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We are not alone.... Maybe.


Greedy Jambo

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11 minutes ago, Gizmo said:


People never thought Broadband was impossible. 

 

Problem you have is you discount the myriad problems, which we do understand, that make it so implausible that multiple alien craft are routinely buzzing our atmosphere.

Saying “we don’t know therefore anything is possible’ is just as ludicrous as a hard ‘not possible’, because it discounts all that we do know and supplants that with naive hope rather than evidence. 

I’d love a proper discussion on why I hold the position I do, but we won’t get it here.

 

Go for it, I'm interested to hear more

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Unknown user
17 minutes ago, Gizmo said:


People never thought Broadband was impossible. 

 

Problem you have is you discount the myriad problems, which we do understand, that make it so implausible that multiple alien craft are routinely buzzing our atmosphere.

Saying “we don’t know therefore anything is possible’ is just as ludicrous as a hard ‘not possible’, because it discounts all that we do know and supplants that with naive hope rather than evidence. 

I’d love a proper discussion on why I hold the position I do, but we won’t get it here.

 

Go for it, I'm interested to hear more.

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17 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Go for it, I'm interested to hear more


I’d expect this to be completely ignored by most, tbf.

E=mc2. 

Which means that anything approaching the speed of light would acquire infinite mass, thus there is no way for an object with mass to travel at the speed of light.

So that’s the obvious first limit that would have to be broken - faster-than-light - superluminal - travel.
Now it’s not impossible that more complete understanding of physics by a more advanced civilisation could find a way to circumvent this (worm holes or warp bubbles) but we do know enough to understand that the amounts of energy needed to create a stable worm-hole or create warp-bubbles is incredible. We can’t just throw away our current understanding as its been proven correct time and again, to the point that we use relativistic calculations to keep our GPS satellites in sync with earth bound receivers. 

Our best theoretical calculations of creating a stable warp bubble to move space around a craft is that the amount of energy and distortion created would obliterate any solar system the craft visited. 

All things considered, in my view considering the above, it’s not going to be something routinely done surely, just to buzz the ape-like inhabitants of a less developed planet surreptitiously with craft that are neither cloaked nor robust/advanced enough to not be downed by our, presumably, more primitive weapons.

But there’s more than that in terms of interstellar space. Space itself is moving apart faster than light speed (which sounds like a contradiction!) but every point in the universe is expanding away from the others. A good analogy is if you drew some dots in a grid on the surface of a balloon then inflated it.

 

That makes it even more difficult to reach places that are tantalisingly in reach of a generation ship or a light-sail. 

That OK for a start?

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28 minutes ago, Gizmo said:


I’d expect this to be completely ignored by most, tbf.

E=mc2. 

Which means that anything approaching the speed of light would acquire infinite mass, thus there is no way for an object with mass to travel at the speed of light.

So that’s the obvious first limit that would have to be broken - faster-than-light - superluminal - travel.
Now it’s not impossible that more complete understanding of physics by a more advanced civilisation could find a way to circumvent this (worm holes or warp bubbles) but we do know enough to understand that the amounts of energy needed to create a stable worm-hole or create warp-bubbles is incredible. We can’t just throw away our current understanding as its been proven correct time and again, to the point that we use relativistic calculations to keep our GPS satellites in sync with earth bound receivers. 

Our best theoretical calculations of creating a stable warp bubble to move space around a craft is that the amount of energy and distortion created would obliterate any solar system the craft visited. 

All things considered, in my view considering the above, it’s not going to be something routinely done surely, just to buzz the ape-like inhabitants of a less developed planet surreptitiously with craft that are neither cloaked nor robust/advanced enough to not be downed by our, presumably, more primitive weapons.

But there’s more than that in terms of interstellar space. Space itself is moving apart faster than light speed (which sounds like a contradiction!) but every point in the universe is expanding away from the others. A good analogy is if you drew some dots in a grid on the surface of a balloon then inflated it.

 

That makes it even more difficult to reach places that are tantalisingly in reach of a generation ship or a light-sail. 

That OK for a start?

Yeah good start. I don't know astrophysics at all, although I knew a guy with a degree in it, worked at McDonald's on London Road when it opened - not even a manager!

But understanding what E=MC² actually means is beyond me, in what context is it used?

Energy = Mass x Speed of Light ²

 

I can't just throw my mass in there and work out my energy levels so what are we actually describing?

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3 hours ago, Smithee said:

Yeah good start. I don't know astrophysics at all, although I knew a guy with a degree in it, worked at McDonald's on London Road when it opened - not even a manager!

But understanding what E=MC² actually means is beyond me, in what context is it used?

Energy = Mass x Speed of Light ²

 

I can't just throw my mass in there and work out my energy levels so what are we actually describing?

 

Without getting into the deeper ramifications, this is a short explainer: 

 

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3 hours ago, Gizmo said:

 

Without getting into the deeper ramifications, this is a short explainer: 

 

:thumbsup:

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3 hours ago, Greedy Jambo said:

Why can nothing be faster than the speed of light?

Asking for a friend. 


Because anything (with mass) travelling at the speed of light would possess infinite mass. Then no matter how much energy you add, it cannot be moved faster.

It also means that it would be possible to violate causality, allowing time-travel or weird stuff like someone dying from a gunshot wound before the bullet has been fired. It isn't believed that such paradoxes are possible. Cause and effect essentially break down. 

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1 minute ago, Greedy Jambo said:

We know NOTHING. 

 

 

 


That isn't remotely true. How can you account for our current civilization, considering we were born on a rock  - and managed to understand annd harness fundamental powers of nature like the electro-magnetic spectrum, generate electricity, contain and generate light, transcend gravity to fly in our atmosphere and eventually figure out the rocket equation (Tsiolkovsky) to escape the confines of our planet and land on another celestial body.

We've invented tools to create precision instruments, turn sand into computers, look into the human body, fix and improve our health with antibiotics, nutrion understanding, surgical techniques, anaesthetic, pain relief. 

Created mass communication technologies including a Type 1 communication system with the internet. 

To postulate "anything is possible because we know nothing" isn't far away from "we don't know, so God did it". 

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Greedy Jambo
3 minutes ago, Gizmo said:


Because anything (with mass) travelling at the speed of light would possess infinite mass. Then no matter how much energy you add, it cannot be moved faster.

It also means that it would be possible to violate causality, allowing time-travel or weird stuff like someone dying from a gunshot wound before the bullet has been fired. It isn't believed that such paradoxes are possible. Cause and effect essentially break down. 

 

Is there anything about Anti gravity in those books?

Not trying to be cheeky, genuinely interested. 

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5 minutes ago, Gizmo said:


Because anything (with mass) travelling at the speed of light would possess infinite mass. Then no matter how much energy you add, it cannot be moved faster.

It also means that it would be possible to violate causality, allowing time-travel or weird stuff like someone dying from a gunshot wound before the bullet has been fired. It isn't believed that such paradoxes are possible. Cause and effect essentially break down. 

 

I find it all fascinating but this is a good example of why I could never study the subject. It's just too mind bendingly massive for me, I can't even begin to conceptualise what's really going on when we even say the speed of light.

 

Keep talking though, it is interesting

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Just now, Smithee said:

 

I find it all fascinating but this is a good example of why I could never study the subject. It's just too mind bendingly massive for me, I can't even begin to conceptualise what's really going on when we even say the speed of light.

 

Keep talking though, it is interesting


I only have a good layman's understanding from reading folk like Ray Kurzweil, Kaku, Krauss etc and attending lectures etc. It is mind-bending, especially quantum mechanics and what it says about our reality.

That said, we could be in a simulation built by some advanced alien student for science day, and all the rules were just implemented by them to see how it would run. :D

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Greedy Jambo

I might sound like a bit of spastic here, but someone mentioned the amount of energy needed to travel at speeds we're not capable of. 

There has been reports and i've seen clips of 'ufos' taking energy from the sun, and in clouds of lightning, and even taking ridiculous amounts of water from lakes. 

 

Take from that what you will. 

 

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WorldChampions1902
7 minutes ago, Greedy Jambo said:

 

Is there anything about Anti gravity in those books?

Not trying to be cheeky, genuinely interested. 

Naughty, naughty 😉

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1 minute ago, Greedy Jambo said:

I might sound like a bit of spastic here, but someone mentioned the amount of energy needed to travel at speeds we're not capable of. 

There has been reports and i've seen clips of 'ufos' taking energy from the sun, and in clouds of lightning, and even taking ridiculous amounts of water from lakes. 

 

Take from that what you will. 

 

How do they sound?

 

Nice term.

 

Classy.

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Greedy Jambo
Just now, Morgan said:

How do they sound?

 

Nice term.

 

Classy.

 

You're not remotely interested in this subject, so beat it, take your drama elsewhere. 

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1 minute ago, Greedy Jambo said:

 

You're not remotely interested in this subject, so beat it, take your drama elsewhere. 

😢

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12 minutes ago, Gizmo said:


I only have a good layman's understanding from reading folk like Ray Kurzweil, Kaku, Krauss etc and attending lectures etc. It is mind-bending, especially quantum mechanics and what it says about our reality.

That said, we could be in a simulation built by some advanced alien student for science day, and all the rules were just implemented by them to see how it would run. :D

There's nothing I like more than informative YouTube videos, I love the tech, the JWT is an amazing feat for example. But I think my mind's too literal to get much from these guys. Shame.

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4 minutes ago, Greedy Jambo said:

 

Is there anything about Anti gravity in those books?

Not trying to be cheeky, genuinely interested. 


Michio Kaku said that science-fiction predicted anti-gravity, tractor beams and flying cars etc, but instead our breakthroughs were in different areas like lasers, space technologies, nanotechnology and computing. There's a theory that there is a graviton particle which mediates gravitational effects at the quantum level, so if we could detect an anti-graviton particle perhaps it could be possible. But it remains hypothetical.

 

1 minute ago, Greedy Jambo said:

I might sound like a bit of spastic here, but someone mentioned the amount of energy needed to travel at speeds we're not capable of. 

There has been reports and i've seen clips of 'ufos' taking energy from the sun, and in clouds of lightning, and even taking ridiculous amounts of water from lakes. 

 

Take from that what you will. 

 

 

Harvesting hydrogen from the sun by scooping the gas is possible, if difficult due to the heat. Easy to create it from water via electrolysis or adding co2 to water. So it's not a fanciful idea that craft can refuel from stars, it's how we refuel ships in the Elite games. 

The amount of energy required to create a warp bubble was calculated at 65 exojoules for something the size of Voyager-1. That's  1.5 million atom bombs of the size dropped on Hiroshima or this amount of oil: 1552498328.0787 tons. 

I'm giving the benefit of the doubt here that you are being genuine with these posts and not just trolling, btw. 
 

 

1 minute ago, Greedy Jambo said:


Crop circles, really? 

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Greedy Jambo

Our minds are dug shit.

What's the meaning of life? 

Nobody can even answer that.

 

We work and work until we die. that's about it. 

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1 minute ago, Smithee said:

There's nothing I like more than informative YouTube videos, I love the tech, the JWT is an amazing feat for example. But I think my mind's too literal to get much from these guys. Shame.


Arwin Ash on youtube is brilliant at explaining this mind-bending stuff. He's the only one who explained the wave/particle duality to the point I comprehended it fully. He also explained the observer principle much better than anyone else, filling in a bit of information that seemed to be key yet was overlooked in most explanations.

We get the first James Webb images on the 12th. 🙂

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2 minutes ago, Greedy Jambo said:

Our minds are dug shit.

What's the meaning of life? 

Nobody can even answer that.

 

We work and work until we die. that's about it. 


As Carl Sagan eloquently put it:

"We are a way for the universe to know itself". 

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Greedy Jambo
Just now, Gizmo said:


As Carl Sagan eloquently put it:

"We are a way for the universe to know itself". 

 

Not many men like him going about. 

Pretty sure Elon Musk's mum shagged an alien as well. 

Excuse my crude language. 

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8 hours ago, Greedy Jambo said:

 

 

We work and work until we die. that's about it. 

As does everything alive really.

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15 hours ago, Greedy Jambo said:

Our minds are dug shit.

What's the meaning of life? 

Nobody can even answer that.

 

 

 

It has been answered.

 

 Life has no meaning. The earth has no meaning. The universe has no meaning.  We're here because we're here. Everything exists because it does. 

 

Many people need a meaning, of course, and seek for it.  Religion satisfies that need.

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21 hours ago, Gizmo said:


Arwin Ash on youtube is brilliant at explaining this mind-bending stuff. He's the only one who explained the wave/particle duality to the point I comprehended it fully. He also explained the observer principle much better than anyone else, filling in a bit of information that seemed to be key yet was overlooked in most explanations.

We get the first James Webb images on the 12th. 🙂

 

This month?

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WorldChampions1902

@jambo_jim2001 Never heard of this scientist before. He talks too much sense, has too much of an open mind and appears to be challenging lots of topics that have an ‘established and accepted’ scientific grounding. 
 

I wish him every success, and hope his peers don’t start denigrating his clearly outstanding scientific qualifications and achievements. That seems to have been the case for so many of his predecessors.

 

I only looked at vid 1 and will check the others out when time permits. Thanks for sharing. This Skinwalker Ranch program looks well worth a look too. Or am I mistaken?

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8 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

@jambo_jim2001 Never heard of this scientist before. He talks too much sense, has too much of an open mind and appears to be challenging lots of topics that have an ‘established and accepted’ scientific grounding. 
 

I wish him every success, and hope his peers don’t start denigrating his clearly outstanding scientific qualifications and achievements. That seems to have been the case for so many of his predecessors.

 

I only looked at vid 1 and will check the others out when time permits. Thanks for sharing. This Skinwalker Ranch program looks well worth a look too. Or am I mistaken?

 

We can all believe what we like of course, but I can't help wondering what all the equally qualified scientists who don't appear on paranormal shows think.

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WorldChampions1902
Just now, Smithee said:

 

We can all believe what we like of course, but I can't help wondering what all the equally qualified scientists who don't appear on paranormal shows think.

The difference of course is that as Travis Taylor, the NASA scientist in Vid1 above explains, ALL scientists need to have an open mind -it is the ESSENCE of science. Science is about asking questions.
 

Unfortunately, far too many scientists in the recent past had/have closed minds because they deem the subject matter “fringe”. Those people do a great disservice to science and arguably contribute to delays in getting answers.

 

There are plenty examples of scientists fantastic in their specialism with an incredible track record who, once they start diversifying into UFOs/Aliens/Abductions etc, suddenly become shunned by their peers. It is shameful.

 

Hopefully times are a changing.

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9 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

The difference of course is that as Travis Taylor, the NASA scientist in Vid1 above explains, ALL scientists need to have an open mind -it is the ESSENCE of science. Science is about asking questions.
 

Unfortunately, far too many scientists in the recent past had/have closed minds because they deem the subject matter “fringe”. Those people do a great disservice to science and arguably contribute to delays in getting answers.

 

There are plenty examples of scientists fantastic in their specialism with an incredible track record who, once they start diversifying into UFOs/Aliens/Abductions etc, suddenly become shunned by their peers. It is shameful.

 

Hopefully times are a changing.

 

There's having an open mind, and there's being paid to go on paranormal shows.

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WorldChampions1902
6 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

There's having an open mind, and there's being paid to go on paranormal shows.

Like I said, I am new to this highly qualified NASA scientist who worked for the Dept of Defence and has the highest Security Clearance, as you might expect.
 

If I was a US taxpayer, I would be asking why the Pentagon has been holding meetings with him about what he has discovered/is researching (on a paranormal show) and why he has subsequently been co-opted onto the much-publicised UAP enquiry as a direct consequence of his involvement in those programmes?

 

In light of the aforementioned, it seems that the Pentagon are giving this scientist the credibility both he and this subject matter deserves. Given that we are ALL looking for answers, this surely has to be welcomed?

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5 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

Like I said, I am new to this highly qualified NASA scientist who worked for the Dept of Defence and has the highest Security Clearance, as you might expect.
 

If I was a US taxpayer, I would be asking why the Pentagon has been holding meetings with him about what he has discovered/is researching (on a paranormal show) and why he has subsequently been co-opted onto the much-publicised UAP enquiry as a direct consequence of his involvement in those programmes?

 

In light of the aforementioned, it seems that the Pentagon are giving this scientist the credibility both he and this subject matter deserves. Given that we are ALL looking for answers, this surely has to be welcomed?

 

 

If you say so, I'm comfortable with the working theory that human agencies and natural phenomena are behind it all, that we're germs on a rock, there's no purpose, and we won't be meeting aliens in our lifetime.

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WorldChampions1902
6 minutes ago, Smithee said:

If you say so, I'm comfortable with the working theory that human agencies and natural phenomena are behind it all, that we're germs on a rock, there's no purpose, and we won't be meeting aliens in our lifetime.

You may very well be correct in that assertion - but are they visiting earth?
 

I am in my 60’s and have been reading about this topic for over 50 years. The more I read and validate, the more I am convinced that aliens are here and have been for a very long time. I haven’t given up hope that I will get a definitive answer on what I believe.
 

As a footnote, many years ago, UFO sceptic Philip Klass left a message in his will to all people like myself who ‘believe’, which went something like, “You will die with little more knowledge about whether aliens are visiting us than when you first started to consider the question”.
 

I hope I prove him wrong.

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10 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

You may very well be correct in that assertion - but are they visiting earth?
 

No

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WorldChampions1902
4 minutes ago, Smithee said:

No

The question was rhetorical. I think we both understand what you meant. ☺️

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Just now, WorldChampions1902 said:

The question was rhetorical. I think we both understand what you meant. ☺️

 

Like I've said before, I have a problem with this stuff because it takes smart people's eye off the ball. Think of all those people who investigate and search and hypothesise, spend their spare time sharing thoughts and ideas. We're going to die on this planet without meeting alien life, and all that brainpower could have gone to un****ing things up.

 

I feel like humanity's all in on escaping to the stars, and given up on earth.

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WorldChampions1902
11 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Like I've said before, I have a problem with this stuff because it takes smart people's eye off the ball. Think of all those people who investigate and search and hypothesise, spend their spare time sharing thoughts and ideas. We're going to die on this planet without meeting alien life, and all that brainpower could have gone to un****ing things up.

 

I feel like humanity's all in on escaping to the stars, and given up on earth.

Forgive me if I sound like a smart arse - that is definitely not an image I wish to portray here.

 

Given what we have just discussed, why would the Pentagon want to engage with this latest NASA scientist?

 

IMHO, they want to glean as much as they can from his experiences to add to their existing knowledge, with a view to identifying and exploring unknown technologies that can be used from a defence perspective. Be under no illusions, NASA is foremost about defence. If the Pentagon have existing UFO/Alien research programmes (you bet they do!), the last thing they want is a loose cannon doing his own research for a TV company. Better to co-opt him onto their existing research programs and be able to control what he can and can’t make public under the guise of National Security, whilst at the same time being able to take advantage of his knowledge and experiences?

 

If they ignore researching so-called “wacky” scientific topics, they run the risk of another super-power gaining an edge over them. Which is why the CIA invested in researching Remote viewing, for example.


They obviously would also want to understand any potential threats to national security should, as you would believe, other ‘actors’ (Russia/China) are responsible for what this scientist is witnessing

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Jambo_jim2001
4 hours ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

@jambo_jim2001 Never heard of this scientist before. He talks too much sense, has too much of an open mind and appears to be challenging lots of topics that have an ‘established and accepted’ scientific grounding. 
 

I wish him every success, and hope his peers don’t start denigrating his clearly outstanding scientific qualifications and achievements. That seems to have been the case for so many of his predecessors.

 

I only looked at vid 1 and will check the others out when time permits. Thanks for sharing. This Skinwalker Ranch program looks well worth a look too. Or am I mistaken?

Skinwalker leaves more questions than answers,a lot of padding and drama,but we'll worth watching. If skinwalker was/is a load of tosh,why did Bigelow and his scientific team NIDS funded by the federal government spend so long there? And also why the findings have never been made public? I find the subject interesting, a hell off a lot more intelligent folk than me also have investigated this phenomenon and are perplexed as it doesn't fit with their scientific narrative 

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Jambo_jim2001
2 hours ago, Smithee said:

 

Like I've said before, I have a problem with this stuff because it takes smart people's eye off the ball. Think of all those people who investigate and search and hypothesise, spend their spare time sharing thoughts and ideas. We're going to die on this planet without meeting alien life, and all that brainpower could have gone to un****ing things up.

 

I feel like humanity's all in on escaping to the stars, and given up on earth.

Problem with any scientific breakthrough is A. Can we weaponise it? B. How much can we make off it. Prime example was Nikola Tesla who died penny less because what he wanted was the betterment of humanity through his patents and inventions.

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WorldChampions1902
8 hours ago, Jambo_jim2001 said:

Problem with any scientific breakthrough is A. Can we weaponise it? B. How much can we make off it. Prime example was Nikola Tesla who died penny less because what he wanted was the betterment of humanity through his patents and inventions.

Tesla was clearly a genius and I think revelations decades after his death help us to join some dots.
 

He was made bankrupt, died penniless and yet managed to live in two suites in one of the swankiest hotels in New York (The New Yorker), for 10 years, which happened to also be on the same floor as a number of suites rented by agencies of the American government. We also now know that at the time, the US had a number of top secret buildings in that same district, dedicated to the research and development of ‘exotic’ technologies.

 

And when he died, TESLA’s safe inside his hotel room was rapidly emptied by US security agencies and we know that large chunks of his research  ‘inventory’ remains missing as the Tesla museum in Belgrade  has been trying to have those historic documents returned to them for display.

 

Good luck with that!

 

 

Edited by WorldChampions1902
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WorldChampions1902
10 hours ago, Jambo_jim2001 said:

Skinwalker leaves more questions than answers,a lot of padding and drama,but we'll worth watching. If skinwalker was/is a load of tosh,why did Bigelow and his scientific team NIDS funded by the federal government spend so long there? And also why the findings have never been made public? I find the subject interesting, a hell off a lot more intelligent folk than me also have investigated this phenomenon and are perplexed as it doesn't fit with their scientific narrative 

Cheers. Will take a look at it.

 

I have to say, my ears pricked up when Bigelow’s name got mentioned in the early part of that first video. It just adds more intrigue. Given the colossal sums the US government threw at him and his ‘respectable’ Aerospace businesses etc, not to mention what was invested in UFO research, I find it intriguing that Bigelow has latterly decided to sell on the ranch where so much paranormal activity (including UFO’s) is purported to be occurring? Unless of course he managed to get some answers?

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Jambo_jim2001
Just now, WorldChampions1902 said:

Cheers. Will take a look at it.

 

I have to say, my ears pricked up when Bigelow’s name got mentioned in the early part of that first video. It just adds more intrigue. Given the colossal sums the US government threw at him and his ‘respectable’ Aerospace businesses etc, not to mention what was invested in UFO research, I find it intriguing that Bigelow has latterly decided to sell on the ranch where so much paranormal activity (including UFO’s) is purported to be occurring? Unless of course he managed to get some answers?

Or maybe had a hitchhiker 😳 skinwalker was known in certain circles,well before Bigelow bought it,not one place I would like to visit👻👻

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WorldChampions1902
1 minute ago, Jambo_jim2001 said:

Or maybe had a hitchhiker 😳 skinwalker was known in certain circles,well before Bigelow bought it,not one place I would like to visit👻👻

Indeed.
 

When Taylor and Knapp first mentioned “hitchhiker”, I thought WTAF?!! Then Taylor suggests that perhaps it could already be happening to him. And then, for such an outstanding scientist to even suggest (tongue in cheek), that science may not be able to provide the answers we are looking for, that is pretty controversial, to put it mildly.  It will certainly not endear him to his peers.
 

I wonder if Taylor will go the same way as Bigelow and it will all peter out with no answers provided?

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1 minute ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

And then, for such an outstanding scientist to even suggest (tongue in cheek), that science may not be able to provide the answers we are looking for, that is pretty controversial, to put it mildly.  

 

That isn't even slightly controversial.

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