Sarah Everard (Missing Woman)

[John Findlay]

1 minute ago, pablo said:

 

There's two events in Edinburgh and one in Glasgow tomorrow. The Scottish Government made a statement this afternoon to say they cannot guarantee that Police Scotland will not disperse the crowds.

Then the police should disperse them. Large gatherings of peoples is prohibited, regardless the cause.

[John Findlay]

1 minute ago, Norm said:

But its not a tiny minority that are violent though. Its a fairly big minority. You only have to see on here the number of folk who say "You wouldn't say that to my face". Why? Because you're going to smack someone for calling you a name? A ****ing name? It's pish. As a sex, blokes are far too quick to get the fists out. 

That is true. Alas the same can be said for women too nowadays.

To many off them behave like men nowadays. 

[pablo]

Just now, John Findlay said:

Then the police should disperse them. Large gatherings of peoples is prohibited, regardless the cause.

 

Agreed. Such a dreadful story and it's easy to feel empathy for the Reclaim the Streets message. But, as you say the worthy cause isn't relevant to whether they should be allowed to take place or not.

[fabienleclerq]

4 minutes ago, Norm said:

But its not a tiny minority that are violent though. Its a fairly big minority. You only have to see on here the number of folk who say "You wouldn't say that to my face". Why? Because you're going to smack someone for calling you a name? A ****ing name? It's pish. As a sex, blokes are far too quick to get the fists out. 

 

It's a minority of people who are rapists and murderers was more my point.

 

People being violent is a much bigger issue agreed but even then its an issue that appears to be less than before. 

 

[CJGJ]

23 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

The main vigil is planned for London.

The court challenge is in London.

Not anything to do with the FM.

Well perhaps not as I'm sure you would now agree after being giving accurate information

 

Police Scotland has warned people against attending vigils prompted by the death of Sarah Everard.

A number of events have been planned in Edinburgh in solidarity with women who feel unsafe in public spaces.

Organisers of one vigil on Saturday expect around 100 people to attend.

Health Secretary Jeane Freeman has also urged people against holding public gatherings and instead advised people to show their support at home or on social media.

Assistant Chief Constable Alan Speirs said: "We are aware of a number of planned vigils following the tragic murder of Sarah Everard, but would urge people to please follow the coronavirus regulations.

"Under the current restrictions, people should stay at home and find an alternative way to show support and express their views, such as online. This helps keep people safe and reduces the transmission of the virus."

 

The organiser of a vigil due to take place at the Scottish Parliament on Saturday evening said she felt "let down" by the health secretary's message against gatherings.

Chloe Whyte argued that previous social media campaigns for significant moments like the #MeToo movement had "failed in the past".

Ms Whyte told BBC Radio Scotland's Drivetime show: "My message to Jeane Freeman is that I know how the virus works - I am a care home worker who has watched people die from this virus repeatedly and I just think why should a group of citizens that are responsible, calm, distanced and masked up not be allowed to gather?

[John Findlay]

Just now, CJGJ said:

Well perhaps not as I'm sure you would now agree after being giving accurate information

 

Police Scotland has warned people against attending vigils prompted by the death of Sarah Everard.

A number of events have been planned in Edinburgh in solidarity with women who feel unsafe in public spaces.

Organisers of one vigil on Saturday expect around 100 people to attend.

Health Secretary Jeane Freeman has also urged people against holding public gatherings and instead advised people to show their support at home or on social media.

Assistant Chief Constable Alan Speirs said: "We are aware of a number of planned vigils following the tragic murder of Sarah Everard, but would urge people to please follow the coronavirus regulations.

"Under the current restrictions, people should stay at home and find an alternative way to show support and express their views, such as online. This helps keep people safe and reduces the transmission of the virus."

 

The organiser of a vigil due to take place at the Scottish Parliament on Saturday evening said she felt "let down" by the health secretary's message against gatherings.

Chloe Whyte argued that previous social media campaigns for significant moments like the #MeToo movement had "failed in the past".

Ms Whyte told BBC Radio Scotland's Drivetime show: "My message to Jeane Freeman is that I know how the virus works - I am a care home worker who has watched people die from this virus repeatedly and I just think why should a group of citizens that are responsible, calm, distanced and masked up not be allowed to gather?

See my earlier post.

[moogsy]

33 minutes ago, Peakybunnet said:

 

That's true. There is a programme to monitor and supervise high risk Registered Sex Offenders, but unless you are with them 24/7 they will have opportunities. 

 

Getting away from online pedophiles there will be men like Couzens who look at violent sex and murder websites and maybe more work can be done around who visits these sites. Understandably almost all resources will be targeting pedophiles but its food for thought. 

 

Controversial but if you cant "eradicate" them should we chemically castrate them? 

If there was proof that chemical castration was effective personally I’d have no issues with it. As far as I know recidivism rates for sexual offenders are pretty high and personally I think the need to protect society comes before anything else.

 

The problem you’ve got Is with people like Couzens who are able to ‘fly under the radar’ and maintain a respectable public facade while deep down harbouring these despicable thoughts and fantasies. I’m not sure you’ll ever be able to stop someone like that.

 

The only consolation is that with CCTV everywhere and forensics at such an advanced stage, the chances of doing something like this and getting away with it are slim to none these days.

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

51 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

I know alot of women suffer emotional/psychological abuse. Oddly enough men do too.

It's all wrong.

Yes its all wrong no matter what sex of person

[JudyJudyJudy]

21 minutes ago, moogsy said:

If there was proof that chemical castration was effective personally I’d have no issues with it. As far as I know recidivism rates for sexual offenders are pretty high and personally I think the need to protect society comes before anything else.

 

The problem you’ve got Is with people like Couzens who are able to ‘fly under the radar’ and maintain a respectable public facade while deep down harbouring these despicable thoughts and fantasies. I’m not sure you’ll ever be able to stop someone like that.

 

The only consolation is that with CCTV everywhere and forensics at such an advanced stage, the chances of doing something like this and getting away with it are slim to none these days.

 

Good post.  

[Tazio]

There’s no reason for people to start speculating this suspect could be a repeat offender. Some people just snap for no reason and do something terrible. When I was younger a lad I knew’s big brother, quiet guy, stayed with his parents, held down a steady job with the gas board. Then he went out one night drove down to Coburg Street got a prostitute into his van and raped and murdered her. No warning signs or odd behaviour in his life at any point up to that. 

[Mikey1874]

2 hours ago, Norm said:

Absolutely bang on. I made a pish poor attempt to highlight the fact that male on male violence is way, way higher than male on female.

 

This was not to diminish the threat to women, more to highlight that men really need to sort themselves the **** out. If we're horrified at the attacks on women, which we are, we need to be horrified at attacks on men too.

 

Too many ****ing ******s who want to go square goes in night clubs, the utter bellends pavement dancing at the football, just so many utter knobends out there. 

 

I've also pointed out that men are the main victims of violence.

 

But perhaps we define violence wrongly. In terms of domestic abuse women have the worst end of things. And a lot of that is controlling behaviour. As well as general abuse and harassment. Men tend to just get on with life even those most at risk.  

 

The vigils etc are more a reaction to all that. 

Edited March 12, 2021 by Mikey1874

[JudyJudyJudy]

[Sharpie]

57 minutes ago, Norm said:

But its not a tiny minority that are violent though. Its a fairly big minority. You only have to see on here the number of folk who say "You wouldn't say that to my face". Why? Because you're going to smack someone for calling you a name? A ****ing name? It's pish. As a sex, blokes are far too quick to get the fists out. 

 Thats me, Guiilty as charged, my old man after I challenged him and he showed me who was boss, quite violently told me two things, never threaten, if your going to hit him do it, and second there are no  Queensbury rules in a street fight. Fortunately because I have always been a pretty big guy and when angry it is quite visible and my wife told me frightening. I have only really had to do it once, in my first tragic years in Canada I was too old for the established police departments. I worked in a store in the security department a total come down. I used to join some workmates in a pub across from the store for a couple beers. Another customer a regular who had joined us on occasion and knew of my past service enjoyed taunting me about it, he was a truck driver and they are all reputed to be hard men. I left the pub and he followed me got in front of me and made some threatening comments, I remembered my old mans advice and hit him a good one, no threats, no mitts up just one good solid punch. He went down like a sack of crap and lay there . I went home the next day at work the security office called and said two Vancouver policemen wanted to talk to me. My first thought was oh no I killed him, but then the cops arrived. I knew them well they also knew my background and just wanted to tell me there was a new Federal police department opening and looking for experienced personnel. I applied and the rest is history.  My long as usual tale is to agree with your point fisticuffs are no answer, in my case I was insulted but so what, actually the trucker and I got on pretty well after, but my relationships all ended when becoming a policeman again.

[Sharpie]

25 minutes ago, Tazio said:

There’s no reason for people to start speculating this suspect could be a repeat offender. Some people just snap for no reason and do something terrible. When I was younger a lad I knew’s big brother, quiet guy, stayed with his parents, held down a steady job with the gas board. Then he went out one night drove down to Coburg Street got a prostitute into his van and raped and murdered her. No warning signs or odd behaviour in his life at any point up to that. 

  

Its my personal experience and considerable training in such matters that it is seldom a one time thing. Generally it can be learned on investigation that there were  signs that potential misdeeds could be coming. Rape can possibly be defended if evidence be presented that the female was leading the man on and failed to identify the danger signals, no excuse for Rape, but can be used as a defence. Murder following the rape points to serious mental difficulty, may not have happened in any form before, but the fact is that it may have but no complaint was made or the rapist identified. The minds of us all are fragile things, and some are more prone to accepting thought of misdeeds, when viewing the results  and trauma to the victim and violence used it is hard to stay sympathetic. As I try to say age, experience and training may not make one more sympathetic but it does inspire some understanding.

[Tazio]

Just now, Sharpie said:

  

Its my personal experience and considerable training in such matters that it is seldom a one time thing. Generally it can be learned on investigation that there were  signs that potential misdeeds could be coming. Rape can possibly be defended if evidence be presented that the female was leading the man on and failed to identify the danger signals, no excuse for Rape, but can be used as a defence. Murder following the rape points to serious mental difficulty, may not have happened in any form before, but the fact is that it may have but no complaint was made or the rapist identified. The minds of us all are fragile things, and some are more prone to accepting thought of misdeeds, when viewing the results  and trauma to the victim and violence used it is hard to stay sympathetic. As I try to say age, experience and training may not make one more sympathetic but it does inspire some understanding.

My point was more that the behaviour can start at any time as opposed to people doing the crime only the once. In the case of the man I mentioned almost definitely fortunate he was caught the first time as he’d done it for the first time and discovered he could do it. For whatever reason that part of his personality had eventually come out and something like that you can’t put back in its box. 

[Ritchez]

4 hours ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said:

There's not going to be a curfew FFS. ignore that and move on. Focusing on it is culture war bullshit.

 

Also, any man who feels "attacked" by the coverage and fall out here - have a word with yourself. 😄. 

 

Paraphrasing someone here but on this issue men only have to worry about their feelings being hurt, woman have to worry about being murdered. Quite easy to spot the difference there. 

 

This, especially the part in bold.

 

I'd wager that pretty much every woman has a story about being abused or made to feel unsafe around a man. 

 

Men need to shut up and listen to women here.

[Tazio]

Wayne Couzens officially charged with abduction and murder. 

[Locky]

2 hours ago, Norm said:

But its not a tiny minority that are violent though. Its a fairly big minority. You only have to see on here the number of folk who say "You wouldn't say that to my face". Why? Because you're going to smack someone for calling you a name? A ****ing name? It's pish. As a sex, blokes are far too quick to get the fists out. 

To be fair, that's just a defence mechanism. it's easy to say 'you wouldn't say that to my face' on a football forum. I've found myself saying flippant comments like that. Doesn't mean I want to go and hunt for blood. I've never been involved in a square go in my life and I've never harmed a single person, but I'd never back down from it.

[I P Knightley]

4 hours ago, pablo said:

 

There's two events in Edinburgh and one in Glasgow tomorrow. The Scottish Government made a statement this afternoon to say they cannot guarantee that Police Scotland will not disperse the crowds.

If they'd taken serious steps against the mutant hordes of Rangers freaks and, earlier, the Celtic loons who felt they were above lockdown restrictions, then maybe they'd have a leg to stand on. But they've all but given the green light for those creeps so they can hardly clamp down on something a thousand times more worthy. 

[Tazio]

5 minutes ago, I P Knightley said:

If they'd taken serious steps against the mutant hordes of Rangers freaks and, earlier, the Celtic loons who felt they were above lockdown restrictions, then maybe they'd have a leg to stand on. But they've all but given the green light for those creeps so they can hardly clamp down on something a thousand times more worthy. 

The Holyrood event has been cancelled on police advice. 

[maggieb]

On 11/03/2021 at 19:42, **** the SPFL said:

camera switched off for a minute possibly 

Let this be true , scum versus our loyal forces...please🤞🏻

[Nookie Bear]

11 hours ago, Tazio said:

My point was more that the behaviour can start at any time as opposed to people doing the crime only the once. In the case of the man I mentioned almost definitely fortunate he was caught the first time as he’d done it for the first time and discovered he could do it. For whatever reason that part of his personality had eventually come out and something like that you can’t put back in its box. 

Such as Dunblane, for instance?

[Spellczech]

16 hours ago, fabienleclerq said:

A couple points, the poor girl isn't even buried yet and it feels like her murder is being used by people to push their agenda. Her family must be going through hell and all this media attention on top. 

 

Some of the stuff I've seen written about men is outrageous! Curfews, "All men need educated to not rape and murder" "all men are potential rapists". Even the male violence tagline, its some males committing these awful crimes,the majority are appalled by it. 

 

 

 

 

Indeed, there is a reason that sex offenders have to be protected in prisons from your good, decent muggers and murderers. Some peoples' values and morals are f'd up to the extent that they don't have any.  Not sure what the case is with this Couzins guy but either something triggered him to turn from being a decent family man into a sex attacker and murderer or he's hidden it well from his family, friends and colleagues whom you'd think would be well-placed to see through the facade. It's clear the police are now looking into whether there are other bodies out there better hidden, which shows that they didn't have a clue and perhaps still don't...

[Spellczech]

12 hours ago, I P Knightley said:

If they'd taken serious steps against the mutant hordes of Rangers freaks and, earlier, the Celtic loons who felt they were above lockdown restrictions, then maybe they'd have a leg to stand on. But they've all but given the green light for those creeps so they can hardly clamp down on something a thousand times more worthy. 

Hmmn... When did these vigils for murdered people start? Is it a relatively new import from the US. It seems quasi-religious to me. Personally I find it a bit ghoulish, like the people who slow down at road accidents or congregate at murder scenes, or all the celebs who publicly post messages saying how much they loved Caroline Flack, or support Sarah Harding now she is fighting breast cancer rather than mere alcoholism.... I don't really understand what it is for and what people get from it - to the extent that I'm somewhat suspicious about it...it seems they want to "get involved" or make it just a little bit about them. I wonder when it actually happens whether the count of selfies taken and posted on social media will exceed the turnout count?

Edited March 13, 2021 by Spellczech

[AlphonseCapone]

21 hours ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said:

There's not going to be a curfew FFS. ignore that and move on. Focusing on it is culture war bullshit.

 

Also, any man who feels "attacked" by the coverage and fall out here - have a word with yourself. 😄. 

 

Paraphrasing someone here but on this issue men only have to worry about their feelings being hurt, woman have to worry about being murdered. Quite easy to spot the difference there. 

 

Good post. 

 

Folk should ignore the 6pm thing, it's a ridiculous suggestion that imo was trying poorly to make a point. Anyone making that point seriously is mental. 

 

On the men hurt more men type arguments. It's not wrong but it's not the point here. It's not a, "but" situation. If people want to discuss male on male violence they should and it's a very worthy topic but bringing it up when women are talking about their experiences with men comes across as trying to divert attention.

 

Let women discuss their experiences with men and listen for now. It's not the right time to raise men on men violence, and the reason it isn't the right time is because you could have done that last week, but you didn't. You're doing it in response to women talking about men and that seems a bit off imo. 

[Sharpie]

When I read this thread I wonder about the Met Police pre employment process. Here when applying for the job one of the tests is the psychological test and interview with a psychiatrist. Surprisingly after my Edinburgh days I actually passed mine. As an officer in charge I rejected a  number of seemingly good applicants because of questions raised during that part of the process. I wonder if the Met do such a process, and what it showed.  

 

Yesterday I see in the news that the Floyd family have received twenty seven million dollars as a result of the suit because of his death. This is what got me pondering, would a case such as this one in England ever induce a suit say for failing to properly process an applicant, leading to the untimely death of a relative. If the test was applied on application, did it identify any potential problems and what if any action was taken.

[Spellczech]

6 minutes ago, Sharpie said:

When I read this thread I wonder about the Met Police pre employment process. Here when applying for the job one of the tests is the psychological test and interview with a psychiatrist. Surprisingly after my Edinburgh days I actually passed mine. As an officer in charge I rejected a  number of seemingly good applicants because of questions raised during that part of the process. I wonder if the Met do such a process, and what it showed.  

 

Yesterday I see in the news that the Floyd family have received twenty seven million dollars as a result of the suit because of his death. This is what got me pondering, would a case such as this one in England ever induce a suit say for failing to properly process an applicant, leading to the untimely death of a relative. If the test was applied on application, did it identify any potential problems and what if any action was taken.

Don't mean to be rude but if you are genuinely (which I doubt) surprised that you passed your own psych test, why would you be surprised that this guy passed his with the Met? This guy's family and friends lined up yesterday to give him character references...Does it not just mean that the psych test probably rates about 2 out of 10 as a filter?

Edited March 13, 2021 by Spellczech

[Tazio]

1 minute ago, Sharpie said:

When I read this thread I wonder about the Met Police pre employment process. Here when applying for the job one of the tests is the psychological test and interview with a psychiatrist. Surprisingly after my Edinburgh days I actually passed mine. As an officer in charge I rejected a  number of seemingly good applicants because of questions raised during that part of the process. I wonder if the Met do such a process, and what it showed.  

 

Yesterday I see in the news that the Floyd family have received twenty seven million dollars as a result of the suit because of his death. This is what got me pondering, would a case such as this one in England ever induce a suit say for failing to properly process an applicant, leading to the untimely death of a relative. If the test was applied on application, did it identify any potential problems and what if any action was taken.

Re the Met employment process. When I was leaving school a friend applied to Lothian And Borders police as she had wanted to do all the way through school. Unfortunately she wasn’t accepted by them. After that she got back in touch with them to query the decision and ask if there was anything she had to do so she could apply again. The person she spoke to her said if was keen to get into the police right away she should apply to the Met as they were the easiest force in the UK to get into as they were desperate for officers. Admittedly that was in the eighties but I wonder if that’s still the case. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

2 minutes ago, Tazio said:

Re the Met employment process. When I was leaving school a friend applied to Lothian And Borders police as she had wanted to do all the way through school. Unfortunately she wasn’t accepted by them. After that she got back in touch with them to query the decision and ask if there was anything she had to do so she could apply again. The person she spoke to her said if was keen to get into the police right away she should apply to the Met as they were the easiest force in the UK to get into as they were desperate for officers. Admittedly that was in the eighties but I wonder if that’s still the case. 

I know of at least 2 people who couldn’t get into the L&B but joined the Met.

Edited March 13, 2021 by The Real Maroonblood

[Norm]

25 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

Good post. 

 

Folk should ignore the 6pm thing, it's a ridiculous suggestion that imo was trying poorly to make a point. Anyone making that point seriously is mental. 

 

On the men hurt more men type arguments. It's not wrong but it's not the point here. It's not a, "but" situation. If people want to discuss male on male violence they should and it's a very worthy topic but bringing it up when women are talking about their experiences with men comes across as trying to divert attention.

 

Let women discuss their experiences with men and listen for now. It's not the right time to raise men on men violence, and the reason it isn't the right time is because you could have done that last week, but you didn't. You're doing it in response to women talking about men and that seems a bit off imo. 

In my defence, I'm not doing it to say ".... But we men get it just as tight". It's to highlight that men really do have a problem, regardless of the victims gender. And I have no doubt that the general acceptance of violence against men only helps to breed an environment in a man's mind that violence against women isn't that much worse. 

 

It's not a massive jump from the guy's squaring up to folk in nightclubs because they "looked at them funny" to them smacking a lassie because she had the cheek to answer him back.

 

Stamp out violence being acceptable anywhere and you'll stamp out violence against women. 

Edited March 13, 2021 by Norm

[SwindonJambo]

7 hours ago, Barack said:

The more you learn about this twat, the darker it becomes. Digging up his garden, checking out other properties. Tunnels he has access too.

 

Trying to Epstein himself in the cell twice now. 

 

Definitely not this boy's first disco, imo.

 

That is a good point and hopefully the Met will investigate him for potential previous. He’s made 2 attempts to do himself in whilst in custody  already which isn’t a good look.

[Tazio]

1 minute ago, Norm said:

In my defence, I'm not doing it to say ".... But we men get it just as tight". It's to highlight that men really do have a problem, regardless of the victims gender. And I have no doubt that the general acceptance of violence against men only helps to breed an environment in a man's mind that violence against women isn't that much worse. 

 

Stamp out violence being acceptable anywhere and you'll stamp out violence against women. 

I hate the phrase toxic masculinity but can’t deny it exists. I’ve bumped into blokes I was at school with that still play the hard man routine and think being a hard man makes you superior to other people. 
I’m 55. 

[Norm]

5 minutes ago, Tazio said:

I hate the phrase toxic masculinity but can’t deny it exists. I’ve bumped into blokes I was at school with that still play the hard man routine and think being a hard man makes you superior to other people. 
I’m 55. 

We ****ing celebrate violence. We pay millions upon millions to people to punch, kick, knee and elbow folk until they're unconscious. We complain if one of them gets knocked out too early, depriving us of more punches and knees to the head. We ****ing love it. 

[AlphonseCapone]

6 minutes ago, Norm said:

In my defence, I'm not doing it to say ".... But we men get it just as tight". It's to highlight that men really do have a problem, regardless of the victims gender. And I have no doubt that the general acceptance of violence against men only helps to breed an environment in a man's mind that violence against women isn't that much worse. 

 

It's not a massive jump from the guy's squaring up to folk in nightclubs because they "looked at them funny" to them smacking a lassie because she had the cheek to answer him back.

 

Stamp out violence being acceptable anywhere and you'll stamp out violence against women. 

 

I don't disagree with what you're saying mate, it's certainly an important point. But I think it's about timing. There are a lot of men I've seen, on this thread is an example, saying jesus I didn't realise it felt like that to be a woman etc. It's good some of those conversations are happening and I just feel men should be willing to listen just now, in the immediate aftermath of this particular event. After that though, there are a lot of things to unpack as we think about how to change things and the general violence of some men against any gender is absolutely an important strand in that conversation. 

[Sharpie]

41 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Don't mean to be rude but if you are genuinely (which I doubt) surprised that you passed your own psych test, why would you be surprised that this guy passed his with the Met? This guy's family and friends lined up yesterday to give him character references...Does it not just mean that the psych test probably rates about 2 out of 10 as a filter?

Probably a stupid thing to say, I had no problems, I was just probably in my own mind thinking  amusedly you had to be nuts to have enjoyed  the long time spent in Niddrie as a policeman.. Having seen in practise how deep the test reveals the persons mind and feeling that I do that generally a person is probably born with some future problems it may have shown up and for some reason been ignored. Funny enough a comment I have seen in tests referred to adverse feelings about women. If I had as time has passed since my involvement I cannot state the filter value of the test, I do know that I put considerable value on them when the person doing the hiring interviews brought them to my attention.

[fabienleclerq]

See if you changed the demographic from all men need to shut up and listen or any men feeling attacked need to have a word to any other group the same  people saying it would be outraged. 

 

It's the equivalent of saying after the Manchester bombs or London attacks all Muslims need to shut up and listen. It's preposterous. 

[Norm]

4 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said:

See if you changed the demographic from all men need to shut up and listen or any men feeling attacked need to have a word to any other group the same  people saying it would be outraged. 

 

It's the equivalent of saying after the Manchester bombs or London attacks all Muslims need to shut up and listen. It's preposterous. 

Pretty sure most folk said the Muslim community needed to do more after the bombings. 

Edited March 13, 2021 by Norm

[fabienleclerq]

1 minute ago, Norm said:

Pretty sure most folk said the Muslim community needed to do more after the bombings. 

Not in the same manner as we are talking about with men just now. Stuff about all men needing educated and advocating curfews! Can you imagine a lord advocating a curfew for only Muslims? 

[Norm]

16 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said:

Not in the same manner as we are talking about with men just now. Stuff about all men needing educated and advocating curfews! Can you imagine a lord advocating a curfew for only Muslims? 

As mentioned, the curfew was pretty much in reply to the "women shouldn't go out after dark on their own" spiel from the fuzz. Why the **** shouldn't women go out after dark? It's essentially saying "Sorry women, we clearly can't stop men wanting to attack you so best stay in doors". 

 

And personally, I think men do need to be educated more to stop using violence to sort out problems. From beating partners, to punching some young dad who ends up dying after hitting his head on the way down. It needs to ****ing stop. 

 

 

[fabienleclerq]

16 minutes ago, Norm said:

As mentioned, the curfew was pretty much in reply to the "women shouldn't go out after dark on their own" spiel from the fuzz. Why the **** shouldn't women go out after dark? It's essentially saying "Sorry women, we clearly can't stop men wanting to attack you so best stay in doors". 

 

And personally, I think men do need to be educated more to stop using violence to sort out problems. From beating partners, to punching some young dad who ends up dying after hitting his head on the way down. It needs to ****ing stop. 

 

 

 

The majority never do those things so the issue is saying all men, do you need sat down and educated not to attack women? 

 

I get the curfew thing was a nonsense but my point is it would never be suggested for any other demographic based on a few individuals actions. I think folk are getting their knickers in a twist over a suggestion that's meaning was to ultimately protect women. You can educate men as much as you want it won't stop psychopaths doing stuff like this so a suggestion to take precautions shouldn't be met with an outcry of sexism. 

 

This poor girls murder has been hijacked by people pushing a male v female agenda. 

[kila]

39 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said:

See if you changed the demographic from all men need to shut up and listen or any men feeling attacked need to have a word to any other group the same  people saying it would be outraged. 

 

It's the equivalent of saying after the Manchester bombs or London attacks all Muslims need to shut up and listen. It's preposterous. 

 

The thing is, we probably all know someone who sort of falls into the dodgy character list. How you ever called them out? Are we afraid to rock the boat? Is it still just banter if we deep down resent the reality?

 

The times are a changing and the stereotypical male is in need of upgrade an upgrade - and by that I mean what is portrayed in our films and TV shows. There can be a bit of 'monkey see monkey do', especially with young males who are wondering how they are meant to behave and are very easily influenced.

 

I actually find watching some older TV series I used to enjoy as a young lad quite hard because of the underlying sexism (and racism) that either went over my head at the time or I somewhat relished in because it made me feel superior for a brief moment - when the truth was I viewed myself as worthless and needed a distraction from that feeling. Talking about the root causes of this shit is what males need to do and it looks like on the whole we're going in the right direction.

 

[dobmisterdobster]

49 minutes ago, Norm said:

Pretty sure most folk said the Muslim community needed to do more after the bombings. 

 

There is no homogeneous Muslim community in the UK and there is definitely no "Male community".

[Norm]

5 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

The majority never do those things so the issue is saying all men, do you need sat down and educated not to attack women? 

 

I get the curfew thing was a nonsense but my point is it would never be suggested for any other demographic based on a few individuals actions. I think folk are getting their knickers in a twist over a suggestion that's meaning was to ultimately protect women. You can educate men as much as you want it won't stop psychopaths doing stuff like this so a suggestion to take precautions shouldn't be met with an outcry of sexism. 

 

This poor girls murder has been hijacked by people pushing a male v female agenda. 

It's not the majority but it's a sizeable minority. In the same way the majority of OF fans aren't in fact rabid sectarian bigots, the OF still need to do more to sort out the arseholes. It's the same here IMO. 

[fabienleclerq]

2 minutes ago, kila said:

 

The thing is, we probably all know someone who sort of falls into the dodgy character list. How you ever called them out? Are we afraid to rock the boat? Is it still just banter if we deep down resent the reality?

 

The times are a changing and the stereotypical male is in need of upgrade an upgrade - and by that I mean what is portrayed in our films and TV shows. There can be a bit of 'monkey see monkey do', especially with young males who are wondering how they are meant to behave and are very easily influenced.

 

I actually find watching some older TV series I used to enjoy as a young lad quite hard because of the underlying sexism (and racism) that either went over my head at the time or I somewhat relished in because it made me feel superior for a brief moment - when the truth was I viewed myself as worthless and needed a distraction from that feeling. Talking about the root causes of this shit is what males need to do and it looks like on the whole we're going in the right direction.

 

 

I don't have pals that would be violent towards women or certainly not that I'm aware of as if happily call them on it. Ironically one of the women loudest about this on my social media speaks to her husband so badly but it'd be awkward for my wife if I called her on it, Ive resisted so far but won't forever. 

 

I work late night trains so I'm constantly on the watch for stuff like creepy men as I'm not having it on my watch so to speak. I've put men off the train for their behaviour before, held trains and escorted women to police at stations etc. I do my best that I can and don't expect a pat on the back. I just feel things like this should be used to bring folk together, the way the rhetoric is I feel its creating a divide. 

[fabienleclerq]

1 minute ago, Norm said:

It's not the majority but it's a sizeable minority. In the same way the majority of OF fans aren't in fact rabid sectarian bigots, the OF still need to do more to sort out the arseholes. It's the same here IMO. 

 

Which is a fair opinion, the stuff that's got my back up is people saying all men. 

[Norm]

10 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

Which is a fair opinion, the stuff that's got my back up is people saying all men. 

It pisses me off as well. But we've only got ourselves to blame. We encourage laddies to toy fight, we square up to folk for getting wide, we laugh at Neil Lennon getting lamped, all of this fosters an environment where hitting a guy is seen as perfectly acceptable.

 

And once hitting a guy is seen as acceptable, it's easy enough for the proper bellends to think hitting women is fine too. 

 

Edit - Maybe not encourage laddies to toy fight but it's certainly not clamped down on. 

Edited March 13, 2021 by Norm

[fabienleclerq]

9 minutes ago, Norm said:

It pisses me off as well. But we've only got ourselves to blame. We encourage laddies to toy fight, we square up to folk for getting wide, we laugh at Neil Lennon getting lamped, all of this fosters an environment where hitting a guy is seen as perfectly acceptable.

 

And once hitting a guy is seen as acceptable, it's easy enough for the proper bellends to think hitting women is fine too. 

 

Edit - Maybe not encourage laddies to toy fight but it's certainly not clamped down on. 

 

I think it's a bit of a leap from toy fighting to beating women tbh. I don't think boys being boisterous and toy fighting should be clamped down on, it's pretty natural behaviour. 

 

 

[Norm]

11 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

I think it's a bit of a leap from toy fighting to beating women tbh. I don't think boys being boisterous and toy fighting should be clamped down on, it's pretty natural behaviour. 

 

 

It is natural behaviour, because we're a violent species. I don't think we should clamp down on it either, but it all adds up to men thinking physical confrontation is an acceptable thing. 

[fabienleclerq]

5 minutes ago, Norm said:

It is natural behaviour, because we're a violent species. I don't think we should clamp down on it either, but it all adds up to men thinking physical confrontation is an acceptable thing. 

 

 

I suppose at some points it has to be, who's going to confront people behaving badly towards women if they aren't ready for a physical confrontation? You'd rather talk them out of it or scare them off but ultimately you know there's a chance it will get physical. 

[Norm]

1 minute ago, Lord BJ said:

 

I’m teaching , well not me per se, my boy to defend himself/fight or whatever you want to call it.

 

My wife and I both agreed that it was important he learned a martial arts, not for the sole purpose of fighting but discipline, self control, sport, fitness but essentially so he could handle/defend himself if the situation occurred. He actually want to jack his footie to take another martial art.

 

We both insisted he tried it and it’s never once crossed our mind our daughter enrols in it. Despite their being numerous girls in the classes which he does have to spar with. 

 

My wife and I viewed that he would be much more likely to be subject to physical harm, whether thats ‘boy’s being boy’s’ in the playground or the risks that a young man will face when they get older.

 

No real point to my post, other than personal experience but I definitely view my son to be at a greater risk than my daughter of violence.  Maybe that will change when they are a bit older and the daughter is of an age where she attracts more ‘attention’

 

The issues and risks they face will likely be different, I guess. 

You're absolutely right that your boy is more likely to be a victim of violence. And regarding the self defence and martial arts, it's a great idea, as long as the absolute number one rule of "fight club" so to speak, is to not get in a fight. Walk away, run if you have to, but only as an absolute last resort, if you are in physical danger, should you in any way use violence.