***Summer 2021 Transfer Window - Barrie McKay signs 2 year deal ***

[Arthur Morgan]

We could have done with a striker like Cummings today... 

[OTT]

Seems like we're getting a clearer idea where the squad needs freshening up. RWB & CF, 

 

Would like to see Shaun Rooney and Elijah Adebayo signed up. Both available on frees at the end of the season (assuming neither St Johnstone or Luton have 1 year options). 

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

23 hours ago, Arthur Morgan said:

We could have done with a striker like Cummings today... 

without falling into a complete trap there is a bit of truth to this - that being said we can clearly get better than a Dundee sub…

[davemclaren]

33 minutes ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

without falling into a complete trap there is a bit of truth to this - that being said we can clearly get better than a Dundee sub…

I thought we could have done with someone more like Cillian Sheridan. I think he had a big impact on the match with his aggressive style. 

[Samuel Camazzola]

28 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

I thought we could have done with someone more like Cillian Sheridan. I think he had a big impact on the match with his aggressive style. 

Gary Madine is the type of player we need but think that ship may now have sailed since he is starting for Blackpool again. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

When Cummings came on, if we're honest we all thought there's good chance he would score. While that's mainly down to him being one of these players who scores against us, we could do with someone coming off the bench who creates those kind of doubts in the opposition. Not sure Gnando, GMS or Ginnelly do that.

 

Going back to the other debate on Jamie Walker, I do think he's someone who carries that proven threat. No idea what striker we could sign, but a proven finisher would be good but hard to find and probably expensive.

Edited October 24, 2021 by ToqueJambo

[south morocco]

56 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

I thought we could have done with someone more like Cillian Sheridan. I think he had a big impact on the match with his aggressive style. 

He was good when he came on and made a difference to them. I never knew it was him in after the game.He certainly mixed it up a bit for them, 

[OTT]

I think whoever we sign as our striker will be an interesting one. I think we need someone strong in the air, a Paterson type would be awesome (if not the man himself). 

 

Would love to see the shortlist. 

[Fozzyonthefence]

3 hours ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

without falling into a complete trap there is a bit of truth to this - that being said we can clearly get better than a Dundee sub…

We can and should but at the moment we don’t.  

[Unknown user]

On 23/10/2021 at 18:45, Tommy Brown said:

McKay was our best player today.

Should  not have been subbed until very late on, if at all.

Trying to keep Ginnelly interested.

McKay> Ginelly by dar

 

I thought so too, I've been very pleasantly surprised by him

[Arthur Morgan]

On 23/10/2021 at 18:45, Tommy Brown said:

McKay was our best player today.

Should  not have been subbed until very late on, if at all.

Trying to keep Ginnelly interested.

McKay> Ginelly by dar

 

Ginelly has really disappointed me this season. I can't see him making it here sadly. 

Edited October 25, 2021 by Arthur Morgan

[Batistuta87]

On 23/10/2021 at 18:45, Tommy Brown said:

McKay was our best player today.

Should  not have been subbed until very late on, if at all.

Trying to keep Ginnelly interested.

McKay> Ginelly by dar

 

I really like McKay. He just carries himself differently to our other wingers and has a quiet confidence about him. He's formed quite a good relationship with Michael Smith and they seem to read each other well - Smith knowing when to overlap, McKay knowing when to run, etc etc. He looks to be a very good signing  

 

[Mr Rabbit]

15 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

When Cummings came on, if we're honest we all thought there's good chance he would score. While that's mainly down to him being one of these players who scores against us, we could do with someone coming off the bench who creates those kind of doubts in the opposition. Not sure Gnando, GMS or Ginnelly do that.

 

Going back to the other debate on Jamie Walker, I do think he's someone who carries that proven threat. No idea what striker we could sign, but a proven finisher would be good but hard to find and probably expensive.

Wouldn’t agree with that. The biggest threat out of all their strikers was Sheridan.

 

I don’t recall Cummings having any impact apart from the goal which was an absolute gift. His scoring record also doesn’t imply he’s someone who does this consistently. In fact he probably scores less than Gnando does, he isn’t the solution.

[Unknown user]

27 minutes ago, Batistuta87 said:

 

I really like McKay. He just carries himself differently to our other wingers and has a quiet confidence about him. He's formed quite a good relationship with Michael Smith and they seem to read each other well - Smith knowing when to overlap, McKay knowing when to run, etc etc. He looks to be a very good signing  

 

 

Agreed, he's very positive and effective, another really good signing by the look of it.

[merseyjambo]

20 hours ago, OTT said:

Seems like we're getting a clearer idea where the squad needs freshening up. RWB & CF, 

 

Would like to see Shaun Rooney and Elijah Adebayo signed up. Both available on frees at the end of the season (assuming neither St Johnstone or Luton have 1 year options). 

Based on his goalscoring record, I’d be amazed if Luton don’t offer Adebayo a new contract

[OTT]

11 minutes ago, merseyjambo said:

Based on his goalscoring record, I’d be amazed if Luton don’t offer Adebayo a new contract

They can offer him a contract but we’re also entitled to do that. I’m talking about the option of an extra year some contracts have which nullifys that side of it. (ie it isn’t up to the player to accept or not, per his contact the option is with the club not him). 
 

I do accept financially this ship has probably sailed but always worth asking the question. European football might be a draw if our squad is looking good come the end of the season. 

[merseyjambo]

Just now, OTT said:

They can offer him a contract but we’re also entitled to do that. I’m talking about the option of an extra year some contracts have which nullifys that side of it. (ie it isn’t up to the player to accept or not, per his contact the option is with the club not him). 
 

I do accept financially this ship has probably sailed but always worth asking the question. European football might be a draw if our squad is looking good come the end of the season. 

Agreed re ship sailed as I suspect there will be clubs with more cash looking at him

[merseyjambo]

Whether it would be possible, I don’t know but Everton have a striker who was injured at start of season called Ellis Simms. 
 

I don’t know if he could be an option until the summer when he’s out of contract. He needs games as I don’t think Everton have made their mind up about him.

[Naisys Tackle]

1 hour ago, Mr Rabbit said:

Wouldn’t agree with that. The biggest threat out of all their strikers was Sheridan.

 

I don’t recall Cummings having any impact apart from the goal which was an absolute gift. His scoring record also doesn’t imply he’s someone who does this consistently. In fact he probably scores less than Gnando does, he isn’t the solution.

Sheridan still looks class.  He’s like a better stronger Tony Watt. 

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, Robbies Tackle said:

Sheridan still looks class.  He’s like a better stronger Tony Watt. 

 

I've always liked/hated him

[Naisys Tackle]

Just now, Smithee said:

 

I've always liked/hated him

Know what you mean mate  

[Batistuta87]

59 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

I've always liked/hated him

Doesn't score much but is a bit of a nuisance with his height and strength. Think Souttar and Halkett in particular dealt with their strikers quite well on Saturday. Halkett is a different player in a three. 

 

[Unknown user]

5 minutes ago, Batistuta87 said:

Doesn't score much but is a bit of a nuisance with his height and strength. Think Souttar and Halkett in particular dealt with their strikers quite well on Saturday. Halkett is a different player in a three. 

 

There are a couple of games from years ago where I vaguely remember cursing his name, I'm sure he scored a couple for Killie at Tynie and has generally been a right pain against us

[Tommy Brown]

Obviously not a striker, but @OTT shout for Shaun Rooney gets seconded by me.

Good replacement for Smith.

But of a Callum Paterson, big strong and full of running.

[Famous 1874]

I wonder if Rooney is another one of those players that his goals get him recognition. How good is he actually at defending? 

[Arthur Morgan]

4 hours ago, Famous 1874 said:

I wonder if Rooney is another one of those players that his goals get him recognition. How good is he actually at defending? 

 

He would be playing RWB though which in our system is pretty attacking. Of course you still have to defend but it's more secondary in our system.

[ri Alban]

It has to be said Callum Paterson is rotten.

[Bazzas right boot]

4 hours ago, ri Alban said:

It has to be said Callum Paterson is rotten.

 

I think he's effective. 

He's not as good as some make out but in lower leagues of England and in Scotland he's an effective player. 

 

Used correctly he can make a difference to a team. 

 

He'd not be good value at the current time tho for a club like Hearts. 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

6 hours ago, Arthur Morgan said:

 

He would be playing RWB though which in our system is pretty attacking. Of course you still have to defend but it's more secondary in our system.

 

 

Diagree that defending is secondary Tbh. 

I think most managers would disagree as well. 

 

 

[OTT]

7 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Diagree that defending is secondary Tbh. 

I think most managers would disagree as well. 

 

 

I’m not sure, you’re certainly expecting far more in an attacking sense from a wingback than you would a fullback but you’re also not absolving them of defensive duties. 
Suppose it’s one of those ones where the answer is somewhere in the middle. You obviously don’t want someone that can’t defend but you don’t want someone who’s only instinct is to defend.  
 

I could be making this up, but isn’t Rooney more of a wingback than a RB anyway so would be a good fit for our system? He certainly seems to have a knack for scoring important goals and would increase our threat from set pieces. 

 

I wonder what it would take in January to get Rooney? Definitely a player I could see Neilson liking. 

[GinRummy]

6 minutes ago, OTT said:

I’m not sure, you’re certainly expecting far more in an attacking sense from a wingback than you would a fullback but you’re also not absolving them of defensive duties. 
Suppose it’s one of those ones where the answer is somewhere in the middle. You obviously don’t want someone that can’t defend but you don’t want someone who’s only instinct is to defend.  
 

I could be making this up, but isn’t Rooney more of a wingback than a RB anyway so would be a good fit for our system? He certainly seems to have a knack for scoring important goals and would increase our threat from set pieces. 

 

I wonder what it would take in January to get Rooney? Definitely a player I could see Neilson liking. 

I’m not going to start a Robbie debate but I think what he wants is a fairly solid 7 players who’s skills , first and foremost, is defending with three players who have individual skills that can produce a ‘moment’ as RN describes it. Don’t get me wrong, there are plenty times when the more defensive players get involved in attacks (Souttar on Saturday is a recent example) but he’s building a team who are definitely stronger defensively.

Edited October 26, 2021 by GinRummy

[davemclaren]

16 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

I’m not going to start a Robbie debate but I think what he wants is a fairly solid 7 players who’s skills , first and foremost, is defending with three players who have individual skills that can produce a ‘moment’ as RN describes it. Don’t get me wrong, there are plenty times when the more defensive players get involved in attacks (Souttar on Saturday is a recent example) but he’s building a team who are definitely stronger defensively.

Second top scorers but third best defence so far. 

[Bazzas right boot]

22 minutes ago, OTT said:

I’m not sure, you’re certainly expecting far more in an attacking sense from a wingback than you would a fullback but you’re also not absolving them of defensive duties. 
Suppose it’s one of those ones where the answer is somewhere in the middle. You obviously don’t want someone that can’t defend but you don’t want someone who’s only instinct is to defend.  
 

I could be making this up, but isn’t Rooney more of a wingback than a RB anyway so would be a good fit for our system? He certainly seems to have a knack for scoring important goals and would increase our threat from set pieces. 

 

I wonder what it would take in January to get Rooney? Definitely a player I could see Neilson liking. 

 

 

Possibly, all fair. 

16 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

I’m not going to start a Robbie debate but I think what he wants is a fairly solid 7 players who’s skills , first and foremost, is defending with three players who have individual skills that can produce a ‘moment’ as RN describes it. Don’t get me wrong, there are plenty times when the more defensive players get involved in attacks (Souttar on Saturday is a recent example) but he’s building a team who are definitely stronger defensively.

 

This season yes, if we get in Europe I think you'll see another 4 or 5 better players and then more change in our set up. 

 

We're at the start of a journey here. 

 

We're walking, next season we'll break in to a jog. 

 

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, davemclaren said:

Second top scorers but third best defence so far. 

I’m going to point to the Ross County change in formation to explain that away. 

[5-1Jambo]

8 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Diagree that defending is secondary Tbh. 

I think most managers would disagree as well. 

 

 

Fergie built his teams round a solid defence. Make your team hard to beat first and foremost. 

[GinRummy]

2 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Possibly, all fair. 

 

This season yes, if we get in Europe I think you'll see another 4 or 5 better players and then more change in our set up. 

 

We're at the start of a journey here. 

 

We're walking, next season we'll break in to a jog. 

 

Here’s hoping. We are certainly moving in the right direction. 👍

[Bazzas right boot]

1 minute ago, 5-1Jambo said:

Fergie built his teams round a solid defence. Make your team hard to beat first and foremost. 

 

It's basic stuff Tbh. 

Almost every manager, if not every manager will start with that in mind. 

 

It's not a Robbie or Hearts thing. 

It's just practical. 

 

[Arthur Morgan]

8 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Diagree that defending is secondary Tbh. 

I think most managers would disagree as well. 

 

 

 

If it's a 5 at the back system then yeah, but the way we play in most games it's supposed to be 3 at the back, so imo the attacking abilities are more important in a WB than the defensive ones. I don't think defensive attributes are completely disregarded, but I do think the attacking abilities are more important.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Arthur Morgan

[No longer active]

With MacKay, GMS, Cochrane and supposedly Walker and Ginelly in the squad we must improve delivery into the box with quality balls. Obviously we need a CF to use such delivery.

Where from though? Do we go for youth, pay cash, or take a punt on a free agent or yet another loanee?

 

Whats Robson-Kanu doing since leaving West Brom? Alright he is the wrong side of 30 but he is a tall, strong CF with pedigree. Whats Lafferty doing? Uche has not got the touch we need - he always seemed to control the ball with his 3rd touch. A bit like Boyce to be fair!! If we could find a CF with say Cochrane's ability to control the ball first time then we would be more of a threat up front.

[davemclaren]

11 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

I’m going to point to the Ross County change in formation to explain that away. 

😄

[Arthur Morgan]

38 minutes ago, OTT said:

I’m not sure, you’re certainly expecting far more in an attacking sense from a wingback than you would a fullback but you’re also not absolving them of defensive duties. 
Suppose it’s one of those ones where the answer is somewhere in the middle. You obviously don’t want someone that can’t defend but you don’t want someone who’s only instinct is to defend.  

 

Yeah I agree with this.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

8 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Diagree that defending is secondary Tbh. 

I think most managers would disagree as well. 

 

 

 

Just speaking about the WB positions in a back 3/back 5 system, I think in a lot of 3-4-3 or similar setups managers see it as taking a lot of the defensive work off of the fullbacks by adding another CH and letting them range forward.

 

I think what Robbie has done with our 3-4-3 is a little different, in that we have four CHs who, each in their own ways, have some real attacking verve. Putting three of them back there and then keeping the WBs in more of a FB-style defensive role (partially because Smith and Cochrane are excellent edge defenders but lack a bit going forward), it means that any one of the CHs has the freedom to carry the ball all the way through the midfield if given space, which each of them do at times.

 

Regarding Paterson specifically, when he played RB for us he always seemed a little clumsy defence but not to the point of being a bombscare. He was one of our best players if not the best the season we finished 3rd and while we moaned about his defence a bit, and the defence was always more settled when Liam Smith came in, he always offered so much more than he subtracted.

[bringonthesevco]

I'd like us to stick with the same formation but swap a few players about depending on opposition, if its a game we're likely to dominate (like Sat v Dundee) then I'd like to see us try someone different at RWB like McEneff - we know we're not going to be massively challenged defensively and he'd off more of a goalscoring threat going forward.  Different v Rangers, Celtic or the Hobos where Smith keeps it tighter at the back, but we need a way to get more attacking options against teams that sit in...

 

Devlin and Beni are great players and should play all the time but on evidence so far they're not going to add many goals...

 

So for me in Jan - We deffo need a striker to give us another option that Boyce and we either need to try McEneff at RWB or sign a better attacking one...

[Cruyff]

Shoulda signed the other Ross Stewart from County. He'd have been an excellent option. 

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

42 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

 

Just speaking about the WB positions in a back 3/back 5 system, I think in a lot of 3-4-3 or similar setups managers see it as taking a lot of the defensive work off of the fullbacks by adding another CH and letting them range forward.

 

I think what Robbie has done with our 3-4-3 is a little different, in that we have four CHs who, each in their own ways, have some real attacking verve. Putting three of them back there and then keeping the WBs in more of a FB-style defensive role (partially because Smith and Cochrane are excellent edge defenders but lack a bit going forward), it means that any one of the CHs has the freedom to carry the ball all the way through the midfield if given space, which each of them do at times.

 

Regarding Paterson specifically, when he played RB for us he always seemed a little clumsy defence but not to the point of being a bombscare. He was one of our best players if not the best the season we finished 3rd and while we moaned about his defence a bit, and the defence was always more settled when Liam Smith came in, he always offered so much more than he subtracted.

i get this - Souttar was in effect playing as a midfield general at the weekend. Switching play, bring the ball up the pitch, scoring that goal.

 

Kingsley got forward a load too, as can Moore.

 

I still can’t help though that this is simply the first 6 months of a work in progress that may take 18 months to have all the pieces in place.

 

Get the formation in place and incrementally improve the team as and when we can attract better players - which will be window by window with our current set up IMO.

 

So what I mean by this is that next summer Cochrane and Smith will be superseded by wing backs that can defend but are more proficient at attacking.

 

We’ll also have a better main focus point as striker next season - and that is not to slag Boyce, but we will. 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, Arthur Morgan said:

 

If it's a 5 at the back system then yeah, but the way we play in most games it's supposed to be 3 at the back, so imo the attacking abilities are more important in a WB than the defensive ones. I don't think defensive attributes are completely disregarded, but I do think the attacking abilities are more important.

 

 

You defend as a team and attack as a team.

 

Strong defence is, the base from which any team starts. 

 

Defending is such a general time as well. 

You can defend in the final third or your own third, it's not just defenders that defend or strikers that attack. 

A bit broad to discuss, would need it's own thread. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[GinRummy]

33 minutes ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

i get this - Souttar was in effect playing as a midfield general at the weekend. Switching play, bring the ball up the pitch, scoring that goal.

 

Kingsley got forward a load too, as can Moore.

 

I still can’t help though that this is simply the first 6 months of a work in progress that may take 18 months to have all the pieces in place.

 

Get the formation in place and incrementally improve the team as and when we can attract better players - which will be window by window with our current set up IMO.

 

So what I mean by this is that next summer Cochrane and Smith will be superseded by wing backs that can defend but are more proficient at attacking.

 

We’ll also have a better main focus point as striker next season - and that is not to slag Boyce, but we will. 

 

Souttar looks majestic going forward. 

[5-1Jambo]

1 hour ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

It's basic stuff Tbh. 

Almost every manager, if not every manager will start with that in mind. 

 

It's not a Robbie or Hearts thing. 

It's just practical. 

 

I played/coached rugby for more than 30 years and same rules apply to most team sports. 

[5-1Jambo]

6 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Souttar looks majestic going forward. 

Agreed. I think after the next 2 or 3 windows I think we will be truly feared rather than sarcastically praised by the OF. 

League title in 3 years champions league group stages in 5. 

Yes I am having a beer. 

[GinRummy]

Just now, 5-1Jambo said:

Agreed. I think after the next 2 or 3 windows I think we will be truly feared rather than sarcastically praised by the OF. 

League title in 3 years champions league group stages in 5. 

Yes I am having a beer. 

We are a club with absolutely huge potential. That’s not overplaying it. A Hearts side winning trophies regularly could put the old firm and all the other low level shite that inhabit our jaded game on the back foot. Why don’t people believe that? Only because it hasn’t happened in their lifetime. 
 

Having a couple myself. It’s Tuesday after all.