Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[Don Dan]

18 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

I either heard it on Sky News as a report on some research or read it online in a newspaper again reporting on some scientific research done. Sorry I cannot (at this time) link to it but will if I can remember where it was I saw/heard it. As for your dentist analogy that's kid of stupid as they've worn these pep items for years for a host of other things and nothing to do with the Wuhan bug. 

👍

[The Real Maroonblood]

3 hours ago, Boy Daniel said:

Id love to read the source to back up your figures. 
Just as a matter of interest I was at the dentist this morning for a check up with the hygienist and the dentist. All were wearing masks, visors and other appropriate PPE, should I have told them not to bother with the PPE as it provides very little protection according to some posters on here?

You were probably right not to mention the experts on JKB in case the dentist was a poster.

[Governor Tarkin]

2 hours ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Medical doctors don't necessarily care about the lives of the elderly.

 

 

Always pictured the Doc' like uncle Harold tbh.

 

1 hour ago, doctor jambo said:

but I am a pragmatist, and "bigger picture" thinker.

Everything we do comes with a cost.

Since the NHS ground to a standstill, or "protected" as they would put it- mental health services stopped visiting people, cancer screening stopped, out patient appointments stopped, routine operations stopped,, diabetic checks stopped and so on- there is a real life cost to this- young lives.

I have long been of the belief that care homes should have been locked down and the shielding groups locked down, and the over 75's locked down.

I fear that the real life costs of this generalised cluster-panic will far outstrip the covid death totals.

NObody wants to say it, but its true- teh younger generation are being thrown to the dogs so the elderly can keep pottering around Dobbies and circling Morrisons car park

 

Thanks for the reply, Doc'. 👍

[TheOak88]

1 hour ago, Victorian said:

 

How come the highly accurate and much respected ONS surveillance system and antibody survey extrapolation does not support such a claim?

 

14% in London and 6% in most other areas is the frequent result of these surveys.    

 

 

I suppose that ONS study you mention raises another question, if accurate. 

 

At the beginning of this pandemic we were essentially told that this virus is highly deadly and highly infectious. 

 

Taking into account the higher London numbers, if we were to say at UK level only 8% of the population have had CV, that’s quite a low percentage. 

 

From what I have read, it seems that CV probably first entered the UK in mid-December 2019. So, essentially we are now 8 months into this pandemic in the UK (3 months of which we were all just doing whatever we wanted and living life as normal). 

 

If after 8 months, including 3 of which we were exercising no social distancing, only 8% of the population have had it, that suggests to me that the virus is nowhere near as infectious as we once believed. 

[Governor Tarkin]

11 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

It's pretty much what the data has been telling us for a couple of months now and at least scientists are now saying it.

 

President-elect of the international society of infectious diseases sounds like a good source to me

 

 

Or ' @Enzo Chiefo' as he is more commonly known.

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

its more than likely that vast swathes of the population of the UK have already had it and dont know as they had little/no symptoms.

I suspect the kids are all out there happily infecting each other at present with no risk to themselves at all.

The UK spikes and the US spikes  vs some other countries is probably because the UK is one of the most obese countries on the face of this earth.

The virus has killed the frail, the elderly and the fat.

Precious few others.

To prevent this we have

1- destroyed our enconomy

2- in the process of shedding potentially millions of jobs

3- done untold damage to the wellbeing of children

4- surrendered our liberty to the governments of all colours who now tell us what to wear, where we can go, who we can visit, who we can have sex with ( if not domiciled together), whose businesses are forced shut, banned music in pubs, shut sports down, telling us who we can invite to our houses, who "deserves" government support, and put many people under house arrest who if they break self isolation can be arrested and fined.

Its a hell of a price- dont you think?

Yes i agree that it has been a hell of a price to pay. We are still paying it with constant threats of another lockdown or more restrictions on our civil liberties.( ie no households to have visitors etc )   I honestly don't think many people would stand for another full lockdown. I  just cant see it happening. 

[Victorian]

9 minutes ago, TheOak88 said:

 

I suppose that ONS study you mention raises another question, if accurate. 

 

At the beginning of this pandemic we were essentially told that this virus is highly deadly and highly infectious. 

 

Taking into account the higher London numbers, if we were to say at UK level only 8% of the population have had CV, that’s quite a low percentage. 

 

From what I have read, it seems that CV probably first entered the UK in mid-December 2019. So, essentially we are now 8 months into this pandemic in the UK (3 months of which we were all just doing whatever we wanted and living life as normal). 

 

If after 8 months, including 3 of which we were exercising no social distancing, only 8% of the population have had it, that suggests to me that the virus is nowhere near as infectious as we once believed. 

 

I think the ONS surveillance is very robust work.   The antibody survey appears to show very consistent data in the range mentioned.    But maybe there are more questions arising.   Especially if there really is truth in the theory about specific strains,  which may or may not be much more infectious and less symptomatic.

 

I wonder where the scientific knowledge is regarding immune response (antibody presence) showing up from the current survey testing.   Antibodies being detected from infection of all strains?  Only some strains?  Only the strain causing covid19?   

 

The idea of a much less dangerous strain is certainly good,  but perhaps only to an extent.   If it does exist,   perhaps it already is or will become the most prevalent strain.   But it's still as important to know the ongoing prevalence of the covid19 causing strain.   The widespread relaxation that public knowledge of a less dangerous virus could cause may in turn cause a resurgence of covid,  if it's still persists.

[Weakened Offender]

6 hours ago, Ray Gin said:

I suspect that if the Government hadn't faffed about with their dicks in their hands for several weeks before taking action (BoJo actually turning up for some meetings might have helped), then a less strict Swedish-style approach may have been a plausible option. We left it far too late to take any action, by which time the cases had already rocketed to a level that was unmanageable through any action other than a full lockdown. However it is easy to say this in hindsight and by the time we were seeing the massive impact in Italy it may have already been too late.

 

 

 

 

Yup. 

 

I think whether you agree that the actions taken around mid-March were the correct ones or not, the 6 to 8 weeks of inactivity and an absurd 2 week period when an utter clown of a PM postured ludicrously in front of any available TV camera meant that full lockdown, at that time, was the only option. 

 

Boris Johnson handled the threat to the country so badly that his negligence is criminal. 

Edited August 18, 2020 by Weakened Offender

[Brighton Jambo]

24 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

Yup. 

 

I think whether you agree that the actions taken around mid-March were the correct ones or not, the 6 to 8 weeks of inactivity and an absurd 2 week period when an utter clown of a PM postured ludicrously in front of any available TV camera meant that full lockdown, at that time, was the only option. 

 

Boris Johnson handled the threat to the country so badly that his negligence is criminal. 

For once I agree with you and actually think criminally negligent is a good term.

 

I think that the delay to the lockdown decision, the decision to move the elderly into care homes and the lack of appropriate PPE should see a bunch of individuals from both the UK, Welsh Assembly and Scottish governments all facing very very serious consequences, they have blood on their hands but Boris should face more consequences than any of them.  
 

 

Edited August 18, 2020 by Brighton Jambo

[Nucky Thompson]

31 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

Yup. 

 

I think whether you agree that the actions taken around mid-March were the correct ones or not, the 6 to 8 weeks of inactivity and an absurd 2 week period when an utter clown of a PM postured ludicrously in front of any available TV camera meant that full lockdown, at that time, was the only option. 

 

Boris Johnson handled the threat to the country so badly that his negligence is criminal. 

And the boot of a first minister is still posturing ludicrously in front of TV cameras every day.

 

Nicola Sturgeon has the blood of lots of care home residents on her grubby hands, that's what's criminal

[Weakened Offender]

1 minute ago, Nucky Thompson said:

And the boot of a first minister is still posturing ludicrously in front of TV cameras every day.

 

Nicola Sturgeon has the blood of lots of care home residents on her grubby hands, that's what's criminal

 

You're not right in the head, pal. You're not all there. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

6 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

I see Ireland is introducing stricter controls. Employers told to let staff WFH, resteraunts to shut by 11:30, outdoor gathering sizes limited and over 70’s being told to avoid public transport, only to shop at set times and to avoid unnecessary social interaction amongst some other stuff.  

Yes they have lost the plot in Ireland..

[Nucky Thompson]

2 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

You're not right in the head, pal. You're not all there. 

Why? You're ranting about Johnson while letting Sturgeon off scot free.

 

Like it or not, there are lot's of people in Scotland who have lost loved ones in care homes.

 

I'm putting the blame firmly at Sturgeon's door for that and if that makes me off my head then so be it

[Weakened Offender]

8 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Why? You're ranting about Johnson while letting Sturgeon off scot free.

 

Like it or not, there are lot's of people in Scotland who have lost loved ones in care homes.

 

I'm putting the blame firmly at Sturgeon's door for that and if that makes me off my head then so be it

 

I wasn't ranting. 

[doctor jambo]

14 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Yes they have lost the plot in Ireland..

They have gone power mad.

getting that power back off them will be tricky

[Back to 2005]

Buck stops with Sturgeon for the issue with the care homes. Net seems to be closing in on her now though.

For balance Johnson is equally incompetent. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

2 minutes ago, Back to 2005 said:

Buck stops with Sturgeon for the issue with the care homes. Net seems to be closing in on her now though.

For balance Johnson is equally incompetent. 

 

Add Drakeford, Foster and possibly O'Neill to that list as well.

 

It took serious pressure to suddenly make thousands of beds available in care homes/in the community when there was none supposably available.

 

I'm not on about the elderly residents of care homes who were being treated in hospital and then moved back to their care home, I'm on about the thousands of elderly whom had been stuck in hospitals for weeks, months and in some cases years, most of them being stuck in hospital because there was apparently nowhere else for them to go, there was no space available elsewhere, and then suddenly around the middle of March, almost overnight, hey presto all these extra beds in care homes/in the community had magically appeared, as if from nowhere.

 

That takes serious political clout to do something like that.

 

Hopefully, although I do doubt it, the truth will come out in any inquiry, of who or whom made that order and who applied the pressure, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[doctor jambo]

6 minutes ago, jonesy said:

This has been my argument all along. There are folk happy with government power grabs and begging for more restrictions. Some really weird masochist tendencies among them.
 

“Lock me down, Madam Sturgeon/Mr Boris, ooh yeah...”. 

It’s all gone a bit North Korea , but even there you were allowed alto get your hair cut- as long as it was in the style of the supreme leader.

Mind you at school mine was a bit “sturgeon shed”

[TheOak88]

Interesting article in the Guardian today suggesting that depression amongst UK adults has doubled since Lockdown. 

 

As more evidence starts appearing as to the consequences of Lockdown, it will be interesting to see where Johnson and Sturgeon draw the line and realise the health implications of Lockdown are actually more serious than CV itself. 

[Frank]

52 minutes ago, jonesy said:

This has been my argument all along. There are folk happy with government power grabs and begging for more restrictions. Some really weird masochist tendencies among them.
 

“Lock me down, Madam Sturgeon/Mr Boris, ooh yeah...”. 

This 😂😂😂

[Ray Gin]

Government power grabs.  

 

The government are just loving people hiding their identities behind masks right enough. This helps them how exactly?

[Back to 2005]

9 minutes ago, TheOak88 said:

Interesting article in the Guardian today suggesting that depression amongst UK adults has doubled since Lockdown. 

 

As more evidence starts appearing as to the consequences of Lockdown, it will be interesting to see where Johnson and Sturgeon draw the line and realise the health implications of Lockdown are actually more serious than CV itself. 

That would admit being wrong! From a personal point of view I'm back in the office after 4 months WFH. So good to have some normality and human interaction back. The new normal as they want us to call it is anything but normal.

[Back to 2005]

5 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

Government power grabs.  

 

The government are just loving people hiding their identities behind masks right enough. This helps them how exactly?

It's a power thing as the masks are a sign of compliance. 

[Harry Potter]

3 hours ago, TheOak88 said:

 

Yeah I understand it would have been on advice from medical advisors. 

 

But medical professionals within the NHS have drawn up contingency plans in the past (as recently as 2016) as to what our options are/how to handle a pandemic if it hit the country. And lockdown does not appear to have been listed as an option/plan. 

 

It feels to me a bit like China went with a lockdown (as they would due to being a pretty authoritative totalitarian state); then Italy followed suit due to the problems they had, which then just seemed to set off a domino effect in Western Europe that lockdown is the way to deal with this (without really thinking through the consequences). 

 

Do you think the length of lockdown we have had should be in dispute, out of interest?

I think they got it right.

[Ray Gin]

 

Just now, Back to 2005 said:

It's a power thing as the masks are a sign of compliance. 

 

Are they indeed  

 

This aids the government in no way whatsoever other than suppressing the virus.

 

[Ray Gin]

Just now, jonesy said:

"Ooh, punish me, Nicky. I've been a bad boy..."

 

"How bad, you maggot?"

 

"I took two hours of exercise seven miles from my home."

 

*WHIP CRACK*

 

You've lost the plot.

 

[doctor jambo]

Just now, jonesy said:

"Ooh, punish me, Nicky. I've been a bad boy..."

 

"How bad, you maggot?"

 

"I took two hours of exercise seven miles from my home."

 

*WHIP CRACK*

I am however delighted to see the return of the illegal rave.

I was concerned that this generation were bland.

Happy that the spirit lives on🤩

[Back to 2005]

8 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

 

Are they indeed  

 

This aids the government in no way whatsoever other than suppressing the virus.

 

Two major outbreaks of covid cases in food factories in last week. Why are they not wearing masks?.....

[Back to 2005]

6 minutes ago, jonesy said:

"Ooh, punish me, Nicky. I've been a bad boy..."

 

"How bad, you maggot?"

 

"I took two hours of exercise seven miles from my home."

 

*WHIP CRACK*

😀 a horrific image!!

[Ray Gin]

1 minute ago, Back to 2005 said:

Two major outbreaks of covid cases in food factories in last week. Why are they not wearing masks?.....

 

They should be if they can't socially distance properly. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

15 minutes ago, Back to 2005 said:

It's a power thing as the masks are a sign of compliance. 

 

But seemingly you're a twit if you don't wear your muzzle. 

[Victorian]

Congratulations and admiration are due to the people of a higher consciousness who have unmasked (wordplay intended) Nicola Sturgeon as a deep cover Illuminatus who is embarked in a dastardly scheme to create an Orwellian,  dystopian,  new world order of total servility.    

 

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

9 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Congratulations and admiration are due to the people of a higher consciousness who have unmasked (wordplay intended) Nicola Sturgeon as a deep cover Illuminatus who is embarked in a dastardly scheme to create an Orwellian,  dystopian,  new world order of total servility.    

 

 

 

No clever enough to be Illuminati, no clever enough by far. 

[graygo]

2 hours ago, Nucky Thompson said:

And the boot of a first minister is still posturing ludicrously in front of TV cameras every day.

 

Nicola Sturgeon has the blood of lots of care home residents on her grubby hands, that's what's criminal

 

You seem to have missed the fact that it dropped from every day to 5 days a week a long time ago and will drop to 3 days a week from next week.

[graygo]

2 hours ago, Nucky Thompson said:

 

Dp

Edited August 18, 2020 by graygo

[graygo]

2 hours ago, Nucky Thompson said:

 

Edited August 18, 2020 by graygo
Tp

[Back to 2005]

8 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

You seem to have missed the fact that it dropped from every day to 5 days a week a long time ago and will drop to 3 days a week from next week.

Did I imagine she previously reduced it to 3 days a week only to go back to 5 days when she was missing her daily power trip? 

[Enzo Chiefo]

3 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Or ' @Enzo Chiefo' as he is more commonly known.

🤣

[DETTY29]

5 minutes ago, Back to 2005 said:

Did I imagine she previously reduced it to 3 days a week only to go back to 5 days when she was missing her daily power trip? 

Yes you did.

Edited August 18, 2020 by DETTY29

[Victorian]

15 minutes ago, jonesy said:

 

Thank god you've seen the light, man. Join the resistance!

 

Seriously though, I think NS was a reasonably-minded woman who came into the FM job with the intention of making Scotland a better place. The problem is that, like many politicians, having authority and being expected to wield it by the mob-like ramblings of the print and broadcast media, has meant that she was only too willing to implement 'sweeping', 'unprecedented' measures to 'control' and 'eradicate' this 'evil virus'. In short, power corrupts.

 

Naaaah.. pretty sure she's just trying to execute her responsibilities as the democratically elected head of government in order to deal with the multi-faceted,  public health,  economic and social justice crisis of an epidemic and wider pandemic.

 

Doing the day job,  as many an opposition party leader endlessly used to cry about.   I bet the likes of Mooth and Leonard would love to be in the hotseat right now.

Edited August 18, 2020 by Victorian

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 hours ago, jonesy said:

This has been my argument all along. There are folk happy with government power grabs and begging for more restrictions. Some really weird masochist tendencies among them.
 

“Lock me down, Madam Sturgeon/Mr Boris, ooh yeah...”. 

Very true , the amount on social media shouting lock down schools pubs etc is startling . Very concerning . 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

8 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Naaaah.. pretty sure she's just trying to execute her responsibilities as the democratically elected head of government in order to deal with the multi-faceted,  public health,  economic and social justice crisis of an epidemic and wider pandemic.

 

Doing the day job,  as many an opposition party leader endlessly used to cry about.   I bet the likes of Mooth and Leonard would love to be in the hotseat right now.

 

Naw, they'd crap it, as Sturgeon must have done at times.

 

I don't envy anybody who is thrust into this impossible situation, damned whatever decision they take and damned whatever decision they don't take.

 

Give me plain simple joe fecking bloggs anyday of the week, life is much less stressful and simplier that way.

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

They have gone power mad.

getting that power back off them will be tricky

Yes following events closely regarding Ireland . There is a growing resistance to their punitive lockdown though. The death rates / infections just don’t justify it . 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 minute ago, JamesM48 said:

Very true , the amount on social media shouting lock down schools pubs etc is startling . Very concerning . 

 

The secret is, don't be on or listen to social media.

[JudyJudyJudy]

30 minutes ago, Back to 2005 said:

Did I imagine she previously reduced it to 3 days a week only to go back to 5 days when she was missing her daily power trip? 

No you

didnt I remember that too . 

[graygo]

37 minutes ago, Back to 2005 said:

Did I imagine she previously reduced it to 3 days a week only to go back to 5 days when she was missing her daily power trip? 

 

Yes.

[graygo]

10 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

No you

didnt I remember that too . 

 

Really? When was that?

 

Do you mean the 2 week "holiday" that was always a temporary thing?

 

All explained up front.

 

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18589505.nicola-sturgeons-daily-covid-19-media-briefings-cut-three-days-week/

Edited August 18, 2020 by graygo

[Victorian]

11 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Naw, they'd crap it, as Sturgeon must have done at times.

 

I don't envy anybody who is thrust into this impossible situation, damned whatever decision they take and damned whatever decision they don't take.

 

Give me plain simple joe fecking bloggs anyday of the week, life is much less stressful and simplier that way.

 

I agree.   Virtually every head of government must have had a pure head in the hands realisation that their workload was about to become something they really did not relish.

 

Those who has already outsourced most of the workload to special advisers were less affected of course.

[JudyJudyJudy]

11 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Really? When was that?

 

Do you mean the 2 week "holiday" that was always a temporary thing?

 

All explained up front.

 

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18589505.nicola-sturgeons-daily-covid-19-media-briefings-cut-three-days-week/

I didn’t think it was a temporary arrangement 

[doctor jambo]

41 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Yes following events closely regarding Ireland . There is a growing resistance to their punitive lockdown though. The death rates / infections just don’t justify it . 

Quite, we have surrendered our freedom with barely a whimper .

just wait until mandatory vaccination