Tatlock Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 5 hours ago, wavydavy said: I hardly think he is on or will be offered a top end wage which is probably why he has not signed the contract we have allegedly offered him. I still think he could do a job for us with the right type of players around him. The biggest problem we have is lack of movement for him to play the pass which he can do if we have the runners. As long as nobody stands next to his left foot he can make the pass, but have you watched how difficult he finds it to use his right foot? That’s why He only plays sideway or back so as he gets deeper the forwards come closer to him losing any potential forward move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 3 minutes ago, Tatlock said: As long as nobody stands next to his left foot he can make the pass, but have you watched how difficult he finds it to use his right foot? That’s why He only plays sideway or back so as he gets deeper the forwards come closer to him losing any potential forward move. I must watch him on his good days then because I have seen him use his right. There are many others in the team who also favour one foot and rarely pass with their weaker. Having said that why are younger players not coached during their development to be capable of using both feet and encouraged to do so when they play in games by the coaches.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 Still rather keep him because 1. He's an academy lad and a PHM. 2. He's still only 20. 3. He has talent and ability. He needs better coaching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maple Leaf Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 25 minutes ago, Cruyff said: Still rather keep him because 1. He's an academy lad and a PHM. 2. He's still only 20. 3. He has talent and ability. He needs better coaching. I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 On 05/04/2021 at 13:17, A_A wehatethehibs said: The lads mentally just completely let his concentration and performance levels drop off a cliff after not getting as much £ money as he demanded. Completely cracked mentally and allowed it to distract him. Would think any future employers will look closely at that because it will happen again. Good luck to him at his next club. Get rid then. Shocking attitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armageddon Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 I bet Irving amounts to feck all, the boy thought he was Pirlo for a few weeks and his bottle has smashed, he cannot hack it at the Championship level. Laughable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
credit card Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 Only three good games this season makes him two games better than the rest. Not good enough. Let him run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samgolden Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 6 hours ago, wavydavy said: I must watch him on his good days then because I have seen him use his right. There are many others in the team who also favour one foot and rarely pass with their weaker. Having said that why are younger players not coached during their development to be capable of using both feet and encouraged to do so when they play in games by the coaches.? Because Coaches don’t play Left/right Wingers on their natural side they are encouraged to cut inside on natural foot on opposite side of pitch when did you ever see an old fashion winger playing on his natural side hitting the byline and getting in behind the defence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 10 minutes ago, samgolden said: Because Coaches don’t play Left/right Wingers on their natural side they are encouraged to cut inside on natural foot on opposite side of pitch when did you ever see an old fashion winger playing on his natural side hitting the byline and getting in behind the defence I get your point but they should still encourage players to use both feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musemic Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 On 05/04/2021 at 14:50, alwaysthereinspirit said: Your right about us possibly finding out stuff after the fact. Fans would love to know exact numbers from the beginning but it’s just not possible. It wouldn’t even be fair on the player or club if contract numbers were released to the public. I’ve said on this thread before that Irving would only have an issue with Hearts if he was on a 1000 a week and we offered 1100. If he’s on a 1000 and we offered 2000 then he has no gripe. Who wouldn’t want a 100% pay raise. If he’s on 1000 now and wants 3000 then there’s an issue. So many fans just want teams to pay what ever their favorite player wants. It’s just not doable. Imagine Spurs fan losing it if Kane left because Spurs wouldn’t give him 500,000 a week. “It’s not our money, we don’t care. Give him what he wants” If Irving has a career injury 3 he’ll have at least 3 more contracts after this one. Hearts can’t break the bank for this kid based on form this season. He should have been bossing games in this league if he’s as good as he thinks. And I don’t know that he does think he’s that good. He may be the nicest unassuming kid around the club. What you appear to be saying is that, in your opinion, he would have an issue with Hearts if he was only offered a 10% wage rise (taking his annual salary up to £57k+). This at a time when there are no fans in the ground, many thousands of folk are living hand to mouth and the nurses (average wage around £25k) in the Scottish NHS have been offered what is considered a generous rise of 4%. Any Hearts player expecting a rise after this season's performances needs to return to the real world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwaysthereinspirit Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 50 minutes ago, Musemic said: What you appear to be saying is that, in your opinion, he would have an issue with Hearts if he was only offered a 10% wage rise (taking his annual salary up to £57k+). This at a time when there are no fans in the ground, many thousands of folk are living hand to mouth and the nurses (average wage around £25k) in the Scottish NHS have been offered what is considered a generous rise of 4%. Any Hearts player expecting a rise after this season's performances needs to return to the real world. I was really just picking numbers that would be easy to understand. As I said I have no idea what he’s on, what he wants or what Hearts think he’s worth. I think it’s most likely though that if he does sign back up with us he’ll get more than a 10% raise. Footballers are a different animal compared to yesteryear. My Dad knew Pat Stanton back when they were kids. My Dad told me a story years back about Stanton making 10 times what my Dad made as a train driver. Something like 10 pounds to a hundred pounds. Now average footballers make the same a week as nurses make a year. We lost the plot somewhere with regards to football player salaries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.T.F.Robertson Posted April 7, 2021 Share Posted April 7, 2021 3 hours ago, wavydavy said: I get your point but they should still encourage players to use both feet. Not disagreeing with your point, but even I made my own conscious decision to practice with my left though I was naturally right footed. HTF any professional uses one leg only for balance beats me. I actually became more proficient in some situations with my left than my "natural". (was still shite though) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batistuta87 Posted April 7, 2021 Share Posted April 7, 2021 4 hours ago, alwaysthereinspirit said: I was really just picking numbers that would be easy to understand. As I said I have no idea what he’s on, what he wants or what Hearts think he’s worth. I think it’s most likely though that if he does sign back up with us he’ll get more than a 10% raise. Footballers are a different animal compared to yesteryear. My Dad knew Pat Stanton back when they were kids. My Dad told me a story years back about Stanton making 10 times what my Dad made as a train driver. Something like 10 pounds to a hundred pounds. Now average footballers make the same a week as nurses make a year. We lost the plot somewhere with regards to football player salaries. Have heard that he's on a very precise £890 p/w. Our Academy lads are meant to be on an again very precise £445 p/w so at some point he's had his salary doubled. Could be that he's asking for that to happen again in which case I'd say that's too much and honestly don't feel like he's earned it. I very much doubt he'll find another club willing to pay him that amount to be honest. Not if they've been watching him this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted April 7, 2021 Share Posted April 7, 2021 6 hours ago, J.T.F.Robertson said: Not disagreeing with your point, but even I made my own conscious decision to practice with my left though I was naturally right footed. HTF any professional uses one leg only for balance beats me. I actually became more proficient in some situations with my left than my "natural". (was still shite though) When I was a kid and this was in the days when a football had laces and got really heavy in the wet I used to play with a soft "gym shoe" (no trainers in those days) on my stronger foot at the request of my Football Coach who was a female schoolteacher incidentally. Her theory was that with the ball being more difficult to kick with my favoured right foot it would encourage me to use my left which I had a proper football boot on. Made me run a bit lopsided mind you but I did use my left much more as a result. I also used to practice on my own using my left foot only. It seems gone are the days where players stay behind and work on their weaknesses on their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greedy Jambo Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 Still not signed the contract we've offered him. Laughable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazajmbo Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 24 minutes ago, Greedy Jambo said: Still not signed the contract we've offered him. Laughable. Would you want to sign a deal with a pay rise of £150 per week to your youth contract.? Can you sit and watch the likes of Whelan, Damour, Anderson, Tzoilis, Martin get paid literally 5-8 times your weekly wage while you're the one playing regularly. His agent has also filled his head with big value contracts with clubs worldwide. He was regularly told and made sit on the bench to aid his "development". Robbie has made some public digs at him despite the fact he has probably been the best player in midfield for the last 2 or more years. What is the best option if that is the "best " the club can offer? 1k a week. The potential is massive, playing week in week out is the best way to develop. I would be very keen on moving on if that's how i was being treated. He lost his place to andy halliday who was largely disappointing for weeks but still in the starting 11. I've always been critical of us releasing players who have a future, but forget them, I am sure that Andy Irving will be the most successful one of them all in the future. Yet another "academy graduate project." Youth - first team - sellable asset". It is just incredible how many times we do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Treasurer Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 3 minutes ago, dazajmbo said: Would you want to sign a deal with a pay rise of £150 per week to your youth contract.? Can you sit and watch the likes of Whelan, Damour, Anderson, Tzoilis, Martin get paid literally 5-8 times your weekly wage while you're the one playing regularly. His agent has also filled his head with big value contracts with clubs worldwide. He was regularly told and made sit on the bench to aid his "development". Robbie has made some public digs at him despite the fact he has probably been the best player in midfield for the last 2 or more years. What is the best option if that is the "best " the club can offer? 1k a week. The potential is massive, playing week in week out is the best way to develop. I would be very keen on moving on if that's how i was being treated. He lost his place to andy halliday who was largely disappointing for weeks but still in the starting 11. I've always been critical of us releasing players who have a future, but forget them, I am sure that Andy Irving will be the most successful one of them all in the future. Yet another "academy graduate project." Youth - first team - sellable asset". It is just incredible how many times we do this. Curious to know how you come up with a figure of £1k per week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greedy Jambo Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 It's laughable whatever way you look at it. Laughable if we can't give him what he's worth Laughable if we can't keep the only youth player that has managed a decent run of first team games And laughable if he's wanting to leave. Hearts come off the worst, either way. imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Jambo Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 14 minutes ago, The Treasurer said: Curious to know how you come up with a figure of £1k per week I’d be sacking some people if information like that was coming out from an internal source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Sanchez Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 He's shite. The fact he's regarded as our best midfielder and the only one who can play a forward pass just shows how far we've fallen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost in space Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 Better for the player to move on. He will not develop at Hearts under present coaching staff. He needs to improve his fitness and pace and be given the opportunity to get further forward - so that he can hurt opposition with his passing. I think he will be a very good player if developed. I don't think our coaches know what to do with him or where to play him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydug Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 10 minutes ago, Greedy Jambo said: It's laughable whatever way you look at it. Laughable if we can't give him what he's worth Laughable if we can't keep the only youth player that has managed a decent run of first team games And laughable if he's wanting to leave. Hearts come off the worst, either way. imo. Dont get the Irving love in at all. Just another excuse to post rubbish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 24 minutes ago, dazajmbo said: Would you want to sign a deal with a pay rise of £150 per week to your youth contract.? Can you sit and watch the likes of Whelan, Damour, Anderson, Tzoilis, Martin get paid literally 5-8 times your weekly wage while you're the one playing regularly. His agent has also filled his head with big value contracts with clubs worldwide. He was regularly told and made sit on the bench to aid his "development". Robbie has made some public digs at him despite the fact he has probably been the best player in midfield for the last 2 or more years. What is the best option if that is the "best " the club can offer? 1k a week. The potential is massive, playing week in week out is the best way to develop. I would be very keen on moving on if that's how i was being treated. He lost his place to andy halliday who was largely disappointing for weeks but still in the starting 11. I've always been critical of us releasing players who have a future, but forget them, I am sure that Andy Irving will be the most successful one of them all in the future. Yet another "academy graduate project." Youth - first team - sellable asset". It is just incredible how many times we do this. Yep. Investment in the academy should not stop when they reach the first team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greedy Jambo Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 1 minute ago, luckydug said: Dont get the Irving love in at all. Just another excuse to post rubbish. Just to be clear, I think he's average, but has shown signs of potential. My point is, He's the best we've got in that age bracket and he doesn't want to stay, for whatever reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, luckydug said: Dont get the Irving love in at all. Just another excuse to post rubbish. Is 21 years old and a regular first team player last season. If the club rates him enough to play him then it needs to pay him a fair wage relative to the rest of the squad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfhearts Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 7 minutes ago, Zen Jambo said: I’d be sacking some people if information like that was coming out from an internal source. Agreed but a lot he comes out with is keek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Treasurer Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 6 minutes ago, Zen Jambo said: I’d be sacking some people if information like that was coming out from an internal source. Always amazes me how many people on here "know" the details of players contracts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greedy Jambo Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 The club obviously want to keep him, they've admitted that they've offered him a contract and are waiting on his response. They've been waiting about a year now! Laughable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydug Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 Just now, Greedy Jambo said: The club obviously want to keep him, they've admitted that they've offered him a contract and are waiting on his response. They've been waiting about a year now! Laughable. Could it not just be that the club have to offer a contract to qualify for a development fee ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homme Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 (edited) 1 minute ago, luckydug said: Could it not just be that the club have to offer a contract to qualify for a development fee ? Exactly it IMO. Token pay rise to trigger a fee if he leaves. Seems we ain't that fussed on keeping him, which I'm fine with tbh. Edited June 9, 2021 by Homme Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1971fozzy Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 16 minutes ago, lost in space said: Better for the player to move on. He will not develop at Hearts under present coaching staff. He needs to improve his fitness and pace and be given the opportunity to get further forward - so that he can hurt opposition with his passing. I think he will be a very good player if developed. I don't think our coaches know what to do with him or where to play him. pretty much what I think as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 1 minute ago, luckydug said: Could it not just be that the club have to offer a contract to qualify for a development fee ? That is correct. Contract must be at least as good as the last one. Who knows - but everything suggests we want him to stay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 10 minutes ago, The Treasurer said: Always amazes me how many people on here "know" the details of players contracts Quite easy to call them out. They should be able to post details to prove they know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greedy Jambo Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, luckydug said: Could it not just be that the club have to offer a contract to qualify for a development fee ? I wouldn't know about that, but if that's the case, why did Ann mention (only recently) that he had been offered a contract? Just to keep the fans happy? It's not like she's got form for trying to keep the fans happy. Edited June 9, 2021 by Greedy Jambo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie Wanshot. Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 If he was a true Jambo he would have signed by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homme Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, Greedy Jambo said: I wouldn't know about that, but it that's the case, why did Ann mention (only recently) that he had been offered a contract? Just to keep the fans happy? Well it'd be the truth wouldn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greedy Jambo Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Homme said: Well it'd be the truth wouldn't it? So you believe that he was offered a contract purely for us to qualify for a development fee? While playing him in a shit load of games? haha. Conspiracy theory and a half. Edited June 9, 2021 by Greedy Jambo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwidoug Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 Souttar signing an extension is a higher priority for me but I'd obviously like both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greedy Jambo Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 3 minutes ago, Kiwidoug said: Souttar signing an extension is a higher priority for me but I'd obviously like both. Money for Souttar would be better business imo. He's injury prone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DH1986 Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 I love ITK bullshit……. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan Hunt Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 49 minutes ago, The Treasurer said: Curious to know how you come up with a figure of £1k per week The guy is a fantasist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homme Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 21 minutes ago, Greedy Jambo said: So you believe that he was offered a contract purely for us to qualify for a development fee? While playing him in a shit load of games? haha. Conspiracy theory and a half. It's not really far fetched! It's a clever bit of business offering him that contract. We played lots of players last year knowing they wouldn't be here beyond the summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greedy Jambo Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 3 minutes ago, Homme said: It's not really far fetched! It's a clever bit of business offering him that contract. We played lots of players last year knowing they wouldn't be here beyond the summer. We must have a load of youngsters ready to take the step up to the premiership then. I look forward to seeing them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 1 minute ago, Greedy Jambo said: We must have a load of youngsters ready to take the step up to the premiership then. I look forward to seeing them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martoon Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 Meh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homme Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 3 minutes ago, Greedy Jambo said: We must have a load of youngsters ready to take the step up to the premiership then. I look forward to seeing them. I have no idea what you're talking about 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greedy Jambo Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 1 minute ago, Homme said: I have no idea what you're talking about 😂 WTF, I'm not Robbie Neilson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japan Jambo Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Nookie Bear said: Is 21 years old and a regular first team player last season. If the club rates him enough to play him then it needs to pay him a fair wage relative to the rest of the squad. not quite, we need to pay him a fair wage relative to the market. the fact that we've dished out contracts previously with all the restraint of a drunk in a whorehouse is a paradigm we need to move forward from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 Just now, Japan Jambo said: not quite, we need to pay him a fair wage relative to the market. the fact that we've dished out contracts previously with all the restraint of a drunk in a whorehouse is a paradigm we need to move forward from. Well that’s not Irving’s fault so he is right to move on. Meanwhile we need to recruit a centre midfielder who can settle in and hit the ground running. I bet you it costs more to recruit a similar level player than to keep Irving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenNaismith Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 He’s been offered a lot more than an extra £150 a week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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