SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[BelgeJambo]

19 minutes ago, rmreido said:

Extra Scup semis/final to squeeze in, plus extra internationals

Only one game, possibly 2

how many teams are really affected by international breaks.

Surely they are capable of arranging games for teams not affected by international break

 

naw, probably wishful thinking 

[A_A wehatethehibs]

4 minutes ago, Jambo66 said:

I do not know exactly how arbitration works, but it is entirely possible that the decision has been made and was provided to the parties yesterday in draft.

 

This gives the parties a chance to correct obvious mistakes, before the decision is finalised on Monday. The reason it may be done this way is that if there is to be any sort of appeal, it is essential that the decision doesn't include any statements made by the parties that are inaccurate.

 

In these circumstances, the parties will be bound by confidentiality rules to say nothing publicly.

 

I am involved in a court case in another jurisdiction where this is precisely what is happening at the moment. I know what the decision is, but it will not be published until next week.

 

I am not saying that is what is happening here, but I think it may well be a possibility.

I think most folk are of the view that when there’s a result, one of the clowns who run the Scottish game will text their mates at BBC Glasgow or red tops. Thats the way these amateurs work, these guys can’t even spell the word confidentiality let alone understand what it means. 

Edited July 25, 2020 by A_A wehatethehibs

[GinRummy]

2 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

I would have said that it's the opposite. 

 

We want the status not cash and the SPFL don't want to fork out everything they just earned. 

 

Don't see sense in compensation for anyone 

Do you think it is possible (if the arbitration panel has ruled in our favour) that the spfl would be given a choice of reinstatement or a large compensation payment?

[Mikey1874]

4 minutes ago, Jambo66 said:

I do not know exactly how arbitration works, but it is entirely possible that the decision has been made and was provided to the parties yesterday in draft.

 

This gives the parties a chance to correct obvious mistakes, before the decision is finalised on Monday. The reason it may be done this way is that if there is to be any sort of appeal, it is essential that the decision doesn't include any statements made by the parties that are inaccurate.

 

In these circumstances, the parties will be bound by confidentiality rules to say nothing publicly.

 

I am involved in a court case in another jurisdiction where this is precisely what is happening at the moment. I know what the decision is, but it will not be published until next week.

 

I am not saying that is what is happening here, but I think it may well be a possibility.

 

Good way to do things.

[Nookie Bear]

52 minutes ago, Hairdryer said:

If the vote goes in favour of hearts 

and Partick thistle then the only

sensible outcome would have to be reconstruction .To demote Dundee United is a bit harsh

Not when they should never have been so swiftly promoted in the first place. 

[Biffa Bacon]

48 minutes ago, Super_Hans said:

There we go. Dick Gordon letting his impartiality slip right there. Hearts should blame the players for being rubbish.

 

Speccy prick.

Agreed, no mention of the English Championship where bottom 5 clubs escaped relegation with 6 games to go. He couldn't think of a club with potentially 3 international squad players either, Dick by name ......

[Mikey1874]

1 minute ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

I think most folk are of the view that when there’s a result, one of the clowns who run the Scottish game will text their mates at BBC Glasgow or red tops. Thats the way these amateurs work, these guys can’t even spell the word confidentiality let alone understand what it means. 

 

You would certainly think a defeat for us would have been announced in The Sun  and Daily Record if not by the SPFL.

 

But also this is still in the court system. It could be the delay is there. 

[Rick Sanchez]

The SPFL have maybe requested a different person/team tally up our loss of income to try and get a cheaper compensation deal.

[niblick1874]

3 hours ago, David Black said:

Maybe any delay in announcing the outcome is that there is major negotiations going on between Hearts/Partick, the SPFL and all other clubs. There are several scenarios that that could cover, but I would think that if this was the case, then we have won. If the SPFL have won then there is nothing to negotiate.

 

I don't want that for so many reasons. If we have won, or win, we must not have any negotiations behind closed doors.  

[ramrod]

There's no way they've reached a decision already . 

Maybe the 3 panel members are taking the weekend to mull over the evidence and will come to a decision on Monday , assuming as has been hinted recently that all the evidence has been heard . 

If they had already informed the two parties of the decision it wouid be out there now by hook or by crook , guaranteed. 

[Jammy T]

11 minutes ago, Jambo66 said:

I do not know exactly how arbitration works, but it is entirely possible that the decision has been made and was provided to the parties yesterday in draft.

 

This gives the parties a chance to correct obvious mistakes, before the decision is finalised on Monday. The reason it may be done this way is that if there is to be any sort of appeal, it is essential that the decision doesn't include any statements made by the parties that are inaccurate.

 

In these circumstances, the parties will be bound by confidentiality rules to say nothing publicly.

 

I am involved in a court case in another jurisdiction where this is precisely what is happening at the moment. I know what the decision is, but it will not be published until next week.

 

I am not saying that is what is happening here, but I think it may well be a possibility.

Agreed.

 

As another lawyer can you tell me any circumstances you can envisage where we get compensation not reinstatement as so many on here are saying.

 

As I see it we win the argument and reinstatement is the primary remedy eg we are put back in the position we would have been but for the unlawful act.

 

Compensation is a safety net just in case reinstatement is impossible.

 

Have I missed something?

 

 

Edited July 25, 2020 by Jammy T

[manaliveits105]

If we win - its reinstatement - not interested in - its least harm for everyone everyone if league allowed to proceed and Hearts /Partick relegated and compensated  - the spfl (guilty party) have deliberately dragged this out for that purpose and under no circumstances should they be allowed to succeed with further skullduggery aided and abetted by the weegia.

 

FTH FTSPFL FTSFA & FTBBC (keep away from Tynecastle  Dick)

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

7 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Do you think it is possible (if the arbitration panel has ruled in our favour) that the spfl would be given a choice of reinstatement or a large compensation payment?

I think reinstatement. 

 

Would have thought they would have been doing some scenario planning 

[Ski Nae]

17 minutes ago, ducatiboy said:

BBC , I pay you good money like all of us, are you really telling me Willie Miller is the best you can do, it's utterly embarrassing his lack of media training, a slavering dinosaur# switched off

 

Very true. 

I found them irritating when there was football. 

Now, they are intolerable. 

 

Tom English, Michael Stewart, and Tam Cowan (the Motherwell guy from Off the Ball) I have got respect for. Neil McCann as well. 

 

Richard "Dick" Gordon? 

As suggested by someone, if he gets nailed to a wall, I'll take the family to throw the contents of our food bin at him. 

[Jambof3tornado]

8 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

 

Both reinstatement and compensation have massive implications.

 

Redoing the fixtures or clubs having to slash their budgets.

 

Massive.

 

So giving the SPFL a bit of time to work out a plan. Given they may never have considered suffering a defeat. 

 

Its certainly a scenario. 

Could be wishful thinking but certainly if we were down and out I do think the SPFL would have leaked the news!!

[John mcCartney]

 

8 minutes ago, RobNox said:

Did Peel play your cassette on air?

Not as far as im aware Rob. I reckon its policy to not to play demo tapes on air.
However he did play a track off an album I played on previous to that episode and the track in question was one I had mostly written so was ecstatic when I heard it being played on his show one night unexpectedly.
The Matter Babies,Edinburgh band and released 1989 iirc.Skinnydipping lp.Track was `Happy Mangoe`,recorded at Chambers Studios,off Western Approach Rd at Westfield.Not a bad Pixies sound a like tune.Wasnt intentional altho thats what we were all listening to at the time.

FTA

[Lone Striker]

10 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

It may be the most practical but it's certainly not what I want. I want us reinstated, I'm sick of football finances, I don't give a stuff about them. I want to see Hearts back where they belong competing for the European places in the top league.

 

Anyone who wants compensation rather than that needs to reassess why they follow football imo.

I also wanted us re-instated ... but have re-considered things due to the simple time practicalities.

 

I know full well why I follow Hearts  - and I don't want to see our players rushed into playing competitive matches without proper preparation, thereby increasing the risk of injury.   

[Feldy Jambo]

37 minutes ago, MCW1976 said:

The sneering towards Hearts by Willie Miller and Richard Gordon reached a new low today.

Fully agree; that red clown Richard Gordon‘s animosity towards us was so obvious. 

Edited July 25, 2020 by Feldy Jambo

[AllyjamboDerbyshire]

Just now, Taffin said:

 

It may be the most practical but it's certainly not what I want. I want us reinstated, I'm sick of football finances, I don't give a stuff about them. I want to see Hearts back where they belong competing for the European places in the top league.

 

Anyone who wants compensation rather than that needs to reassess why they follow football imo.

Totally agree.

[David Black]

1 minute ago, niblick1874 said:

 

I don't want that for so many reasons. If we have won, or win, we must not have any negotiations behind closed doors.  

I think any negotiations will be behind closed doors. If we have won, allowing negotiations does not mean we are giving up on reinstatement, it merely means the SPFL and all other clubs are having to agree on how they deal with the consequences and how they deal with it. Having won Hearts may nor even be part of the negotiations.

[J.T.F.Robertson]

1 hour ago, harrywragg said:

**** sake that looks reassuring 🤪 🤣

 

If you harbour reservations about it, it looks as if you could still manage to squeeze yourself doon the sides.

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

7 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

 

Both reinstatement and compensation have massive implications.

 

Redoing the fixtures or clubs having to slash their budgets.

 

Massive.

 

So giving the SPFL a bit of time to work out a plan. Given they may never have considered suffering a defeat. 

 

Its certainly a scenario. 

 

The first one is not masive because of the fixtures, it's a non issue. 

The big issue with reinstatement is Utd, cove and raith reactions.

 

Redoing the fixtures is nothing but a admin task, folk need to stop going on about this like it's a massive task. 

 

 

Also, surely if we are reinstated, there will be some money due to the calpol 3 as they were told they would be in a higher division by the spfl, no where near £10m but the spfl will surely be liable to them for some costs. 

 

What a ****ing mess. 

[Horatio Caine]

14 minutes ago, Jambo66 said:

I do not know exactly how arbitration works, but it is entirely possible that the decision has been made and was provided to the parties yesterday in draft.

 

This gives the parties a chance to correct obvious mistakes, before the decision is finalised on Monday. The reason it may be done this way is that if there is to be any sort of appeal, it is essential that the decision doesn't include any statements made by the parties that are inaccurate.

 

In these circumstances, the parties will be bound by confidentiality rules to say nothing publicly.

 

I am involved in a court case in another jurisdiction where this is precisely what is happening at the moment. I know what the decision is, but it will not be published until next week.

 

I am not saying that is what is happening here, but I think it may well be a possibility.

This sounds sensible and quite possible.  Having been involved in writing reports (nothing to do with the law) , the protocol was always to submit a draft of the report to relevant parties for any factual errors to be pointed out and corrected, and also any aspects that were felt to be unfair judgements.  Once that process had completed, the report was then released for wider consumption.

[Jambo61]

33 minutes ago, rmreido said:

Extra Scup semis/final to squeeze in, plus extra internationals

Yet England play 38 league games, finishing their previous season, have more rounds of cup games and longer in Europe, extra internationals and a later new league start date and still have dry pants!

[Lone Striker]

15 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

Practicality,  they said they had an alternative set of fixtures should they lose. 

 

 

That's not what I was getting at, Sir G.   It was the practicality of spending the 5-6 weeks getting ou players up to a level of being able to compete in a league which will already have started ...... even if the SPFL allowed us to delay our fixtures for 5-6 weeks to do that, we'd be playing our 38 games over a much shorter time than everyone else.  Re-instatement sounds good.... but it's likely to take its toll on our team.

[Jambo66]

16 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

I think most folk are of the view that when there’s a result, one of the clowns who run the Scottish game will text their mates at BBC Glasgow or red tops. Thats the way these amateurs work, these guys can’t even spell the word confidentiality let alone understand what it means. 

They seem to have managed to keep their traps shut all week though.

 

If they didn't, they would be in contempt.

[Horatio Caine]

2 minutes ago, Jambo61 said:

Yet England play 38 league games, finishing their previous season, have more rounds of cup games and longer in Europe, extra internationals and a later new league start date and still have dry pants!

You have checked this???

[Taffin]

2 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

I also wanted us re-instated ... but have re-considered things due to the simple time practicalities.

 

I know full well why I follow Hearts  - and I don't want to see our players rushed into playing competitive matches without proper preparation, thereby increasing the risk of injury.   

 

If we're reinstated I'm fairly certain we'll have a couple of empty weeks to get a couple of friendlies in. We don't play a lot more than that normally and most of the EPL only played 1 or 2 games before they restarted and there wasn't a huge surge in injuries 

[Jambo66]

11 minutes ago, Jammy T said:

Agreed.

 

As another lawyer can you tell me any circumstances you can envisage where we get compensation not reinstatement as so many on here are saying.

 

As I see it we win the argument and reinstatement is the primary remedy eg we are put back in the position we would have been but for the unlawful act.

 

Compensation is a safety net just in case reinstatement is impossible.

 

Have I missed something?

 

 

I think that is spot on.

[niblick1874]

3 minutes ago, David Black said:

I think any negotiations will be behind closed doors. If we have won, allowing negotiations does not mean we are giving up on reinstatement, it merely means the SPFL and all other clubs are having to agree on how they deal with the consequences and how they deal with it. Having won Hearts may nor even be part of the negotiations.

 

The way I see it is that if we win it's a case of we get what we went for. There will be no negotiations. The meeting to figure out how long we get for pre season is the only discussion I can think of that we will be involved in. 

[Lone Striker]

7 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

If we're reinstated I'm fairly certain we'll have a couple of empty weeks to get a couple of friendlies in. We don't play a lot more than that normally and most of the EPL only played 1 or 2 games before they restarted and there wasn't a huge surge in injuries 

I think you're underestimating the time needed for Gullane sand dunes stuff, general fitness work and ball work.  The players are still furloughed. Much more than 2 weeks needed for all that.      

[David Black]

5 minutes ago, niblick1874 said:

 

The way I see it is that if we win it's a case of we get what we went for. There will be no negotiations. The meeting to figure out how long we get for pre season is the only discussion I can think of that we will be involved in. 

What I am meaning is that out of courtesy we are allowing the SPFL and the clubs to discuss ( probably a better word ) between themselves how they go about getting themselves out of the mess they got themselves into. We will not be part of that, but are again, being the good guys and giving them time to discuss/negotiate an outcome. 

[manaliveits105]

As Donkey made sure we wouldn’t be training it’s his problem to sort out our fixtures when we win 

As has been said before justice isn’t put to one side just because it might cause a bit of difficulty to the guilty parties 

[GinRummy]

7 minutes ago, jonnothejambo said:

 

Nah. Miller makes Bonner look like a Mensa candidate.

Can’t stand Pat but at least he makes no secret of the fact he’s all Celtic and not really interested in much else. 

[GinRummy]

Just now, manaliveits105 said:

As Donkey made sure we wouldn’t be training it’s his problem to sort out our fixtures when we win 

As has been said before justice isn’t put to one side just because it might cause a bit of difficulty to the guilty parties 

If we win he’ll get canned imo but agree it’s the spfl’s problem. 

[Jambos56]

1 hour ago, GinRummy said:

Richard dick Gordon just hates us. Willie dick Miller really hates rangers but can’t say so on the radio so directs his idiotic ramblings towards us. 

It was the way Gordon sneered  when McCann said some Hearts fans don't want us to compete in the Scottish Cup as the league season wasn't played to a finish.He said that the Scottish Cup is the SFA and the league is  the SPFL 2 separate bodies and wo only have ourselves to blame for being rubbish for 10 Months.

Edited July 25, 2020 by Jambos56

[adam1998]

40 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

I would have said that it's the opposite. 

 

We want the status not cash and the SPFL don't want to fork out everything they just earned. 

 

Don't see sense in compensation for anyone 

Personally I’d love us to stay up however if they didn’t delay the start we’ll suffer massively injury wise as the team will be at various fitness levels. It’s a hard choice to be honest.

 

it would stun Scottish football to the core if we stay up as only Hearts fans think it can happen, compensation will hurt them massively.

 

i just want us to get the moral victory to prove all those wrong, they talk about Sporting Integrity where we’ve seen 9 pts turned round at the top in Spain and bottom 5 saved in England etc....

 

whatever happens bad blood will be around for a long time to come

[GinRummy]

2 minutes ago, Jambos56 said:

It was the way Gordon sneered  when McCann said some Hearts fans don't want us to compete in the Scottish Cup as the league season wasn't played to a finish.He said that the Scottish Cup is the SFA and the league is  the SPFL 2 separate bodies and wo only have ourselves to blame for being rubbish for 10 Months.

Thankfully I didn’t catch that. Listened for a few minutes of willie miller trying to tell the arbitration panel what they should be doing and that was enough for one Saturday 

Edited July 25, 2020 by GinRummy

[niblick1874]

1 minute ago, David Black said:

What I am meaning is that out of courtesy we are allowing the SPFL and the clubs to discuss ( probably a better word ) between themselves how they go about getting themselves out of the mess they got themselves into. We will not be part of that, but are again, being the good guys and giving them time to discuss/negotiate an outcome. 

 

Now I can agree with you. What you first suggested would have spoiled everything we have done right so far ( pretty much everything). Once we know the verdict there is no reason for us to do anything behind closed doors and to do so would be so very wrong. 

[soonbe110]

31 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

I also wanted us re-instated ... but have re-considered things due to the simple time practicalities.

 

I know full well why I follow Hearts  - and I don't want to see our players rushed into playing competitive matches without proper preparation, thereby increasing the risk of injury.   

We won’t be. The SPFL will have to give us 5-6 weeks to get fit before playing a league match. Shouldn’t be a problem. Existing fixture list can stand until early September then we play catch up, during Euro weeks 

[1971fozzy]

1 minute ago, Jambos56 said:

It was the way Gordon sneered  when McCann said some Hearts fans don't want us to compete in the Scottish Cup as the league season wasn't played to a finish.He said that the Scottish Cup is the SFA and the league is  the SPFL 2 separate bodies and wo only have ourselves to blame for being given rubbish for 10 Months.

I hate that dickhead Gordon. Hope that there’s a delay and we get reinstated. Imagining his tears and snorters gets me aroused. 

[Taffin]

5 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

I think you're underestimating the time needed for Gullane sand dunes stuff, general fitness work and ball work.  The players are still furloughed. Much more than 2 weeks needed for all that.      

 

Are gullane sand dunes closed to the public? Unless they are (I don't know, I live in England), there's no reason players couldn't be down there themselves, they're professional athletes and should be keeping themselves in top condition. EPL started contact training end of May and the league started again 17th of June just under 3 weeks later and then had 8 fixtures in less than 6 weeks to contend with. A blank fixture card for us for the first two rounds would give us 3 weeks from today, it's plenty of time.

[rmreido]

28 minutes ago, Jambo61 said:

Yet England play 38 league games, finishing their previous season, have more rounds of cup games and longer in Europe, extra internationals and a later new league start date and still have dry pants!

🤷‍♂️

[Bazzas right boot]

27 minutes ago, Jambo61 said:

Yet England play 38 league games, finishing their previous season, have more rounds of cup games and longer in Europe, extra internationals and a later new league start date and still have dry pants!

 

Championship manages 44 games and the playoffs every season. 

Lower divisions normally play 46 and the extra cup as well. 

 

 

 

[Toxteth O'Grady]

2 minutes ago, Jambos56 said:

It was the way Gordon sneered  when McCann said some Hearts fans don't want us to compete in the Scottish Cup as the league season wasn't played to a finish.He said that the Scottish Cup is the SFA and the league is  the SPFL 2 separate bodies and wo only have ourselves to blame for being rubbish for 10 Months.

He wont be made welcome in Gorgie and he will only have himself to blame for being a sneering welt.

[frankblack]

2 minutes ago, Jambos56 said:

It was the way Gordon sneered  when McCann said some Hearts fans don't want us to compete in the Scottish Cup as the league season wasn't played to a finish.He said that the Scottish Cup is the SFA and the league is  the SPFL 2 separate bodies and wo only have ourselves to blame for being rubbish for 10 Months.

 

Weren't playoffs for promotion/demotion to the bottom league also SFA yet that was cancelled to end the season?  Can't mix and match their standards - either both are cancelled or none are.

[Lone Striker]

4 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

As Donkey made sure we wouldn’t be training it’s his problem to sort out our fixtures when we win 

As has been said before justice isn’t put to one side just because it might cause a bit of difficulty to the guilty parties 

If we are re-instated, the only scenario I can think of which would accommodate a later start to the Premiership  without causing additional fixture congestion would be to shorten the fixtures card.    2 full rounds of matches for a 14 team league, plus 2 rounds after a split - to give 35 or 36 matches including the 4 bigotfests.  There may be another upside to doing that - fewer BCD games prior to October 1st.

 

A possibility for them to consider perhaps ?

[Guest ToqueJambo]

19 minutes ago, jonnothejambo said:

If we are reinstated then there is no way we will be able to play for weeks, given we have had no pre-season due to our current situation, not to mention furloughing etc. 

 

How will that work ? 

 

They can just start the season in October for all clubs and curtail the Premiership if needed. Seems fair.

[Jambos56]

4 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Thankfully I didn’t catch that. Listened for a few minutes of willie miller trying to tell the arbitration panel what they should be doing and that was enough for one Saturday 

I switched it off after that I was fuming!

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, Lone Striker said:

If we are re-instated, the only scenario I can think of which would accommodate a later start to the Premiership  without causing additional fixture congestion would be to shorten the fixtures card.    2 full rounds of matches for a 14 team league, plus 2 rounds after a split - to give 35 or 36 matches including the 4 bigotfests.  There may be another upside to doing that - fewer BCD games prior to October 1st.

 

A possibility for them to consider perhaps ?

The spfl has publicly stated they can’t reconstruct the league without the necessary votes. If we are staying up then united stay down I’d think.