Neil Dongcaster Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 Just now, wavydavy said: I would very much doubt that we would be awarded £8 million. It is a bit like negotiating a pay rise you maybe want 5% but ask for 10% knowing that it is going to be knocked down. We would have to have supporting evidence to show how much we estimate we will lose from the reduced number of games in the Championship and presumably lower prices at the turnstiles to the lost revenue from our commercial actiivities. The overheads are the same no matter what league you play in so I am sure we will have a dossier of figures supporting our claim should the need arise. I agree we are very unlikely to be awarded anything near what we are asking for. I was simply giving an opinion on the question the poster asked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllyjamboDerbyshire Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 Just now, Zico's left foot said: IF the panel was to award full compensation as opposed to reinstate ment, and the SPFL decided they couldn't afford it so offered reconstruction instead, would we have to accept it? Or could we insist on the compensation? Personally I'd prefer to be "back" in the top league by any means possoble but just wondering. You can rest assured that the court or arbitration panel are not going to insist on compensation being the only remedy. And it ihas to be remembered that it is a remedy that is being looked for here and not some sort of punishment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamboelite Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 Just now, wavydavy said: I would very much doubt that we would be awarded £8 million. It is a bit like negotiating a pay rise you maybe want 5% but ask for 10% knowing that it is going to be knocked down. We would have to have supporting evidence to show how much we estimate we will lose from the reduced number of games in the Championship and presumably lower prices at the turnstiles to the lost revenue from our commercial actiivities. The overheads are the same no matter what league you play in so I am sure we will have a dossier of figures supporting our claim should the need arise. You are right and the compensation is determined by external parties to verify that its accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said: Why all this talk of compensation? Compo will only be paid if we end up in the Championship, a league that won't start soon and will not have any promotion next season meaning we stay down for 2 at least. This is no way what we want or is fair. THE only fair and just outcome is A) stay in the Premiership with Utd in the Championship or reconstruction that sees all promoted and no relegation. There can be no other outcome that suits us. When did this get approved? I know Doncaster is eager to get the SPFL Board to be given the poweres to do this but the vote is still to happen is it not? or have I missed something? Edited July 13, 2020 by wavydavy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamboelite Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said: Why all this talk of compensation? Compo will only be paid if we end up in the Championship, a league that won't start soon and will not have any promotion next season meaning we stay down for 2 at least. This is no way what we want or is fair. THE only fair and just outcome is A) stay in the Premiership with Utd in the Championship or reconstruction that sees all promoted and no relegation. There can be no other outcome that suits us. Where has it been confirmed no promotion?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boof Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 26 minutes ago, primrose said: The only fair way to pay compensation would be in a similar fashion. If I was Neil Doncaster I would be looking at my options here, either urgent reconstruction or doing a deal with Hearts and Thistle at say £2.5m per year for 4 years. That way the prize money is only reduced by 10% based on last seasons money. With the new sky deal it will probably be a higher figure than last season so the reduction could be budgeted for over the next 4 seasons. Doesn't sound quite so bad when you say it that way... https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cardsloans/article-1633405/Loan-repayment-calculator.html That site gives £8,000,000 borrowed over 4 years at 8% being repaid at £195,303.38 / month for overall interest charges of £1,374,562.18 and a grand total of £9,374,562.18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoked-Glass Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 5 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said: Why all this talk of compensation? Compo will only be paid if we end up in the Championship, a league that won't start soon and will not have any promotion next season meaning we stay down for 2 at least. This is no way what we want or is fair. THE only fair and just outcome is A) stay in the Premiership with Utd in the Championship or reconstruction that sees all promoted and no relegation. There can be no other outcome that suits us. It starts on 1st aug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7628mm Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 9 minutes ago, Ribble said: Wasn't the money for either Covid testing or community programmes linked to the club? If EF have applied to fund their community programme rather than covid testing then while well intentioned it may then threaten the future of the whole club 5 minutes ago, Montgomery Brewster said: Hookers and marching powder All said and done I suspect the 2nd suggestion over the first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, Neil Dongcaster said: I agree we are very unlikely to be awarded anything near what we are asking for. I was simply giving an opinion on the question the poster asked. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baxterd1974 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 1 minute ago, wavydavy said: I would very much doubt that we would be awarded £8 million. It is a bit like negotiating a pay rise you maybe want 5% but ask for 10% knowing that it is going to be knocked down. We would have to have supporting evidence to show how much we estimate we will lose from the reduced number of games in the Championship and presumably lower prices at the turnstiles to the lost revenue from our commercial actiivities. The overheads are the same no matter what league you play in so I am sure we will have a dossier of figures supporting our claim should the need arise. Agree with the first part, 8m is complete pie in the sky and if there is compensation it will be nowhere near that figure. Suapect overheads will be different for each league though. Lower policing costs, lower stewarding costs, lower salaries etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllyjamboDerbyshire Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 Just now, wavydavy said: When did this get approved? I know Doncaster is eager to get the SPFL Board to be given the poweres to do this but the vote is still to happen is it not? or have I missed something? You are right, but would you want to risk Hearts' future on there still being promotion at the end of next season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooperstar Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 39 minutes ago, graygo said: This post. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie wallace Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 15 minutes ago, wavydavy said: When did this get approved? I know Doncaster is eager to get the SPFL Board to be given the poweres to do this but the vote is still to happen is it not? or have I missed something? I am sure it was a proposal by the SPFL if there was another outbreak of Covid or any other extraordinary circumstances. Don't think it had gone any further than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Jambo Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 41 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said: Ha! True though. The club came through for the fans, and that’s all I expect. 100% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Findlay Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, willie wallace said: I am sure it was a proposal by the SPFL if there was another outbreak of Covid or any other extraordinary circumstances. Don't think it had gone any further than that. Meant to be a vote this week. If the clubs approve this, then it really does prove the lunatics are running the asylum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¼½¾ Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 22 minutes ago, Boof said: Doesn't sound quite so bad when you say it that way... https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cardsloans/article-1633405/Loan-repayment-calculator.html That site gives £8,000,000 borrowed over 4 years at 8% being repaid at £195,303.38 / month for overall interest charges of £1,374,562.18 and a grand total of £9,374,562.18 As long as they remember, when paying out future prize monies, that ours shouldn't be reduced, otherwise they'd have to compensate us for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diadora Van Basten Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 22 minutes ago, baxterd1974 said: Agree with the first part, 8m is complete pie in the sky and if there is compensation it will be nowhere near that figure. Suapect overheads will be different for each league though. Lower policing costs, lower stewarding costs, lower salaries etc I think it’s a pretty reasonable guess our turnover was 15 million last year. I reckon the last Championship season it was about £7 million and that was before the fact that the league is only 27 games and there is no Hibs or Rangers this time. £8 million would seem about right in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Jambo Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 1 hour ago, I.T.K said: We've got to stick together this week... They can take their dodgy vote, but the'll never stop....... our revocation! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex member of the SaS Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 28 minutes ago, Jamboelite said: Where has it been confirmed no promotion?. Whilst it has not been mentioned officially it has been suggested this will happen due to the Championship not completing a full season. Would you happily take the money not knowing whether or not there will be promotion? Should it transpire compo is the way forward we MUST get it in writing there will be promotion, as with all the ill will floating about, you can bet they would vote no should it come to that. I personally wouldn't take the risk, would you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_T Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 A concern that I have regarding a Championship season with an October start, is that the timing could coincide with emergence of a second wave of Covid-19. It would surely be better just to start in August and then shorten the season if necessary? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewB Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 8 minutes ago, John Findlay said: Meant to be a vote this week. If the clubs approve this, then it really does prove the lunatics are running the asylum. This is the last I heard on it... https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53167718 28 days from 24th June, which would take us to 22nd July at the latest. The report contains this magnificent bit at the end. If they'd been able to organise a vote properly before, this statement wouldn't be needed: Clubs have 28 days to respond and have been informed if their voting return backs the resolution they cannot later change their decision. If the board receives enough support prior to the 28-day period the resolution will pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllyjamboDerbyshire Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 Just now, Ex member of the SaS said: Whilst it has not been mentioned officially it has been suggested this will happen due to the Championship not completing a full season. Would you happily take the money not knowing whether or not there will be promotion? Should it transpire compo is the way forward we MUST get it in writing there will be promotion, as with all the ill will floating about, you can bet they would vote no should it come to that. I personally wouldn't take the risk, would you? Totally agree. Most of the other clubs appear to be getting rather vindictive and would sell their souls (to the devil that is the SPFL) if they thought they could put one over on us by keeping us down for another season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Bishop Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 7 minutes ago, Martin_T said: A concern that I have regarding a Championship season with an October start, is that the timing could coincide with emergence of a second wave of Covid-19. It would surely be better just to start in August and then shorten the season if necessary? 2nd wave based on what? The media? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Bishop Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 Confirmed, Reason you havent heard much of Michael Stewart on BBC. Celtic Football Club (from @CelticFC 59m Exciting matchday line-up confirmed for your Pass to Paradise! These stars will join our existing @CelticTV presentation team and will feature across the season: @chris_sutton73 @JohnHartson10 Gordon Strachan @mstewart_23 @HamiltonRory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllyjamboDerbyshire Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 While trying hard not to join the ranks of the extreme pessimists, I can't help but wonder if the decision to delay appointing a sporting director, something probably less necessary in the Championship, isn't linked to some indication our board have received regarding our chances of winning our case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Beni of Gorgie Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 9 minutes ago, Walter Bishop said: 2nd wave based on what? The media? Tea leaves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovecraft Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 1 minute ago, Sir Gio said: Tea leaves Bat infused tea bags Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanjambo Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 1 minute ago, AllyjamboDerbyshire said: While trying hard not to join the ranks of the extreme pessimists, I can't help but wonder if the decision to delay appointing a sporting director, something probably less necessary in the Championship, isn't linked to some indication our board have received regarding our chances of winning our case. I've been thinking the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RENE Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 3 hours ago, milky_26 said: CoS i assume he means court of session, rather than CAS Picked it up wrong. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie wallace Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 16 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said: Whilst it has not been mentioned officially it has been suggested this will happen due to the Championship not completing a full season. Would you happily take the money not knowing whether or not there will be promotion? Should it transpire compo is the way forward we MUST get it in writing there will be promotion, as with all the ill will floating about, you can bet they would vote no should it come to that. I personally wouldn't take the risk, would you? Surely this would have to be dealt with before the Premier League starts. They can't announce after the season starts that there will be no relegation this year,no need to panic lads. Or can they🤥 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 11 minutes ago, Walter Bishop said: Confirmed, Reason you havent heard much of Michael Stewart on BBC. Celtic Football Club (from @CelticFC 59m Exciting matchday line-up confirmed for your Pass to Paradise! These stars will join our existing @CelticTV presentation team and will feature across the season: @chris_sutton73 @JohnHartson10 Gordon Strachan @mstewart_23 @HamiltonRory Jesus, imagine whoring yourself for those disgusting minks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 5 minutes ago, AllyjamboDerbyshire said: While trying hard not to join the ranks of the extreme pessimists, I can't help but wonder if the decision to delay appointing a sporting director, something probably less necessary in the Championship, isn't linked to some indication our board have received regarding our chances of winning our case. We had a Sporting Director in the Championship last time, so don't see what your point is? Ann needs someone to be a bridge between the Board and Football side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo_74 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 11 minutes ago, Walter Bishop said: 2nd wave based on what? The media? The WHO have been quoted as saying a second wave is likely due to the lack of a vaccination and the lifting of lock down restrictions. If we continue to lift travel bans and remove social distancing, the likelihood is that there will be far more direct contact allowing the virulence of Covid to rapidly drive infections upwards again. The biggest concern is moving into winter without a vaccine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartsofgold Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 1 hour ago, jambo-in-furness said: Compensation is not profit, the only benefit compensation brings is the hardship it might cause the clubs that have to come up with the readies. It's pure profit it, as we always do, the Jambo army turn up in significant numbers at Tynecastle and spend loads in the shop etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troy Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Horatio Caine said: Is there any chance that it's actually under way, just that it's all BCD and very hush hush? That’s my thoughts ,so tonight or tomorrow will tell as that gives time for the cos to step in if need be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartsofgold Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 18 minutes ago, Walter Bishop said: 2nd wave based on what? The media? You have seen the ridiculous surge in infections in the United States haven't you.? This virus has not suddenly disappeared and now that wholesale international travel is back on the cards, the possibility of a 2nd wave is much higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1874robbo Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 28 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said: Whilst it has not been mentioned officially it has been suggested this will happen due to the Championship not completing a full season. Would you happily take the money not knowing whether or not there will be promotion? Should it transpire compo is the way forward we MUST get it in writing there will be promotion, as with all the ill will floating about, you can bet they would vote no should it come to that. I personally wouldn't take the risk, would you? You can guarantee that if a vote comes about to have no promotion or relegation it’ll get a big thumbs up!! What a lovely way for them to get one over us! If their argument was/is that it’s only a 27 game league so not right to have promotion we can always say it was only 30 this season and you relegated and promoted on the strength of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull's-eye Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 8 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said: Jesus, imagine whoring yourself for those disgusting minks. Its the only way to get ahead in Scottish Football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 1 hour ago, baxterd1974 said: Agree with the first part, 8m is complete pie in the sky and if there is compensation it will be nowhere near that figure. Suapect overheads will be different for each league though. Lower policing costs, lower stewarding costs, lower salaries etc I take your other points however I was thinking in terms of all the maintenance costs and groundstaff etc. If we were to get crowds of around 15k for home games not so sure the policing/stewardings cost would be that much cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigsuperslim1874 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 9 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said: Confirmed, Reason you havent heard much of Michael Stewart on BBC. Celtic Football Club (from @CelticFC 59m Exciting matchday line-up confirmed for your Pass to Paradise! These stars will join our existing @CelticTV presentation team and will feature across the season: @chris_sutton73 @JohnHartson10 Gordon Strachan @mstewart_23 @HamiltonRory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Boof said: Doesn't sound quite so bad when you say it that way... https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cardsloans/article-1633405/Loan-repayment-calculator.html That site gives £8,000,000 borrowed over 4 years at 8% being repaid at £195,303.38 / month for overall interest charges of £1,374,562.18 and a grand total of £9,374,562.18 Pretty sure judicial interest is compound interest so it works out at over £3m interest. https://www.thecalculatorsite.com/finance/calculators/compoundinterestcalculator.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 1 hour ago, AllyjamboDerbyshire said: You are right, but would you want to risk Hearts' future on there still being promotion at the end of next season? It's not up to me or Hearts but the votes of the other 41 clubs if there is to be promotioon at the end of next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewB Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, 1874robbo said: You can guarantee that if a vote comes about to have no promotion or relegation it’ll get a big thumbs up!! What a lovely way for them to get one over us! If their argument was/is that it’s only a 27 game league so not right to have promotion we can always say it was only 30 this season and you relegated and promoted on the strength of that. So if the clubs vote to give Doncaster the power to do what he wants, they're bonkers. You'd expect the bottom (Championship) club next season to say "no relegation" but the top club will say "yes promotion" and the others will filter into one camp or other depending on where they are and whether there would be play-offs. However, any discussion about clubs deciding would be off the table as ND will decide (after checking with Celtic and maybe Rangers). Obvs, as a Hearts fan, I'm not saying member club votes always give the best results but would we rather have Doncaster and his cronies decide things - particularly after the "the SPFL will push through reconstruction regardless" chat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 29 minutes ago, Walter Bishop said: Confirmed, Reason you havent heard much of Michael Stewart on BBC. Celtic Football Club (from @CelticFC 59m Exciting matchday line-up confirmed for your Pass to Paradise! These stars will join our existing @CelticTV presentation team and will feature across the season: @chris_sutton73 @JohnHartson10 Gordon Strachan @mstewart_23 @HamiltonRory They will only have MS on this so that he can have an argument with Chris Sutton and they can take the piss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmaroon Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 10 minutes ago, 1874robbo said: You can guarantee that if a vote comes about to have no promotion or relegation it’ll get a big thumbs up!! What a lovely way for them to get one over us! If their argument was/is that it’s only a 27 game league so not right to have promotion we can always say it was only 30 this season and you relegated and promoted on the strength of that. Back to court! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmaroon Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 12 minutes ago, Heartsofgold said: You have seen the ridiculous surge in infections in the United States haven't you.? This virus has not suddenly disappeared and now that wholesale international travel is back on the cards, the possibility of a 2nd wave is much higher. Agreed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boof Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, graygo said: Pretty sure judicial interest is compound interest so it works out at over £3m interest. https://www.thecalculatorsite.com/finance/calculators/compoundinterestcalculator.php That compound interest, as I understand it, relies on none of the original sum being repaid until end of year 4 which would be braw (if we could stand it) but with some being repaid as we go the overall total decreases with each payment...I think...we need a money whizz-kid to do the sums! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_T Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Walter Bishop said: 2nd wave based on what? The media? Based on epidemiological history, the Spanish Flu first wave ended in March 1918 and the second wave began in August 1918. Edited July 13, 2020 by Martin_T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Bishop Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 23 minutes ago, Heartsofgold said: You have seen the ridiculous surge in infections in the United States haven't you.? This virus has not suddenly disappeared and now that wholesale international travel is back on the cards, the possibility of a 2nd wave is much higher. Look beyond newspaper headlines and sensationalism. Get out from behind your couch and enjoy life! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Bishop Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 5 minutes ago, Martin_T said: Based on epidemiological history, the Spanish Flu first wave ended in March 1918 and the second wave began in August 1918. Ahh, Sorry you`re one of them. "This is not the Flu" but you base your scaremongering on a flu, that happened 100 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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