*** the official Heart of Midlothian v Dundee (the Judas *****) ***

[1874robbo]

2 minutes ago, sadj said:

Quite possibly. Footballers = ego trips on legs at times. Its managing them. Maybe Crawford and Neilson had a better balance as a team than Elbows and Neilson do. Maybe the lads were younger so were more willing to listen , I know what Robbie wants and expects from the team. There is no way he will accept that performance yesterday and tell them in private its ok it was the refs fault 👍🏻

Well let’s hope we start seeing a team that can be on the front foot from the first whistle home and away, and also a few decent players coming in so we can drop some of the non triers.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

2 minutes ago, sadj said:

Quite possibly. Footballers = ego trips on legs at times. Its managing them. Maybe Crawford and Neilson had a better balance as a team than Elbows and Neilson do. Maybe the lads were younger so were more willing to listen , I know what Robbie wants and expects from the team. There is no way he will accept that performance yesterday and tell them in private its ok it was the refs fault 👍🏻

That’s really funny because loads of apologists on here were trying to talk about Elbows, even though his performance at Killie was wank. Same old, same old 

[Gordon Ramsay]

3 hours ago, The Apprentice said:

Having Walker in the team is playing with a man down more often than not. When he first came back I thought he looked decent and as if he had a point to prove before he got injured, but he is the most infuriating player to watch. The only thing he guarantees is giving away needless, niggly fouls throughout a game and you can tell straight away if he’s in the mood for it or not. 

 

I'm absolutely done with him now. All he does is foul. He has no strength, no pace, can't tackle. 

 

His only attribute is shooting but half the time he's too lazy to get himself into that position. 

 

He needs binned. 

[sadj]

6 minutes ago, 1874robbo said:

Well let’s hope we start seeing a team that can be on the front foot from the first whistle home and away, and also a few decent players coming in so we can drop some of the non triers.

 

Agreed

 

5 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

That’s really funny because loads of apologists on here were trying to talk about Elbows, even though his performance at Killie was wank. Same old, same old 

Not seen the comments as regards Elbows , just a thought from watching things and from our performances this time over Robbie’s previous tilt at the Championship with us. 
 

 

Edited January 3, 2021 by sadj

[Gordon Ramsay]

8 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Bollocks. Neilson is as into the excuse culture as everyone else at Hearts. Levein was a specialist at it. Budge is a natural excuse maker too.

 

Everything at Hearts stinks of Levein and Budge. Savage is a welcome appointment but Neilson, Budge and a big group of these players need to go because they’re infecting us with their mediocrity every single day. 
 

We’re a club with no competitive standards, no accountability at the top and no meaningful ambition. If that’s okay with you then fine, just say it. But don’t pretend that Robbie is reading the riot act in the background because I’m telling you now, he ****ing ain’t

 

I find it very hard to believe he's reading the riot act in the background. 

 

We've got the points on the board but I think we can all agree we've played in fits and starts this season. We have little spells in games where it looks like we are half decent but it only ever lasts 15 mins or so. 

 

We should be imposing ourselves on teams, setting the tempo. Last night Dundee did what we should have. Our standards need to be higher. Some of the performances we've served up this season would have seen our arse handed to us in the top league. Even off pish like Kilmarnock and Livi. 

 

Maybe its time Robbie stopped beating about the bush and told the press how pish we were instead of doing it behind the scenes (if he even does that). It might spark them into life. I'm sure grown men can handle some criticism. 

[Tynecastlesmychurch]

17 hours ago, Thomaso said:

How many chance did we have?

Wighton had one, Kingsley and Haring had free headers, Naismith and Henderson had ‘one on ones’ with Jack Hamilton!

And scored precisely none of those chances buddy! Look at the end of the day I’d expect us to be putting a keeper like Hamilton and a defence like Dundee’s under relentless pressure. Something I don’t think we did. However a day after the game I realise I was probably a bit too harsh and I take your point. I hope you understand I was fuming because of who we lost too and just venting. Something I don’t usually do on kickback! 

[One five]

30 minutes ago, Gordon Ramsay said:

 

I'm absolutely done with him now. All he does is foul. He has no strength, no pace, can't tackle. 

 

His only attribute is shooting but half the time he's too lazy to get himself into that position. 

 

He needs binned. 

I agree , we can’t afford to have players that swan about the park , I feel we don’t have enough winners ! Players who give us 100% in every game is what I want . There are some players that do give us that but unfortunately are to slow now , not a good situation imo.

[GinRummy]

2 hours ago, Thomaso said:

So apart from the red card issue there was no big game changer. Blaming the referee for that shambolic performance from our manager and players is nonsense!

I didn’t blame the referee. I said we were shite.  We were shite, just to be clear. 

[Thomaso]

16 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

I didn’t blame the referee. I said we were shite.  We were shite, just to be clear. 

👍

[Ex member of the SaS]

Our problems started when Budge gave them a wage instead of a performance based structure. There is no motivation to train hard or play well when you know you get a huge whack either way.

How many are on contracts that give them good money with no incentive? This structure is fine for players who are injured as they know their income is secure, but does nothing to motivate them to play well. The old win bonus structure is the way to go and it's taken her a while to see this, unfortunately there are too many on the old contract.

Clear out those on this contract and start again, decent basic with bigger win bonuses and give them something to strive for.

[Thomaso]

2 hours ago, sadj said:

You are an obstinate lunatic at times 🤣🤣 No one is blaming the referee for our performance , give it up. People are saying he was awful and had a part to play in the direction of the game. That is not in doubt. Would you rather Robbie threw the players under the bus in public? 

After last nights predictable negative set up in the first half maybe Robbie should think about throwing himself under the bus! 🤔

[Thomaso]

48 minutes ago, Tynecastlesmychurch said:

And scored precisely none of those chances buddy! Look at the end of the day I’d expect us to be putting a keeper like Hamilton and a defence like Dundee’s under relentless pressure. Something I don’t think we did. However a day after the game I realise I was probably a bit too harsh and I take your point. I hope you understand I was fuming because of who we lost too and just venting. Something I don’t usually do on kickback! 

Fair enough.

[Thomaso]

2 hours ago, 1874robbo said:

I would rather he came out and said they were terrible first half and question why we didn’t look up for it telling them that they’re all playing for their places.

if they are too precious to take a bit of criticism (Robbie i include in this also) I suggest they’re in the wrong job.

Well said!

[Ex member of the SaS]

5 hours ago, Thomaso said:

If we start blaming the referee for that shambles we have lost the plot!!

I don't think anyone is blaming the ref BUT he played a part in this shambles. Had he sent of Byrne it puts them on the back foot. Had he then booked Adam for his persistent fouling he would have been much more subdued. The whole dynamic of the game changes when the officials are fair. Many times during the game one of their jumps onto the back of our players when heading a ball, this in any other game would be a foul ( unless the player backs in and refuses to jump ). By allowing them to get away with niggly fouls he set the scene.

Tactics and players not up for the game played a far bigger part in the defeat but to say we should not call out a poor ref just because we were crap is not making excuses or sour grapes. 

[1874robbo]

12 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

I don't think anyone is blaming the ref BUT he played a part in this shambles. Had he sent of Byrne it puts them on the back foot. Had he then booked Adam for his persistent fouling he would have been much more subdued. The whole dynamic of the game changes when the officials are fair. Many times during the game one of their jumps onto the back of our players when heading a ball, this in any other game would be a foul ( unless the player backs in and refuses to jump ). By allowing them to get away with niggly fouls he set the scene.

Tactics and players not up for the game played a far bigger part in the defeat but to say we should not call out a poor ref just because we were crap is not making excuses or sour grapes. 

I assume we will be making an official complaint about that ref?

[Ethan Hunt]

1 hour ago, sadj said:

 

I will tell you now in private they will all be being told that and will have been ripped into. In public nope , dont agree with throwing players under the bus , footballers are footballers and in the public eye but they are no different to you or I. 
 

Do you want your boss to take you outside after your next shift , call a press conference and tell the world you performed absolute shit and deserve to be strung up and/or put in front of a firing squad. What would that achieve apart from belittling you , humiliating you and keeping the odd person whos pissed off at you happy. Will it improve your performance at work? Id suggest the answer is no.

 

You want to hear the right things and that is fair enough but its just not imo the correct way to deal with things. I know how I would react but others wouldn’t and don’t

If the population of Scotland had the ability to watch my next shift on television, and I was piss poor, I’d expect my boss not to blame my piss poor performance on someone else. People who watched the game, then listened  to Neilson, could only assume he was clueless.

 

The perception that saying the team didn’t perform to the standards expected, or desired, is “throwing players under the bus” or “belittling you, or humiliating you” is frankly nonsense. Given you have come out with that nonsense I can only assume you do not manage staff.  There are plenty of ways he could get his message across to the players, and the fans, without “telling the world you performed absolute shit”.

 

No-one is expecting Neilson to hang the players out to dry, but I don’t think an honest appraisal of the game would do that. In a nutshell, we weren’t at it in the first half, we let Dundee set the pace and didn’t match their fight. We lacked in certain areas and we’ll address that. We haven’t given a good account of ourselves and that is not acceptable. We need to reach and maintain the standards that fans of this club expect. Pretty simple really.

 

 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

1 hour ago, Gordon Ramsay said:

 

I find it very hard to believe he's reading the riot act in the background. 

 

We've got the points on the board but I think we can all agree we've played in fits and starts this season. We have little spells in games where it looks like we are half decent but it only ever lasts 15 mins or so. 

 

We should be imposing ourselves on teams, setting the tempo. Last night Dundee did what we should have. Our standards need to be higher. Some of the performances we've served up this season would have seen our arse handed to us in the top league. Even off pish like Kilmarnock and Livi. 

 

Maybe its time Robbie stopped beating about the bush and told the press how pish we were instead of doing it behind the scenes (if he even does that). It might spark them into life. I'm sure grown men can handle some criticism. 

Bottom line is, the Championship could not be weaker than it is this season. We’ve been handed promotion on a plate. Thank Christ there are no decent teams in it.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

40 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

Our problems started when Budge gave them a wage instead of a performance based structure. There is no motivation to train hard or play well when you know you get a huge whack either way.

How many are on contracts that give them good money with no incentive? This structure is fine for players who are injured as they know their income is secure, but does nothing to motivate them to play well. The old win bonus structure is the way to go and it's taken her a while to see this, unfortunately there are too many on the old contract.

Clear out those on this contract and start again, decent basic with bigger win bonuses and give them something to strive for.

Also, get an owner who gives the impression that it actually matters to them. That would help too.

[SectionDJambo]

47 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

Our problems started when Budge gave them a wage instead of a performance based structure. There is no motivation to train hard or play well when you know you get a huge whack either way.

How many are on contracts that give them good money with no incentive? This structure is fine for players who are injured as they know their income is secure, but does nothing to motivate them to play well. The old win bonus structure is the way to go and it's taken her a while to see this, unfortunately there are too many on the old contract.

Clear out those on this contract and start again, decent basic with bigger win bonuses and give them something to strive for.

That was Ann Budge trying to be fair and decent to the players. What she didn't know, and should have been told, is that far too many footballers, certainly in the UK, are only motivated by the money they haven't yet earned, as in win bonuses. They'll do as little as possible to take their wage, unless it is bonus related.

Hearts have reached 2 Scottish Cup finals in a row. I think I'm right in saying they get bonuses for cup progress. Coincidence?

[sadj]

1 hour ago, Thomaso said:

After last nights predictable negative set up in the first half maybe Robbie should think about throwing himself under the bus! 🤔

🤣

38 minutes ago, Ethan Hunt said:

If the population of Scotland had the ability to watch my next shift on television, and I was piss poor, I’d expect my boss not to blame my piss poor performance on someone else. People who watched the game, then listened  to Neilson, could only assume he was clueless.

 

The perception that saying the team didn’t perform to the standards expected, or desired, is “throwing players under the bus” or “belittling you, or humiliating you” is frankly nonsense. Given you have come out with that nonsense I can only assume you do not manage staff.  There are plenty of ways he could get his message across to the players, and the fans, without “telling the world you performed absolute shit”.

 

No-one is expecting Neilson to hang the players out to dry, but I don’t think an honest appraisal of the game would do that. In a nutshell, we weren’t at it in the first half, we let Dundee set the pace and didn’t match their fight. We lacked in certain areas and we’ll address that. We haven’t given a good account of ourselves and that is not acceptable. We need to reach and maintain the standards that fans of this club expect. Pretty simple really.

 

 

Na , iv never managed staff or worked with people. Never played football , etc. Its not nonsense. Its fact that footballers are often egos , you have to manage that. You can deal with them privately , his thoughts he gave to media are not going to be his private thoughts or what he will convey to the players. Simple as that. 

Edited January 3, 2021 by sadj

[BammyCammy]

1 hour ago, Ethan Hunt said:

If the population of Scotland had the ability to watch my next shift on television, and I was piss poor, I’d expect my boss not to blame my piss poor performance on someone else. People who watched the game, then listened  to Neilson, could only assume he was clueless.

 

The perception that saying the team didn’t perform to the standards expected, or desired, is “throwing players under the bus” or “belittling you, or humiliating you” is frankly nonsense. Given you have come out with that nonsense I can only assume you do not manage staff.  There are plenty of ways he could get his message across to the players, and the fans, without “telling the world you performed absolute shit”.

 

No-one is expecting Neilson to hang the players out to dry, but I don’t think an honest appraisal of the game would do that. In a nutshell, we weren’t at it in the first half, we let Dundee set the pace and didn’t match their fight. We lacked in certain areas and we’ll address that. We haven’t given a good account of ourselves and that is not acceptable. We need to reach and maintain the standards that fans of this club expect. Pretty simple really.

 

 

Well said ethan its about time we called out on this squad of bottling bar stewards .its rotten from top to bottom and has been for years too many on here sticking there head up there arses ,frightened of the truth  they are getting paid to keep fit .get them up the Gullane sand dunes or g.t.f

[Ethan Hunt]

1 hour ago, sadj said:

🤣

Na , iv never managed staff or worked with people. Never played football , etc. Its not nonsense. Its fact that footballers are often egos , you have to manage that. You can deal with them privately , his thoughts he gave to media are not going to be his private thoughts or what he will convey to the players. Simple as that. 

Sorry, but too many people get themselves too upset about hearing a wee home truth. It’s a sad reality of today’s world. Hopefully our pay structure is changing. That’ll mean the same ego’s might have to graft a bit harder to get a good wage. They then might have to rely on their peers performing to get a good wage. When that doesn’t happen they then might have to put their fragile wee ego’s to the side and give/take a wee bit criticism.

 

Given the vast majority of this team had us at the bottom of the league when the music stopped they have got off extremely fecking lightly. They would have some brass neck to complain about being held accountable for poor performance given they had nearly two seasons worth of them.

 

Neilson needs to stop sounding like a complete clown in front of the media. 

 

[sadj]

7 minutes ago, Ethan Hunt said:

Sorry, but too many people get themselves too upset about hearing a wee home truth. It’s a sad reality of today’s world. Hopefully our pay structure is changing. That’ll mean the same ego’s might have to graft a bit harder to get a good wage. They then might have to rely on their peers performing to get a good wage. When that doesn’t happen they then might have to put their fragile wee ego’s to the side and give/take a wee bit criticism.

 

Given the vast majority of this team had us at the bottom of the league when the music stopped they have got off extremely fecking lightly. They would have some brass neck to complain about being held accountable for poor performance given they had nearly two seasons worth of them.

 

Neilson needs to stop sounding like a complete clown in front of the media. 

 

I don’t think he sounds like a clown. I just don’t think its particularly relevant to his private thoughts or those within the club. 
 

Agree that the pay structure if as described needs changed. Certainly not been something we were ever lucky enough to have. We had to work for our money. 

[Ethan Hunt]

4 minutes ago, sadj said:

I don’t think he sounds like a clown. I just don’t think its particularly relevant to his private thoughts or those within the club. 
 

Agree that the pay structure if as described needs changed. Certainly not been something we were ever lucky enough to have. We had to work for our money. 

He sounds like a clown when he blames the ref and says we should have won a game that we were clearly were poor in. 

[sadj]

3 minutes ago, Ethan Hunt said:

He sounds like a clown when he blames the ref and says we should have won a game that we were clearly were poor in. 

Taking away the performance for a second. Those two things are accurate. We should have won that game we had at least three clear cut chances deapite being horrendous we should have scored them all. They were simple chances. Kingsley , Naismith and Henderson.

 

The ref was a joke throughout. 
 

That is not defending RN nor saying the performance was acceptable. It is simply stating two facts that if you asked me about the game id have added along with we were horrendous. I can understand him not adding the horrendous bit. 
 

Perception EH

Edited January 3, 2021 by sadj

[Jambo in Yorkshire]

The bonus issue is very relevant. If the players had been on £5K per squad member to beat St Mirren I think there could have been a different outcome.

Certainly costing a lot less than being demoted.

[Thomaso]

3 hours ago, sadj said:

🤣

Na , iv never managed staff or worked with people. Never played football , etc. Its not nonsense. Its fact that footballers are often egos , you have to manage that. You can deal with them privately , his thoughts he gave to media are not going to be his private thoughts or what he will convey to the players. Simple as that. 

Fine - protect the players ego and just say it was a disappointing performances and we improved in the second half - but don’t blame the referee as that just came across as bitter.

[Thomaso]

3 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Bottom line is, the Championship could not be weaker than it is this season. We’ve been handed promotion on a plate. Thank Christ there are no decent teams in it.

No decent teams but we have already lost to Dunfermline, Dundee and Alloa in the LC!

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

1 minute ago, Thomaso said:

No decent teams but we have already lost to Dunfermline, Dundee and Alloa in the LC!

Correct. We are bang average in a really shit league