Irving - signs for SK Austria Klagenfurt ( updated )

[Dunks]

45 minutes ago, Newton51 said:

Contract has expired now. Maybe we are negotiating the development fee otherwise why have we not announced he has left

 

The contract may have expired, but his registration will still be with Hearts.

[Jambof3tornado]

10 hours ago, Jambo-Fox said:

Understand and agree!

 

But what is a decent wage within Hearts budget / pay scale??

This is the issue, what we fans see as decent may be miles off what the player desires, or what his agent has told him he could achieve for him if he moves away.

 

I would like to see us continue to develop Irving but maybe the club thinks we have better coming through the ranks.

[Dia Liom]

Seems mad to speculate on the talks between Irving and the club - he hates Neilson?? he thinks he's bigger than HMFC?? wtf.  He is very talented young player with an awful lot to improve on.  There are a few interesting questions.

 

What place is Irving being given for next season?  I would be very surprised if RN had told Irving anything other than, 'you'll be in the squad and will have to fight for a starting place'.  If we recruit well and bring in a top class CM, Irving will have to bide his time, and rightfully so imo.

 

Where does he see as being better for his progression?  Surely some scottish prem teams have looked at him, which might work if he fancies a better chance of starting, at ross county, say, or just a fresh start - aberdeen/st johnstone?  Maybe he wants to go down south - it'd be interesting to see what level.  Or go to europe/US.  

 

Curious to see how it unfolds.  My preference would be to keep him here, but obv lots of factors which none of us will likely know the details of.

[scott herbertson]

28 minutes ago, Dia Liom said:

Seems mad to speculate on the talks between Irving and the club - he hates Neilson?? he thinks he's bigger than HMFC?? wtf.  He is very talented young player with an awful lot to improve on.  There are a few interesting questions.

 

What place is Irving being given for next season?  I would be very surprised if RN had told Irving anything other than, 'you'll be in the squad and will have to fight for a starting place'.  If we recruit well and bring in a top class CM, Irving will have to bide his time, and rightfully so imo.

 

Where does he see as being better for his progression?  Surely some scottish prem teams have looked at him, which might work if he fancies a better chance of starting, at ross county, say, or just a fresh start - aberdeen/st johnstone?  Maybe he wants to go down south - it'd be interesting to see what level.  Or go to europe/US.  

 

Curious to see how it unfolds.  My preference would be to keep him here, but obv lots of factors which none of us will likely know the details of.

 

 

Good summary but you have left out one option for him - he may get offers from 'bigger' clubs (old firm, english 1st division, abroad)  who may offer him more money but no guarantees on starting place. Difficult choice for him if so as those deals can mean reserve football, sitting on the bench or getting loaned out, but more cash

 

 

[Last Laff]

I'm going to predict he will stay in Scotland and the hold up will be the development fee with some compromise in terms of sell on percentage with the likes of Dundee or St Johnstone. 

[Dia Liom]

4 minutes ago, scott herbertson said:

 

 

Good summary but you have left out one option for him - he may get offers from 'bigger' clubs (old firm, english 1st division, abroad)  who may offer him more money but no guarantees on starting place. Difficult choice for him if so as those deals can mean reserve football, sitting on the bench or getting loaned out, but more cash

 

 

 

To be honest, Aberdeen and St J would be a step up from us at this very moment.  Though I expect us to give both a good run for their money this season.  Old firm or a champ team crossed my mind but if money alone is motivating him then he'd be making a bad choice I feel.  If he sticks with us and has a good few seasons he'd be primed for a big move. 

[scott herbertson]

Just now, Dia Liom said:

 

To be honest, Aberdeen and St J would be a step up from us at this very moment.  Though I expect us to give both a good run for their money this season.  Old firm or a champ team crossed my mind but if money alone is motivating him then he'd be making a bad choice I feel.  If he sticks with us and has a good few seasons he'd be primed for a big move. 

 

 

I agree they would be a bad choice - just think some team with plenty money will look at him as worth a punt - buy a few players like Irving on the basis that one or two of them will come good and if not you just loan them out

[Last Laff]

2 minutes ago, Dia Liom said:

 

To be honest, Aberdeen and St J would be a step up from us at this very moment.  Though I expect us to give both a good run for their money this season.  Old firm or a champ team crossed my mind but if money alone is motivating him then he'd be making a bad choice I feel.  If he sticks with us and has a good few seasons he'd be primed for a big move. 

 

I don't think we would negotiate with Aberdeen or Hibs tbh. 

[Last Laff]

Just now, scott herbertson said:

 

 

I agree they would be a bad choice - just think some team with plenty money will look at him as worth a punt - buy a few players like Irving on the basis that one or two of them will come good and if not you just loan them out

Aye Peterborough or someone like that. 

[davemclaren]

I’m amazed anyone would think that the gruesome twosome would be interested. 🤷‍♂️

[Last Laff]

13 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

I’m amazed anyone would think that the gruesome twosome would be interested. 🤷‍♂️

Pick up cheap, loan down South, sell on for profit....

[Dia Liom]

1 hour ago, Last Laff said:

 

I don't think we would negotiate with Aberdeen or Hibs tbh. 

Would we have a choice if he wanted to make the move?  Genuine question as I'm not sure how the development fee works.  I'm hearing ross is sniffing about for a few centre mids to bolster his squad of centre mids.

[davemclaren]

22 minutes ago, Last Laff said:

Pick up cheap, loan down South, sell on for profit....

Can’t see it personally. 

[Last Laff]

2 minutes ago, Dia Liom said:

Would we have a choice if he wanted to make the move?  Genuine question as I'm not sure how the development fee works.  I'm hearing ross is sniffing about for a few centre mids to bolster his squad of centre mids.

 

Yes.

 

It depends on where he moves to of course but the level he's at just now perhaps clubs won't be able to afford the development fee and instead negotiate future clauses with the club.  It's how McGinn ended up in Leith. 

[Last Laff]

Just now, davemclaren said:

Can’t see it personally. 

Rangers made £1m on Greg Docherty last year.

[Saint Jambo]

11 minutes ago, Dia Liom said:

Would we have a choice if he wanted to make the move?  Genuine question as I'm not sure how the development fee works.  I'm hearing ross is sniffing about for a few centre mids to bolster his squad of centre mids.

 

I assume he means we would demand the full development fee we are entitled to if he signs for Hibs or Aberdeen. If it turns out his only option is someone like Hamilton then we'd maybe eventually be willing to negotiate a reduced fee in exchange for a sell on percentage of any future fee.

[jambonian]

So many reasons why Irving might not have signed. 

Does he think he is stagnating and could improve by leaving? Perhaps aware that not many improve by staying at Hearts?

Does he think that he's better than he is?

Is his agent blowing smoke up his arse telling him how brilliant he is and looking to get as much cash as he can for himself (or even Irving)?

Does he like or dislike the way the players are coached at Hearts? Does he even like/dislike Neilson?

Is the offer he's been given way below what he was expecting?

Is he expecting to be a first choice next season and Neilson isn't guaranteeing that? 

For me, Irving is easily replaceable if Neilson just wants someone who's happy to play without a specific role in the team, a "filler" if you like and just play wherever. If he was a specific type of midfielder, a Cameron. Hartley type attacker, a Mackay, Fulton passer type or a Berry, Brellier defensive type then with a specific role, you know what you're going to get. These types are harder to replace but a "filler" isn't. I'm not even sure Neilson can work out Irving's best position. 

For me, take the compo and run. It could be better used. Irving will rise or fall by his decision and as i see him as quite replaceable, it would not surprise me if he's hanging about Raith or Falkirk type clubs within two years.

 

 

Edited June 19, 2021 by jambonian

[Dia Liom]

19 minutes ago, Last Laff said:

 

Yes.

 

It depends on where he moves to of course but the level he's at just now perhaps clubs won't be able to afford the development fee and instead negotiate future clauses with the club.  It's how McGinn ended up in Leith. 

 

8 minutes ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

I assume he means we would demand the full development fee we are entitled to if he signs for Hibs or Aberdeen. If it turns out his only option is someone like Hamilton then we'd maybe eventually be willing to negotiate a reduced fee in exchange for a sell on percentage of any future fee.

Thanks.

[alwaysthereinspirit]

On 18/06/2021 at 09:59, Phil D. Corners said:

Maybe not a bigger club, but the experience of living abroad and playing first team football would be better then the Hearts bench. 

The living abroad bit I’ll give you. First team football for say a team from Vietnam not so much. It then becomes about the money.

[alwaysthereinspirit]

9 hours ago, OTT said:

I'd love to know what he wants vs what we've offered. 

 

Can be fairly confident it won't be as much as Martin, Osh or Damour. 

 

I'd be tempted to say, give the boy as close to what he wants as we can manage on a 2 year deal with an option of a 3rd. If he doesn't live up to the hype, then we're done and dusted in 2 years. If he does, trigger the extension and sell him. 

 

I do wonder if he's pricing himself out because he doesn't rate Neilson as a coach though..

Nicely done with the Neilson name drop. Desperate times call for desperate measures. 

[sadj]

24 minutes ago, alwaysthereinspirit said:

Nicely done with the Neilson name drop. Desperate times call for desperate measures. 

****ing mental isnt it. Neilson is shite , Neilson cant improve players , Neilson hates anyone under 30 , Hearts are shit , Hearts cant improve anyone , Hearts are doomed , Hearts cant survive financially as our turnover is poor. Blah blah blah , **** off you absolute tosspots

[jr ewing]

29 minutes ago, alwaysthereinspirit said:

Nicely done with the Neilson name drop. Desperate times call for desperate measures. 

Used to be called a clash of personalities. 

[DH1986]

5 hours ago, Last Laff said:

Rangers made £1m on Greg Docherty last year.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11714/12053127/greg-docherty-hull-sign-midfielder-from-rangers-on-three-year-deal
 

Or around £400,000……..

 

Which is less than they paid btw.

Edited June 19, 2021 by DH1986

[OTT]

3 hours ago, alwaysthereinspirit said:

Nicely done with the Neilson name drop. Desperate times call for desperate measures. 

I watched the same football as you last season, the same football which led to complaints around the players looking clueless, like they didn’t understand their instructions and beyond that it was a turgid, slow, boring and ponderous. 
 

If Neilsons a great manager then brilliant, we’ll see it in action next season but I have my doubts around his ability to push on young talent. 
 

I want to be wrong btw. But I’m not seeing it. Thankfully he’ll have next season to get it right ****ing up arseholes like me that doubted him. So let’s see what happens. 

[jambocub]

12 hours ago, Newton51 said:

Contract has expired now. Maybe we are negotiating the development fee otherwise why have we not announced he has left

Probably the same reason he's not announced who he's signed for 

[Last Laff]

3 hours ago, DH1986 said:

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11714/12053127/greg-docherty-hull-sign-midfielder-from-rangers-on-three-year-deal
 

Or around £400,000……..

 

Which is less than they paid btw.

 

Sky's guessed that. 

[DH1986]

24 minutes ago, Last Laff said:

 

Sky's guessed that. 

Ok…………

[DH1986]

https://news.stv.tv/sport/rangers-sell-midfielder-greg-docherty-to-hull-city?top

[Stendelnator]

Just now, DH1986 said:

https://news.stv.tv/sport/rangers-sell-midfielder-greg-docherty-to-hull-city?top

STV’s guessed that. 
 

Apparently 

[DH1986]

1 minute ago, Stendelnator said:

STV’s guessed that. 
 

Apparently 

Seems so.

 

Sky and STV really need to start checking JKB for the true transfers fees on these deals.

 

 

[Last Laff]

5 minutes ago, Stendelnator said:

STV’s guessed that. 
 

Apparently 

 

£650k add ons.  I win m8.

 

£450-£600k more than they paid for him also.    

 

Irvings development fee, £200k Max, peanuts to the old firm when loaning and selling. 

[DH1986]

3 minutes ago, Last Laff said:

 

£650k add ons.  I win m8.

 

£450-£600k more than they paid for him also.    

 

Irvings development fee, £200k Max, peanuts to the old firm when loaning and selling. 

😂

[buzzbomb]

.

Edited June 20, 2021 by buzzbomb

[Bazzas right boot]

13 hours ago, OTT said:

I watched the same football as you last season, the same football which led to complaints around the players looking clueless, like they didn’t understand their instructions and beyond that it was a turgid, slow, boring and ponderous. 
 

If Neilsons a great manager then brilliant, we’ll see it in action next season but I have my doubts around his ability to push on young talent. 
 

I want to be wrong btw. But I’m not seeing it. Thankfully he’ll have next season to get it right ****ing up arseholes like me that doubted him. So let’s see what happens. 

 

Turgid, slow, boring ponderous..... With players that didn't understand what they were doing 

Yet, Won the league at a canter with best gd and goals scored. 

 

I don't think anyone is saying or expecting Robbie to be a "great" manager either next season. 

If we sacked every manager for not being great we'd be setting ourselves up for failure at every appointment. 

 

It's good at least you want to be provan wrong tho, I fear many on here don't. 

 

 

[The Goalscoring Knee]

2 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

you want to be provan

Don't drag that slavering balloon into the conversation 😄

[martoon]

2 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Turgid, slow, boring ponderous..... With players that didn't understand what they were doing 

Yet, Won the league at a canter with best gd and goals scored. 

 

I don't think anyone is saying or expecting Robbie to be a "great" manager either next season. 

If we sacked every manager for not being great we'd be setting ourselves up for failure at every appointment. 

 

It's good at least you want to be provan wrong tho, I fear many on here don't. 

 

 

 

Many of our performances were turgid, slow, ponderous and boring. You're surely not claiming otherwise?

 

Neilson isn't a great manager so why do we still have him? There's far better out there within our budget but here we are, going forward, with a bloke who's responsible for our dismal performances, tactics and awful Cup defeats.

 

That's the frustration. All the potential and finance that could make Hearts a force is being squandered on a manager who "isn't great".

 

What a way to run a football club.

[alwaysthereinspirit]

14 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

Many of our performances were turgid, slow, ponderous and boring. You're surely not claiming otherwise?

 

Neilson isn't a great manager so why do we still have him? There's far better out there within our budget but here we are, going forward, with a bloke who's responsible for our dismal performances, tactics and awful Cup defeats.

 

That's the frustration. All the potential and finance that could make Hearts a force is being squandered on a manager who "isn't great".

 

What a way to run a football club.

Name the “great” managers we could hire.

You have to also guarantee that they’ll do better than Neilson and make us a force.

That way we can all discuss them rather than you keeping the names to yourself.
 

[Last Laff]

1 minute ago, alwaysthereinspirit said:

Name the “great” managers we could hire.

You have to also guarantee that they’ll do better than Neilson and make us a force.

That way we can all discuss them rather than you keeping the names to yourself.
 

Callum Davidson.  Derek McInness, Alex Neil, The Broara manager. 

[Bazzas right boot]

21 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

Many of our performances were turgid, slow, ponderous and boring. You're surely not claiming otherwise?

 

Neilson isn't a great manager so why do we still have him? There's far better out there within our budget but here we are, going forward, with a bloke who's responsible for our dismal performances, tactics and awful Cup defeats.

 

That's the frustration. All the potential and finance that could make Hearts a force is being squandered on a manager who "isn't great".

 

What a way to run a football club.

 

Slow, turgid, ponderous-pissed the league. 

 

Who can you guarantee that will do better than Robbie? 

 

[Des Lynam]

23 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

Many of our performances were turgid, slow, ponderous and boring. You're surely not claiming otherwise?

 

Neilson isn't a great manager so why do we still have him? There's far better out there within our budget but here we are, going forward, with a bloke who's responsible for our dismal performances, tactics and awful Cup defeats.

 

That's the frustration. All the potential and finance that could make Hearts a force is being squandered on a manager who "isn't great".

 

What a way to run a football club.

 

[Tasavallan]

27 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

Many of our performances were turgid, slow, ponderous and boring. You're surely not claiming otherwise?

 

Neilson isn't a great manager so why do we still have him? There's far better out there within our budget but here we are, going forward, with a bloke who's responsible for our dismal performances, tactics and awful Cup defeats.

 

That's the frustration. All the potential and finance that could make Hearts a force is being squandered on a manager who "isn't great".

 

What a way to run a football club.

CHARISMA.   Neilson lacks it and his negative attitude may bring him success but it is not what the fans want to see.  On budget alone Hearts should be alongside Aberdeen and the Vermin fighting for 3rd place and Europe. I doubt even top six finish.

 

SHEESH!

[martoon]

11 minutes ago, alwaysthereinspirit said:

Name the “great” managers we could hire.

You have to also guarantee that they’ll do better than Neilson and make us a force.

That way we can all discuss them rather than you keeping the names to yourself.
 

 

Not my job to source managers/head coaches. It's a task for the decision maker(s) at Hearts and they’ve been failing us for years now. 

 

The best we could get was not just along the corridor in 2017 or at Tannadice last year.

[mitch41]

3 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Turgid, slow, boring ponderous..... With players that didn't understand what they were doing 

Yet, Won the league at a canter with best gd and goals scored. 

 

I don't think anyone is saying or expecting Robbie to be a "great" manager either next season. 

If we sacked every manager for not being great we'd be setting ourselves up for failure at every appointment. 

 

It's good at least you want to be provan wrong tho, I fear many on here don't. 

 

 

Eh what League did we win, oh aye the Championship and how did we do in the 2 Cup competitions, oh aye we were humped by Alloa and the mighty Brora Rangers. I mean these milkmen, postmen, butchers and candlestick makers are fantastic players and it was no shame to lose to that team managed by a real good manager. This coming season we’ll have to watch out for Dundee as they finished second in that difficult Championship last season. You know we’ll be lucky to hold on to Neilson as I’m sure there must be lots of top clubs looking to employ him.

Edited June 20, 2021 by mitch41

[martoon]

20 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Slow, turgid, ponderous-pissed the league. 

 

Who can you guarantee that will do better than Robbie? 

 

 

Only guarantee I can give with any certainty is that I'd be looking forward to next season a lot more if we replaced Robbie with better.

 

@Last Laffhas provided some who are better than what we currently have and there will be many that neither he nor I will be aware of.

 

All it takes is to look a lot further than down a corridor or to the end of her nose at a former employee just up the road in Dundee.

[JimmyCant]

1 hour ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Slow, turgid, ponderous-pissed the league. 

 

Who can you guarantee that will do better than Robbie? 

 

He has managed for less than a year and a half in the top league. Five years ago now and barely relevant in terms of today’s team and today’s league. Whilst overall he was a success, there were some pretty scary one off results in big games and plenty of insipid performances.

 

Its surely not a stretch to think we could get a better manager. I can’t think of one that comes with guarantees but then neither does the one we decided to keep faith with, much against the vast majority of fans wishes I might add.

Edited June 20, 2021 by JimmyCant

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, martoon said:

 

Only guarantee I can give with any certainty is that I'd be looking forward to next season a lot more if we replaced Robbie with better.

 

@Last Laffhas provided some who are better than what we currently have and there will be many that neither he nor I will be aware of.

 

All it takes is to look a lot further than down a corridor or to the end of her nose at a former employee just up the road in Dundee.

 

 

I want none on his list. 

That would not excite me. 

The fact is no one can guarantee to be better than Robbie, especially given his league record with us. 

He was also 2 penalties from the sc. 

 

He's also our manager so rather than pine for other failed managers from other clubs or this season's flavour of the month I'll get behind him and look forward to the season. 

 

You can continue and not look forward, but that's your problem. 

 

[sandylejambo]

1 hour ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Slow, turgid, ponderous-pissed the league. 

 

Who can you guarantee that will do better than Robbie? 

 

my sister could have won that league with those players and she's not been to a game since 73. if you didn't see some of the worst football ever by a Hearts team you were not watching. Won the league with players who should have went undefeated in that shitty league and not put out of cups by part time piss, you are in denial and as his cheerleader we can only assume your related to him. that would explain the mind set.

[Jeffros Furios]

31 minutes ago, sandylejambo said:

my sister could have won that league with those players and she's not been to a game since 73. if you didn't see some of the worst football ever by a Hearts team you were not watching. Won the league with players who should have went undefeated in that shitty league and not put out of cups by part time piss, you are in denial and as his cheerleader we can only assume your related to him. that would explain the mind set.

The guy is Hibs , vermin are best ignored ! 

[Last Laff]

36 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

I want none on his list. 

That would not excite me. 

The fact is no one can guarantee to be better than Robbie, especially given his league record with us. 

He was also 2 penalties from the sc. 

 

He's also our manager so rather than pine for other failed managers from other clubs or this season's flavour of the month I'll get behind him and look forward to the season. 

 

You can continue and not look forward, but that's your problem. 

 

 

Yet RN does like?  

 

Alex Neil or Robbie?  Seriously?   

[sadj]

38 minutes ago, sandylejambo said:

my sister could have won that league with those players and she's not been to a game since 73. if you didn't see some of the worst football ever by a Hearts team you were not watching. Won the league with players who should have went undefeated in that shitty league and not put out of cups by part time piss, you are in denial and as his cheerleader we can only assume your related to him. that would explain the mind set.

 

If you havent seen worse performances between 73 and this season you def havent been watching.

 

Undefeated 🙈 Jesus ****

 

Anyway all the usual sad shite aside. How has an Irving thread become a Neilson is shit , Hearts are shit , Derek McInnes is a better manager thread.

 

Anyone got any update on the sctual topic of the thread , Irving and what hes doing? I read hes at preseason training with us. Does he have a squad number as they’ll have been handed out too