*** the official Heart of Midlothian v Dundee (the Judas *****) ***

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

2 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Should we need Dundee to be reduced to 10 men to beat them?

 

If not, then blaming the ref is deflection.

 

The penalty, which was a penalty, but even if it wasn't was after we'd already lost the game, we weren't coming back to win at that stage. 

That’s fine - as I said not setting up an argument as I don’t expect many to agree.

 

What happened for that penalty happens  nearly every corner and free kick in the box. If that’s a penalty there should be at least 4 or 5 a game.

 

[Turkishcap]

Frustrating thing is this team can deliver much more but it seems too big an effort at times

 

[5jambo1]

6 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Can only assume you didn’t watch the game tonight.
 

Popescu should be starting the next game. And yes he’s shite as well. But Berra was actually that bad tonight it was droppable offence. It was painful to watch a once powerful defender, a total shadow of his former self.
 

Last few games I’ve hoped he’d at least have enough in the tank to get us through winning the championship, but to be honest I would be looking for a Center half as the top priority in this window  

i did watch the game tonight and have seen every game this season. I respect your opinion and to be honest I agree we do need another centre half but definitely not the priority this window. In my opinion halkett and Berra, with hopefully souttar back soon will see us through this season. Our priority should be pace in the forward areas. 
 

im not saying Berra is as good as he was, he’s far from it, but he will still do a job at this level for us and is a better option than popescu. If I had the choice between another ginnelly type player or a centre half, I’d go with a ginnelly type every day but to be honest I’d rather save every penny we have for the summer 

[maroonsgotop]

1 minute ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

That’s fine - as I said not setting up an argument as I don’t expect many to agree.

 

What happened for that penalty happens  nearly every corner and free kick in the box. If that’s a penalty there should be at least 4 or 5 a game.

 

could easily have given one against Gordon for the foul on Sow 

[Taffin]

Just now, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

That’s fine - as I said not setting up an argument as I don’t expect many to agree.

 

What happened for that penalty happens  nearly every corner and free kick in the box. If that’s a penalty there should be at least 4 or 5 a game.

 

 

Yeh not meaning to argue either, I just don't see how Robbie can blame the ref for that result. They should have had a penalty for the foul by Gordon too really. 

 

As you say, there's always pulling in the box but Berra just about had the boys shirt off and then knocked the other one over. If that was against us I'd be livid if it wasn't given.

 

I agree, the ref was poor though but he didn't lose us that game. Just imo too and appreciate yours is different 👍👍

[JimmyCant]

1 hour ago, Boof said:

 

They're also supposed to apply the laws of the game equally to both sides.

 

 

Disagree.

 

 

Absolutely don't let the management and players off from any warranted criticism but the officials were particularly useless tonight.

Possible red card in the first couple of minutes. What else did the officials get wrong specifically ?

[5jambo1]

9 minutes ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

Interesting Robbie has had a pop at Don Robertson. He’ll get a punishment for that and I know most of you will say it’s just deflection but Robbie knows Scottish football and he will know from “football chat” what refs are more likely to be against us or not. Robertson has history with reffing our games I recall.

 

We weren’t good enough tonight - I accept that - but the ref gave Dundee most calls. It wasn’t a penalty and I’ve only seen the first goal once from the side camera but it looked offside. We’ve also had plenty players sent off for the type of tackle Naismith took early on. And it being early in the game isn’t an excuse - think back to Gomis v Celtic.

 

I know many will disagree but whilst not playing well tonight the ref did deserve to get called out IMO and I’m glad Robbie did.

 

Robbie isn’t stupid and knows we need upgrades in the team - and that is being worked on but I like a manager that will have a pop like he has tonight.

 

I appreciate not many of you will agree - that’s fair enough.

 

 

hopefully just deflection to protect his players in the media from criticism which is fair enough and probably the right thing to do. Will also maybe swing a few decisions our way in the future, Alex Ferguson was brilliant at putting pressure on referees by highlighting things in the media. 

 

I just hope he went to town on them in the changing rooms. Tonight was unacceptable and they need to be better and want it more. He did look and sound angry so I am guessing and hoping he gave them a rollicking. 

[MarkDevriesScores4]

Not for the first time this season (and I include the cup final in that), it seems to take us an age to get going. It’s almost like Robbie has asked them to keep things tight and not bust a gut at kick off. I’d like to see them winning second balls from the off and preferably scoring early doors. We seem to start playing from 30-45 mins into the game. 
 

it’s quite frustrating how slow we are to get attacking 

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

2 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Yeh not meaning to argue either, I just don't see how Robbie can blame the ref for that result. They should have had a penalty for the foul by Gordon too really. 

 

As you say, there's always pulling in the box but Berra just about had the boys shirt off and then knocked the other one over. If that was against us I'd be livid if it wasn't given.

 

I agree, the ref was poor though but he didn't lose us that game. Just imo too and appreciate yours is different 👍👍

Nah, I don’t think we lost because of the ref. I just think Neilson isn’t stupid, and he has called out Robertson for a reason. He did also say were weren’t good enough or up for it enough first half so it wasn’t all deflection blaming the ref.

 

I just think there is a reason he’s called out Robertson - and football is leaky as a sieve so I’m guessing it’s known he won’t give us many calls when he refs us - which is why Neilson has mentioned it. He called out Collim before - so I just think there is a reason he did it, other than 100% deflection.

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

1 minute ago, MarkDevriesScores4 said:

Not for the first time this season (and I include the cup final in that), it seems to take us an age to get going. It’s almost like Robbie has asked them to keep things tight and not bust a gut at kick off. I’d like to see them winning second balls from the off and preferably scoring early doors. We seem to start playing from 30-45 mins into the game. 
 

it’s quite frustrating how slow we are to get attacking 

It does feel like that some times but their have been quite a few games we have scored in the first 15 

[maroonsgotop]

based on what we saw tonight, we are miles away from being a team that can compete in the top flight next season (that's if we make it there)

 

Still can't believe that some people thought winning this pishy league was more important that winning the Cup Final. 

[NANOJAMBO]

18 minutes ago, BammyCammy said:

sorry got mixed up with the rick sanchez post

Fair do's. I was a bit concerned.... actually, very concerned. 😄

[NANOJAMBO]

5 minutes ago, maroonsgotop said:

could easily have given one against Gordon for the foul on Sow 

 If that had been at the other end , imagine Neilson tonight...

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, NANOJAMBO said:

 If that had been at the other end , imagine Neilson tonight...

He would’ve been absolutely miffed, I don’t see him giving anyone the hairdryer treatment do you? He’s not got it in him. 

[Auldbenches]

44 minutes ago, McCrae said:

Exactly. Our team is still rank rotten and no signs of progress in the football department. 

The football side was supposed to be built on an ethos of progression and we have been nothing but reactionary since.   Nearly another whole team needed.  When is Budge and the board going to take some responsibility for all their mistakes?  

Promised a new director of football before a manager and she then goes and gets neilson before telling stendel or broadening her search to see what all the option were. 

There are fundamental reasons for where we are and how we play.   

[Gambo]

23 minutes ago, MarkDevriesScores4 said:

Not for the first time this season (and I include the cup final in that), it seems to take us an age to get going. It’s almost like Robbie has asked them to keep things tight and not bust a gut at kick off. I’d like to see them winning second balls from the off and preferably scoring early doors. We seem to start playing from 30-45 mins into the game. 
 

it’s quite frustrating how slow we are to get attacking 

We seem to be a reactive team in big games.

[colinmaroon]

2 hours ago, flem said:

 

Yes, lets celebrate a 1-1 second half draw.

 

Deflection - classic!  

[colinmaroon]

2 hours ago, Hashimoto said:

Has the clown tried having a talk before kick off?.....Now there's a novel idea!.....

 

 

Second instance, again classic deflection.

Edited January 2, 2021 by colinmaroon

[DS98]

16 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

He would’ve been absolutely miffed, I don’t see him giving anyone the hairdryer treatment do you? He’s not got it in him. 

He does. Tore shreds off a certain player after our last game. Then dropped him. That’s not the problem 

[BammyCammy]

1 hour ago, smiler said:

Pretty much mate. 

I get your sentiment mate, I really do.

Fwiw I'm not one of the grammar / punctuation police. 

Never knew when to cross the I or dot the t went to school in the sixties .when you got tabs of acid for ten bob

[Kiwidoug]

1 hour ago, Tommy Brown said:

@Kiwidoug getting Damour and Djoum mixed up. Bless him.

Easy mistake, one was a footballer the other isn't.

 

Damour.  That's the man.  

[Japan Jambo]

1 hour ago, Last Laff said:

He's most effective serving customers at Pets at home. 

 

What makes you think he'd be any more likely to put in a shift there?

[Pasquale for King]

40 minutes ago, DS98 said:

He does. Tore shreds off a certain player after our last game. Then dropped him. That’s not the problem 

Which one, did he come on tonight? Is he going to drop Berra, his boy Halliday? Or anyone else that was poor tonight? Just don’t see him doing that I’m afraid, nice guys finish last. 

[Pasquale for King]

21 minutes ago, Kiwidoug said:

Damour.  That's the man.  

Ffs I thought you meant him but didn’t want to appear like a smart arse 😜. 

[NANOJAMBO]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

Which one, did he come on tonight? Is he going to drop Berra, his boy Halliday? Or anyone else that was poor tonight? Just don’t see him doing that I’m afraid, nice guys finish last. 

Seriously, imagine dropping the non-performers from tonight's game. 

He can't and the players  know it. 

[Kiwidoug]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

Ffs I thought you meant him but didn’t want to appear like a smart arse 😜. 

Yes.  Not as if I'm stantoned either.  Stupid mistake.  Point still stands.  If he's worse than some of the others who are playing, he must be incredibly bad.

[Pasquale for King]

3 minutes ago, Kiwidoug said:

Yes.  Not as if I'm stantoned either.  Stupid mistake.  Point still stands.  If he's worse than some of the others who are playing, he must be incredibly bad.

It is a good point, I think they’re not playing him so that he will leave in January to get game time. 

[Last Laff]

33 minutes ago, Jap Jambo said:

 

What makes you think he'd be any more likely to put in a shift there?

 

Fair point. 

[Pasquale for King]

7 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Seriously, imagine dropping the non-performers from tonight's game. 

He can't and the players  know it. 

Exactly. I would love it if he put in 3 or 4 youngsters in the next game. Irving was far better than the other 3, had old gap tooth trying to hurt him until he went off. The other three made Adam look like a world  beater, and Walker bottling out of the challenge for the McGhee goal.

[CostaJambo]

58 minutes ago, DS98 said:

He does. Tore shreds off a certain player after our last game. Then dropped him. That’s not the problem 

Smith or Boyce?

[NANOJAMBO]

5 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Exactly. I would love it if he put in 3 or 4 youngsters in the next game. Irving was far better than the other 3, had old gap tooth trying to hurt him until he went off. The other three made Adam look like a world  beater, and Walker bottling out of the challenge for the McGhee goal.

Given his unambitious style of football away from home, he might as well. 

Bottom line : there's no consequences for persistent failure to perform to the required standard. 

Edited January 3, 2021 by NANOJAMBO

[Last Laff]

4 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

It is a good point, I think they’re not playing him so that he will leave in January to get game time. 

 

Damour would be incredibly stupid to leave.  See Osh and Martin.  Did Martin not end up being too shite for Dunfermline and Osh went back to Nigeria as king of the scammers.  I still wonder if Levein got a call from a prince telling him he had to stash £5m all he needed to do was play his cousin and pay him £5k pw for three years to get it out the country. 

[Last Laff]

4 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Exactly. I would love it if he put in 3 or 4 youngsters in the next game. Irving was far better than the other 3, had old gap tooth trying to hurt him until he went off. The other three made Adam look like a world  beater, and Walker bottling out of the challenge for the McGhee goal.

 

If Irving tells the club to ram it when Walker and Lee start every week then he' got a valid point. 

[NANOJAMBO]

1 minute ago, Last Laff said:

 

Damour would be incredibly stupid to leave.  See Osh and Martin.  Did Martin not end up being too shite for Dunfermline and Osh went back to Nigeria as king of the scammers.  I still wonder if Levein got a call from a prince telling him he had to stash £5m all he needed to do was play his cousin and pay him £5k pw for three years to get it out the country. 

Martin's been shit everywhere he ever went. His wiki page was a joke , even when he signed for Hearts. I'm sure they all got tumescent at Tynecastle cos they'd signed a guy who'd played at just about every level for France (apart from the one that matters, obv). 

[Last Laff]

2 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Martin's been shit everywhere he ever went. His wiki page was a joke , even when he signed for Hearts. I'm sure they all got tumescent at Tynecastle cos they'd signed a guy who'd played at just about every level for France (apart from the one that matters, obv). 

 

It's just crazy that so many of these players can be justified as signing them and it couldn't just be Levein it must be somehow verified but at least a couple others.  So much money spent on utter, utter gambles and crap. 

[Boof]

1 hour ago, JimmyCant said:

Possible red card in the first couple of minutes. What else did the officials get wrong specifically ?

 

I'm not planning to rewatch the whole sodding game but:

1) No caution for Adam deliberate handball when the thought he should be getting a free kick.

2) No free kick - in a dangerous position - when Brandon got thumped just before he bumped into Adam...who got the free kick

3) Towards the end s the ball was heading to the corner flag one of our players got a massive shove in the back which then resulted in the ball going out for a Dundee throw-in/ Decision...Dundee throw-in.

 

That's just 3 immediately rememberable without a rewatch. If you want to see more - you put yourself through that torture.

[Pasquale for King]

27 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Given his unambitious style of football away from home, he might as well. 

Bottom line : there's no consequences for persistent failure to perform to the required standard. 

Agreed. 

[Pasquale for King]

58 minutes ago, Last Laff said:

 

Damour would be incredibly stupid to leave.  See Osh and Martin.  Did Martin not end up being too shite for Dunfermline and Osh went back to Nigeria as king of the scammers.  I still wonder if Levein got a call from a prince telling him he had to stash £5m all he needed to do was play his cousin and pay him £5k pw for three years to get it out the country. 

Osh was paid off and didn’t play again for 18 months, not his fault that Charlatan gave him a lucrative contract, although Neilson said he chose him. It wouldn’t surprise me if CL was paid for all the players we signed. 
Neilson reckons Damour will be away somehow this month, can’t see it. 

Edited January 3, 2021 by Pasquale for King

[Pasquale for King]

57 minutes ago, Last Laff said:

 

If Irving tells the club to ram it when Walker and Lee start every week then he' got a valid point. 

Indeed. 

[chazza74]

7 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Exactly. I would love it if he put in 3 or 4 youngsters in the next game. Irving was far better than the other 3, had old gap tooth trying to hurt him until he went off. The other three made Adam look like a world  beater, and Walker bottling out of the challenge for the McGhee goal.

We definitely need more energy and legs in the midfield, I don’t know what’s happened to McGill, he must be worth a run in the team , instead we have losers like frear and roberts on the bench

[henryheart]

Before the season started we lost the likes of Hickey, Clare, Ikpeazu, Dikamona and Washington. The new signings have been.......  One thing we are not doing is building for the future.   

[Ex member of the SaS]

Not at the Robbie out stage and as stated I like and support him, However that game was lost before KO. By playing one up front we had no out ball and hoofed it to a single player who can't do it all on his own. Wighton is not that type of player.

When we got the ball there was never enough players forward to attack with. Not enough players in the box to score with and too many wandering around the defense and mid field.

Robbie has to wise up and get two up front against these teams or there will be many more results like this.

People on here derided those who posted caution in the typical we will walk this league. I and others have suggested teams in this league will step up against us and ;last night was typical. After roasting them last time they were always going to be well motivated. But to allow two has been's in Adam and McGowan to walk all over players of our quality shows they are not motivated to play in this league. We will need a big clear out if we are ever to stay up next season.

[chrystaf]

10 hours ago, Gambo said:

We seem to be a reactive team in big games.

Exactly.  Just a couple of weeks ago we were proudly lauding our team for its efforts in the cup final and now we are slagging our players - rightly so - and calling our manager a duffer.

Funny game football.

[Archie White]

10 hours ago, maroonsgotop said:

based on what we saw tonight, we are miles away from being a team that can compete in the top flight next season (that's if we make it there)

 

Still can't believe that some people thought winning this pishy league was more important that winning the Cup Final. 

Actually, I think we will complete pretty well in the top flight next season. What we must not forget is that although we have a pretty poor squad, the quality level of the top flight is the worst I've seen in years and that's saying something. We've already beaten one top 4 side this season and only lost to another on penalties so our crappy team will fit right in. 

[chrystaf]

14 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

Not at the Robbie out stage and as stated I like and support him, However that game was lost before KO. By playing one up front we had no out ball and hoofed it to a single player who can't do it all on his own. Wighton is not that type of player.

When we got the ball there was never enough players forward to attack with. Not enough players in the box to score with and too many wandering around the defense and mid field.

Robbie has to wise up and get two up front against these teams or there will be many more results like this.

People on here derided those who posted caution in the typical we will walk this league. I and others have suggested teams in this league will step up against us and ;last night was typical. After roasting them last time they were always going to be well motivated. But to allow two has been's in Adam and McGowan to walk all over players of our quality shows they are not motivated to play in this league. We will need a big clear out if we are ever to stay up next season.

Spot on.  We just have no appetite for the street-wise teams like Dundee, nor did we for clubs like Hamilton and St Midden, to name but two, who play hard, in our faces and who have developed a means of winning despite their apparent lack of quality.  

The "We are Heart of Midlothian" mentality doesn't win us games.  

[ford donald]

9 hours ago, Last Laff said:

 

If Irving tells the club to ram it when Walker and Lee start every week then he' got a valid point. 

 

Very much so, the two you mention should be moving on somewhere else.

[3fingersreid]

Dundee set the tone when Naismith was clattered , we should’ve done exactly the same at the very next opportunity , unfortunately our players can’t or won’t reciprocate the challenge . 
I accept there are games we will lose either to bad luck or just being outplayed,

I will never accept us getting beat without putting in 100% effort in every minute of every game , we did not apply that in the first half .

 

[Thomaso]

29 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

Not at the Robbie out stage and as stated I like and support him, However that game was lost before KO. By playing one up front we had no out ball and hoofed it to a single player who can't do it all on his own. Wighton is not that type of player.

When we got the ball there was never enough players forward to attack with. Not enough players in the box to score with and too many wandering around the defense and mid field.

Robbie has to wise up and get two up front against these teams or there will be many more results like this.

People on here derided those who posted caution in the typical we will walk this league. I and others have suggested teams in this league will step up against us and ;last night was typical. After roasting them last time they were always going to be well motivated. But to allow two has been's in Adam and McGowan to walk all over players of our quality shows they are not motivated to play in this league. We will need a big clear out if we are ever to stay up next season.

We (well most of us) just knew Neilson would play Wighton up front in splendid isolation! 

[maroonsgotop]

14 minutes ago, Archie White said:

Actually, I think we will complete pretty well in the top flight next season. What we must not forget is that although we have a pretty poor squad, the quality level of the top flight is the worst I've seen in years and that's saying something. We've already beaten one top 4 side this season and only lost to another on penalties so our crappy team will fit right in. 

let's hope they're a lot worse than last season as we don't look a lot better than before we got expelled

[GinRummy]

11 minutes ago, chrystaf said:

Spot on.  We just have no appetite for the street-wise teams like Dundee, nor did we for clubs like Hamilton and St Midden, to name but two, who play hard, in our faces and who have developed a means of winning despite their apparent lack of quality.  

The "We are Heart of Midlothian" mentality doesn't win us games.  

Their means of winning is the same as last season. Press us high because we don’t have the pace to counter effectively. I’m going to stop mentioning this now because I must sound like a broken record but to me it’s so obvious.