Scottish Parliament Elections tactical voting guide

[Gizmo]

 

3 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Step 3. Disengage completely from the glorified student union that is Scottish politics and look to WM for the important decisions

Their handling of the pandemic really inspires, who cares about the 120K dead due to their capability to make important decisions. Probably all feckless and lazy anyway. 

 

2 hours ago, sadj said:

I have the solution people 

New ideas = the same tired old right wing fundy crap.

They'll almost make the tories look respectable with this disgusting guff. 

[sadj]

2 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

 

Their handling of the pandemic really inspires, who cares about the 120K dead due to their capability to make important decisions. Probably all feckless and lazy anyway. 

 

New ideas = the same tired old right wing fundy crap.

They'll almost make the tories look respectable with this disgusting guff. 

Some of it genuinely made me stop and think naaaah surely this cant be real... oppose hate speak legislation , oppose transgender ideology , stop vulgar and corrupting sex ed.... 😣

[Shanks said no]

1 hour ago, manaliveits105 said:

Mon the ATSPP 

Have to say I agree completely with the description of a glorified council. Unsure if that means they get my vote.

[Gizmo]

1 hour ago, manaliveits105 said:

Mon the ATSPP 

A gammon tantrum in leaflet form. Delicious. 

[Gizmo]

2 minutes ago, sadj said:

Some of it genuinely made me stop and think naaaah surely this cant be real... oppose hate speak legislation , oppose transgender ideology , stop vulgar and corrupting sex ed.... 😣

The irony is that good sex education and family planning clinics reduce the abortion rate. Same as legalising drugs reduces over-doses and drug offenses. 

I'm just disappointed the leaflet had nothing on the earth being 4000 years old and something about dinosaurs, for the full fundy bingo card.

Edited April 7, 2021 by Gizmo

[Victorian]

The Tory party political broadcast contains zero policy content.  It's just 'stop the SNP'.    What a cringe.  

[sadj]

3 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

The irony is that good sex education and family planning clinics reduce the abortion rate. Same as legalising drugs reduces over-doses and drug offenses. 

I'm just disappointed the leaflet had nothing on the earth being 4000 years old and something about dinosaurs, for the full fundy bingo card.

Well worth a read of their twitter🙈 , leader of the party is a guy called Richard Lucas

 

 

[buzz]

1 minute ago, Victorian said:

The Tory party political broadcast contains zero policy content.  It's just 'stop the SNP'.    What a cringe.  

Just watched that. What an absolute embarrassment of a broadcast!

[sadj]

2 minutes ago, Victorian said:

The Tory party political broadcast contains zero policy content.  It's just 'stop the SNP'.    What a cringe.  

Its horrendous isnt it. Every leaflet weve had from them is just “stop the snp” and labour aren’t fit.... Thing is my local msp is Tory and hes very very good at dealing with his constituents. 

[Victorian]

The last Tory election aim was 'we want to be the opposition'.  This one is 'stop the SNP'.  It just shows how politics has boiled down to a base level,  crude,  detail vacuum.

[XB52]

12 minutes ago, Victorian said:

The Tory party political broadcast contains zero policy content.  It's just 'stop the SNP'.    What a cringe.  

It was hilarious. Fronted by the latest unelected ermine robed lady then backed up by the latest leader of the North British branch office. Not one single idea on what they would do in power(don't laugh) , just stop snp. Nicola will be shaking in her high heels

[manaliveits105]

I know imagine a party having no policies and constantly focussing on another party’s faults it would never happen with the Krankies

[JackLadd]

1 hour ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

 

What are you on about?

 

You said 16yo can vote if they can prove 1 year of tax receipts...IMO you cannot set requirements to only one section of an electorate.

 

No one mentioned the legal drinking age except you, in the post above, which is making me think you've been on the peeve this afternoon...as it had feck all to do with what was being discussed!

 

 

No one mentioned 16 y/o's in the army except you (which they need parental consent for and can't be posted to a frontline unit until aged 18) Maybe the SNP's iScotland army will have under 18 squaddies marching about? No? Can vote, get married, but no drink or live rounds? The hypocrisy of the SNP and their brainwashed supporters laid bare again.

[Enzo Chiefo]

47 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

 

Their handling of the pandemic really inspires, who cares about the 120K dead due to their capability to make important decisions. Probably all feckless and lazy anyway. 

 

New ideas = the same tired old right wing fundy crap.

They'll almost make the tories look respectable with this disgusting guff. 

What exactly have your beloved Nats done better in handling Covid? Same rate of deaths, the criminal policy of decanting positive Covid patients into care homes causing hundreds of deaths, covered up outbreak at the Nike conference,  CMO who breached her own rules,  ****ed up the school exam results, flawed tiers system that they still haven't learnt from. Granted, on talking to the population as if they are 5 years old and rolling her eyes at press questions she doesn't like, Wee Burney beats Boris hands down. Other than that, there are no differences in outcomes. He sets a roadmap, she follows. He locks down, she follows. Lateral tests for all, she follows.

[Konrad von Carstein]

14 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

 

No one mentioned 16 y/o's in the army except you (which they need parental consent for and can't be posted to a frontline unit until aged 18) Maybe the SNP's iScotland army will have under 18 squaddies marching about? No? Can vote, get married, but no drink or live rounds? The hypocrisy of the SNP and their brainwashed supporters laid bare again.

I mentioned some if the things 16 yo are able to do...and paying tax and NIC is one if them ,  why you want to restrict thier voting rights is beyond me.

The irony of you, of all posters yakking about hypocrisy though

[XB52]

22 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

What exactly have your beloved Nats done better in handling Covid? Same rate of deaths, the criminal policy of decanting positive Covid patients into care homes causing hundreds of deaths, covered up outbreak at the Nike conference,  CMO who breached her own rules,  ****ed up the school exam results, flawed tiers system that they still haven't learnt from. Granted, on talking to the population as if they are 5 years old and rolling her eyes at press questions she doesn't like, Wee Burney beats Boris hands down. Other than that, there are no differences in outcomes. He sets a roadmap, she follows. He locks down, she follows. Lateral tests for all, she follows.

Death rate in England is 40% higher than Scotland

[Konrad von Carstein]

30 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

What exactly have your beloved Nats done better in handling Covid? Same rate of deaths, the criminal policy of decanting positive Covid patients into care homes causing hundreds of deaths, covered up outbreak at the Nike conference,  CMO who breached her own rules,  ****ed up the school exam results, flawed tiers system that they still haven't learnt from. Granted, on talking to the population as if they are 5 years old and rolling her eyes at press questions she doesn't like, Wee Burney beats Boris hands down. Other than that, there are no differences in outcomes. He sets a roadmap, she follows. He locks down, she follows. Lateral tests for all, she follows.

So much whatabootery opportunities...Ill pass though.

The biggest single thing that hamstrung the Scottish gov,  is not having full control of our borders...

[Gizmo]

57 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

What exactly have your beloved Nats done better in handling Covid? Same rate of deaths, the criminal policy of decanting positive Covid patients into care homes causing hundreds of deaths, covered up outbreak at the Nike conference,  CMO who breached her own rules,  ****ed up the school exam results, flawed tiers system that they still haven't learnt from. Granted, on talking to the population as if they are 5 years old and rolling her eyes at press questions she doesn't like, Wee Burney beats Boris hands down. Other than that, there are no differences in outcomes. He sets a roadmap, she follows. He locks down, she follows. Lateral tests for all, she follows.

Thanks for making the case for independence better than I could. 

[JackLadd]

47 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

I mentioned some if the things 16 yo are able to do...and paying tax and NIC is one if them ,  why you want to restrict thier voting rights is beyond me.

The irony of you, of all posters yakking about hypocrisy though

 

They should have no voting rights until 18 just like the vast majority of other countries. You and the SNP are the hypocrites for using and abusing this age group for political gain while refusing to also lower the drinking age to 16. Can trust them to elect SNP clowns and potentially destroy the country but not have a drink. 

[Konrad von Carstein]

13 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

They should have no voting rights until 18 just like the vast majority of other countries. You and the SNP are the hypocrites for using and abusing this age group for political gain while refusing to also lower the drinking age to 16. Can trust them to elect SNP clowns and potentially destroy the country but not have a drink. 

What is it with you and drink? Jakeball!

 

Scotland is not alone worldwide in lowering  the voting age to 16.

Edited April 7, 2021 by Konrad von Carstein

[JackLadd]

1 minute ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

What is it with you and drink? Jakeball!

 

So all you have left is insults to defend the shameless SNP's use of child voters.  Typical cyber nat.

[Gizmo]

1 minute ago, JackLadd said:

 

So all you have left is insults to defend the shameless SNP's use of child voters.  Typical cyber nat.

This has to be a parody account. 

[Konrad von Carstein]

5 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

So all you have left is insults to defend the shameless SNP's use of child voters.  Typical cyber nat.

 

Utterly shameless!

 

16 yo voting is on the rise world wide you two faced hypocrite...

[redjambo]

3 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

So all you have left is insults to defend the shameless SNP's use of child voters.  Typical cyber nat.

 

You do realise that the bill that lowered the age of voting in Scottish parliament and local elections to 16 in Scotland was unanimously passed in the Scottish parliament?

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-33173488

 

Conservative MSP Annabel Goldie told MSPs that the bill was an important moment for young people and democracy: "This bill heralds an exciting era for our young people," she said.

 

Labour's Lewis Macdonald said: "In passing this bill we should celebrate the democratic participation of all our citizens, the 100,000 or so 16 and 17-year-olds, the million over-65s and everyone in between. We are extending the franchise precisely because we know from experience that democracy works."

 

Scottish Liberal Democrat leader Willie Rennie said: "The ball is now in the court of Scotland's 16 and 17-year-olds to demand a fairer deal from all of Scotland's political parties. The right to vote comes with a responsibility to take part in our democratic debate. From cuts to college places to the crisis facing our hospitals, there are many issues which will benefit from the voice and power of 16 and 17-year-olds."

[Konrad von Carstein]

1 minute ago, redjambo said:

 

You do realise that the bill that lowered the age of voting in Scottish parliament and local elections to 16 in Scotland was unanimously passed in the Scottish parliament?

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-33173488

 

Conservative MSP Annabel Goldie told MSPs that the bill was an important moment for young people and democracy: "This bill heralds an exciting era for our young people," she said.

 

Labour's Lewis Macdonald said: "In passing this bill we should celebrate the democratic participation of all our citizens, the 100,000 or so 16 and 17-year-olds, the million over-65s and everyone in between. We are extending the franchise precisely because we know from experience that democracy works."

 

Scottish Liberal Democrat leader Willie Rennie said: "The ball is now in the court of Scotland's 16 and 17-year-olds to demand a fairer deal from all of Scotland's political parties. The right to vote comes with a responsibility to take part in our democratic debate. From cuts to college places to the crisis facing our hospitals, there are many issues which will benefit from the voice and power of 16 and 17-year-olds."

Ooops!

[JackLadd]

Just now, Konrad von Carstein said:

 

Utterly shameless!

 

16 yo voting is on the rise world wide you two faced hypocrite...

 

Not really son. You are only keen because it means more votes for your craven SNP which makes you shameless and a hypocrite. 

[Konrad von Carstein]

2 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

Not really son. You are only keen because it means more votes for your craven SNP which makes you shameless and a hypocrite. 

 

Haven't read Red's post above then?

 

Edited April 7, 2021 by Konrad von Carstein

[JackLadd]

2 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

You do realise that the bill that lowered the age of voting in Scottish parliament and local elections to 16 in Scotland was unanimously passed in the Scottish parliament?

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-33173488

 

Conservative MSP Annabel Goldie told MSPs that the bill was an important moment for young people and democracy: "This bill heralds an exciting era for our young people," she said.

 

Labour's Lewis Macdonald said: "In passing this bill we should celebrate the democratic participation of all our citizens, the 100,000 or so 16 and 17-year-olds, the million over-65s and everyone in between. We are extending the franchise precisely because we know from experience that democracy works."

 

Scottish Liberal Democrat leader Willie Rennie said: "The ball is now in the court of Scotland's 16 and 17-year-olds to demand a fairer deal from all of Scotland's political parties. The right to vote comes with a responsibility to take part in our democratic debate. From cuts to college places to the crisis facing our hospitals, there are many issues which will benefit from the voice and power of 16 and 17-year-olds."

 

The SNP drove it and the rest were forced to tag along.

[Konrad von Carstein]

1 minute ago, JackLadd said:

 

The SNP drove it and the rest were forced to tag along.

 

Oh dear...give it up you are embarrasing yourself....

[JackLadd]

Just now, Konrad von Carstein said:

 

Oh dear...give it up you are embarrasing yourself....

 

That post wasn't directed at you but you chose to reply again, embarrassing.

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 hour ago, XB52 said:

Death rate in England is 40% higher than Scotland

No it's not

[Konrad von Carstein]

1 minute ago, JackLadd said:

 

That post wasn't directed at you but you chose to reply again, embarrassing.

 

 

 

[redjambo]

2 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

The SNP drove it and the rest were forced to tag along.

 

Oh really? That's right because all the other parties just love being told to do by the SNP and raise nary a whimper against its policies or actions.

 

Come on, man. If you're going to argue on policies, by all means do so. The more the merrier! But coming out with rubbish like this is only going to count against any other arguments you might have.

 

You personally may be against the granting of votes to 16 and 17 year olds but there was a groundswell of opinion, both in the population at large and within the Scottish parliament, to making the move. And if you can tell me how David Cameron, for example, was "forced" to devolve to the Scottish parliament the ability to lower the voting age, you win yourself a coconut.

[redjambo]

7 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

No it's not

 

I can't find the full post you refer to, or the context, but if you're talking about Covid, then as of today's stats, England has a total confirmed Covid deaths per 1m population rate of 1,980.

 

Scotland's figure is 1,390.

 

1980/1390 = 1.42, so that's England with a death rate 42% more than Scotland.

 

Stats taken from https://www.travellingtabby.com/uk-coronavirus-tracker/deaths

[JackLadd]

1 minute ago, redjambo said:

 

Oh really? That's right because all the other parties just love being told to do by the SNP and raise nary a whimper against its policies or actions.

 

Come on, man. If you're going to argue on policies, by all means do so. The more the merrier! But coming out with rubbish like this is only going to count against any other arguments you might have.

 

You personally may be against the granting of votes to 16 and 17 year olds but there was a groundswell of opinion, both in the population at large and within the Scottish parliament, to making the move. And if you can tell me how David Cameron, for example, was "forced" to devolve to the Scottish parliament the ability to lower the voting age, you win yourself a coconut.

 

I direct you to my previous post on this matter. It was a wholly self serving move by the militant SNP and their use of progressive language blind sided any opposition. Couldn't care less what Cameron devolved. Only good thing he ever did was allow a vote on the EU. 

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, JackLadd said:

 

I direct you to my previous post on this matter. It was a wholly self serving move by the militant SNP and their use of progressive language blind sided any opposition. Couldn't care less what Cameron devolved. Only good thing he ever did was allow a vote on the EU. 

 

I remind you again that the vote in the Scottish parliament was unanimous. Are you genuinely saying that Cameron and then every other MSP from the other parties in Holyrood were somehow hoodwinked into giving 16 and 17 year olds the vote? Really?

 

If you actually believe that, and it isn't part of some dogma you have or is an effort at trolling, I would humbly but genuinely suggest that you take a step back and have a look at what you're writing here and ask yourself whether or not it is grounded in rational thought.

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 minute ago, redjambo said:

 

I can't find the full post you refer to, or the context, but if you're talking about Covid, then as of today's stats, England has a total confirmed Covid deaths per 1m population rate of 1,980.

 

Scotland's figure is 1,390.

 

1980/1390 = 1.42, so that's England with a death rate 42% more than Scotland.

 

Stats taken from https://www.travellingtabby.com/uk-coronavirus-tracker/deaths

So you're using the 7k figure, whereas I'm basing the figures on the 10k+ deaths that are quoted daily. Sturgeon always cast doubt on why care home deaths in England were lower, "why would they be?". Likewise the deaths, both govts have changed the way they are calculated during the course of this. I can't see why there would be any difference whatsoever. England has far more cities and a far higher population density, but other than that. Do we know if deaths are calculated in exactly the same way now?

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

So you're using the 7k figure, whereas I'm basing the figures on the 10k+ deaths that are quoted daily. Sturgeon always cast doubt on why care home deaths in England were lower, "why would they be?". Likewise the deaths, both govts have changed the way they are calculated during the course of this. I can't see why there would be any difference whatsoever. England has far more cities and a far higher population density, but other than that. Do we know if deaths are calculated in exactly the same way now?

 

Here are the three alternative ways of calculating the deaths:

 

 

Under the first measure, as already mentioned, England has had 42% more deaths. Under the second, the figure is 25%, and under the third it is 26%. The original poster was well within their rights to select the first means of measurement, the confirmed deaths figure. In any way, whether 25% or 40%, that is a significant difference between the nations. I'm not sure why that difference exists, to be honest, but it's there.

 

I would hope and suspect that at some point these differences between the nations and also the different measuring techniques will be analysed in excruciating detail in order to determine how they arose. I look forward to the results.

[Enzo Chiefo]

7 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Here are the three alternative ways of calculating the deaths:

 

 

Under the first measure, as already mentioned, England has had 42% more deaths. Under the second, the figure is 25%, and under the third it is 26%. The original poster was well within their rights to select the first means of measurement, the confirmed deaths figure. In any way, whether 25% or 40%, that is a significant difference between the nations. I'm not sure why that difference exists, to be honest, but it's there.

 

I would hope and suspect that at some point these differences between the nations and also the different measuring techniques will be analysed in excruciating detail in order to determine how they arose. I look forward to the results.

Thanks for confirming in such detail, Red.👍 You're normally on day shift with stats so I hope you claim o/t for this 😂

[Enzo Chiefo]

2 hours ago, XB52 said:

Death rate in England is 40% higher than Scotland

I stand corrected after my previous comments on the death rates, XB. I don't think there has been much difference in the handling of the pandemic between the nations. I do accept , however, the rates you quoted are correct.👍

[redjambo]

6 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Thanks for confirming in such detail, Red.👍 You're normally on day shift with stats so I hope you claim o/t for this 😂

 

Double time, Enzo.

 

In essence, you were right to challenge the 40% figure on the basis that you believed that one of the other measurements was more accurate. The fact that you didn't use a basis for your objection made me look the stats up and I was surprised to learn that the figure was down at 25%/26% for the other two measurements, so I learned something new.

 

I didn't reply to the other question you asked as I don't have any definitive evidence, but as far as I am aware Scotland and England sing from the same hymn sheet when it comes to how they calculate their Covid-related deaths, so in my opinion that isn't what has created the difference. I don't think that anyone does know what has though, yet.

[redjambo]

26 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

I stand corrected after my previous comments on the death rates, XB. I don't think there has been much difference in the handling of the pandemic between the nations. I do accept , however, the rates you quoted are correct.👍

 

I feel bad now. Just argue that you believe that the Excess Deaths figures are more reflective of the true situation and you're fine in opposing the 40%, Enzo. But I suppose you will have to be prepared to justify why you think that is so.

 

Personally, I feel that due to the different ways that some countries have been counting Covid deaths and also the claims that some countries have been covering up deaths, the real solid statistical analysis between the effects of the pandemic on countries around the world will have to be based on Excess Deaths figures. But that's not necessarily based on their being more accurate, merely because they will provide a better means of comparison between countries.

 

Anyway, that's digressing significantly from the topic of this thread, my apologies. As far as I see it personally, anyway, there have been significantly less deaths per-capita from Covid in Scotland than in England, but until we can work out exactly why that is (and it could be for a whole host of reasons), it can't really be used as ammunition for any arguments.

Edited April 7, 2021 by redjambo

[JackLadd]

44 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

I remind you again that the vote in the Scottish parliament was unanimous. Are you genuinely saying that Cameron and then every other MSP from the other parties in Holyrood were somehow hoodwinked into giving 16 and 17 year olds the vote? Really?

 

If you actually believe that, and it isn't part of some dogma you have or is an effort at trolling, I would humbly but genuinely suggest that you take a step back and have a look at what you're writing here and ask yourself whether or not it is grounded in rational thought.

 

My personal opinion is that it's a self serving SNP move wrapped in fake progressive garb designed to wreck the Union and push that agenda, pure and simple. If you don't think that then you have been in some kind of stupor since 2007 or suffering memory loss like the Sturgeonfuhrer. Possibly a contagious condition amongst her and cult members.  

[Faither]

On 03/04/2021 at 12:57, TheOak88 said:

 

So those are his biggest scandals. 

 

He once swore on a Zoom call.

 

He got into an argument with the electoral commission about the cost of leaflets. 

 

He is not exactly Margaret Ferrier is he. 

no, but he is English !

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 hour ago, redjambo said:

 

I feel bad now. Just argue that you believe that the Excess Deaths figures are more reflective of the true situation and you're fine in opposing the 40%, Enzo. But I suppose you will have to be prepared to justify why you think that is so.

 

Personally, I feel that due to the different ways that some countries have been counting Covid deaths and also the claims that some countries have been covering up deaths, the real solid statistical analysis between the effects of the pandemic on countries around the world will have to be based on Excess Deaths figures. But that's not necessarily based on their being more accurate, merely because they will provide a better means of comparison between countries.

 

Anyway, that's digressing significantly from the topic of this thread, my apologies. As far as I see it personally, anyway, there have been significantly less deaths per-capita from Covid in Scotland than in England, but until we can work out exactly why that is (and it could be for a whole host of reasons), it can't really be used as ammunition for any arguments.

😂. No problem,  Red.  I appreciate your clarification of the stats.

Yes, excess deaths are probably a better measurement to compare different countries. Whereas, the UK is one of the worst in the world for actual Covid death rates, when comparing excess deaths over the same period, according to a recent article that I read, we are far from the worst. I don't know the Scotland/England comparison on this measurement though.

Glad to hear you're getting double time though.🤣

 

[Governor Tarkin]

8 hours ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

 

Haven't read Red's post above then?

 

 

Red is known for talking shite and most folk scroll past his posts tbf. 🤷‍♂️

 

 

 

Edit. Except the stats. We like the stats. 👍

Edited April 8, 2021 by Governor Tarkin

[XB52]

10 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

No it's not

Yes it is.  Just seen your later posts so 👍

Edited April 8, 2021 by XB52

[Ribble]

On 04/04/2021 at 16:55, hmfcbilly said:

Yes we are fortunate with the council tax this year but I have no doubt we will be hit with a big rise next year to compensate for this year's freeze. 

 

I dont agree with free prescriptions across the board. I ongoing or longterm should be free but if you get an antibiotic once or twice a year I think it should be payable (but means tested for the lowest earners)

Free prescriptions is the greatest piece of political marketing from the SNP to date, less than 5% of prescriptions were chargeable in the first place as they were already free for birth control, certain long term conditions, under 18’s, students, anyone on benefits and the over 65’s meaning that the only people that were liable to pay for prescriptions were those that were working and in generally in good health. 

[manaliveits105]

1 hour ago, Ribble said:

Free prescriptions is the greatest piece of political marketing from the SNP to date, less than 5% of prescriptions were chargeable in the first place as they were already free for birth control, certain long term conditions, under 18’s, students, anyone on benefits and the over 65’s meaning that the only people that were liable to pay for prescriptions were those that were working and in generally in good health. 

Indeed more smoke and mirrors its all about showboating and actually little substance with sturgeon and the snp 

[ri Alban]

 

 

 

So what happened to the SNP...