Scottish Parliament Elections tactical voting guide

[Konrad von Carstein]

28 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

LOL

it still doesnt mean to say its ok just because everyone has a " bit of racism" in them ? 

Agreed.  The vote should only be for those born in Scotland and still living here now. Not in England or anywhere else. No transient students , etc.  Its a more complex regarding people who have moved here from the EU. I would assume that they intend to stay here permanently therefore should be entitled to a vote as it will impact on their future and their family.  But how would the Govt be able to  prove that these people would want to stay here permanently ? 

Agreed 

all about " inclusive" as long as you vote for them 

So you want immigrants who, say, have naturalized citizenship of the current UK are to be denied a vote despite them being committed to living and working here and therefore contributing to our society?

 

Blood and soil James eh?

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

 

Your lack of self awareness is hilarious!

 

I normally enjoy your swimming against the flow schtick...but you have been a poor parody of yourself these last couple of days.

lol

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

So you want immigrants who, say, have naturalized citizenship of the current UK are to be denied a vote despite them being committed to living and working here and therefore contributing to our society?

 

Blood and soil James eh?

NO i mean people who come from the EU who may or may not want to stay here . However thats redundent now due to Brexit as i assume all the current EU citizens in Scotland probably wish to remain here so they deserve to have a vote.  

[i8hibsh]

8 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

So you want immigrants who, say, have naturalized citizenship of the current UK are to be denied a vote despite them being committed to living and working here and therefore contributing to our society?

 

Blood and soil James eh?

 

In the interests of fairness, can you list some of the countries these immigrants you mention are from and we can research what (if any) reciprocations would be had if the situation was reversed?

 

 

[Konrad von Carstein]

12 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

In the interests of fairness, can you list some of the countries these immigrants you mention are from and we can research what (if any) reciprocations would be had if the situation was reversed?

 

 

Recipricocity, is going off on a tangent, as you well know.

 

I am talking non Scots born immigrants who have made the commitment to become UK (as is) citizens being allowed to vote here.

 

My Mrs spent a fair whack of £ as part of her route to become a UK citizen and underwent a test, that many UK born people would struggle with.

 

She is on the electoral roll for elections so why not a referendum?

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

Recipricocity, is going off on a tangent, as you well know.

 

I am talking non Scots born immigrants who have made the commitment to become UK (as is) citizens being allowed to vote here.

 

My Mrs spent a fair whack of £ as part of her route to become a UK citizen and underwent a test, that many UK born people would struggle with.

 

She is on the electoral roll for elections so why not a referendum?

She should be . 

[i8hibsh]

1 minute ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

Recipricocity, is going off on a tangent, as you well know.

 

I am talking non Scots born immigrants who have made the commitment to become UK (as is) citizens being allowed to vote here.

 

My Mrs spent a fair whack of £ as part of her route to become a UK citizen and underwent a test, that many UK born people would struggle with.

 

She is on the electoral roll for elections so why not a referendum?

 

 

What country is she from if you don't mind me asking?

[JudyJudyJudy]

My postal ballot just arrived by post.  Jezz there are a wide variety of parties / groups in Scotland it seems. Anyway ive ticked the boxes sealed the envelope and thats it

[Konrad von Carstein]

Just now, i8hibsh said:

 

 

What country is she from if you don't mind me asking?

No problem, Poland.

[i8hibsh]

My main issue with all this is that we bend over backwards and jump through all available hoops to furnish people with benefits, rights and privileges that we simply would never see if we moved to their country.  Now if people wish to argue this I will ask them to please tell me what is fair about this?

 

 

[i8hibsh]

A quick google shows me that in Poland, only Polish citizens can be eligible to vote.  I dig this and would welcome that here. 

[i8hibsh]

There is no easy criteria to define eligibility but:

 

Giving foreign students the vote is laughable

Giving non citizens the vote is laughable

Not giving the vote to our sportsmen and women who represent us just becasue the temporarily live outside the country is laughable

Edited April 15, 2021 by i8hibsh

[JudyJudyJudy]

5 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

There is no easy criteria to define eligibility but:

 

Giving foreign students the vote is laughable

Giving non citizens the vote is laughable

Not giving the vote to our sportsmen and women who represent us just becasue the temporarily live outside the country is laughable

Be careful with the last one as Andy Murray is an Indy supporter  as well as being miserable as sin...however i like him...

 

[i8hibsh]

Just now, JamesM48 said:

Be careful with the last one as Andy Murray is an Indy supporter  as well as being miserable as sin...however i like him...

 

 

 

Yeah I don't mind Andy or his mum infact, I know she gets a bit of abuse.

[Jeffros Furios]

47 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

So you want immigrants who, say, have naturalized citizenship of the current UK are to be denied a vote despite them being committed to living and working here and therefore contributing to our society?

 

Blood and soil James eh?

Blood and soil   ? Ffs Thats a bit extreme .

[Konrad von Carstein]

1 minute ago, i8hibsh said:

A quick google shows me that in Poland, only Polish citizens can be eligible to vote.  I dig this and would welcome that here. 

Natural born or naturalized?

Not that I care that much...I would probably not vote if I lived there citizen or not...

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

8 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Yeah I don't mind Andy or his mum infact, I know she gets a bit of abuse.

I like them both. 

[Konrad von Carstein]

7 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

Blood and soil   ? Ffs Thats a bit extreme .

Wasn't being entirely serious Jeffros, my humour doesn't play well in text clearly

[ri Alban]

If it comes down to Scots born only. It's a landslide for independence. Just like the last time. But hey no EU citizens this time. 200, 000 votes gone from 387000 difference in votes. Just the 700,000 rUK votes from last time to help you get close. 

 

Real Scots vote yes. 

[Gizmo]

19 hours ago, i8hibsh said:

How anyone can say they are a proud Scot or nationalist but comes out with pish like the SNP spout are a disgrace.

 

Sturgeon sees everyone living in the country as Scottish.  She sees us being diluted as a good thing.

 

How ironic a woman she is.

You didn't actually come out with a literal Nazi line, did you? Jezus. 
 

2 hours ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Do you mean us all 'being Scottish' GT?

 

Getting by the probability that they themsleves wont class themselves as Scottish this is dangerous territory.  To give these people (those who live in Scotland but have zero blood or connections to Scotland) the same recognition as 'bona fide' Scots we are furnishing them with all the privileges we deserve but they simply do not.

 

I don't mean they get treated like second class citizens, of course not,  they should be treated with all human rights and freedoms we are (or at least were) fortunate to have.  However, they should not receive any form of financial benefits they have not earned, they should not queue jump under any circumstances, their cultural values, ideologies and beliefs get left at the door.  This is our country, like it or **** off.

 

This is pretty standard in most coutnries (almost certainly the countries they come from) so not sure anyone would take issue with this.

 

I am sick of adapting to please others, we owe them nothing, they owe us.  It is their privilege, not ours.

 

And people will take exception to this but our government should prioritise those born here before someone who has just arrived and who will leave after their stuidies are over etc.  Life seems to be one big one way street to many. 

 

 

 

 

 

What are these, presumably, thousands of adaptations you are having to constantly make that are "sickening you". And yeah, many will and do absolutely take issue with your concept that people who move to another country are meant to immediately stop being their authentic selves and assimilate entirely to the prevailing culture. How do you think culture exists, at all, but for ideas, concepts, arts, philosophies and different viewpoints being pulled into the mix from all different people, different nationalities, different movements? Why do you think we have latin, French, Spanish, Hindi, Chinese, Japanese, Polynesian, Arabic, Greek, Russian and German words in common use in the English language? 

 

[Governor Tarkin]

27 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

Blood and soil   ? Ffs Thats a bit extreme .

 

Blut und boden.

 

47 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

 

My Mrs spent a fair whack of £ as part of her route to become a UK citizen and underwent a test, that many UK born people would struggle with.

 

She is on the electoral roll for elections so why not a referendum?

 

She should be. 

 

18 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

Wasn't being entirely serious Jeffros, my humour doesn't play well in text clearly

 

Damn

[Governor Tarkin]

9 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

How do you think culture exists, at all, but for ideas, concepts, arts, philosophies and different viewpoints being pulled into the mix from all different people, different nationalities, different movements? Why do you think we have latin, French, Spanish, Hindi, Chinese, Japanese, Polynesian, Arabic, Greek, Russian and German words in common use in the English language? 

 

 

Pie all that. 

 

We need more Nazi lines imo. 

[i8hibsh]

7 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

 

What are these, presumably, thousands of adaptations you are having to constantly make that are "sickening you". And yeah, many will and do absolutely take issue with your concept that people who move to another country are meant to immediately stop being their authentic selves and assimilate entirely to the prevailing culture. How do you think culture exists, at all, but for ideas, concepts, arts, philosophies and different viewpoints being pulled into the mix from all different people, different nationalities, different movements? Why do you think we have latin, French, Spanish, Hindi, Chinese, Japanese, Polynesian, Arabic, Greek, Russian and German words in common use in the English language? 

 

 

 

I have never read such romantic codzwallop.  What you say sounds great in theory but this is not where we are at.  We are being diluted, this is now past the stage of harmony and diversified culture etc which I fully support.

 

Have a look at the birth rates for Scottish/UK born mothers v non Scottish/non UK born mothers.  It is currently something like close to 50/50.  In the next 50 years it will be 20/80 in favour of non Scottish/non UK born mothers.  This to me is past the 'nice' stage of mutli culturalism etc (again, something I fully embrace) this is dilution.  These kids are not being called Sandy, Angus or Elizabeth.  They are being called Pawel and Mohamed.  Infact Mohamed in it's various spellings was the most popular baby boys name in the UK last year.

 

Now you can start shaking your wrists at me and call me whatever makes you feel better but this is the real situation of immigration in the UK in 2021.

 

As I always say, immigration is a great thing, mass immigration is not.

[dobmisterdobster]

I have kids with a Hungarian woman. They will grow up being British/English/Scottish whatever.

 

Ever heard of assimilation?

[kila]

I agree that foreign students shouldn't get a vote in an independence referendum. It'd be ridiculous if I were a student in another country and was able to vote on independence despite the fact I was only resided there temporarily for educational means. And even those who are expats on short term work shouldn't be eligible. 

 

It isn't easy to cherry pick eligibility though. But I think living in the country for 5 years minimum should be required for it.

 

And Scots who have left the country to live elsewhere shouldn't get to vote if they haven't resided for a number of years - there has to be a cutoff somewhere. Those who have clearly turned their back on Scotland (living away for decades) should most definitely have no say in Scotland's future, especially given those people would probably be eligible (or should be) for votes in the country they decided to move to.

 

[i8hibsh]

2 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said:

I have kids with a Hungarian woman. They will grow up being British/English/Scottish whatever.

 

Ever heard of assimilation?

 

Yes and I love it.  Many people do not assimilate though, hence my dilution comment.

 

This is a vary risky subject but it really should not be.  It simply must be talked about.

 

I know it will not be easy for some due to bigotry, immaturity and reasonability but it is a big issue.

[i8hibsh]

4 minutes ago, kila said:

I agree that foreign students shouldn't get a vote in an independence referendum. It'd be ridiculous if I were a student in another country and was able to vote on independence despite the fact I was only resided there temporarily for educational means. And even those who are expats on short term work shouldn't be eligible. 

 

It isn't easy to cherry pick eligibility though. But I think living in the country for 5 years minimum should be required for it.

 

And Scots who have left the country to live elsewhere shouldn't get to vote if they haven't resided for a number of years - there has to be a cutoff somewhere. Those who have clearly turned their back on Scotland (living away for decades) should most definitely have no say in Scotland's future, especially given those people would probably be eligible (or should be) for votes in the country they decided to move to.

 

 

 

Yes, that would be an ideal compromise.

[Gizmo]

6 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

I have never read such romantic codzwallop.  What you say sounds great in theory but this is not where we are at.  We are being diluted, this is now past the stage of harmony and diversified culture etc which I fully support.

 

Have a look at the birth rates for Scottish/UK born mothers v non Scottish/non UK born mothers.  It is currently something like close to 50/50.  In the next 50 years it will be 20/80 in favour of non Scottish/non UK born mothers.  This to me is past the 'nice' stage of mutli culturalism etc (again, something I fully embrace) this is dilution.  These kids are not being called Sandy, Angus or Elizabeth.  They are being called Pawel and Mohamed.  Infact Mohamed in it's various spellings was the most popular baby boys name in the UK last year.

 

Now you can start shaking your wrists at me and call me whatever makes you feel better but this is the real situation of immigration in the UK in 2021.

 

As I always say, immigration is a great thing, mass immigration is not.

Doubling down eh? Didn't expect anything less. There's **** all "romanticised" about my pointing out to you that culture does remain isolated from the rest of the world, free of influence or ideas. 

16% of Scotland is non native Scots. Only 4% are non-white. What does it matter - aren't we all people on one sodding planet anyway living in a global economy with cheap flights to almost every part of the globe. Culture changes, adapts, grows - this idea you have that it is a precious thing that should be rigidly protected is bonkers.   

No idea where you get your stats from regarding demographics - I highly doubt them, but I assume you want your pension paid - so unless you fancy going round all the Scots families and convincing them to start pumping out babies into the world - not necessarily the best idea with exponential population growth, climate change and the current situation with the pandemic, then we need net immigration into Scotland. 

About the only thing you got right in your post - culture and civilizations historically do not survive if the prevailing birth rate drops below 2.1 children per mother/family. 

[i8hibsh]

6 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

Doubling down eh? Didn't expect anything less. There's **** all "romanticised" about my pointing out to you that culture does remain isolated from the rest of the world, free of influence or ideas. 

16% of Scotland is non native Scots. Only 4% are non-white. What does it matter - aren't we all people on one sodding planet anyway living in a global economy with cheap flights to almost every part of the globe. Culture changes, adapts, grows - this idea you have that it is a precious thing that should be rigidly protected is bonkers.   

No idea where you get your stats from regarding demographics - I highly doubt them, but I assume you want your pension paid - so unless you fancy going round all the Scots families and convincing them to start pumping out babies into the world - not necessarily the best idea with exponential population growth, climate change and the current situation with the pandemic, then we need net immigration into Scotland. 

About the only thing you got right in your post - culture and civilizations historically do not survive if the prevailing birth rate drops below 2.1 children per mother/family. 

 

 

The idea of mixing cultures is a great one, I truly truly feel that.

 

However, our culture and our way of life are non negiotable.  That should be the rules.

 

We are alreay being policed in ways we should not and we have a justice secretary and a leader of the Labour party who both stood before our parliament and aggressively told us there are 'too many whites' in top jobs even though as you correctly pointed out 9.6/10 people in this country are indeed white.

 

This is the shit that boils my piss.  I can sit and name many great things about diversity but to me they are being eclipsed now by the not so good parts of it.

Edited April 15, 2021 by i8hibsh

[XB52]

I honestly can't believe that spouting Nazi ideals does not lead to a ban. I've given up talking to that person as I would probably end up banned instead but he really does come out with utterly horrendous stuff. 

[Jeffros Furios]

1 hour ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

Wasn't being entirely serious Jeffros, my humour doesn't play well in text clearly

Sorry fella .

[Konrad von Carstein]

1 hour ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Blut und boden.

 

 

She should be. 

 

 

Damn

[pablo]

This is what happens when stupid things are said by people who should know better. Sturgeon's comment yesterday was measured and she knew exactly what she was doing. It's why Nationalism is a very dangerous thing to play about with. 

[i8hibsh]

1 minute ago, pablo said:

This is what happens when stupid things are said by people who should know better. Sturgeon's comment yesterday was measured and she knew exactly what she was doing. It's why Nationalism is a very dangerous thing to play about with. 

 

Almost every country on the planet has a nationalist government and all the great leaders throughout history were nationalists.

 

Nationalism is more natural to the human race than globalism.  This is proven.

[pablo]

2 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

Almost every country on the planet has a nationalist government and all the great leaders throughout history were nationalists.

 

Nationalism is more natural to the human race than globalism.  This is proven.

 

Nationalism is outdated and a dangerous ideology that won't further mankind. If our future threats are pandemics and environmental catastrophe, I suggest we embrace Globalism sharpish. Neither of those enemies respect borders or flags.

[i8hibsh]

1 minute ago, pablo said:

 

Nationalism is outdated and a dangerous ideology that won't further mankind. If our future threats are pandemics and environmental catastrophe, I suggest we embrace Globalism sharpish. Neither of those enemies respect borders or flags.

 

 

Each to their own, thus being the beauty of democracy.

 

 

[i8hibsh]

I've enjoyed this debate, at least from the ones who actually post contributive ideas and not just hurl insults.

 

Been ages since I genuienly enjoyed a JKB topic in the shed.

Edited April 15, 2021 by i8hibsh

[Governor Tarkin]

1 hour ago, kila said:

I agree that foreign students shouldn't get a vote in an independence referendum. It'd be ridiculous if I were a student in another country and was able to vote on independence despite the fact I was only resided there temporarily for educational means. And even those who are expats on short term work shouldn't be eligible. 

 

It isn't easy to cherry pick eligibility though. But I think living in the country for 5 years minimum should be required for it.

 

And Scots who have left the country to live elsewhere shouldn't get to vote if they haven't resided for a number of years - there has to be a cutoff somewhere. Those who have clearly turned their back on Scotland (living away for decades) should most definitely have no say in Scotland's future, especially given those people would probably be eligible (or should be) for votes in the country they decided to move to.

 

 

Excellent post. 

This would be a good starting point for any serious debate. 

[i8hibsh]

Just now, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Excellent post. 

This would be a good starting point for any serious debate. 

 

 

 

 

Sadly, this is one topic we will never get too much serious debate on.

[Governor Tarkin]

48 minutes ago, XB52 said:

I honestly can't believe that spouting Nazi ideals does not lead to a ban. I've given up talking to that person as I would probably end up banned instead but he really does come out with utterly horrendous stuff. 

 

Why should it. His views aren't so controversial in many parts of the world, and it's not as if he's advocating genocide or such like. 

 

Much better to get this stuff out in the open and let it be discredited, like Gizmo and pablo have managed without breaking their stride. 

[Governor Tarkin]

1 minute ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

 

 

Sadly, this is one topic we will never get too much serious debate on.

 

I dunno i8, you're getting every opportunity to make your points. Most folk are being pretty civil with their rebuttals too. 👍

[i8hibsh]

4 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

I dunno i8, you're getting every opportunity to make your points. Most folk are being pretty civil with their rebuttals too. 👍

 

 

I mean more in parliament and more serious platforms than here.  

 

Yes though, most folk been non combative on here for once.  Well, except the usual suspects.

Edited April 15, 2021 by i8hibsh

[Governor Tarkin]

1 hour ago, Gizmo said:

About the only thing you got right in your post - culture and civilizations historically do not survive if the prevailing birth rate drops below 2.1 children per mother/family. 

 

You hear that, i8? 

Better get your dancing shoes on and limber up those snake hips. 

[ri Alban]

32 minutes ago, pablo said:

This is what happens when stupid things are said by people who should know better. Sturgeon's comment yesterday was measured and she knew exactly what she was doing. It's why Nationalism is a very dangerous thing to play about with. 

What did she say? Missed it again. 

[ri Alban]

16 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Why should it. His views aren't so controversial in many parts of the world, and it's not as if he's advocating genocide or such like. 

 

Much better to get this stuff out in the open and let it be discredited, like Gizmo and pablo have managed without breaking their stride. 

Can I get a game? 

[redjambo]

16 hours ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Says who? Many will leave and many Scots abroad will move back.

 

And many Scots who are here now will emigrate. That's no argument at all.

 

If you live here, you get the vote. It's the fairest, and least xenophobic , way to do it.

[Governor Tarkin]

We need more xenophobic ways to do it imo. 

[redjambo]

2 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

My postal ballot just arrived by post.  Jezz there are a wide variety of parties / groups in Scotland it seems. Anyway ive ticked the boxes sealed the envelope and thats it

 

Just a helpful hint that you also have to pop the envelope in the post.

[i8hibsh]

8 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

And many Scots who are here now will emigrate. That's no argument at all.

 

If you live here, you get the vote. It's the fairest, and least xenophobic , way to do it.

 

Not wanting to include all nationalities just because they are doing an HND in napkinfolding or once drank in the Red Lion is not xenophobic.  Foreigners in this instance have no relevance; it is our issue and no one else.

 

I would also certainly stretch my blanket to those who are not Scottish born but have become subsequent citizens.  I would also compromise and say it is also open to all natural Scots who within a 5 or so year period had lived in Scotland (these are not long term migrators).

 

The SNP are obsessed with not offending minorities (even to the detriment of our own people) so natural/non natural Scots eligibility will not be discussed with them and it should.

Edited April 15, 2021 by i8hibsh

[i8hibsh]

The idea that we are giving a voting opportunity to people who are perhaps not even eligible to vote in their own countries is ridiculous.