world economy and lack of bad debt history.

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Maybe England can get independence from the UK and bump it's debt onto Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland 

" bumping  " ones debt obligations is very . very low brow and common really  its the kind of thing I can imagine a certain party advocating...it would also not look good as a new emerging nation to be known as bump merchants 

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 hours ago, Jamstomorrow said:

Why all the concern about the fate of grandchildren and debt?   

 

It was not that long ago that the WW2 Lend-Lease debt owed to the US was paid off.   Thank goodness I was not aware that I was 'saddled' with this debt and my taxes were going towards paying it off.  How could I have carried on?

 

Anyhoo, global warming, a meteor strike and/or nuclear armageddon will probably see these grandchildren off, not debt.

 

Oh and if an independent Scotland should renege/default on any debt owed to Westminster, good luck with trying to borrow from elsewhere.

A very good posting. 

[The Mighty Thor]

18 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

" bumping  " ones debt obligations is very . very low brow and common really  its the kind of thing I can imagine a certain party advocating...it would also not look good as a new emerging nation to be known as bump merchants 

 

 

Aye imagine bumping your international agreements and obligations.

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

10 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Aye imagine bumping your international agreements and obligations.

 

 

aye but thats not an " emerging nation" 

[manaliveits105]

3 hours ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Maybe England can get independence from the UK and bump it's debt onto Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland 

Do a hibs they were first to dump their debt on to the UK taxpayer 

[jack D and coke]

3 hours ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Maybe England can get independence from the UK and bump it's debt onto Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland 

Well if they leave the uk would all the same things apply to them that apply to us? What currency will they use for starters? Sterling belongs to the UK no? If they leave with the BoE well that debt is theirs alone no? Happens to their pensions with a a dodgy new currency? Who’s going to lend them anything seeing they just sign agreements then decide they’re not paying any attention to them after a bit? England will suddenly then be in danger from Russia I assume? They’ll have nae nukes? Would they float a new currency the Morris dancer? The Carling? The euro?😵‍💫Oh and maybe the ruk would rejoin the EU? So wee England all on its own the world? 
You have to wonder why they don’t mess the ruk off tbh.
What a drain we are on them 

 

[The Mighty Thor]

2 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

aye but thats not an " emerging nation" 

Absolutely not. 

 

It's a 'nation' in terminal decline, on the verge of breaking apart right before your very eyes. 

 

That's what dying beasts do. They lash out. 

[The Dragon Reborn]

7 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Absolutely not. 

 

It's a 'nation' in terminal decline, on the verge of breaking apart right before your very eyes. 

 

That's what dying beasts do. They lash out. 

True dat

[Pans Jambo]

So today its debt that the experts on here are banging on about is it?

 

Your lot were already over £2Trillion in debt BEFORE it decided to kick itself clean in the balls by leaving the EU and now look where it is? Unyet, somehow Scotland would STILL be better shackled to this shit show!

 

Geez peace!

 

Edited May 17, 2022 by Pans Jambo

[Pans Jambo]

Read it and weep (or complain about train driver salaries, baby bixes and overdue ferries instead).

 

https://costofbrexit.netlify.app/

[jack D and coke]

Next couple of days should be great for the union lovers too as the Hun rampages around Seville, union jacks everywhere behaving like the utter dregs of humanity that they are all the while showing themselves ambassadors for Britain.
Its times like this I’m so glad none of them carry scotland flags. 
 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Elsie in the USA , whit about our overflowing bins 🗑 😂😂 

 

poor Nancy was looking like she didn’t know who Elsie was or couldn’t remember meeting her at Cop 21 ! Hint hen , she was the one desperate to get her pics taking with any world leaders or movers or shakers 😂

 

 

 

 

Edited May 17, 2022 by JamesM48

[jack D and coke]

4 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Elsie in the USA , whit about our overflowing bins 🗑 😂😂 

 

poor Nancy was looking like she didn’t know who Elsie was or couldn’t remember meeting her at Cop 21 ! Hint hen , she was the one desperate to get her pics taking with any world leaders or movers or shakers 😂

 

 

 

 

https://www.speaker.gov/newsroom/51622-0
Nancy seems extremely complimentary tbh. All Scottish FM’s have went incidentally, mind wee Jack McConnell prancing around in a kilt?
She is, imo just laying the ground for when scotland gets off it’s knees pal.
Stops hiding under Englands skirt. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

20 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Next couple of days should be great for the union lovers too as the Hun rampages around Seville, union jacks everywhere behaving like the utter dregs of humanity that they are all the while showing themselves ambassadors for Britain.
Its times like this I’m so glad none of them carry scotland flags. 
 

[JudyJudyJudy]

11 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

https://www.speaker.gov/newsroom/51622-0
Nancy seems extremely complimentary tbh. All Scottish FM’s have went incidentally, mind wee Jack McConnell prancing around in a kilt?
She is, imo just laying the ground for when scotland gets off it’s knees pal.
Stops hiding under Englands skirt. 

The issue is she won’t be there when Scotland gets “ off their knees “ . It’ll be a long time for that to happen , a long time . She certainly won’t be leading the people to “ the promised land “ I can guarantee that . 

[The Mighty Thor]

2 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

 I can guarantee that . 

I think the only thing you can guarantee is that what you post today will be different to what you post tomorrow. 😊

[Ray Gin]

28 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Elsie in the USA , whit about our overflowing bins 🗑 😂😂 

 

poor Nancy was looking like she didn’t know who Elsie was or couldn’t remember meeting her at Cop 21 ! Hint hen , she was the one desperate to get her pics taking with any world leaders or movers or shakers 😂

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is a what a leader being shunned looks like: