SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[Section Q]

Taken from the BBC in the last hour

 

 

"""We now have an environment of distrust. During all of this, almost a third of clubs voted for an independent inquiry into the governance of the SPFL board, not just relating to this one issue. No chief executive in any company in the world would want a third of their members calling for a review of how they are performing.

Last week, clubs voted against giving the SPFL board the power to decide the outcome of the coming season if it is hit by a second wave of coronavirus. On Monday, Aberdeen chairman, Dave Cormack, spoke about the need for a constructive review of the way Scottish football does business.

"I don't know what the vision is," he said. "We don't have a branding strategy. At the centre we've got an administration that is not run like a real company that would have vision and a branding strategy to generate more income."""

[gator]

After yesterday's corrupt ruling to try to destroy our club I figured after a good night's sleep things would be better today, they are not and jumping on board here has just wound me up more! This is absolutely pathetic and scandalous what has been done to my club by the SPFL mafia and all the foul clubs who support them, I wish for nothing but trouble for all of these clubs and everyone involved with this corrupt organization, the more clubs that go bust the better and I look forward to the day when karma catches up with Doncaster and PL and they are thrown in jail! Have a nice day

[Nookie Bear]

1 minute ago, Section Q said:

Taken from the BBC in the last hour

 

 

"""We now have an environment of distrust. During all of this, almost a third of clubs voted for an independent inquiry into the governance of the SPFL board, not just relating to this one issue. No chief executive in any company in the world would want a third of their members calling for a review of how they are performing.

Last week, clubs voted against giving the SPFL board the power to decide the outcome of the coming season if it is hit by a second wave of coronavirus. On Monday, Aberdeen chairman, Dave Cormack, spoke about the need for a constructive review of the way Scottish football does business.

"I don't know what the vision is," he said. "We don't have a branding strategy. At the centre we've got an administration that is not run like a real company that would have vision and a branding strategy to generate more income."""

 

He could have said this before yesterday, no?

 

Anyway, if he wants change then he can submit a proposal for the clubs to discuss. Not our problem anymore.

[Boof]

There's a good few Scottish grounds I've not been at yet.

 

Retirement would have enabled me to tick a few more off that list. 

 

Sadly, now the only reason I'd have to visit the likes of Starks Park (or whatever two-bit company they've sold the naming rights to) would be to take a shite on their doorstep.

[MarkDevriesScores4]

Raith Chairman: “I’d be very sad if Hearts fans didn’t come to Starks park”

 

I bet you will you grovelling little sh*+

[Lone Striker]

21 minutes ago, jackal said:

Raith chairman is a complete balloon, didnt vote for reconstruction because they wouldnt have been any better off as a club then says supporters are complaining because they are playing the same teams all the time and they want bigger leagues.He wanted a sweetener to vote for it but didnt get it. 

I so hope more fans take the decision not to visit Raith.

From a sporting integrity point of view, the ideal Championship table after the 27 games would be Raith at the bottom (relegated) and Ayr 2nd bottom (in the playoffs, losing to Falkirk or Partick )  .... and us at the top (obviously).   ICT winning the playoff position ( beating any one of these bar steward Premiership  clubs who screwed us in the votes).  

Edited July 28, 2020 by Lone Striker

[AndrewB]

10 minutes ago, Maroonblood22 said:

Can we re-sign Pasquale Bruno just for this season to smash the absolute **** out of these shitehawk teams (ICT aside obvs)? Actually want to cause them physical as well as financial pain!

Midfield of Brellier, Black, Berry.  Bruno and Kidd at the back.

 

EDIT: Both Kenny and Ian Black actually; first thought was IB but KB also.

Edited July 28, 2020 by AndrewB

[frankblack]

4 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

From a sporting integrity point of view, the ideal Championship table after the 27 games would be Raith at the bottom (relegated) and Ayr 2nd bottom (in the playoffs, losing to Falkirk or East Fife)  .... and us at the top (obviously).   ICT winning the playoff position ( beating any one of these bar steward Premiership  clubs who screwed us in the votes).  

 

I would take that and add that I hope several of these tossers go out of business before the season ends.

[kevmacd]

42 minutes ago, TheOak88 said:

 

I think I do understand the concept of a fans forum. As I understand it, it is a platform for fans to gather and freely discuss topics regarding the club. Would you agree?

 

With relation to the rest of your post. This is the typical delusions of grandeur that gets posted on here regularly. Their is not a nationwide conspiracy against Hearts between football pundits and the general media. Most pundits/media are aligned to one of the OF, and any vested interest, or biased they may hold is with relation to those two clubs. They couldn’t care less about a run of the mill club like Hearts. They don’t see us as being any different to Hibs, Aberdeen, Motherwell, St Mirren etc. 

 

 

Smells bad.

[David McCaig]

5 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

From a sporting integrity point of view, the ideal Championship table after the 27 games would be Raith at the bottom (relegated) and Ayr 2nd bottom (in the playoffs, losing to Falkirk or East Fife)  .... and us at the top (obviously).   ICT winning the playoff position ( beating any one of these bar steward Premiership  clubs who screwed us in the votes).  

Raith relegated on the last day as a result of Hearts playing a comically weakened side!!

[John Findlay]

12 minutes ago, Section Q said:

Taken from the BBC in the last hour

 

 

"""We now have an environment of distrust. During all of this, almost a third of clubs voted for an independent inquiry into the governance of the SPFL board, not just relating to this one issue. No chief executive in any company in the world would want a third of their members calling for a review of how they are performing.

Last week, clubs voted against giving the SPFL board the power to decide the outcome of the coming season if it is hit by a second wave of coronavirus. On Monday, Aberdeen chairman, Dave Cormack, spoke about the need for a constructive review of the way Scottish football does business.

"I don't know what the vision is," he said. "We don't have a branding strategy. At the centre we've got an administration that is not run like a real company that would have vision and a branding strategy to generate more income."""

Then he should propose and get two seconded, a vote of no confidence in Neil Doncaster and the board.

It appears Mr Cormack's balls are made of glass.

[3fingersreid]

12 minutes ago, Section Q said:

Taken from the BBC in the last hour

 

 

"""We now have an environment of distrust. During all of this, almost a third of clubs voted for an independent inquiry into the governance of the SPFL board, not just relating to this one issue. No chief executive in any company in the world would want a third of their members calling for a review of how they are performing.

Last week, clubs voted against giving the SPFL board the power to decide the outcome of the coming season if it is hit by a second wave of coronavirus. On Monday, Aberdeen chairman, Dave Cormack, spoke about the need for a constructive review of the way Scottish football does business.

"I don't know what the vision is," he said. "We don't have a branding strategy. At the centre we've got an administration that is not run like a real company that would have vision and a branding strategy to generate more income."""

A third eh , we’ll come on then ya shower of gutless shitehawks, in the words of Delia

lets be having you 

 

names of the clubs please 

 

 

 

( not aimed at you section Q ) 

[Dazo]

27 minutes ago, TheOak88 said:

 

This is exactly what I was trying to say, mate. This thread very quickly turned into an echo chamber, and anyone who had seen a couple of episodes of Suits decided that they were a lawyer worth listening to. 

 

Any detracting voices of reason, or people airing a note of caution were brushed aside as Hubs Fans (LOLZ). 

 

People set themselves up for a big fall, and now the toys are well and truly getting thrown out the pram. 

 

Because people are convinced we have a sound legal case all the anger is being vented at the SPFL/SFA (and yes there should be some anger towards them). But for me, the mismanagement of the club over the past 3 or so years is what we should be angry about; we should never have been in this position. 

How strong our case was and regardless of how many suits experts members on here thought they were does not retract from the injustice of the spfl’s behaviour. 3 teams and 3 teams only in the spfl paid the price for the pandemic. Hearts fans are entitled to Chuck as many toys out the pram as they want because of that. The running of the club is well documented on here and no one is saying that’s ok but it’s completely separate issue no matter how many times you try to merge them. 

[Lone Striker]

3 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

Raith relegated on the last day as a result of Hearts playing a comically weakened side!!

Karma .....beautiful karma 

[Lovecraft]

Where does this leave players that had a relegation % clause?

 

Would this stand up if players were to go to court?

 

 

[AndrewB]

19 minutes ago, Section Q said:

Taken from the BBC in the last hour

 

 

"""We now have an environment of distrust. During all of this, almost a third of clubs voted for an independent inquiry into the governance of the SPFL board, not just relating to this one issue. No chief executive in any company in the world would want a third of their members calling for a review of how they are performing.

Last week, clubs voted against giving the SPFL board the power to decide the outcome of the coming season if it is hit by a second wave of coronavirus. On Monday, Aberdeen chairman, Dave Cormack, spoke about the need for a constructive review of the way Scottish football does business.

"I don't know what the vision is," he said. "We don't have a branding strategy. At the centre we've got an administration that is not run like a real company that would have vision and a branding strategy to generate more income."""

Credit where it is due.  It is from another excellent article from Tom English.

[Taffin]

7 minutes ago, Dazo said:

How strong our case was and regardless of how many suits experts members on here thought they were does not retract from the injustice of the spfl’s behaviour. 3 teams and 3 teams only in the spfl paid the price for the pandemic. Hearts fans are entitled to Chuck as many toys out the pram as they want because of that. The running of the club is well documented on here and no one is saying that’s ok but it’s completely separate issue no matter how many times you try to merge them. 

 

 

Correct. I've been (and remain) quite a vociferous critic of how we've been ran over the last few years. This isn't our fault. It isn't Ann's fault. Yes we shouldn't have been sitting it last but as you say that's a separate issue and one that still needs resolved, but to suggest we brought this on ourselves or the like is nonsense.

 

It's victim blaming. Could we and should we have done things differently to avoid this? Absolutely. Does that make how we've been treated okay? Absolutely not.

Edited July 28, 2020 by Taffin

[Mundaydog]

14 minutes ago, Boof said:

There's a good few Scottish grounds I've not been at yet.

 

Retirement would have enabled me to tick a few more off that list. 

 

Sadly, now the only reason I'd have to visit the likes of Starks Park (or whatever two-bit company they've sold the naming rights to) would be to take a shite on their doorstep.

Don’t worry, I’m originally from Kirkcaldy and Stark Park has always looked like someone has taken a shite all over it

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

2 wrongs don't make a right but would be gratifying to see one of the clubs who have backed them be done over 

[Deevers]

22 minutes ago, Tynehead said:

 

Mr Bill Clark Raith Rovers Chairman said several times during podcast "now is not the right time"    Hearts fans note now is not the right time to visit Starks Park.

It won’t be the right time until that prick is out of there. He’s reinforced my decision not to put a penny in their direction.

Edited July 28, 2020 by Deevers

[buzzbomb1958]

32 minutes ago, HMFC01 said:

 

1 of 16 clubs that voted yes, a yes vote with prejudicial intent.  Good will will be hard to find.

He can shove his goodwill up his fat rectum

 

[jamboinglasgow]

13 minutes ago, MarkDevriesScores4 said:

Raith Chairman: “I’d be very sad if Hearts fans didn’t come to Starks park”

 

I bet you will you grovelling little sh*+

 

My answer to him is simple, "what have you done that would make a Hearts fan go?"

 

Its like the SPFL's "lets move on" nonsense, its easy to say that when you have lost nothing and the other side has lost a lot. 

[colinmaroon]

34 minutes ago, TheOak88 said:

 

I think there are defiantly some shady things that go and rules that get bent to suit certain clubs. 

 

 

Why pussy foot around the word "corruption," because that is what you're hinting at?

 

A simple question and "Yes" to the question would have been easy enough. 

 

Smoke and mirrors, I'm sick of it.

[Bazzas right boot]

Why do think folk saying their age makes their opinion more worth while. 

 

I'm 70 and....., I've followed Hearts for 50 years... , I'm 65 and bla blah. 

 

Auld folk talk pish too, in fact often  far more pish than young folk. What they should know  is how to hold on to  their slaver grenades and not be emotional, argumentive messes. 

D Trump does prove that  it's difficult - on any stage. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 28, 2020 by Smith's right boot

[TheOak88]

6 minutes ago, Dazo said:

How strong our case was and regardless of how many suits experts members on here thought they were does not retract from the injustice of the spfl’s behaviour. 3 teams and 3 teams only in the spfl paid the price for the pandemic. Hearts fans are entitled to Chuck as many toys out the pram as they want because of that. The running of the club is well documented on here and no one is saying that’s ok but it’s completely separate issue no matter how many times you try to merge them. 

 

I mean, I literally put in the post you quoted that people should be angry at the SPFL, so not sure how I was detracting from that. 

 

I think you have misunderstood my post. In no way do I want the two issues to get merged!. That would let the club off the hook far too lightly. 

 

The two issues of club mismanagement and the SPFL are defo separate issues. And we should be angry at both. 

 

My point was more that in terms of “anger priority”, I am more angry at the way the club has been mismanaged than the incompetence of the SPFL. A club of Hearts size, with the financial backing we have should never have been in the situation we found ourselves in. That is/was the root of the problem. 

[graygo]

2 hours ago, Riccarton3 said:

Yes. The SPFL seemed desperate for it to go to arbitration. Wonder why? Why not through the court because Doncaster was confident of their case as he's expressed subsequently. Great opportunity to really stick it the clubs in open court. Open goal, surely.

 

 

 

Arbitration should be an alternative (if all parties agree) to court not a substitute. It's ridiculous that we now know that no club can take another club or organisation like the SPFL or the SFA to court as it will just get bounced straight back to the SFA for arbitration due to the SFA article 99.

[Lone Striker]

6 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

My answer to him is simple, "what have you done that would make a Hearts fan go?"

 

Its like the SPFL's "lets move on" nonsense, its easy to say that when you have lost nothing and the other side has lost a lot. 

Indeed.  At the end of Tom English's article, he quoted Bill Clark as asking "Are we not decent people ?  Are we bad people ?"

 

Now, there's the very definition of a rhetorical question right there !!! 

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

I genuinely can’t believe any Hearts fan would want to put money in the pocket of those who have stabbed us in the back. Supporting the team financially now is much kore important than getting pished up in fecking Falkirk and giving their club a load of cash that could benefit us.

 

We will piss all over these teams home

and away without an away support so the team will not lose out 

[spirt of 98]

That’s me done with football. I’ll never put another penny into the pockets of any other club. I probably won’t ever go back to a Hearts game unless I get a free ticket and I have nothing better to do. They can ram it! 

[Dazo]

2 minutes ago, TheOak88 said:

 

I mean, I literally put in the post you quoted that people should be angry at the SPFL, so not sure how I was detracting from that. 

 

I think you have misunderstood my post. In no way do I want the two issues to get merged!. That would let the club off the hook far too lightly. 

 

The two issues of club mismanagement and the SPFL are defo separate issues. And we should be angry at both. 

 

My point was more that in terms of “anger priority”, I am more angry at the way the club has been mismanaged than the incompetence of the SPFL. A club of Hearts size, with the financial backing we have should never have been in the situation we found ourselves in. That is/was the root of the problem. 

 

But we know we shouldn’t have been in that position and people have lost their jobs because of it. You implied misplaced anger, how will that help us now ? AB is well aware things weren’t right. We are in the process of big changes, We need to get behind the club. You think now we should aim our anger at the club ? Before the spfl, the clubs who voted against us and the corrupt chairman ? Really ?  I’d say you are putting your dislike for someone at the club before actually backing the club. 

[Bazzas right boot]

2 minutes ago, spirt of 98 said:

That’s me done with football. I’ll never put another penny into the pockets of any other club. I probably won’t ever go back to a Hearts game unless I get a free ticket and I have nothing better to do. They can ram it! 

 

 

Not going to another Hearts game, that will show them..... 🙄

[NANOJAMBO]

24 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Then he should propose and get two seconded, a vote of no confidence in Neil Doncaster and the board.

It appears Mr Cormack's balls are made of glass.

This. Happy to sit on the sidelines and make noises but proposes no action and does nothing.  Maybe start by saving £400K p a and  bin ND. 

Edited July 28, 2020 by NANOJAMBO

[The Real Maroonblood]

5 minutes ago, spirt of 98 said:

That’s me done with football. I’ll never put another penny into the pockets of any other club. I probably won’t ever go back to a Hearts game unless I get a free ticket and I have nothing better to do. They can ram it! 

That’s the spirit.

[AndrewB]

4 minutes ago, spirt of 98 said:

That’s me done with football. I’ll never put another penny into the pockets of any other club. I probably won’t ever go back to a Hearts game unless I get a free ticket and I have nothing better to do. They can ram it! 

Are you one of these folk who throw their scarf onto the pitch in disgust when we have an occasional loss to Hibs?

 

You'll be better soon So98, I promise.  Once the fixtures come out and we're all looking forward to winning and looking forward to getting back in the ground in the autumn / winter.

[Boris5115]

7 minutes ago, spirt of 98 said:

That’s me done with football. I’ll never put another penny into the pockets of any other club. I probably won’t ever go back to a Hearts game unless I get a free ticket and I have nothing better to do. They can ram it! 

Hurt the clubs that hurt us. Why would you not want to go back to Tynecastle unless it was a freebie. Very strange statement. 

[stevie1874]

5 hours ago, Stendelnator said:

The way we’ve been treated, we should just dust ourselves off and go back to lining the pockets of clubs that voted to hurt us? To give the SFA money? 

I agree, time to make a point. Last season has been called so if Hearts supporters go to a semi final in which were at a disadvantage before a ball is kicked due to our squad being possibly culled, they are just playing into the hands of the authorities £££. New season time to move on, we stick together and do what’s best for Hearts. 

[HMFC01]

1 hour ago, colinmaroon said:

 

I find myself really wondering.

Do you think the governance of Scottish football is corrupt?

 

I would help you make that decision but I don't want to corrupt your own reflection in a Doncaster-esque way by for example saying everyone else thinks it is so your thoughts are meaningless. 

Spoiler

Of course it is corrupt  

 

[AlphonseCapone]

I understand anger and not going to away days. Boycotting Hearts though? Baffling. 

[graygo]

1 hour ago, Fedupfan said:

Dreary me, I wouldn't have Leslie Dean's help me out with a parking fine.

 

They are wholly independent, there is no doubt about it, they are on the SFA list because the have knowledge of the rules about Scottish football. 

 

You wouldn't ask a solicitor/lawyer/QC who deals with buying and selling houses to help you on a murder trial. A judge may like buying coffee from Costa but it doesnt mean he can't judge impartially if he is on a case against them. 

 

Its tin foil hat stuff on here,  why did I bother joining  I thought it would rational, healthy debate about what went wrong, how do we fix it and what can we learn from mistakes we made. 

 

2 points - first they are not on the list because they have knowledge of the rules about Scottish football and secondly jury's are not made up because they have experience of murders and they are asked to judge the case in front of them.

[NANOJAMBO]

42 minutes ago, Boof said:

There's a good few Scottish grounds I've not been at yet.

 

Retirement would have enabled me to tick a few more off that list. 

 

Sadly, now the only reason I'd have to visit the likes of Starks Park (or whatever two-bit company they've sold the naming rights to) would be to take a shite on their doorstep.

I"m in the same boat.

 

But clubs like RRFC in particular can feck right off. a timpot club that just a few weeks ago hadn't sold a single  ST. No wonder he wants Hearts fans to rollup. Two home games for them and a healthy Hearts support must be worth £100k even if attendances are restricted. **** them. 

 

[Riccarton3]

1 hour ago, Fedupfan said:

It's in the rules that we are signed up to. If you want to play in the SPFL then you need to be a member of the SFA, in their/our articles then if you have a problem with a football club, governing body or referee or anyone relating to football then you use the arbitration process. It's been that way for a long long time. The arbitration panel is the same rules and methods that other people, companies or groups would use to adjudicate on a difference of opinion. 

But the same facts would have emerged at the CoS. Why do you think this was not so attractive?

[Glamorgan Jambo]

I just listened to the Sportsound podcast, a fairly feisty encounter including Levein, English, the Raith chairman and some journalist/Park Gardens type. The Raith chairman is kidding himself if he thinks anyone associated with HMFC will let bygones be bygones. Really hope as few as possible travel to Kirkcaldy. The game will more than likely be on BBC Scotland anyway. 
 

Before I bow out of this thread I must mention I just finished reading Ian Murray’s book. A fairly entertaining read. Would love to see him back in the HMFC boardroom and the sooner the better. As well as football knowledge it’s clear to me anyway that we lack a bit of political (in the broad sense) savvy in the boardroom. And I should point out that if I lived in Scotland I wouldn’t vote for him but doesn’t stop me thinking he’s a good guy and would be an excellent addition to the board.

[jamboinglasgow]

2 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

Indeed.  At the end of Tom English's article, he quoted Bill Clark as asking "Are we not decent people ?  Are we bad people ?"

 

Now, there's the very definition of a rhetorical question right there !!! 

 

This is what I am finding through out this, that those at the top of Scottish clubs and leagues dont realise their actions have consequences.

 

If Raith had voted against the motion, then in favour of reconstruction, Hearts fans would see them in a different light. Heck if they had voted just for reconstruction then the ill feeling would not be as strong. He says that he wanted a sweetner to vote for reconstruction sums up things. They deliberately chose their path, they could have still gone up and helped Partick and Hearts.

[Riccarton3]

1 hour ago, Newton51 said:

Not a legal expert so can be easily shot down but I thought there was a couple of different angles we could have challenged the decision. We went down illegal vote, not received etc But in Belgium they went down restricting trade angle and seemed to get further with their case than we did

 

 

Who knows what went down in arbitration? The discussions have been private

[Taffin]

6 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

I understand anger and not going to away days. Boycotting Hearts though? Baffling. 

 

I kind of get it; Scottish football, the whole kit and caboodle, is pointless. One team always wins, only two teams have any chance of winning and the set up is entirely designed to ensure that this remains the case. It's always been true, but I guess this kind of thing makes it's more obvious that sporting integrity doesn't exist and  worse still, there's no desire for it to exist in our game. For some, I can see how they'd be left thinking what is the point in investing time, money and emotion into it.

[Boof]

6 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

I"m in the same boat.

 

But clubs like RRFC in particular can feck right off. a timpot club that just a few weeks ago hadn't sold a single  ST. No wonder he wants Hearts fans to rollup. Two home games for them and a healthy Hearts support must be worth £100k even if attendances are restricted. **** them. 

 

 

It would be a right shame (an shame) if some supporters' clubs made enquiries about hospitality but pulled out very late on - not to the extent of themselves incurring any expense - stating that "Now is not the right time."

[Robbo-Jambo]

22 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Not going to another Hearts game, that will show them..... 🙄

Aye, exactly 😏

[stevie1874]

1 hour ago, Fedupfan said:

Dreary me, I wouldn't have Leslie Dean's help me out with a parking fine.

 

They are wholly independent, there is no doubt about it, they are on the SFA list because the have knowledge of the rules about Scottish football. 

 

You wouldn't ask a solicitor/lawyer/QC who deals with buying and selling houses to help you on a murder trial. A judge may like buying coffee from Costa but it doesnt mean he can't judge impartially if he is on a case against them. 

 

Its tin foil hat stuff on here,  why did I bother joining  I thought it would rational, healthy debate about what went wrong, how do we fix it and what can we learn from mistakes we made. 

Your like a kid at Christmas on here. That’s why you bothered joining. 

[AlphonseCapone]

6 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

I kind of get it; Scottish football, the whole kit and caboodle, is pointless. One team always wins, only two teams have any chance of winning and the set up is entirely designed to ensure that this remains the case. It's always been true, but I guess this kind of thing makes it's more obvious that sporting integrity doesn't exist and  worse still, there's no desire for it to exist in our game. For some, I can see how they'd be left thinking what is the point in investing time, money and emotion into it.

 

Hopefully it's just an emotional response given how recent everything is. If we start abandoning Hearts then they truly do win at that point. 

[graygo]

1 hour ago, TheOak88 said:

 

I think there are defiantly some shady things that go and rules that get bent to suit certain clubs. 

 

Aye but Ann Budge and Craig Levein eh?

 

This thread has nothing to do with how we've performed or at least it shouldn't. I'd hope we would still be firing missiles at the SFA/SPFL if we had been second bottom, the process would still stink.