SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[Newton51]

 

[wavydavy]

2 minutes ago, Newton51 said:

 

 

Away to Dundee on the first game anyone? 

[3fingersreid]

16 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

Do you know what irks me about this statement is the fact that Jaqui Low is aware of  quote " people and Clubs who stood by us publicly and PRIVATELY.

 

So why is it that Partick and presumably us had support privately? Are these Clubs somehow afraid to show publicly that they supported our case and if so why?

If they’re not brave enough to show their support publicly, I don’t want their support .
 

Nothing , absolutely nothing is ever going to change in this country football wise . There was a chance when rangers were demoted to change the voting system , that was ignored/rejected and now three member clubs and two from the pyramid system have been punished. 

The games ****ed .

 

[wavydavy]

1 minute ago, 3fingersreid said:

If they’re not brave enough to show their support publicly, I don’t want their support .
 

Nothing , absolutely nothing is ever going to change in this country football wise . There was a chance when rangers were demoted to change the voting system , that was ignored/rejected and now three member clubs and two from the pyramid system have been punished. 

The games ****ed .

 

 

Why though? What are they afraid of is what I don't understand?

[David Black]

Just now, wavydavy said:

 

Maybe this could be the way forward but the winds of change take forever with the dinosaurs that run the majority of Scottish Clubs.

 

Money is their main driving force and they would be terrified that any league without the Old Firm in it would not get the backing of the TV companies which is where the big money is.

 

There are a few clubs that are more progerssive and perhaps open to change but the majority feel safer with what they know.

 

I wonder if our Benefactors might have some influence on being able to sponsor or assist with a setting something like this up?

I genuinely think the majority of supporters of other full time clubs would rather be in a league without the OF as it would give them a better chance of winning a trophy and more often. That is what fans want and if the product was good on the pitch then we would get that TV deal. You may well have a point re the benefactors as well. One governing body, full time clubs, more chances of success, no bigots infesting our grounds. What's not to like. Surely it is worthy of discussion amongst clubs.

[3fingersreid]

Just now, wavydavy said:

 

Why though? What are they afraid of is what I don't understand?

I’m the same , I’m guessing they’re frightened of change, fines for daring to break from the status quo , who knows but until they do develop a back bone they allow the bully to win . 
Hopefully one day it’ll be them that suffer and when they turn to Hearts and Partick for help they are politely told to go and **** themselves .

[Rods]

I am not getting why sky are involved in our fixture list?

 

Its not like they will be showing any games.

[Pasquale for King]

24 minutes ago, johnthomas said:

So you think the SFA/SPFL have some influence on legal judgements ?

They picked the list of people who we had to choose from, all impartial no doubt as all lawyers etc are pure as the driven snow.

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, Rods said:

I am not getting why sky are involved in our fixture list?

 

Its not like they will be showing any games.

Are they involved? Maybe showing some games?

Edited July 28, 2020 by Pasquale for King

[wavydavy]

2 minutes ago, 3fingersreid said:

I’m the same , I’m guessing they’re frightened of change, fines for daring to break from the status quo , who knows but until they do develop a back bone they allow the bully to win . 
Hopefully one day it’ll be them that suffer and when they turn to Hearts and Partick for help they are politely told to go and **** themselves .

 

👍

[David Black]

8 minutes ago, Riccarton3 said:

You can check out any time you like but you can never leave

That had me thinking for a few mins. Hotel California. I recently downloaded from Youtube footage of an Eagles Concert in Melbourne 2005 . Absolutely brilliant.

[3fingersreid]

2 minutes ago, David Black said:

I genuinely think the majority of supporters of other full time clubs would rather be in a league without the OF as it would give them a better chance of winning a trophy and more often. That is what fans want and if the product was good on the pitch then we would get that TV deal. You may well have a point re the benefactors as well. One governing body, full time clubs, more chances of success, no bigots infesting our grounds. What's not to like. Surely it is worthy of discussion amongst clubs.

A league without that two and the power they hold behind the scenes is exactly what is required . Let them play each other in the greatest derby in the world 36 times a season .

A proper competitive league , what’s not to like ?

[Newton51]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

Are they involved? When are they announced? 

announcement Wednesday at 2 on sky

[Martin_T]

2 hours ago, TheOak88 said:

 

Nail on the head there, mate. This thread is about as embarrassing as the .net 2012 cup final match day thread. 

 

Complete fantasists, and armchair legal experts telling each other that “we have a solid case”. Tales of huge compensation packages that are gonna sink clubs like St Mirren and Hamilton Accies, and how we will laugh when it happens.

 

Everyone else in Scottish Football punditry and media (bar a handful) were calling it spot on, that we would get nothing, and just to take our medicine. 

 

I think this is a very salient point. There were a number of credible, independent legal voices who said that either the case had no chance or a slim chance, for some reason their opinions and arguments were largely dismissed. Forums likes this are an echo chamber, people like what they want to hear, but they are often not reflective of the weight of opinion in a wider sense.

 

Whilst it's obviously unfair that we were relegated in this circumstance, I think it's also deflected away from some of the incompetent decisions that led to our club being bottom of the league to begin with.

[Riccarton3]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

They picked the list of people who we had to choose from, all impartial no doubt as all lawyers etc are pure as the driven snow.

Yes. The SPFL seemed desperate for it to go to arbitration. Wonder why? Why not through the court because Doncaster was confident of their case as he's expressed subsequently. Great opportunity to really stick it the clubs in open court. Open goal, surely.

 

 

[wavydavy]

5 minutes ago, David Black said:

I genuinely think the majority of supporters of other full time clubs would rather be in a league without the OF as it would give them a better chance of winning a trophy and more often. That is what fans want and if the product was good on the pitch then we would get that TV deal. You may well have a point re the benefactors as well. One governing body, full time clubs, more chances of success, no bigots infesting our grounds. What's not to like. Surely it is worthy of discussion amongst clubs.

 

I am not convinced about the other clubs fans wanting to be in a league without the old firm. There are far too many of these places that have hoards of Old Firm supporting fans who would never go near their home Grounds in the likes of Motherwell, Hamilton etc.

[Pasquale for King]

5 minutes ago, Newton51 said:

announcement Wednesday at 2 on sky

Sorry missed that and edited it 🙈.

[Pasquale for King]

5 minutes ago, Riccarton3 said:

Yes. The SPFL seemed desperate for it to go to arbitration. Wonder why? Why not through the court because Doncaster was confident of their case as he's expressed subsequently. Great opportunity to really stick it the clubs in open court. Open goal, surely.

 

 

That’s probably why it’s in their rules, a kangaroo court behind closed doors, how very apt for Scottish Football at this time.  

[Riccarton3]

2 minutes ago, Martin_T said:

 

I think this is a very salient point. There were a number of credible, independent legal voices who said that either the case had no chance or a slim chance, for some reason their opinions and arguments were largely dismissed. Forums likes this are an echo chamber, people like what they want to hear, but they are often not reflective of the weight of opinion in a wider sense.

 

Whilst it's obviously unfair that we were relegated in this circumstance, I think it's also deflected away from some of the incompetent decisions that led to our club being bottom of the league to begin with.

I have read lot of the thread. Pages and pages of why we were bottom and how it could be separated from the issue of a reduced season due to a global pandemic. Almost without exception everyone got it. What a lot of people don't get is how tight the football authorities are at protecting their interests to the point that any legal recourse is blunted. I have read nowhere where this is explained by any journalist or pundit.

[John Findlay]

37 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

Do you know what irks me about this statement is the fact that Jaqui Low is aware of  quote " people and Clubs who stood by us publicly and PRIVATELY.

 

So why is it that Partick and presumably us had support privately? Are these Clubs somehow afraid to show publicly that they supported our case and if so why?

Cowards.

[Riccarton3]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

That’s probably why it’s in their rules, a kangaroo court behind closed doors, how very apt for Scottish Football at this time.  

Anybody thinking it's any other way is just on here mischief making or have had a short life 'involved' with Scottish football.

[Rods]

13 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Are they involved? Maybe showing some games?

 

They are announcing the league fixtures tomorrow at 12.

 

I was under the impression they would only show premier league games

[Rogue Daddy]

4 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

I am not convinced about the other clubs fans wanting to be in a league without the old firm. There are far too many of these places that have hoards of Old Firm supporting fans who would never go near their home Grounds in the likes of Motherwell, Hamilton etc.

Speaking for the premier league, they're too afraid to lose the OF £'s. St Johnstone give them 2/3 stands ffs! It's only really us, sheep & vermin that could cope without the uglies… the others have no backbone and rely on the uglie's coat-tails.

 

The rest of the leagues would probably vote for anything that will give them extra funding.

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

Please ayr utd or dundee at Tynecastle park first game 

[Fedupfan]

41 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

Your last paragraph.  
 

Don’t you wonder why? Because they know of the closed shop, jobs for the boys, shower of shite shysters that run the game. The hub of the media is through there too, intertwined with it all. 
 

Ffs man, come on Oak.  I didn’t expect 10m, 8m or even a pound. I didn’t expect reinstatement. I wanted my club to stand up to them even in the knowledge of them being a bunch of crooks who’d only vote one way.  

Your last paragraph.

 

It was an independent panel, they weren't SFA or SPFL employees that judged the case. They have the facts put to them, the listen to the QC,s for every side, look at the evidence, listen to witnesses and then decide impartially. To think otherwise is straw clutching.

[Fedupfan]

2 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Please ayr utd or dundee at Tynecastle park first game 

First games could be BCD or at most will be vastly reduced fans allowed 

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, smiler said:

Wine gives me indigestion, it's the electrolytes or summit.

 

Wine is shite Tbh. 

[Lone Striker]

20 minutes ago, David Black said:

I am giving up until there is fundamental change both at Hearts and Scottish football. I have supported this club since the late 50's through good, bad and average and the one thing that keeps coming back to me is that whilst I despise the OF more than anyone, their support has one thing we don't have and that is they do not accept mediocrity. For a club of our size and its latent support, since the 50's we have underperformed every season since, bar 85/86. Nothing has changed in the last 5 years, the majority on here don't like criticism of how the club is being run, they just accept mediocrity as the norm. Something has to change. The only thing that Directors of any club notice is a lack of bums on seats. The argument of I am starving the club of my money is correct in the short term, but in the longer term if more were to do the same it might actually influence things. To change anything in life you have to stand up and be counted and in my small way that is what I am doing. Over the last 2 years I actually know more Hearts supporters who have stopped going for the exact same reasons , than guys who I know go. I know we will go back at some point but It will require that change. The amount of money this board has wasted is criminal, but you point out that fact many don't like it. Sorry for the length of my post.

I do understand your points of view David, and many on here probably do too.  The 2 bits in bold are examples that many would agree with.   Having said that, what is mediocrity ? How do you measure it ?  Points ? League position ? Goals scored ?   Being beaten by Hibs  ?     I think you  (and all of us) need a dose of realism to soften  your anger a bit about all this.     For example, in the last 35 years, we've only seriously been league challengers in the final weeks of the season 3 times - not good enough you might say - but that also doesn't mean that every one of the other 32 years have been poor/mediocre.   

 

Outside of the OF, all clubs ebb and flow throughout the decades.   Aberdeen had a great spell under Fergie ... then hit "mediocrity" under several managers, and are back in a good spell under McInnes.   In a league totally and permanently dominated by the OF,   the rest of us all just hoping for a few glimpses of relative good times - but thats all they're ever likely to be ..... brief glimpses.

 

If that's not good enough for you, then fair enough .... but its the reality we all have to face up to.   Being able to watch the occasional star like Robbo or Rudi makes it tolerable and worthwhile.  Not enough of these types going about unfortunately. 

 

[Riccarton3]

2 minutes ago, Fedupfan said:

Your last paragraph.

 

It was an independent panel, they weren't SFA or SPFL employees that judged the case. They have the facts put to them, the listen to the QC,s for every side, look at the evidence, listen to witnesses and then decide impartially. To think otherwise is straw clutching.

Why were they so keen on arbitration? What difference did it make to either side's case? What makes arbitration a more attractive proposition to the spfl?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

3 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Please ayr utd or dundee at Tynecastle park first game 

I want Ayr, Dundee, Raith, Alloa, Dunfermline and Inverness in the first set of home games because it is more likely that the return fixtures will allow crowds. In return, 5 see completely empty away ends and 1 sees the Jambos on tour. That would be

[hmfc_liam06]

20 minutes ago, Martin_T said:

 

I think this is a very salient point. There were a number of credible, independent legal voices who said that either the case had no chance or a slim chance, for some reason their opinions and arguments were largely dismissed. Forums likes this are an echo chamber, people like what they want to hear, but they are often not reflective of the weight of opinion in a wider sense.

 

Whilst it's obviously unfair that we were relegated in this circumstance, I think it's also deflected away from some of the incompetent decisions that led to our club being bottom of the league to begin with.

 

Agree. I spoke at length with my cousins husband, who's a lawyer, and it was his opinion that our arguments were weak and never likely to succeed.

 

I trusted his input more than folk on here, that's for sure.

[Section Q]

51 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

Do you know what irks me about this statement is the fact that Jaqui Low is aware of  quote " people and Clubs who stood by us publicly and PRIVATELY.

 

So why is it that Partick and presumably us had support privately? Are these Clubs somehow afraid to show publicly that they supported our case and if so why?

Private financial support for court costs.

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

7 minutes ago, Fedupfan said:

First games could be BCD or at most will be vastly reduced fans allowed 

Yeah right enough fair point 

[Rods]

I reckon most of the season will be played behind closed doors with a second wave coming. 

[Boof]

I can just about guarantee that our away fixture to ICT will be BCD. 

 

And if not it'll be shifted to the Friday night.

[Pasquale for King]

17 minutes ago, Rods said:

 

They are announcing the league fixtures tomorrow at 12.

 

I was under the impression they would only show premier league games

I suppose we will find out tomorrow, can’t see why they would be that interested if they weren’t showing the big games 🤷🏾‍♂️🤔🙈.

[hunts]

Sure sky or BT showed the Dundee derbies last season 

[Pasquale for King]

8 minutes ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

Agree. I spoke at length with my cousins husband, who's a lawyer, and it was his opinion that our arguments were weak and never likely to succeed.

 

I trusted his input more than folk on here, that's for sure.

It seems to have been more successful in other countries though, so you can see where the optimism came from. 

[Riccarton3]

Just now, Pasquale for King said:

It seems to have been more successful in other countries though, so you can see where the optimism came from. 

Every body's an expert now, don't you know?

[SectionDJambo]

19 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

Why though? What are they afraid of is what I don't understand?

You're assuming that we are dealing with an open society here, but we aren't. This is a protection racket run by the SFA and SPFL, where being subservient to the dark forces behind both of those deceitful organisations, keeps you in favour and out of trouble.

You only need to look at the clubs who benefited from the Good Friday stitch up. Most important to the cabal, keeping Celtic happy, then no relegation or play off risks for Ross County, Hamilton and St. Mirren.

Hearts going into the Championship, as a temporary cash cow for the loyal clubs in there, and just for the spite of hurting a club who have shown how determination and loyalty from fans can overcome near extinction. Partick Thistle sent to the 1st division as the cash cow for them. Remember the Forfar loudmouth, who actually admitted wanting Partick demoted for the gate money.

Brechin City escape as the only team to finish bottom, not to be relegated or having to play off for survival. All of the Fife clubs spared from their worst nightmare of Kelty Hearts coming into the leagues and embarrassing them with their ambition. Brora Rangers seen as being too far away to travel to for a team from Glasgow. The excuse given as the SFA not being able fit these play offs in, but we can still finish the Scottish Cup.

We've still to see what Dundee have been promised, but the easing of the number of loan players, from Premiership clubs allowed to each lower league club, could reveal part of it. 

Scottish football was suspected of behind closed doors shenanigans during my early years of following football in the 60s and 70s. Nothing was made outwardly obvious though. Now they don't even try to hide it, and the Scottish press are a major part of the propaganda narrative, with the succulent lamb mob and whatever they get served up by the current dictators.

Scottish football and it's media coverage stinks to high heaven.

[Homme]

14 minutes ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

Agree. I spoke at length with my cousins husband, who's a lawyer, and it was his opinion that our arguments were weak and never likely to succeed.

 

I trusted his input more than folk on here, that's for sure.

 

Tbf that about as tedious a link as people who were optimistic where getting their optimism from! 

 

 

[DETTY29]

I'm sure Dundee won't complain when they get 4 players from Celtic on loan.

[David Black]

16 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

I do understand your points of view David, and many on here probably do too.  The 2 bits in bold are examples that many would agree with.   Having said that, what is mediocrity ? How do you measure it ?  Points ? League position ? Goals scored ?   Being beaten by Hibs  ?     I think you  (and all of us) need a dose of realism to soften  your anger a bit about all this.     For example, in the last 35 years, we've only seriously been league challengers in the final weeks of the season 3 times - not good enough you might say - but that also doesn't mean that every one of the other 32 years have been poor/mediocre.   

 

Outside of the OF, all clubs ebb and flow throughout the decades.   Aberdeen had a great spell under Fergie ... then hit "mediocrity" under several managers, and are back in a good spell under McInnes.   In a league totally and permanently dominated by the OF,   the rest of us all just hoping for a few glimpses of relative good times - but thats all they're ever likely to be ..... brief glimpses.

 

If that's not good enough for you, then fair enough .... but its the reality we all have to face up to.   Being able to watch the occasional star like Robbo or Rudi makes it tolerable and worthwhile.  Not enough of these types going about unfortunately. 

 

I take your points, but a club of our size and support, the money spent by those supporters should mean that bar the odd season, 3rd or 4th is the lowest we should ever be. I am not suggesting we should be winning the league, but we should be qualifying for Europe every year bar those odd seasons. These should be the minimum the Hearts support should accept. That should be the aim of the support, the management and the board. 

[Newton51]

Worth a listen 

 

 

[JamboAl]

1 hour ago, David Black said:

I am giving up until there is fundamental change both at Hearts and Scottish football. I have supported this club since the late 50's through good, bad and average and the one thing that keeps coming back to me is that whilst I despise the OF more than anyone, their support has one thing we don't have and that is they do not accept mediocrity. For a club of our size and its latent support, since the 50's we have underperformed every season since, bar 85/86. Nothing has changed in the last 5 years, the majority on here don't like criticism of how the club is being run, the just accept mediocrity as the norm. Something has to change. The only thing that Directors of any club notice is a lack of bums on seats. The argument of I am starving the club of my money is correct in the short term, but in the longer term if more were to do the same it might actually influence things. To change anything in life you have to stand up and be counted and in my small way that is what I am doing. Over the last 2 years I actually know more Hearts supporters who have stopped going for the exact same reasons , than guys who I know go. I know we will go back at some point but It will require that change. The amount of money this board has wasted is criminal, but you point out that fact many don't like it. Sorry for the length of my post.

That's right.  Come back when we're winning.

[Old Pivotonian]

'“A blow, expected, repeated, falling upon a bruise. With no smart or shock of surprise, only a dull and sickening pain and the doubt whether another like it could be borne.” Evelyn Waugh  1945.      He could have written it yesterday.

[hmfc_liam06]

9 minutes ago, Homme said:

 

Tbf that about as tedious a link as people who were optimistic where getting their optimism from! 

 

 

 

👍

[John Findlay]

15 minutes ago, hunts said:

Sure sky or BT showed the Dundee derbies last season 

It was BT. However we now only have a major tv deal with a sole broadcaster, that broadcaster being Sky.

[TheBigO]

4 minutes ago, David Black said:

I take your points, but a club of our size and support, the money spent by those supporters should mean that bar the odd season, 3rd or 4th is the lowest we should ever be. I am not suggesting we should be winning the league, but we should be qualifying for Europe every year bar those odd seasons. These should be the minimum the Hearts support should accept. That should be the aim of the support, the management and the board. 

Hm, but if you look at the all time SPL league table up to 2013, we're streets ahead in 3rd place.  Then Aberdeen then another jump to 5th.

 

We had admin due to a mad owner and a worldwide financial crisis.  We came back.  We've since put the football in the hands of Levein, who has failed.

 

Basically we've been shite for three years.

 

Yes, I think we should never be below 4th and I have no doubt that is the aim of all at the club.  But we've made some bad decisions in the last couple of years.

 

Walk away?  Na.

 

Walk away from the rest of Scottish football.  Yeah.

[jamboinglasgow]

3 minutes ago, Newton51 said:

Worth a listen 

 

 

 

Dont fancy listening to Raith Rovers gloating about this.