Trans athletes

[JudyJudyJudy]

Troubles a brewing 

 

 

 

 

[New Town Loafer]

7 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

Troubles a brewing 

 

 

 

 

The Greens in Scotland are genuinely an extremist, hard-left party, primarily voted for by the blue-haired, edgy, ‘all white men should feel guilty’ brigade. Embarrassing that they are represented in the Scottish government.

 

The trans debate is starting to see a backlash from a lot of people now, many of whom have left-leaning politics. They are beginning to see it for what it is.

Edited April 12, 2022 by New Town Loafer

[Lord Montpelier]

23 minutes ago, New Town Loafer said:

The Greens in Scotland are genuinely an extremist, hard-left party, primarily voted for by the blue-haired, edgy, ‘all white men should feel guilty’ brigade. Embarrassing that they are represented in the Scottish government.

 

The trans debate is starting to see a backlash from a lot of people now, many of whom have left-leaning politics. They are beginning to see it for what it is.

Thats a good summation of them. No coincidence that they are also Sturgeons little mates  

[New Town Loafer]

4 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Thats a good summation of them. No coincidence that they are also Sturgeons little mates  

No surprise at all. They’re actually even less competent - and have even less talent -  than the SNP. 
 

Probably why the SNP like having them around.

[Robbies right hand man]

I’m definitely on the side of making sure women’s rights and safe spaces are priority and kept safe.

 

I have to admit, I don’t really care if someone defines oneself as “he” “she” or anything else for that matter. I’ll respect that as much as I’d call someone by their preferred name.

 

I agree with James however - LBG rights should not be entwined by transgenderism. That’s no to say of course however, that I don’t think anyone going through transition etc should be abused in any way, shape or form. I respect these people as I do with anyone else, regardless of sex, race, religion, sexual preference etc. 
 

But to demand to be able to compete in women’s sport, use female toilets, go to female prison etc etc, is arguably abusing and ignoring women’s rights and therefore there has to be an understanding and “red lines” for want of a better phrase.

 

For example, would it be so bad to have trans female/male bathrooms, sports categories etc? 

 

Ultimately, and it’s only my opinion - I believe it does fall under the category of body distortion - something which should be treated with symphony and understanding but not treated in the same way as someone who happens to be gay etc.

 

I also tend to ignore the “extreme” stories such as the example of trans women demanding sex from lesbians etc. It actually derails from sensible conversations and ultimately without real evidence promotes hatred which anyone and everyone should be against.

 

All just my opinion of course.

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 hours ago, New Town Loafer said:

The Greens in Scotland are genuinely an extremist, hard-left party, primarily voted for by the blue-haired, edgy, ‘all white men should feel guilty’ brigade. Embarrassing that they are represented in the Scottish government.

 

The trans debate is starting to see a backlash from a lot of people now, many of whom have left-leaning politics. They are beginning to see it for what it is.

Correct 👍

1 hour ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Thats a good summation of them. No coincidence that they are also Sturgeons little mates  

Correct 👍

1 hour ago, New Town Loafer said:

No surprise at all. They’re actually even less competent - and have even less talent -  than the SNP. 
 

Probably why the SNP like having them around.

[JudyJudyJudy]

9 minutes ago, Robbies right hand man said:

I’m definitely on the side of making sure women’s rights and safe spaces are priority and kept safe.

 

I have to admit, I don’t really care if someone defines oneself as “he” “she” or anything else for that matter. I’ll respect that as much as I’d call someone by their preferred name.

 

I agree with James however - LBG rights should not be entwined by transgenderism. That’s no to say of course however, that I don’t think anyone going through transition etc should be abused in any way, shape or form. I respect these people as I do with anyone else, regardless of sex, race, religion, sexual preference etc. 
 

But to demand to be able to compete in women’s sport, use female toilets, go to female prison etc etc, is arguably abusing and ignoring women’s rights and therefore there has to be an understanding and “red lines” for want of a better phrase.

 

For example, would it be so bad to have trans female/male bathrooms, sports categories etc? 

 

Ultimately, and it’s only my opinion - I believe it does fall under the category of body distortion - something which should be treated with symphony and understanding but not treated in the same way as someone who happens to be gay etc.

 

I also tend to ignore the “extreme” stories such as the example of trans women demanding sex from lesbians etc. It actually derails from sensible conversations and ultimately without real evidence promotes hatred which anyone and everyone should be against.

 

All just my opinion of course.

👍👍

[graygo]

6 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Correct 👍

Correct 👍

 

It's not "correct", the words you are looking for are "I agree".

[JudyJudyJudy]

Great article . A Brave,  assertive intelligent bunch of women 

 

 

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/jk-rowling-joins-ladies-who-lunch-and-laugh-off-trans-fury-hb5d5mmcr?fbclid=IwAR0jXnhZP-682vnco7G11yrVgevXXJevzCQ6iTF9iqNZ4EzpvVmT7c2qfys

Edited April 12, 2022 by JamesM48

[The Dragon Reborn]

I’ve seen some people make comparisons between the current battle around transgender rights and previous battles for gay rights. It’s a very different situation imo.
 

The big difference for me is that the rights homosexual people fought for didn’t in any way impinge upon the rights of other people within society. By contrast, the rights being demanded by some transgender campaigners not only risk the rights of others, they potentially endanger them too.

 

I’m a live and let live person and fully support the life choices of transgender people. There needs to be a sensible approach found to best meeting the needs of everyone.

[JudyJudyJudy]

53 minutes ago, The Dragon Reborn said:

I’ve seen some people make comparisons between the current battle around transgender rights and previous battles for gay rights. It’s a very different situation imo.
 

The big difference for me is that the rights homosexual people fought for didn’t in any way impinge upon the rights of other people within society. By contrast, the rights being demanded by some transgender campaigners not only risk the rights of others, they potentially endanger them too.

 

I’m a live and let live person and fully support the life choices of transgender people. There needs to be a sensible approach found to best meeting the needs of everyone.

In a nutshell 👍

[New Town Loafer]

5 hours ago, The Dragon Reborn said:

I’ve seen some people make comparisons between the current battle around transgender rights and previous battles for gay rights. It’s a very different situation imo.
 

The big difference for me is that the rights homosexual people fought for didn’t in any way impinge upon the rights of other people within society. By contrast, the rights being demanded by some transgender campaigners not only risk the rights of others, they potentially endanger them too.

 

I’m a live and let live person and fully support the life choices of transgender people. There needs to be a sensible approach found to best meeting the needs of everyone.

Indeed. The two situations cannot be compared at all, mainly because one involved sexuality and the other gender identity.

 

The people saying to ‘gender critical’ (I don’t like the term) people ‘you sound like the racists/homophobes/bigots of yesterday’ are disingenuous and are using it to shut down criticism of their agenda.

Edited April 12, 2022 by New Town Loafer

[Ulysses]

On 11/04/2022 at 12:06, John Findlay said:

I would humbly suggest you have all missed each others point(s).

 

In one important respect it doesn't matter what our points are - people need to tell it like it is, not how they want it to be.  doctor jambo and I aren't really disagreeing about the substantive stuff; I'm simply saying that feeling strongly about an issue isn't a good enough reason to say something is happening if it isn't.  doctor jambo cited a BBC article in support of his argument, one where unfortunately the headline and the story didn't match.  That's not the doc's fault, it's the BBC's.  But at least he did offer some evidence to back up his point of view, which is something others could learn from in this "post-truth" world of ours.

[John Findlay]

9 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

In one important respect it doesn't matter what our points are - people need to tell it like it is, not how they want it to be.  doctor jambo and I aren't really disagreeing about the substantive stuff; I'm simply saying that feeling strongly about an issue isn't a good enough reason to say something is happening if it isn't.  doctor jambo cited a BBC article in support of his argument, one where unfortunately the headline and the story didn't match.  That's not the doc's fault, it's the BBC's.  But at least he did offer some evidence to back up his point of view, which is something others could learn from in this "post-truth" world of ours.

I agree. It's the old cliche. There are three truths. Your truth, their truth, and the truth.

[EH11_2NL]

https://metro.co.uk/2022/04/12/ex-soldier-exposed-her-penis-and-used-wheelie-bin-as-sex-toy-in-public-16454386/?ito=socialmetrouktwitter

 

Genuinely don't know what to say anymore. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

29 minutes ago, EH11_2NL said:

https://metro.co.uk/2022/04/12/ex-soldier-exposed-her-penis-and-used-wheelie-bin-as-sex-toy-in-public-16454386/?ito=socialmetrouktwitter

 

Genuinely don't know what to say anymore. 

It’s just so offensive to refer to him as “ she “ and “ her “ appalling 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Good stuff here from “ the 9” the trans activist losing the rag yet again . They don’t want any debate 

 

 

 

 

[A Boy Named Crow]

4 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

Good stuff here from “ the 9” the trans activist losing the rag yet again . They don’t want any debate 

 

 

 

 

Listening to them going at it just hammers home the problem with an obsession with "identity" as a defining characteristic.  

 

It's not just gender identity, it's anything - sexuality,  race, nationality, political leanings, professional identity...

 

Everybody is an individual, everybody has their own ideas, hopes, dreams, aspirations, opinions... the list goes on.

 

If you stop identifying as the individual that you are,  and rather define yourself as whatever identity, it colours the way you think,  react, discuss etc. You are no longer doing these things as yourself,  but as whatever identity you've attached yourself to,  and in the main folk end up coming across as dogmatic, unthinking zealots. 

 

Before anyone gets all smug, this is especially true of identifying as a supporter of a football club 😂 All sense of rationality or perspective goes out the window. 

[graygo]

6 hours ago, A Boy Named Crow said:

Listening to them going at it just hammers home the problem with an obsession with "identity" as a defining characteristic.  

 

It's not just gender identity, it's anything - sexuality,  race, nationality, political leanings, professional identity...

 

Everybody is an individual, everybody has their own ideas, hopes, dreams, aspirations, opinions... the list goes on.

 

If you stop identifying as the individual that you are,  and rather define yourself as whatever identity, it colours the way you think,  react, discuss etc. You are no longer doing these things as yourself,  but as whatever identity you've attached yourself to,  and in the main folk end up coming across as dogmatic, unthinking zealots. 

 

Before anyone gets all smug, this is especially true of identifying as a supporter of a football club 😂 All sense of rationality or perspective goes out the window. 

Do you mean like a homosexual who manages to mention the fact in just about every conversation they are involved in? 

 

Edited to add - Even though nobody cares.

Edited April 14, 2022 by graygo

[JudyJudyJudy]

A creep

 

 

https://www.gbnews.uk/news/non-binary-teen-turned-away-from-monsoons-female-changing-rooms-offered-free-prom-dress-as-shop-committed-to-inclusivity/271785?fbclid=IwAR1sBs0D0KaB-PWdtSbyg4VxvSqfm_JkQ_zPybv9TvOGQjAS6Fjy93cQUSA

[graygo]

9 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

A creep

 

 

https://www.gbnews.uk/news/non-binary-teen-turned-away-from-monsoons-female-changing-rooms-offered-free-prom-dress-as-shop-committed-to-inclusivity/271785?fbclid=IwAR1sBs0D0KaB-PWdtSbyg4VxvSqfm_JkQ_zPybv9TvOGQjAS6Fjy93cQUSA

 

Homosexuals used to be viewed as creeps, probably still are by some.

 

It is not wrong for "males" to wear "female" clothes, you have said as much yourself so why shouldn't they be allowed to try them on? Why aren't rooms for trying things on unisex? Like they are in many shops already, there's where the solution lies not insulting them and denying their existence.

Edited April 14, 2022 by graygo

[A Boy Named Crow]

37 minutes ago, graygo said:

Do you mean like a homosexual who manages to mention the fact in just about every conversation they are involved in? 

 

Edited to add - Even though nobody cares.

Ha, I wasn't, but I'm sure such a person would never be triggered by a comment like yours... there'd certainly not be a torrent of GIFs 

[graygo]

1 minute ago, A Boy Named Crow said:

Ha, I wasn't, but I'm sure such a person would never be triggered by a comment like yours... there'd certainly not be a torrent of GIFs 

 

It was a hypothetical question, I'm sure such a person doesn't exist.

[A Boy Named Crow]

4 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

It was a hypothetical question, I'm sure such a person doesn't exist.

Certainly never encountered such a person on here, I reckon you're in the clear.

 

 

Edited April 14, 2022 by A Boy Named Crow

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, A Boy Named Crow said:

Ha, I wasn't, but I'm sure such a person would never be triggered by a comment like yours... there'd certainly not be a torrent of GIFs 

I just ignore him . I have zero interest in what he says . I think he has an issue with my sexuality , never fails to go on about it ! Obsessed 

[Ron Burgundy]

Science doesn't and shouldn't give a flying feck about feelings.

 

 

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

32 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Science doesn't and shouldn't give a flying feck about feelings.

 

 

 

 

Exactly . The Article About the self entitled biological man crying cause he couldn’t use a female dressing room speaks volumes . It’s up to how most females feel about this issue and do not want a non binary man with his body parts still in tact flashing himself off and geting his jollies being in women only spaces . It’s exhibitionism 

[graygo]

3 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

Exactly . The Article About the self entitled biological man crying cause he couldn’t use a female dressing room speaks volumes . It’s up to how most females feel about this issue and do not want a non binary man with his body parts still in tact flashing himself off and geting his jollies being in women only spaces . It’s exhibitionism 

 

So should the non binary or transgender person who to all intents and purposes looks, acts and lives like a female be forced to use the gent's toilets and changing rooms? Who gets the jollies then?

 

The answer is quite obviously their own space or at least gender neutral space, why you are so against this is beyond me.

 

ps. I've yet to see the fitting room in a shop where you can try thing on with your bits on show.

Edited April 14, 2022 by graygo

[doctor jambo]

6 hours ago, graygo said:

 

Homosexuals used to be viewed as creeps, probably still are by some.

 

It is not wrong for "males" to wear "female" clothes, you have said as much yourself so why shouldn't they be allowed to try them on? Why aren't rooms for trying things on unisex? Like they are in many shops already, there's where the solution lies not insulting them and denying their existence.

Nobody denied their existence .

Quite clearly .

The presence of a male in a female changing room could be a voyeur , a predator or just a teen being a pest.

Id have to admit I wouldn’t immediately presume that said teen was a girl trying on a dress .

I have worked in retail, see said person going into female changing and I’d be concerned for any women in there and the ramifications if I did nothing.

”shop workers watched rapist enter changing rooms”

[graygo]

3 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Nobody denied their existence .

Quite clearly .

The presence of a male in a female changing room could be a voyeur , a predator or just a teen being a pest.

Id have to admit I wouldn’t immediately presume that said teen was a girl trying on a dress .

I have worked in retail, see said person going into female changing and I’d be concerned for any women in there and the ramifications if I did nothing.

”shop workers watched rapist enter changing rooms”

 

Are changing rooms in shops communal? Not in my experience.

 

ps. Good that you're not denying they were insulted though. 👍

Edited April 14, 2022 by graygo

[doctor jambo]

3 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Are changing rooms in shops communal? Not in my experience.

No, that’s the point.

Men are far more highly sexed, and more likely to be predatory, so are kept apart from women for comfort and safety.as well as privacy.

whether Charlie likes it or not, no matter what she thinks or prefers, or goes on between those ears, females look and see “man”. Once transitioned those rights are there for her benefit too.

Followed by WTF, shouldn’t be in here.

[JudyJudyJudy]

14 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Nobody denied their existence .

Quite clearly .

The presence of a male in a female changing room could be a voyeur , a predator or just a teen being a pest.

Id have to admit I wouldn’t immediately presume that said teen was a girl trying on a dress .

I have worked in retail, see said person going into female changing and I’d be concerned for any women in there and the ramifications if I did nothing.

”shop workers watched rapist enter changing rooms”

He’s stuck on the hamster wheel equating gay / lesbian fight for equality as the same As trans rights and their fight . He’s just not getting it . 

[doctor jambo]

1 hour ago, graygo said:

 

So should the non binary or transgender person who to all intents and purposes looks, acts and lives like a female be forced to use the gent's toilets and changing rooms? Who gets the jollies then?

 

The answer is quite obviously their own space or at least gender neutral space, why you are so against this is beyond me.

 

ps. I've yet to see the fitting room in a shop where you can try thing on with your bits on show.

And sometimes what teenagers need is not to continually be told that they are right, and that the entire world neither revolves around them, nor has to bend for them, and most of it doesn’t give a rats ass what they think.

[kingantti1874]

how many individuals who have transitioned from female to male have been able to compete at a high level never mind win anything.

 

the answer is of course zero.

 

People should do what makes them happy.  But the line should be drawn at professional sport. There is no debate to be had. 

[graygo]

2 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

No, that’s the point.

Men are far more highly sexed, and more likely to be predatory, so are kept apart from women for comfort and safety.as well as privacy.

whether Charlie likes it or not, no matter what she thinks or prefers, or goes on between those ears, females look and see “man”. Once transitioned those rights are there for her benefit too.

Followed by WTF, shouldn’t be in here.

 

Not communal = separate = kept apart.

Not sure why they then need separate "rooms"

 

I'm not sure what the bit in bold means.

 

 

[graygo]

1 minute ago, kingantti1874 said:

how many individuals who have transitioned from female to male have been able to compete at a high level never mind win anything.

 

the answer is of course zero.

 

People should do what makes them happy.  But the line should be drawn at professional sport. There is no debate to be had. 

I don't think anyone on here is debating that to be fair.

[doctor jambo]

Just now, kingantti1874 said:

how many individuals who have transitioned from female to male have been able to compete at a high level never mind win anything.

 

the answer is of course zero.

 

People should do what makes them happy.  But the line should be drawn at professional sport. There is no debate to be had. 

The line is being fought at fairness to women- the childbearing , menstruating one’s of my childhood.

female to male are no threat to anyone, hence why they are never part of this debate, nor any debate ever, frankly.

[graygo]

2 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

And sometimes what teenagers need is not to continually be told that they are right, and that the entire world neither revolves around them, nor has to bend for them, and most of it doesn’t give a rats ass what they think.

 

Can they sometimes be right or should we always not give a rat's ass what they think?

[kingantti1874]

1 minute ago, graygo said:

I don't think anyone on here is debating that to be fair.

Yeah agree mate, just giving my view in the wider debate in society. 
 

a waste of oxygen if you ask me.

[kingantti1874]

1 minute ago, doctor jambo said:

The line is being fought at fairness to women- the childbearing , menstruating one’s of my childhood.

female to male are no threat to anyone, hence why they are never part of this debate, nor any debate ever, frankly.

I don’t think I’m arguing doc! 

[graygo]

1 minute ago, doctor jambo said:

The line is being fought at fairness to women- the childbearing , menstruating one’s of my childhood.

female to male are no threat to anyone, hence why they are never part of this debate, nor any debate ever, frankly.

You're right, a female to male transgender is no threat to anyone but by Christ they are often the victims of crime by narrow minded arseholes.

[doctor jambo]

2 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Not communal = separate = kept apart.

Not sure why they then need separate "rooms"

 

I'm not sure what the bit in bold means.

 

 

You don’t understand why women or shop assistants should be allarmed by the presence of teenage boys in womens changing rooms ?

Genuinely ?

As a dude, I am quite happy to accept the anti- man theme that runs through this whole thing- and that is what it is about- because it’s true and real.

Sexist , sure, but it’s not really anti trans- it’s anti male

[graygo]

6 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

He’s stuck on the hamster wheel equating gay / lesbian fight for equality as the same As trans rights and their fight . He’s just not getting it . 

 

Trans rights? You don't even think that's a thing. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

6 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

how many individuals who have transitioned from female to male have been able to compete at a high level never mind win anything.

 

the answer is of course zero.

 

People should do what makes them happy.  But the line should be drawn at professional sport. There is no debate to be had. 

It’s not just about sport . 

[graygo]

Just now, doctor jambo said:

You don’t understand why women or shop assistants should be allarmed by the presence of teenage boys in womens changing rooms ?

Genuinely ?

As a dude, I am quite happy to accept the anti- man theme that runs through this whole thing- and that is what it is about- because it’s true and real.

Sexist , sure, but it’s not really anti trans- it’s anti male

 

No I don't. Let's use Sports Direct as an example - they have fitting rooms and they are non gender specific. I think every shop should be like that 

[graygo]

1 minute ago, JamesM48 said:

It’s not just about sport . 

 

This thread is.

[doctor jambo]

4 minutes ago, graygo said:

You're right, a female to male transgender is no threat to anyone but by Christ they are often the victims of crime by narrow minded arseholes.

Yes, by men.

 

[doctor jambo]

16 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Trans rights? You don't even think that's a thing. 

He does , just doesn’t believe they trump womens rights

[graygo]

4 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

He does , just doesn’t believe they trump womens rights

Nobody's rights trump anyone else's rights, that's called discrimination.

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

He does , just doesn’t believe they trump womens rights

👍👍